StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal

This page is for discussion of general community issues. To start a new thread click here. Resolved threads are gradually archived; see the archives box below.

Key Issues:
 * License
 * Articles to delete
 * Others to be added...

Rename the license?
I don't like "StrategyWiki Public License", for several reasons. First, "Public" is unnecessary and might make people think there's some connection with the GNU GPL; also including our name is a mistake. As echelon said, "Imagine if all wikis used a single license and it made copying possible between all wikis. Wouldn't that be awesome?" Yes it would, but I can't imagine other sites would be particularly keen on using a license that so openly belongs to another site. Dropping the Public and removing our name from it are primary goals if we want anyone but us to ever use this. GarrettTalk 04:39, 2 July 2006 (PDT)


 * So you'd have it called "License" then? :-P I agree with you here, and I think now is the time to change the name if ever, before it gets too complex. --DrBob (Talk) 04:52, 2 July 2006 (PDT)


 * Guys, check out the suggestions in User:Echelon/Open Media! Leave comments on the talk page there.  ech elon  23:53, 5 July 2006 (PDT)

Image upload warning
I'm going through categorising all the images, and it's a pain. I have a horrible feeling that people are going to continue to upload uncategorised images, so why not put some Javascript on the image upload form which checks for a category link, and pops up a message box chiding the user if the output of  is true. --DrBob (Talk) 06:43, 2 July 2006 (PDT)
 * I suggest looking into the uncategorized images page sporewiki has set up and have that installed. But if this code gets put it, If you could explain how it's done, then that'd be appreciated echelon, thanks :). -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 16:42, 2 July 2006 (PDT)
 * I think we should do both. :-P The message on form submission to stop more uncategorised images being uploaded, and the uncategorised images page to help deal with the ones which have already been uploaded. Looks quite simple to install the uncategorised images page, and thanks must go to MediaWiki (and SporeWiki) for it. :-D --DrBob (Talk) 23:00, 2 July 2006 (PDT)

Open Media License
I wanted to involve everyone in writing and commenting on the "Open Media License" that I am drawing up. (I think it may be a better alternative to "StrategyWiki Public License".) You can see it here. If you wouldn't mind taking a look over it, making notes of your thoughts and ideas for improvement, and even working on it, that would be excellent. I want to slim it down quite a bit so it's a small license. Once we have a more polished and refined version, I want to show it off to Debian-legal and ask for their assistance in making this thing real. We'll of course want it to conform to all of their standards, as I generally agree with Debian-legal on most licensing issues.  ech elon  01:32, 22 July 2006 (CDT)

Display bug with IE
I've been noticing this and felt I should bring it up. It seems the All game Nav template is causing it too. Anyway, if you look at a page in IE that has that template, it seems it is too wide and it causes the text under it to be sort of "cut off" by the table. Any text following the headers (the 2 equal signs on either side) is okay. I'm surprised this hasn't been addressed. --Sivak 14:18, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * "Cut off" by which table? I've just looked at Counter-Strike: Source in IE7 beta 2 and the All Game Nav is too wide, but I'm getting no other problems with it. Could you perhaps link to a screenshot (or upload one as long as you promise to have it deleted afterwards :-P )? --DrBob (Talk) 14:29, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I checked using IE6 on the EarthBound main page and I think he's talking about this: click here to see image-- Duke  Ruckley  14:54, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Yeah, same here as dukeruckley. It seems the left edge of the main content has negative padding or something. But, it only happens on pages that have the All Game Nav on them, as far as I checked. I looked at an ealier revision of EarthBound without the All Game Nav, and it looked fine.--blendmaster 22:09, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Ah. Are you sure this only happens on pages using All Game Nav? I'll look into it later, but it's probably a symptom of one of IE's box model problems. :-( --DrBob (Talk) 15:01, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Why can't everyone just get Firefox? :p --Antaios 14:59, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * If only. However, we do have to support everyone. :-( --DrBob (Talk) 15:01, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I put a screenshot of my own. It seems maybe the images on the left which make up the menu are overlapping somehow.  Check the area I put a red box over.  It gets "uncut" after a short way down.  click here to see image  --Sivak 09:42, 27 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I think you're probably right. I checked the same pages uses Monobook and there is no problem there, so it might be the skin itself.-- Duke  Ruckley  09:46, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
 * That's partly it (the top is a JPEG while the rest is a GIF) but that still doesn't explain IE drawing it too far to the left. GarrettTalk 22:52, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Cutscene transcripts
Some of the pages (e.g., Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas/Missions/Big Smoke) have verbatim transcripts of the cutscenes included. Besides being formatted like a screenplay (way too much space for a web page IMO), this seems like a copyvio to me. Should it go? Sympleko 07:12, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Ya, it should go. It is completely unnecessary and is not useful to the user of the website anyway.  It doesn't give any hints or tips on how to play the game at all.  Plus, it just doesn't look very good.-- Duke  Ruckley  07:55, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * I agree on all counts. Can somebody delete Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas/Missions/In the beginning/Cutscene then?  It's all transcript.  I already orphaned the page. Sympleko 11:59, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Done :) -- Duke Ruckley  12:18, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * You'll also want to see what links to the cutscene templates, do what's necessary with those pages, and then delete the templates themselves. (Danged dialup. :- --DrBob (Talk) 13:40, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Done, there was just one page that linked to the two templates in use, and I deleted it and the templates.-- Duke Ruckley  13:49, 26 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks for finishing what I started. Seems like it was only two pages. Sympleko 08:24, 28 July 2006 (CDT)

