User talk:Procyon/2009

Re: Merge Contra?
I did wonder about that, but a lot of the information I found claimed "the NES version is significantly different" and said it had much longer stages. Based on what you've said merging them makes sense, and once you get up to 1988 you can sort out any elements that need clarifying. GarrettTalk 22:11, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Meeting
Hey Proc, is there a meeting this week?-- Duke Ruckley Talk 15:27, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for letting know! If we have time, I'd like to bring up a main page/community portal overhaul.  There's a thread on the forums, but there hasn't been much discussion about it.-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 15:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Warrior II images
Are the images on this page screenshots, or art from comics or what? They're currently categorized as, which is where they look like they belong, but maybe they're. Just checking. - naj zere 21:38, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

New command list sugestion
Though when I first saw the SFIV move list's, I thought they where too cool not to try them out. But currently I'm leaning towards the folowing design. 🇨🇴 🇨🇴 🇨🇴 🇨🇴 Blue Phoenix 18:37, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

GIMP
Your Script-Fu wouldn't by any chance include making 2D sprites into pretty, gradient-shaded 3D images, would it? - najzere T 21:46, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I have an update, but I thought I'd post it here, in case you're not watching the topic on my talk page. I have located grain merge, and I don't know what it's doing in technical terms, but it looks much better than just doing a half-opaque gradient on the image. I just found it last night, so I haven't added it to the script yet, but I wanted to get your input on it anyway. I tried creating a new layer and doing a normal gradient, then setting the layer to grain merge and half opacity, and I think it looks the same as doing the layer as grain merge and the gradient at half opacity. I think I saw grain merge in the gradient options too, in which case we can (hopefully) forgo the extra layer all together and just apply the gradient directly to the top of the image. What I am wondering is if you've nailed down the specific opacity to use. I tried at 100%, 50% and 30%, and I think the sweet spot is somewhere between 30-50%.


 * I took a closer look at the sprite icons we're trying to match and the guy is using 6 pixels of dark layer, 2 of the light layer and 5 pixels of border. Using those numbers, my results have been looking much better. Should we enforce this ratio instead of picking all aspects of the widths independently? If the ratios are hard-coded, then we can easily scale the offsets for the sides to match any size image. I guess I'm just used to idiot-proofing everything I code, even when it's something like this where you and I know exactly how to use the inputs. Maybe when we're done we can post it to the script repository though? Okay, that's it, just wanted your advice on the opacity and the ratios. I made a chart of side-by-sides for seeing how the different opacities look, in case you want to see that too. Later, - najzere T 16:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Could I please get some movelist advice
Hey, I was wondering if you could take a look at this move list and could possibly give me some advice on how to polish it up (I'll take whatever you suggest and update the other characters to match). This is my first time trying to work with move lists and know you are more familiar with fighting games than I am. I guessed on how to use the template after studying how it was used in a few different major fighting series. There is a good chance I'm misunderstanding where the move and button sections divide. --Zaiqukaj 14:31, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The example you sent me is much more complicated (and relatively different) then the other few pages I was using to figure it out. This is perfect, thank you! --Zaiqukaj 16:42, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link/Hidden Palace - missing point-bag
I just wanted to note that you neglected to mention a point-bag that appears in the south-eastern portion of the wooded area in your map key. If you want to know where it's specifically located, go to the GameFAQs Zelda II page, and under "Maps and Charts" check "East Overworld Map" by DEngel. I verified the accuracy of this, myself. 70.153.122.245 15:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ... and the point-bag is still missing from the map. If you don't feel like getting around to it, I can edit the map for your convenience. 70.153.107.11 17:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and update the image, thanks. -- 04:22, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Procyon already fixed it. — najzere T 05:45, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Apple II box scans
Hey, I don't know if you want this one 'cause it's kind of beat up, but there you go. - najzere T 17:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Goonies pic
Hey, I noticed there's some crap in the bottom left of this image. - najzere T 18:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you kindly.  Pro  cyon  18:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Street Fighter EX bios
Hey Procyon, where did you get the info for the SFEX bios? (BackLash 22:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC))

yeah np, I just wanted to be sure, thanks man (BackLash 16:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC))

Vandal
User:76.89.178.149 had spammed several pages.(Noryb989 03:40, 7 June 2009 (UTC))

