StrategyWiki:Staff lounge/2015/April

Wii U\3DS\Wii virtual console and Nintendo eshop question
I have a quick question on Wii U\3DS\Wii virtual console games, they are playable on Wii U\3DS\Wii. I just think this is more organized and during a Nintendo Direct Nintendo even stated that original games will be playable on the Wii\3DS\Wii U console's no virtual console has been realased. And shouldn't Nintendo eShop be used on the newer games etc Hyrule Warriors \Mario Kart 8 and Wii U\3DS Virtual Console be used on virtual titles Etc Ice Climbers\Super Mario Bros.. This seems a lot more organized than before all these edits. I just wanted to see if I'm the only one or not that thinks before I start fixing Wii U\3DS games. -- RodKimble (talk) 17:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * There isn't a catch-all here, and you have to be specific. Are you talking about distributors, release dates, or systems here (since we are referring to the infobox).
 * Distributors: all Wii games (Wii Ware and Wii VC) are purchased through the Wii Shop Channel. There is no other name for the distribution service so I chose that top-level, umbrella term. For the Nintendo DS and Wii U, all of their digital downloads come from the Nintendo eShop, so we list that.
 * Release dates: release dates are straight forward: was it a virtual console game (if so, put Wii U VC), or an actual release (digital or physical, then put Wii U)?
 * Systems: also straight forward. The system should match the release date system. If the game was released on virtual console, the system should also list the virtual console. This avoids having to categorize the page under the actual system's category. We want this so that the virtual console category and the physical category have two separate lists of games. -- 18:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The only improvement I can think of right now is to maybe make a category for Wii Shop Channel games, since we consider it a distributor. In case anyone is wondering why 'Wii Shop Channel' for the name, that is the actual name of the software/app you click on in the Wii to get to the shop where you buy/download games. These games have several categories; the big ones are Virtual Console (for retro games), and WiiWare (specifically made for the Wii). We can't use the Wii category, nor the Wii Virtual Console category because their scopes are different than this distributor. We could call it something odd like 'Nintendo's Wii distribution service' but I would like to stick with something official, and 'Wii Shop Channel' is unique. -- 18:21, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Note that Wikipedia doesn't have a perfect system yet, either. They have wp:Category:Virtual Console games and wp:Category:Virtual Console games for Wii U, but no Wii-specific category or 3DS-specific category like we have. So I think we are doing better than them so far. -- 18:29, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Issue: I see some problems with Category:PlayStation Network. It's assumed that all four consoles (PS3, PS4, PSP, and Vita) can play any game listed in the PlayStation Network category, but we may want a distributor category for each console. E.g. Category:PlayStation Network (PS3) (this naming scheme may not be want we want, but the example should be clear). The reason this is an issue: each console may at some point stop being supported. The list of available games, then, may be different. We will have to wait until someone finds an example where a game is not supported on all four. -- 18:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Wow, thought flood NMH. I'm not sure how to handle the distribution aspect, it's clearly a confusing topic, and I don't think it's particularly useful to our readers.  Presumably more players are inspecting a page for a game they already own, and thus are not concerned with how to find it.  I'm less concerned about people using our site as a database for distribution channels.  But as far as categorization is concerned, this is a very straightforward technical distinction: Virtual Console games should be categorized under a system's Virtual Console category, not under the parent system category.  This is an important distinction because Virtual Console games are emulated on a system, and not programmed for that system.  These games were not rewritten from the ground up to take advantage of the system's specs and abilities.  There is no Wii or Wii U version of, say, Kid Icarus.  There is a Virtual Console entity emulating the NES version that you can play on the Wii or Wii U.  Therefore, it is not a Wii or Wii U title.  I'm not sure how to make it any clearer.   Pro  cyon  19:55, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's another way to think about it. If something is in the  category, then why does it need to be in the  category?  It's redundant.  There's absolutely no need for a game to be in both categories.  Anyone can observe that a title in the Wii U VC category is available for play on the Wii U without the need for that same title to appear in the Wii U category.  What's the point of listing it twice and confusing the issue?  Pro  cyon  20:53, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The Wii Virtual console is perfect nothing wrong with that one. I'm going to look into the 3DS/Wii U a little more but if you look at the Ice Climbers NES console version compared to the Wii/3DS/Wii U Console's the play exactly the same have the same story line except the controls. Its not very confusing if you list them on both categories and talk about there re-realase on that console. Look at Donkey Kong Country 1-3 about SNES and GBA versions there there both on there and GBA didn't have a virtual console.