MapleStory Transwiki
I just got back from my vacation and I'm now going to try and get the MapleStory book transwikied. There are a few concerns I have before going ahead with this. I've put together a list of all the pages and images that are used by the book (though its out of date now). There are a lot of images in this (pictures of the enemies) and they are all very badly named, potentially causing collisions. Will it be possible to transwiki all the pictures automatically and rename/categorize them at the same time? Also, the MapleStory/Monsters page is quite large (90+ megs in the database including history I think, page is 83k) and is updated fairly often. Will this cause problems for the rest of strategywiki due to bandwidth issues? (It's the most edited pages on wikibooks). -- Prod 12:52, 13 August 2006 (CDT)


 * With reference to the images, I can't think of an easy way of transwikiing them off the top of my head, and if you want to rename and categorise them at the same time, it's going to have to be done manually. You can take your time over it. :-P It wouldn't be preferable to have to categorise them all later, due to the fact that we can't make a list of uncategorised images, and would thus lose them. The Monsters page is a monster. Whatever you do, it will have to be split up, and the history might have to go, but I'm not too knowledgeable in such matters. (Talk to Garrett, methinks.) I don't think we'd encounter any bandwidth issues, but it should be split up anyway, to make it at least somewhat sane to read. --DrBob (Talk) 13:03, 13 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Yeah the history can't be imported (maximum is around 2 MB) so the history for that will have to be pasted onto the talk page. The rest shouldn't be much of a problem. Images could be transwikied automatically by Kernigh's bot, but since they have to be renamed I don't think it can handle them (unless it has a batch rename feature). I'll look into transwikiing the text portion sometime soon. GarrettTalk 21:06, 13 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, there 1500 revisions, so that will be some pasting :P. I'll need to go through the pages again since some pages have changed and new ones have popped up.  I'll put a note on Wikibooks Import List when its ready (hopefully soon).--Prod 07:26, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Right, sounds good. GarrettTalk 21:51, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
 * There are a few pages where the info was cut and pasted to another page. Those pages are now redirects.  Should they be transwikied as well, or just leave them where there are (where they will probably be deleted)? -- Prod 19:33, 17 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I can't see much point in transwikiing redirects, unless they're used really frequently. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 01:18, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Hmm, guess I didn't say the part I had wanted to say (oops). I meant to say that some of those redirects have a fair bit of history behind them since the original content was cut and pasted elsewhere, and a redirect added manually.  I'll see if I can contact Kernigh about the images. -- Prod 22:11, 19 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Kernigh writes: Okay, I used my bot to download the 397 images (372 PNG, 15 JPEG, 10 GIF) from Wikibooks. They are now in a folder on my computer, along with a "files.txt" containing the image descriptions. (They are in maplestory.zip if anyone wants to look at them.) I believe that I can easily remove the extra  == Summary == ,  == Licensing == , and   tags and put everything in Category:MapleStory images. I want prod to send me some lines looking like this:


 * mv 0023423.png Whatever_the_new_name_is.png


 * I should be able to use these to rename the files (and replace the filenames in "files.txt") before I tell User:File Upload Bot (Kernigh) to upload them to StrategyWiki.