Green Beret navigation
Hey, I'm confused on the navigation used on the guide, so I wanted to check in before making any more changes. I haven't read through the text on the pages (lazy), so maybe that's my problem, but sometimes the footer nav is pointing to a page that doesn't point back in its footer nav. I changed the Bridge at airshed footer to follow the ToC, but I see now that the Warehouse is pointing back to the Harbor, which doesn't point forward to the Warehouse. Anyway, I'll just leave it to you, but I wanted to at least let you know about the Bridge at airshed page, in case you need to change it back. - najzere T 15:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Good catch Naj, my fault. Thanks for pointing it out.   Pro  cyon  17:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Ahaha
Those Chester Field dungeon maps look like they were drawn on a napkin with a crayon. I just realized I don't think I have the japanese regional language pack installed on my computer because the characters at http://www.geocities.jp/chester_field1987/ look like "¡Ö¥Á¥§¥¹¥¿¡¼¥Õ¥£¡¼¥ë¥É¡¡°Å¹õ¿À¤Ø¤ÎÄ©Àï¡×¤ò¹¶Î¬¤·¤¿¤¤¿Í¤Ø" (directly copied from the first line) to me.

I could use the help, I didn't really mean to start the guide lol. I stumbled upon this game earlier today and I made the main game page at completion stage 1 instead of zero, so I felt inclined to fill it in a little. -- 01:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Auto-confirmed users
From what i have observed, Users become auto-confirmed users after about 1 week. However, is it safe to post that infomation at the auto-confirmed users page, as vandals might just create accounts, leave them for a week and return. FlyXwing 13:24, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Unused images
Rather than open talk pages all over the site, I thought I'd just drop these here for your convenience. These are the unused images that I couldn't figure out how to place myself. — najzere T 17:22, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

[GALLERY REMOVED]
 * Nice looking out Naj, thanks so much. I think I have placed all of these appropriately.  Let me know if you find anymore that you aren't sure what to do with.   Pro  cyon  21:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, I've been chipping away at the unused images and came across those. The only other ones from you is this one, whose page hasn't been created yet, and a couple Rygar maps which I'm sure you intend to use fairly soon. Thanks for helping me with those. — najzere T 21:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Rygar suggestion
Don't forget boss health! -- 03:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well in that case, you're stuck with not upgrading Tone at all and attempting to figure out the maximum number of strikes, and then figuring out how much tone affects it (i.e. fight the boss with minimum tone of 30 or whatever, then double the tone and see how many strikes it takes). Otherwise, reverse engineering it is the only way to go. I've never tried hex editing an emulated game; I wonder if anyone's had success with that (for finding out formulae). -- 08:23, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but the reasonable thing to do would describe how many hits it would take to kill the boss if you followed the guide accurately. Whatcha think? -- 23:17, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I do think it would be a very nice addition to the guide. However, at this point, I've moved on, so I'm not too interested in taking up the task myself.  Hopefully, either you're willing to do it, or someone else will contribute it.  It's not available in any existing GF FAQ is it?  I'll check.  Pro  cyon  02:08, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I'm not asking you to go back and do more work. I was just archiving my talk page as I re-thought the issue, and I felt that it would be nice to share my idea. Here's to the future, cheers! -- 04:48, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Rygar has an impressive guide over at RPGClassics. The author says the defense values were determined based in how many hits it takes to kill them with a base Tone value of 30 (starting value?) and that it was "incredibly tedious". New User (talk) 11:13, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean, this list? -- 18:57, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Heyz
No I mean that with my wiki, I'm making some links TO strategywiki. My wiki is more of a massive in depth map database. I'm adding external links to this site for party quest information and various different stuff. --Jezza 00:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Hokuto no Ken naming
Hi, should Hokuto no Ken (Famicom) not have the system in parentheses? I ask because usually we only disambiguate the later titles, and reserve the standalone name for the first game. If it's clearer having "Hokuto no Ken" and "Fist of the North Star" redirecting to the category, that's cool too. :) — najzere T 22:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, okay I see that not only was the Sega game first, but you already thought of all this. :)~ — najzere T 22:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Japanese held sound romanization standard
I prefer using double vowels rather than pronunciation combos (ou instead of oo) or accent marks, and I think that should be the standard (which should be noted somewhere like Guide/Languages). When we are copying translations from other sources, we should change them to our standard. It doesn't really matter which we choose, but double vowels are the most simple and easy to search for if it's in the title of a game. Alternative spellings can always be redirects.