 * The case of DKC (and similar re-releases like the Super Mario Advance series) is different, as the games were remade from the ground up for the GBA; in the case of Virtual Console games such as Ice Climber, they play and look the same because they're simply ROMs of the original games, bundled in a self-contained emulator. There are no changes to the original games, except a rare few instances of bug fixes. That's the difference that we're trying to explain to you. I agree with Procyon that including both categories would be redundant. -- 22:02, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * From what Rod is saying it sounds like ("the play exactly the same... except the controls") he is trying to categorize the game based on what controllers it is played with. 3DS virtual console games can only be played with the 3DS controller so no brainer there. The Wii and Wii U have different controllers, but to us, it's all played on the same system. Rod, if there is a specific peripheral controller that you think is worthy of its own category, like Category:NES Zapper, then please let us know and we can think about making a new category for game that use that peripheral equipment. -- 23:34, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm going to try to expand on the technical differences on RK's page. I think policy wise, the admins agree.   Pro  cyon  23:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah I'm with you - separate categories for non-redundant lists (which makes the categories usable as game lists, particularly for Guide completion). -- 01:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

What's the policy for games like Kirby's Adventure? It was released on virtual console and as part of Kirby's Dream Collection: Special Edition. In the second case it (or some of its compatriots) had extra content added, so it does not appear to be emulated. Should this type of game get categorized under Wii VC and Wii? Or should it let the Compilation take care of that category? -Flufftailer (talk) 13:48, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The compilation should always be a separate release and take care of its own categories. -- Prod (talk) 17:33, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying if everyone on this staff lounge is willing to let Procyon ban me from this website it's not looking good for everyone on here as a staff on this wiki and a bunch of NES and SNES have a Game Boy Advance on them as well like Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, Ice Climber, Breath of Fire II and Super Mario Bros. so what are we going to do about this big change that's happening. -- RodKimble (talk) 17:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

What's with Procyon saying he's going to banned me from this website I wasn't 100% sure about the change what should and shouldn't be on the Wii U Category, I'm still going to put virtual console games on the Wii U/3DS/Wii categories we need a vote on this if that's the case but I think virtual console games should go under the Wii U/3DS/Wii Categories. -- RodKimble (talk) 21:14, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Games should be categorized under the most specific applicable category. If it's running on the virtual console on the Wii U, it should be in the Wii U Virtual Console category only. It's a subcategory of Wii U anyway, so people can find the games.  -- Prod (talk) 21:41, 12 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Than It's also running on the Wii U console as well how else are the controls difference on the Wii U compared to the original console and my family is agreeing with me they should be on the Wii U category as well as the Wii U VC category. -- RodKimble (talk) 01:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * RK, I've tried numerous times to explain the difference to you between a native game for a system and emulated games. It appears as though no matter how many attempts I make, you fail to understand the admittedly subtle differences between them.  When it comes to video games and the distinctions between them, I trust the staff of this site.  They do understand the differences as I have outlined them to you, and they agree that it is sufficient to put Virtual Console games in the Virtual Console categories and nothing else.  I don't know how else to explain it to you, perhaps someone else can do a better job helping you understand, but I've tried every way I can think of.  Perhaps you can have a member of your family read the explanation that I provided on your talk page, and they can help you understand?   Pro  cyon  02:02, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Why can't it be like Donkey Kong Country 1-3 they've been rereleased on the Wii/3DS and Wii U console's that would make more sense. -- RodKimble (talk) 04:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I've noticed a bunch of games from the NES and SNES have also and Game Boy Advance like Donkey Kong Country, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Breath of Fire II, Kid Icarus, Ice Climber, The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario World, Super Mario Bros., Zelda II: The Adventure of Link and Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest. Looks like we have to get rid of the Game Boy Advance off of those pages as well so why can't some virtual console games be on two pages again like the NES, SNES and Game Boy Advance
 * All of those games are correctly categorized for the Game Boy Advance. All of the DKC games are categorized correctly as well.  Please do not change them.  Pro  cyon  13:42, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't check all of them, but DKC, Link to the Past, and BoF 3 were all SNES games that had a new release created for GBA, it wasn't emulated at all. There was a cartridge with updated code created specially for the GBA so that it played natively.  This is different from the VC stuff, since they just all run on a software emulator within the Wii U. In other words, they're properly categorized. -- Prod (talk) 14:50, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying if everyone on this staff lounge is willing to let Procyon ban me from this website it's not looking good for everyone on here as a staff on this wiki and a bunch of NES and SNES have a Game Boy Advance on them as well like Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, Ice Climber, Breath of Fire II and Super Mario Bros. so what are we going to do about this big change that's happening. -- RodKimble (talk) 17:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The categories on all of those games are correct. Please do not change them.  This matter has taken up enough of everyone's time.  I'm sorry if you don't like it, but our position is not going to change.  Find something else to work on.   Pro  cyon  18:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Well everyone should change there mind because if there's two games on the same categories like you said it's confusing about two of the same games on two categories they should be on one and if I get banned for putting Wii U VC titles on the Wii U Category than its going to look bad for a member like you Procyon and if you do ban me I'm going to try and try until this website is shut down if that's how your going to act. -- RodKimble (talk) 18:21, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't take threats lightly. Cool off and come back tomorrow. -- Prod (talk) 19:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to let NotMyHandle so you don't get in trouble I talked to the creater of this website and he told me to put whatever I wanted belongs on the Wii U/3DS/Wii categories and he wants Super Mario Bros. 2 a featured article since someone took it off the list. -- RodKimble (talk) 19:35, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Haven't contributed in years - I forget how
Hello all,

