Talk:Super Smash Bros. Melee

Welcome to the talk page for Super Smash Brothers Melee.  Wikibooks chat The following originated from wikibooks:Talk:Super Smash Bros. Melee (now merged here). Not all applies to the current state of the guide.

Improvements
JC needs to be improved, along with Team Fox --Kiraki 14:04, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

You forgot a move
Homerowing

Fixed Up
Hey, look. I organized this page and added a bunch more content. Yay! - Joshua368 02:29, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Added movelists section.
I added a movelists section, and the Samus movelist is now almost complete. I highly encourage anyone out there to add more, but please use the template used in the Samus list. --HMP22 21:53, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Stage Info
Stage Info section is red - I plan to change that soon enough. Should the standard stages be put together, and the secret ones in a subpage, or should they all have their own subpages? --Gakon5
 * The secret stages need their own subpage, but each stage doesn't need it's own subpage.

A very important ommission formt he movelists is the 'running a' move. How could you all forget it?!

Merging info
Given that there is info on the techniques page, movelists page, and individual character's page, I'm going to work on putting all the info in one place and making it so there's only one place to put any additional info. All the character-specific stuff is going to be merged into the movelist info, for one. Nifboy 03:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Spoilers?
Also, what is considered a spoiler for SSBM and why do we care? If someone comes in looking for in-depth information I don't see how we can easily accomplish that if we have to split everything into spoiler and non-spoiler info. Nifboy 03:34, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

A Few Changes.
I've decided to make a few changes. I've corrected some spelling mistakes here and there. More importantly, I thought the advanced techniques didn't belong under the Character category with the movelists, so I made a new page for it and put it under the category of "Techniques". It just makes more sense to me. Victor2000 01:29, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

-- As a note to this, I've noticed a LOT of things that desperatey needed a cleanup. For example, "A not-so-great in-your-face mid-air move." was used for one of Kirby's aerial moves. There are a lot more, some I fixed, others I left up to others' jurisdiction.--69.208.179.173 23:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikibooks merging
Well this is going to take a while. First of all, wikibooks super paginated everything, so how much do we want to merge it back into big pages? I think all the characters stuff can go onto one page, even the movelists and attack info and stuff. The items can also be merged, depending by item who has the best description. Personally, i don't think spoilers are necessary at all in ssbm, so i don't think secret characters should be separate.All the unplayable character and stages stuff should go on a miscallaneous page, as they aren't that important to gameplay. Their advanced techniques page needs serious de-uglification, and i can merge our more advanced stuff into theirs. thats all i can think of now. --blendmaster 13:41, 13 May 2006 (PDT)


 * do we really need to keep all the spoiler warnings in for ssbm wikibooks stuff? it seems like you'd have to be pretty crazy to be mad about someone spoiling the damage information for you...--blendmaster 20:51, 18 May 2006 (PDT)

Spoiling all characters image?
Scroll down, you can see that there is an image that shows the character selection screen with all characters unlocked. And just below that is a list of all the characters. Shouldn't there be a spoiler lock here and there?--ness
 * I wouldn't call listing the characters a spoiler - at least, not in a game with no plot. If we were talking about character bios for an RPG that's one thing since it might ruin the way the plot unfolds, but for a beat-em-up it's not likely to ruin much of the experience. --aniki21 06:07, 19 January 2006 (PST)
 * I think the only thing that would really spoil anything plotwise would be Zelda's transform move into Shiek. Otherwise, you could maybe put a small spoiler tag for people who want to be suprised by the unlockables. Personally, I was glad I found them out myself. --Netmonmatt 08:47, 19 January 2006 (PST)
 * does strategy wiki have a spoiler rollover hide or anything like the thing they have on the unfiction(alternate reality gaming forums) that just has a little block that stays all black or somthing unless you roll over it? because then we could just use that if its not a big spoiler. --blendmaster 11:38, 21 January 2006 (PST)

Template:SSBM Character
I made a template for all the characters. its called Template:SSBM Character. Its like Infobox exept for characters. I added learning curve and weight class as attributes but i can't think of anything else to put in the box. any ideas?--blendmaster 19:25, 24 January 2006 (PST)
 * Looks good, I don't think much else is necessary. <("<) Alex (>")> 22:26, 22 March 2006 (PST)