Double vowels are more indicative of the length of sound, and follows the classic written standard for the kana where pronunciation is strict. Pronunciation combos are nice if you are new to the language, but since Japanese is phonetic, it doesn't make sense to try and adapt it to a non-phonetic standard such as English (the ou accommodates English accents). Accent marks are a nice way to graphically display the double sound, as it mimics the Japanese representation (a two kana combo can be represented in English with two characters): again, this follows an adaptive standard.
 * Reasoning

Thoughts? -- 01:46, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Ironically, although I've never given the matter very much thought, your very reasoning has occurred to me on several occasions as well. I agree with you completely on it, I just never thought it was noteworthy.  You've proven to me that it is, so the question becomes: What do we need to fix?   Pro  cyon  02:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I like the "Do as it is written" standards we've come up with so far. The reason for noting a preference like this is to eliminate disputes and create consistency across the wiki. Again, this standard doesn't apply to romanized titles and defined names (i.e. Hadouken). After it is documented (I think this could be part of a larger page as additional language issues arise), enforcement is the only change (when copying words like "Zetsushō", they should be changed to "Zetsushoo"). The only difficulty I can predict in doing this is 1) only people with an understanding of the words can accurately make the change and 2) romanization of Kanji can arise in ambiguous spellings (i.e. "奥義" written as "Shuugyou", where the "you" can be mistaken as "yoo" or "yuu", and the length of the vowel is also not indicated). In most of these difficult cases, no changes would be made to the romanization due to lack of expertise. -- 02:23, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I follow you, but what I meant was, how do we identify where this new standard is currently broken across the site?  Pro  cyon  02:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well you could go crazy and categorize every page that has Japanese written on it with Category:Japanese, but otherwise it would just be a standard. Like, we use sentence case for headers instead of camel case. You change it when you see it, on a case by case basis. -- 02:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Read-only SW
Hi Procyon,

We're having trouble saving changes to SW. I've already tried to contact a few other admins. Anything you can do? --69.196.167.174 15:49, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, you were evidently able to save changes to the Sandbox and to this page, so I'm not quite certain what problem you're referring to. It would help if you a) mentioned which page you were having trouble saving, and b) registered an account.  Let me know.  68.48.68.54 15:56, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If I log in, I can't even attempt to edit. The problem in particular is that pages aren't being saved (for example, User_talk:Procyon doesn't contain this conversation.) --69.196.167.174 16:03, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Loads of vandalising
Thank you, Procyon, for coming to SW at the right moment! :D. I thought I was dead then. There was this sudden serge of vandalising... anyway, I am supposed to be blocking the IPs, right? 13:42, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