I was wanting to start writing the walkthrough for World in Conflict. It appears there is no Walkthrough page set up yet.

Can someone help get it going? Once I see the code for the first few Chapters, hopefully I can become a bit more independent again.

Here is a basic outline that I hope to fill in for the first three chapters, with subheadings underneath.

Also, it appears I need to insert "hard returns." Can someone tell me how to do that real quick?

Thanks in advance,

Mission 1: Invasion!

Rescue the Infantry Secure the Supply Depot Recon the Route to the Kingdome Clear the Route to the Kingdome Clear the LZ at the Kingdome Set up a Perimeter at the Kingdome Evacuate Remaining Guardsmen Clear the Underpass

Mission 2: Reunion

Dig in at the Freeway Entrance Rescue the Civilian Evacuees Save the Levinson Family Hold the Bridgehead Defend the Southeast Bridgehead Evacuate the Hospital Assist Bannon and Charlie Company

Mission 3: Battle for Pine Valley

Secure the Gas Station/Eliminate the Soviet Sniper Clear the Way into Pine Valley/Clear the Strongholds ASAP Secure the TV Station/Eliminate the Soviet Forward Observer Defend the Supermarket/Help Captain Bannon With Repairs Retake the Southeastern Approach Hold the Southeastern Approach/Destroy the Enemy Mortars Defend the Town Square/Aid the Artillery Break the Soviet Offensive