 * Also, 397 images is a lot, so should the bot receive a "bot" flag? --Kernigh 23:27, 20 August 2006 (CDT)
 * W00t, thanks :D. I'll try to upload the file somwhere around here in the next 24 hours, though I can't make any promises as I'd like to make a good naming scheme so I dont have to re-upload the pictures later, probably something like 'MapleStory Monster MonsterName.xxx' for the monsters.  -- Prod 00:01, 21 August 2006 (CDT)


 * It might be a bit late for this, but I'd just use initials for the repetitive parts of filenames, such as "MS" instead of "MapleStory". It'll save a lot of typing. --DrBob (Talk) 03:26, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

Images are being transwikid as we speak (Thank Kernigh!). I think the import list is ready for transwikiing (so many strange words >.>). If there is anything you need from me, leave a message on my talk page. (This is so exciting ^_^). -- Prod 19:53, 25 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Could you please go through all the images in the MapleStory images category once they're uploaded, and categorise them accordingly? You can find information in the policy. --DrBob (Talk) 03:26, 26 August 2006 (CDT)
 * Currently, they've all been moved into three categories, Category:MapleStory/Monsters, Category:MapleStory/Skills, Category:MapleStory/Items. Can I just add the Monster category as a subcategory of Category:Sprites and Category:Characters or do I have to put those on each and every page? Skill would go under Sprites, and Item would go under Items and Sprites. If you want them individually, do you know of a program to automatically edit a bunch of pages.  -- Prod 10:09, 26 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Sorry to give you a load of work to do, but those categories won't do. The images'll have to go into the normal categories, but I can't think of a program off the top of my head which will allow such easy editing of multiple pages (my bot's currently out of action). Try rooting around on Wikipedia. --DrBob (Talk) 12:55, 26 August 2006 (CDT)

Everything is ready for transwikiing at Wikibooks Import List/MapleStory. When can we get started? -- Prod 22:10, 3 September 2006 (CDT)
 * I was thinking of waiting until the automated dumps are updated (this happens roughly every 20 days), as any changes between that date and the importing would have to be carried over manually. This also means the diffs between those two points would be missing. What do you think? GarrettTalk 04:10, 4 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Sounds good to me. -- Prod 07:50, 4 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Looks like the dumper bot broke. I guess it'll be another 2 or 3 weeks before we can get moved over :(. Do you think this would be a good time to start moving pages around (ie. split the monster page up into 7 or 8 separate pages), or should I wait till after the move? -- Prod 20:01, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

Too much like Wikipedia?
I'm wondering if we're taking too much of a Wikipedia route with these infoboxes and writeups. They have nothing to do with the actual guide content, which is what people are here for. As described above, they take up valuable screen space that could be better used by an always-visible TOC.

Personally, I'd like main pages to have a brief blurb with a Wikipedia sidebox, directly followed by a permanently visible TOC. Infoboxes look nice and all, but really don't help those wanting to get straight to guide content. Those who want encyclopedic info or metadata about a game can visit its Wikipedia entry. GarrettTalk 00:13, 19 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Erm...that's basically what we've already got? --DrBob (Talk) 10:40, 25 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I happen to agree with you, but for an entirely different reason. It's not that having this information at StrategyWiki is redundant--it's not--and it can be useful at times when distinguishing between versions comes in to play. The problem I have with the design of our main guide pages is that they are too confusing. For the newcomer, it may be difficult to tell that StrategyWiki is a place for game guides, when it appears at the superficial level that we are a repository for game info.


 * Our main pages should serve as an introduction to their respective guides, and that varies from game to game as all games have different elements and considerations. In supplement to the walkthrough itself, some guides may have full bestiaries and item lists, others may have time trial strategies for those who participate in speed runs. Our main pages should make it easy to find this key information quickly (though I don't think we should clutter main pages with a full table of contents--we have the top navigation and table of contents pages for that purpose). What do you guys think about this? Also, if you happen to agree with Garrett and I, we should perhaps collaborate on a sample introduction page.  ech elon  13:46, 19 August 2006 (CDT)


 * I can't see what you're getting at here Echelon. You haven't actually posted any suggestions, and I can't see any real improvements which could be made to our current accepted front page style. --DrBob (Talk) 10:40, 25 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Well lets be straightforward here, if you think there is a page that is "wrong" by design, redesign it at a test page, then elaborate on the changes so that we can examine if those changes in general are beneficial. No need to collaborate right now, if you think pages are wrong, either be bold and edit the pages, or make test pages that illustrate why your idea would be better.  Too much talk slows stuff down :), make a demo, show it, then we'll find out what works best. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 10:56, 27 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Yeah, you're both right. I am working on something, but I don't think I'll be done with it for a while. For now we should just continue working with what works and I'll present you with an alternate idea when I have something more concrete.  ech  elon  11:22, 27 August 2006 (CDT)