An Impossible Patrol
For some reason I can't patrol the first edit of this page. Usually if I'm patrolling an edit on a new page I click on the time in Recent Changes but it doesn't come up with a patrolled thing this time. 13:36, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * A new page will not have a diff link, however if you click on the time and go to the page, at the bottom left will be a "Mark this page as patrolled" link. -- 16:14, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I click on that anyway. That's what I just said. But there wasn't anything coming up. Oh well, someone else has patrolled it now anyways :P. 16:32, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like someone patrolled the edit between the time Recent Changes loaded for you and when you clicked the link to patrol it. There's probably no mystery there. — najzere T 16:38, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually I went back to RC two or three times and it still wasn't patrolled... 16:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That must mean your internets are broken xD. -- 16:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Super Mario Bros. 2
Hi, what's your opinion on moving "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)" to "Super Mario Bros. 2" with a game disambig to "Super Mario Bros. 2 (US)" and deleting the Super Mario Bros. 2 disambiguation page? I know it probably looks like a lot of work, but it seems to fit in with how we do like-titled games. Let me know, as I don't have a problem with doing the actual moving of the pages if you're okay with it. — najzere T 07:35, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * We tossed this issue around a couple of times. This is one of those issues where our two naming considerations are roughly at equal weight, namely:
 * What game was given a particular name first (the Japanese version),
 * and what name does our majority English readers know a game best by (the US version).
 * In the end, there's no clear cut winner. We could give the US version the Japanese name, Super Mario USA, although not many readers would be aware of that.  In the end, I defer to your judgement.  Pro  cyon  16:10, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Could we consider the Japanese game to not have been titled "Super Mario Bros. 2", as that's just the translation? :P For some reason I find the intended search result to be more important than the date convention and would be happier with the US version not receiving parenthetical notation. (Actually, I didn't even realize the "most common name" criterion could be used outside of what to name a single article). Since this isn't the simple standardization task I thought it was, this decision should probably be up to more people than just me. — najzere T 16:39, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not a straightforward call. Argument #2 has been cited in a couple of naming convention arguments, and it is in line with your statement "the intended search result [is] more important."  Which seems to suggest that you actually prefer the article names to remain the way that they are.  Is that correct?  The date convention applies to games which have the same name in the same region, e.g. two basketball games named Basketball in the US.  In that case, the first game named Basketball gets it and everything else is disambiguated.  The rationale for that is easy: If we insisted that the most recent game got the undisambiguated title, then you'd constantly have to revise the names of the articles belonging to the second most recent game.  Pro  cyon  16:54, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, to be clear I prefer the US game be titled "Super Mario Bros. 2" and the Japanese version stick with "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)". I don't really care so much about that, I'm mainly interested in getting rid of this disambiguation page. But that requires that one of the games be moved to the disambiguation location, so a choice has to be made. I'm fine with whichever one gets the "main" title, as there are valid points to either one. Maybe I should inquire in the staff lounge, since it doesn't seem like either one of us really wants to make that decision. — najzere T 17:07, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, now I understand the focus of your concern. Ironically, I could live with the disambiguation page, but I'm not against getting rid of it either.  I could see setting up similar pages for highly popular games that would fall under that condition.  The only games that I could think of that would be deserving of such status are Final Fantasy II and Final Fantasy III... I can't really think of any others, but I would imagine there are at least two or three others that I'm forgetting about.  But I agree, a staff lounge topic might be the best way to settle the discussion.  Pro  cyon  17:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Atari controls
If I wanted to make a template for the Atari buttons, what all would I need? Is and http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5945/ataributton.png enough? Are things like "select", "reset" and "difficulty" able to be shown as images? Are they necessary? Wondering what you thought of this. — najzere T 07:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * All you need is a naming standard for the images, then copy and modify an existing template like gc. -- 16:05, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, yes I've set up controls templates before… what I'm asking is, what other buttons need to be in it? — najzere T 16:09, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi guys. Yeah, as far as 2600 games go, Select and Reset would be "nice to have"s, as difficulty switches would be "nice" as well, but not entirely necessary.  But seeing as how we go to the trouble of presenting every conceivable control input for the Wii, it might not be such a bad idea.  Heck, if you're going to go that far, you could even include the colow/b&w switch.  Very very few games make use of that as a toggle for something other than what it was intended, but there are a few out there.  I think Starmaster let you use that switch to go back and forth between the 1st-person view and the map. So in order of importance, I would say:


 * Joystick 1 (or Paddles 1 & 2)
 * Fire button 1 (or Paddle buttons 1 & 2)
 * Joystick 2 (or Paddles 3 & 4)
 * Fire button 2 (or Paddle buttons 3 & 4)
 * Reset
 * Select
 * Difficulty Switch 1 - B or A
 * Difficulty Switch 2 - B or A (sometimes used to control a different aspect of difficulty for single player games)
 * Color/B&W Switch (as mentioned above, may be used for something other than controller color output)
 * It's best to base those switches on the heavy-sixer model and not the four switch darth vader unit that put the difficulty switches on the back of the console. And then we're not even getting into the discussion of alternate controllers like Paddles, driving controller, and keypad controllers...  Pro  cyon  18:51, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Does 1-player/2-player need to be indicated on the button images or will the same image be used with in-guide text letting the reader know which player is using it? I'm just wondering if it's different from how the PlayStation for instance can have two controllers, but we just have one controller image instead of 1-player X button, 2-player X button, etc. And does that apply to the difficulty switch too? — najzere T 19:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It may be needed. For example, in the Indiana Jones game, you need two joysticks.  The 1P joystick moves Indy and 1P button lashes his whip.  The 2P joystick moves the inventory icon and the 2P button utilizes an icon.  That is just one example.  So it might be helpful to "bake" into the icon.  Pro  cyon  21:16, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I switched the 1 and 2 joysticks for L and R. I also uploaded a simple a/b switch with no label, basically because my test page, Flag Capture, didn't specify the right or left difficulty, just a or b. In the same vein, I uploaded non-labeled color and b/w images too. I haven't looked through all the Atari guides, so I wanted to know if it's worth keeping all those iterations, or if the there's any redundancy. Also, if you have any other changes or new stuff let me know. I couldn't find the exact font used on the console, so I could work more on that if you think it's necessary. [whoops, pre-save edit] I'm going to need to replace the 1 and 2 buttons with L and R too, huh? D'oh! Can the paddles and paddle buttons stay as numbers? — najzere T 06:51, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking at the Indy 500 guide, I see it uses the driving controller, which I believe is slightly different than the paddles. I think the driving controller can turn 360° while the paddles have limited turning radius? Is that true? Is that the only difference? Is the button the same? If it's true, would there be any need for a 360° turn image, or would the standard left and right turn images suffice? Thanks, — najzere T 08:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, you gotta love Atari. All the differences you mentioned between the paddles and the driving controller are correct.  The only other difference is that while the paddle controllers come two to as plug, the driving controllers are singular.  But the big thing is, Indy 500, for whatever unfortunate reason, is the only game that ever made use of the driving controller.  Since it would be silly to go through a whole lot of effort for that one single game, and since I think the images that you added to the guide work particularly well, I don't see any reason to expend more effort on this controller.  Nice job as usual.  Pro  cyon  15:35, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Categorized redirects
Could you give me your opinion on the subject you brought up on my talk page? Thanks, -- 02:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Facebook group
Has anyone suggested setting up a facebook group for StrategyWiki? It would make more people aware, which may help develop the articles. - (Trevman)
 * What sort of benefit would we see? Free advertising? I say start up a group if you are willing to invest your time into updating it, perhaps it will be beneficial. The issue is again advertising: will you only show it to your friends? How will you corner the interest of strangers? Will your friends and these people spread the name to even more people? I think 1) a lot of the people here prefer to remain as professional, semi-anonymous contacts, 2) the facebook group's topic doesn't have a lot to be discussed, as the Wiki is open to contributions and discussion all over the place (it's redundant), 3) the majority of people you know will not be interested, and 4) it may be more work than its worth. What do you think? -- 00:38, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, this is what I think. Prod started it ages ago.  Pro  cyon  01:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Just joined it!-- Duke Ruckley Talk 12:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Lol, awesome. It will be neat putting a face to a name (or a face to a nick, and a nick to a name).  I just put a wall post on there.  Pro  cyon  13:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Ack! Main Page...
I have a few of Skizzerz's scripts and I accidentally clicked on one them... I exited out without realizing that I didn't have to confirm :( Sorry!-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 13:54, 21 October 2009 (UTC) Edit:  I think I should ban myself for a few minutes :)-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 13:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Pinball games
Hey, quick question: do we host pinball guides? I know we have a category, but they're all video pinball games. And yet from the scope page, I'm not sure if a traditional pinball game would fall under the arcade category ("All games on this site must be computer, arcade, or video games"). A guide like Baby Pac-Man further blurs the line. So I'm not sure if I haven't seen any actual pinball guides because we don't allow them, or we just don't have (m)any. Which is it? — najzere T 21:21, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Naj. Yeah,  is intended only for computer simluted pinball games, not for real ones.  Baby Pac-Man is an extremely odd exception, but there were only three pinball/video game hyrbids ever made, and I can't even recall the name of the other two.  I definitely wanted to make a guide for Baby Pac-Man, but I would never, for example, include a guide on Mr. & Mrs. Pac-Man which is strictly a pinball game.  So other than Baby Pac-Man, no actual pinball tables should be written about unless they are included in some kind of software compilation.   Pro  cyon  02:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "other two being Caveman and Granny & the Gators" from wp:Baby Pac-Man. -- 07:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. That's what I thought, but I found a bunch of stuff for a pinball game and wanted to make sure. — najzere T 08:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Reply to: Your tone in the staff lounge
Fair enough, but there was no reason for it to get removed. Which I'm assuming Prod did with the edit that was named "moderation". If people can't speak their mind on that page, a note should be made. RobJ1981 03:25, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Test your might
Hey, I've been trying to get us (StrategyWiki.org) on the Hi-Score board over at arcadeshop.de, with limited success. My highest score is 33, which is about halfway to break onto the current score list. Hopefully you'll have a minute to whoop this game's ass and get us added to the community list. :P — najzere T 21:03, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Managed to get 50 on my first try... not high enough to get us onto the scoreboard yet. I'll give it another try later.   Pro  cyon  03:52, 14 November 2009 (UTC)