 * A quick glance - you probably want to use headers, which allows identifying which part of the page or objective you're looking at. It's done by using the  == Header ==  markup.  For things like hard returns, it's usually better to split paragraphs instead by having a blank line between them.  StrategyWiki-specific help can be found on Guide, and the wikimarkup is basically the same as Wikipedia. --Sigma 7 (talk) 02:36, 5 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Good to see you back, Karl. I'm sorry we had a conflict of interest in the past. I am glad to see you wanting to add more here now. Please sign your edits on talk pages by putting in four tildes like: ~ (when you save the page, it will be converted into your name and a timestamp, like at the end of this message after the two dashes by my name). -- 16:42, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Wii download games on Wii U
I noticed among some recent edits games like Punch-Out!! (Wii), which are Wii games re-released for download on Wii U, but they're identical to the originals with the exception of being able to be controlled by the Gamepad. Currently we have these categorised as Wii and Wii U games, which would seem to go against what we do with Virtual Console games (these aren't labelled as VC games, but otherwise it's the same idea). Should we put these in another category ("Wii download version (Wii U)" seems to be the official title, as an example), or keep them in Wii U? -- 00:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It's an unfortunate situation, and I don't know that I have the absolute right solution to this. Prod had a similar question as you.  My thinking was, first and foremost, like you pointed out, these are not VC games.  Secondly, the Wii U is hardware backward compatible with the Wii.  With those two thoughts in mind, if a game such as Wii Punch-Out!! is being offered for download on the Wii U through the Nintendo e-shop, then maybe they should be labelled as Wii U also since you can only play those games which are downloaded in that manner through the Wii U.  It's a flimsy argument though.  The problem is that there is no parallel category to the Wii U VC for those titles, and it seems silly to make another category like the one you suggested... then we're really splitting hairs.  You can start to make arguments like about about the Sega Genesis games offered through Steam... it gets messy quickly.  Categorizing only those downloadable Wii games as Wii U titles seemed to be a compromise, but I don't love it.  What does everyone else think?   Pro  cyon  01:57, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Can regular Wii disks be played through the Wii U? If so there's no distinction required.  Being available for download is just a distribution channel, not a system it runs on, so it doesn't need the Wii U categorization. -- Prod (talk) 01:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I thought the same thing. Wii disks are playable on Wii U so as long as that's understood, there's no need to label Wii games as Wii U as well. Still, if something is released as a downloadable title, maybe it'd be good to be specific and label it as an eShop title, with the release date given for its re-release. Ramza66 (talk) 01:17, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm good with making the policy that downloadable Wii games do not get the Wii U category. However, given the history of the site over the past week or so, it's clear that this distinction may... confuse some people.  Hopefully they will be in the minority.   Pro  cyon  01:55, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I just was writing about this on my talk page to Procyon. I now think that we should put them all in the same console category. It boils down to this: why can't Punch-Out!! (Wii) be in both the Wii category and the Wii U category? It can be played on both consoles legitimately. Isn't that is what the console category is for (games that are played on that console)? Here's the one thing I agree with: if the game has a (e.g. Wii) disc that is backwards compatible (e.g. with Wii U), then we do not categorize in Wii U. But if the game can be purchased/downloaded to the other console (e.g. Wii U) through a legitimate (e.g. Nintendo eShop) distribution channel, then that game is now part of that newer console, too. It's the same way MS-DOS games get ported to Steam and Origin, but then we add the Windows category because the game only runs on Windows using a particular distribution service.


 * The complexity of this issue has been because we are arguing over how to categorize based on the release media - e.g. printed format in a traditional DVD box versus digital download versus digital download w/ a marketing label on it (e.g. virtual console versus 3D Classics versus wiiware, etc.). I do not mind having sub-categories for these lists of grouped/marketed games. But now I do not think that they should have system categories. E.g. Wii Virtual Console and Wii U Virtual Console are great lists of games, but are they really _systems_? Does it matter that it is an emulator or sub-process of a console's operating system? I don't think so. It's not novel. Console hacking has proven that. It's not separate from the hardware, which is what we group systems by. -- 23:14, 22 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: here is a use case for us all: TwinBee has re-releases on Wii VC, Wii U VC, 3D Classics (downloaded to 3DS via Nintendo eShop but no considered a 3DS VC game), and XBLA. In addition, it has TWO Wii U VC releases - you can download the NES version or the MSX version on the Wii U via eShop. -- 00:30, 23 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Food for thought: so the two situations I see are 1) the current setup (e.g. Wii U vs VC) and 2) my proposal of changing VC to a 'series' so pages can have Wii U + VC. Now, neither setup really matters. What matters is how to solve this question: "What games are only on the Wii U and what games are remakes released on the Wii U"? In the current setup, we have clear categorization where the lists are separate. In the second situation, the Wii U cat fills up to 100% of all games available on that console, and the series cats help identify particular types of games. In #1, it is Wii U + series = total games. With #2 it is Wii U - series = normal games on Wii U. Thus, I think method two is sort of 'backwards' and more work to find the games you are looking for. -- 05:35, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Pikmin 3
I am new to this site but was told it was one of the best. Unfortunately I couldn't find a walkthrough for the game Pikmin3. Why does it advertise the game then have nothing about it? I was disappointed.
 * Responded on your talk page. Please don't forget to sign your posts by typing ~ .   Pro  cyon  02:42, 26 April 2015 (UTC)