Transwiki Fighting Game Moves Book?
Hi all. I've been watching the transwiki process of Maple Story. I have a project that I started earlier this year on wikibooks (that has since been moved to wikiknowledge) detailing all of the different moves for different 2D fighters. I pretty much completed Capcom and started working on SNK before I found strategywiki. Anyway, with blendmaster about to upload arcade buttons, I was thinking it would be a good time to consider transwiki-ing the book to here and making it much better. I have two concerns however. The easy one is: I don't really know how to transwiki something other than manually copying and pasting, and I don't know if there's a more formal process or something. The harder one is, given the layout that I used, will I be able to bring it over in the same format. That is, under Capcom I have each game, and also each character. Each game lists all of the moves for the different characters in that game, and each character lists all of the moves for that character in every game he/she appears in. It's easier if you check it out for yourselves and let me know your thoughts. As always, thanks! Procyon 20:21, 28 August 2006 (CDT) http://www.wikiknowledge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Fighting_Game_Moves


 * I don't know much about the transwiki process or its formalities, but I'll definitely support your desire to transwiki this book. I'd like to see it on StrategyWiki, and I think the potential for its growth is better here on SW as the book is relevant here.  ech elon  15:42, 2 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I'd say that would be good, but I think it should be transwikiid to a set of pages in a non-main namespace, as the main namespace is reserved for game guides, not more general guides such as this. Echelon, what thinks ye about this? --DrBob (Talk) 16:31, 2 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I don't have any problem simply copy/pasting the contents of the guide over to here. It's a bit of work, but it's mindless work, so there shouldn't be any problems.  DrBob, I take it that you would prefer to see a "wiki/fighting moves guide/capcom/sf2" and "wiki/fighting moves guide/capcom/ryu" as opposed to a "wiki/capcom/sf2"  and a "wiki/capcom/ryu"?  The more than I think about it, the more your approach makes sense to me, and this way we could still have main guide pages for each individual game that link in to page(s) of the fighting moves guide where ever appropriate.  My only other question would be: is there a better name for this than "fighting moves guide"?  Thanks!  Procyon 10:14, 5 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Thinking about it some more, it might make more sense to split it up, and put all the fighting moves for each game in a sub-page of the game's guide itself (e.g. "SF2/Fighting moves"). I don't know how much work that would be, though. --DrBob (Talk) 10:31, 5 September 2006 (CDT)


 * I'm cool with that, but what I'm not sure is where to put the "Ryu" page. For example, there will be a Street Fighter II page, a Street Fighter III page, and a Street Fighter Alpha page.  These pages will obviously contain all the moves for all of the characters in each of those games.  However, Ryu is a character in all three games, and one of the things that people commented about the original guide, was the cross referenced character pages, such as the page for Ryu which contained all of the moves for each of the games he belongs to, (so for the above example, SF2, SF3, and SFA.)  It helped illustrate how each character changed and evolved across each revision.  So the problem is, where does a "Ryu" page belong?  I was thinking "Capcom/Ryu" but that would be a new rule where a company's characters could be subdirectoried off the company's category.  I could make a "Capcom Characters" category that belongs to "Capcom" and then make "Ryu" a member of the "Capcom Characters" category, but that still begs the question: where does he live? Procyon 01:45, 6 September 2006 (CDT)


 * You could either have the SF3/Ryu page embedding the SF2/Ryu page, or have some text explaining that the moves are the same as in the previous game, with a link to the other page. --DrBob (Talk) 10:51, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

Have a look at Street Fighter II/Ryu to see how an entry might potentially look. I'm not satisfied with the ratio of the glyphs yet. The plus and the buttons may need to be scaled down (or the joystick motions scaled up.) Procyon 01:45, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