Item Sections
I've changed the items names from bullets to sub-sub-headings. I know this makes the contents way too huge, but headers look much better than bullets. Does anyone have another idea? <("<) Alex (>")> 18:53, 23 March 2006 (PST)

Multiple Pages
If you ask me, for no other reason than to better organize this guide, the SSBM guide should be multiple pages. I don't believe you have to go nuts with the pages, but placing categories such as Controls (including gameplay basics and Advanced Techniques), Characters, Items, Stages, and Modes should all have their own page. Seperately they make for an insanely long, single page guide. Let me know what you think (I could even do it for you if you want). --Irish Ninja 21:01, 23 March 2006 (PST)
 * I think that's a great idea, go for it as far as I'm concerned. <("<) Alex (>")> 23:27, 23 March 2006 (PST)
 * Well, I did it. It still think it needs some fine tuning (and a basic Table of Contents), but it feel much better organized now. I think most Fighting games can do with a single page, but there is so much to SSBM that it wasn't working.--Irish Ninja 01:18, 24 March 2006 (PST)
 * I think since its a relatively spoiler free game, the single page format is better even if the page was getting kind of big. But now since its been done, i think the table of contents needs descriptions and the ALL Page Nav thing added to the pages. Also, the items page is ugly with all those tiny sub-sub headings. just my opinion though.--blendmaster 21:01, 28 March 2006 (PST)
 * Yeah, the sub-sub headings aren't too pretty, but I think they look better than the bullets that they replaced. I'll see what I can do about the navigation. <("<) Alex (>")> 16:14, 29 March 2006 (PST)
 * ADDENDUM: I can't figure out how to customize the All Game Nav template to link to the specific pages. Does anyone else know how to do this? <("<) Alex (>")> 16:30, 29 March 2006 (PST)
 * Yeah, I can do it. --blendmaster 12:46, 30 April 2006 (PDT)
 * well, with the merge of the main page and table of contents and interduction, we really don't need the all game nav.--blendmaster 13:19, 30 April 2006 (PDT)
 * I'm going to merge the table of contents with the main page, just because the table of contents isn't really long anyway. --blendmaster 12:55, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

new sections
I added a few new sections to the Table of Contents on the main page. I didn't create them, just made some dummy links. Can anyone think of any other sections?--blendmaster 13:10, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

Stat Source
Here's the resource that was used for the character infoboxes; posted here because the original location was deleted.

Statistics available on this post. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 19:15, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

Strategy Wiki? It looks like Wikepedia
Not to insult either websites, but the character page has no depth at all, like Wikipedia, just facts about the characters and stuff. I think there should be the list, and each characters own page, with strategy on how to fight on different levels and against different players. And what happened to putting moves other than B moves? I don't get it. If anyone agrees I'll help, but this is very sad, I come to see barely any strategy. If you all plan on doig this kind of stuff then forgive me, I didn't know. -- Apo Jack 16:12, 17 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Check out Super Smash Bros. Melee/Move Lists. Actually, the B-moves should probably all be moved to the move list pages.  If you can expand on each character to strategies, I guess we could move them out of the move lists subgroup and make them character specific. -- Prod (Talk) 17:19, 17 June 2007 (CDT)


 * No, I totally agree, it has plenty of work that needs to be done. On the character page, a full move list should also be there (we like to have two copies) but additional information should also be there.  --User:Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:10, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I would actually suggest only having a brief overview of the characters, and then on their separate pages go in-depth about strategies and moves. Also add the list of characters to the ToC like in the Metroid Prime Hunters guide (the Hunters section on the ToC). -- Prod (Talk) 20:17, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, okay then. I myself am horrible at even the simplest of formatting and HTML, so one you get it set up I'll gladly help. And speaking of MPH, it's sad Lunar's stuck on a different website now :( And I agree, there should be an over all characters page, and then each has their own. For example, Link's page would have all the moves, and if it goes that far general strategies PLUS different strategies for when you fight different people. And then for stages it could be very similar, a general idea of each level then strategies for each of the characters on their own page. Just a thought. When I said I could help, don't be expecting too much. I want to make a MPH guide, then I can help here. -- Apo Jack 15:54, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Edit: I went ahead and made this page: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Melee/List_of_Characters I don't know how to put it in the ToC, though. I want it so it says "Characters" with a link to that page, and then under it a link to each of the characters page I made. After that we can get rid of the move list and put it in the character specific page there. We don't have to, though. Now that i think about it, we should actually have a link on each character's page to their movelist -- Apo Jack 16:42, 18 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Before we do anything I think if we're going to do it that way, we can just format the character page to look like that and then have subpages for the characters. The "List of Characters" page should be deleted, since Characters is the same thing, however the list is compacted in the ToC of the Characters page.  We do need both to exist, character page and movelist so we'll keep them separate but we can either duplicate the movelist or just link to it.  --User:Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 16:48, 18 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Alternatively, I was thinking of just slapping on Template:Info to the beginning of each character section on the character page, and use it to link to a character subpage. --User:Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 16:51, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * But we'll need a new page anyways if we plan on having two different pages. Well, maybe not. Maybe at the top of the characters page we could have a list for the in-depth characters. So it should be like this, I think:

Characters (You click that to be brought to the page with all the characters.)

Here it has each individual character.

Make sense? Like it? -- Apo Jack 20:52, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Hey, that looks good. But I think it doesn't have to be so tall. Just have several shorter rows stretch out horizontally. Apo Jack 14:21, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Apo, what looks good? Always specify what page you're talking about.  --User:Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 16:27, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I was talking about the table of contents, there were links to each of the individual character pages. BUT, then Joshua went along and got rid of the characters being on the ToC, as if he has even been discussing with us about what we were doing. His reasoning was "Let's keep it compact" but it really isn't his choice. We CAN keep it compact, though, if we have many more rows with less people on each row. What I'm saying is it used to all be coming straight down in one column, but if we had four or five columns, it would be just fine. Apo Jack 13:53, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Why do we need the individual move lists to be noted? --User:Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 14:19, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The move lists are already there. They can be moved to Super Smash Bros. Melee/Character Name if everyone agrees to the move. -- Prod (Talk) 14:49, 20 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Move? Why not copy.  The individual character page is more than just a movelist.  --User:Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 16:33, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * We would move the character pages (SSBM/Move lists/Fox -> SSBM/Fox) and then expand those pages to include full information about the character. The /Characters page would be just for general information, perhaps with the "more info" links you suggested. -- Prod (Talk) 16:49, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree with Prod entirely. I also think, as to prevent large pages at first glance, have some things be a "Click to show all" type thing. Like the movelist could be like that, where you have to click a button to show it. Just like the pending tasks at the top of this page, except not pending tasks :) So do we agree that we should create new pages for each individual pages and then get rid of the movelist pages? Is it possible to change the name? Well either would work. Oops. I forgot my signature, a day late, but here it is: Apo Jack 15:12, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah I guess that will work. If it turns out bad we can always change it ahaha. --User:Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 19:26, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

I would be against using the "show" type thing. It requires javascript meaning that people who don't have it enabled won't be able to use the page. I think the "more info" links should be good enough. -- Prod (Talk) 20:40, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * So are we or are we not making whole new pages and deleting the move list pages? Apo Jack 21:53, 22 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Characters: General page, shows some strategy info/some generic info on each character, links to personal page. Personal Page: Has a copy of the movelist, full strategy.  Movelist: Either lists the movelist of every character, or links to the specific movelist of each character, NOT the personal page.  At SW we have move list pages that are a special kind, I think we should still have one for each SSBM character.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 12:10, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Kind of late to the discussion, but why do we need three character pages? I think that a single /Characters page would be perfect for generic information and links to the Move Lists pages.  Do we really need a personal page for each character?  I would like to standardize the three Smash Bros. pages if at all possible so that they are in a similar style and format.  If the ToC is in alphabetical order, shouldn't the characters on the character pages also be in alphabetical order?  Things are very confusing right now.-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 09:03, 7 October 2007 (CDT)
 * The problem is the characters page is already massive, and there's a ton of individual content (probably the total size would double). SW already is bogged down and loading a page like that might not even work.  -- 15:22, 7 October 2007 (CDT)

Completion Stage 4
I've moved this guide to completion stage 4, if you disagree please feel free to change it back.-- Duke Ruckley Talk 13:48, 9 March 2008 (CDT)