Another proposal: MAME guide?
Hello. I may be reaching the point where I'm biting off more than I can chew, but I wanted to throw another proposal out there. I'm not married to the idea of doing it, but I would be happy to add a MAME guide to the site if there was enough support for it. It obviously would not be a game strategy guide, but more of a how-to guide (how to download it, how to set it up, how to start it, and how to use it.) That sort of thing. I am aware that this does not precisely fit the motif for this site, and I would not be disappointed at all if it was felt that such a guide does not belong here. On the off chance that people would welcome it though, I would be happy to start it, so I thought I would seek opinions. Ironically, someone started a BYOAC (Build Your Own Arcade Controls) wiki site over here, but it's a slightly different topic. Thanks! Procyon 15:05, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Doesn't MAME already have a wiki, or is that DOSBox? And doesn't EasyEmu already cover this sufficiently? I'm not opposed to the idea, but sufficient resources are already out there, just not necessarily in a wiki format. Still, it's an interesting idea. GarrettTalk 16:00, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
 * It's funny, I thought it would be interesting to do the research before I asked, so I simply Googled "MAME wiki," and while I came up with a handfull of wiki entries on what MAME is, there were no guides. But you raise an interesting point in that there are in fact a few guides floating around out there, in various states of completeness and thoroughness.  However, something else occurred to me while reading your response.  As neat as I may think the idea is, I doubt many people will find themselves scratching their heads about MAME and think to themselves, "Where should I look for answers?  I know, I'll check StrategyWiki!"
 * o_O; Unless the page was featured so prominantly on Google during a search that you couldn't help discovering it, I imagine it would not serve a tremendous purpose on this site. Still... I could be swayed ^_^ Procyon 16:16, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
 * If there were enough guides for games that worked on MAME, then it would probably become quite useful. I don't know exactly how google pagerank works, but with the number of links the MAME page would get, I'd assume it would get rated pretty well.  I'd suggest putting together a few guides first, then the MAME page. -- Prod 17:39, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Lol, you obviously haven't looked at my user page ;) (although I would personally admit to a Famicom bias, it just so happens that many of its games were also early arcade games.) Procyon 18:06, 6 September 2006 (CDT)


 * If you want to do it, Procyon, then that settles the issue in my mind! My reasoning is that if we have someone willing do make a certain guide about certain games (or game systems), no matter how obscure they may be, all this does is expand the material that SW covers. In effect, it accomplishes our goals of covering even more games. I don't think we should stifle this. We're a strategy guide for all of videogaming. If you'll do it, let's have a MAME guide! :)  ech elon  23:19, 6 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Well, that's all I needed to hear. I'll start on it.  Really what I think I'll do is create an Emulator category (not that I expect it to expand significantly,) and add a MAME sub-category to that.  Then any game that can be played in MAME can be categorized under it.  Then I'll link the guide to from the category page.  Thanks Echelon! Procyon 10:13, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

Now that roughly 90% of the guide is done, I've put out "feeler" invitations on message boards with heavy MAME traffic in order to drum up interest and support, not only for the guide, but also for StrategyWiki itself. If nothing else, we may get a new batch of dedicated editors to the site as a result. Procyon 15:28, 11 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Before you do that, sort out your CamelCase! :-P --DrBob (Talk) 15:32, 11 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Oh... OK... I thought that I had. Could you point out of an example of what you mean?  In some cases, it's intentional because it reflects the actual name given to some programs, but I tried not to abuse it anywhere else.  Give me a for-instance on my talk page.  Thanks!  Procyon 15:58, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

Collaboration of the Month (September)
Collaboration of the Month/2006-09 It's been one week. For now, I've copied last month's collaboration there since its better than nothing. I read some of the earlier discussions about what collaborations should be. My opinion is that giving people too big a job just makes people avoid it. Right now Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas seems to be a very popular game for faq's (*ahem*). So I would suggest that if we put that as the main collaboration, there would be a lot of people who may know a few things to add in. Also, collaborations should be prepared ahead of time, rather than after the month has begun. -- Prod 18:02, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
 * sounds fine to me. --blendmaster 20:37, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

Collaboration of the Month (October)
Well then, let's get this started shall we? I think the collaboration for November should be to finalize main page layout, and table of contents formatting. It's not quite as easy for someone just finding the site, but I think it's better for StrategyWiki as a whole.. --blendmaster 20:37, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Heh, I was thinking about your suggestion, and my ideas have been going in circles :P. These are things that I feel need to be done by the already establish community, rather than by new users who happened to find this site.  Heres a small list of things that I think need to be done:
 * Community "to-do" list (perhaps on the community portal, like [gw.gamewikis.org GuildWiki])
 * Main Page layout, due to registration requirement, account creation should be highly visible
 * Collaboration of the month voting page (like wikipedia)
 * Actually, this stuff probably belongs on Collaboration of the Month -- Prod 21:26, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Those are all great ideas, especially a new layout. Also, isn't it time for an archive? There's 37 sub-sections on this page alone; it usually stops at like 20. --Antaios 22:00, 7 September 2006 (CDT)