StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal

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Feature Guides Template
Ok so breaking off from that other thread, I decided to make one of my own (I made a cleanup one for Wikipedia with an optional small parameter). Anyways, you can check out the template in use at User:Notmyhandle/Sandbox2 and you can use the template (until it gets moved to the correct name) by using. How does it look? Thanks Garrett for some of the things (icon filename, feature guides page link). --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 10:18, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Why is your CSS more complex--what's difference does it make? Also, why is it further over--we don't have any other header templates do we? GarrettTalk 20:16, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * <_< >_> I just couldn't get yours to work so... can you show me an example? I don't even know how to subst/place yours.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:40, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I've only just restored the .topicon class, which is probably why it didn't work for you. Do a hard refresh (Ctrl+F5) of this file to ensure it displays correctly. All going well, you can see it in action at the top of Sandbox. GarrettTalk 21:54, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Mmk. Looks delicious, why isn't it at Template:Featured guide yet? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:57, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Cause we don't have Featured guides yet. -- Prod (Talk) 22:25, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, we don't have a featured guides voting system or anything. My idea was to have it sort of like a sixth stage where only the best of the best would be. But first we need some way of determining what makes a "better than simply being complete" guide. GarrettTalk 00:41, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
 * One way of determining "better than simply being complete" guides would be to have candidates for featured guide be reviewed, as on Wikipedia. Currently, level 4 guides aren't reviewed, are they? --DrBob (Talk) 14:23, 30 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Nay they aren't DB. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:30, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Does anybody else think that we should go ahead and get started on this? We came to a general agreement that we should have featured guides, so all we need to do now is come up with policy and standards. Here are some important things I've been thinking:
 * To be nominated, the guide must be at level four completion.
 * A featured guide should:
 * Have all the features of a lvl 4 completed guide
 * Contain no drivel
 * Make good use of images
 * Be easy to follow and understand
 * Have very few spelling/grammatical errors
 * Have no red links
 * Majority rules
 * Confirmed and approved by sysop/bureaucrat on look/feel committee (this I'm unsure about, any thoughts?)
 * Featured guide, once approved, gets a star in place of lvl. 4 completion

Would there be a way to prevent people from making a guide a featured guide without going through the process? That is the only real concern I have (especially when SW becomes larger).-- Duke Ruckley  13:02, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I would say no to the look/feel committee, as they have more to do with standards. Actually, forget all committees whatsoever. What we should do is have a page similar to the Collab page and Promising page, where we have a discussion and voting process by the community lead to a consensus. Then, once a certain day comes (say like 5 days before the first of the next month), a few volunteer sysops look over the nominated guides and judge what they think best follows the outlined points of a featured guide. Then, whoever is in charge weighs what the volunteers think with the votes and comes out with a winner (actually, forming a Featured Material committee might be nice for that). As for people making fake ones, that's why every registered user on StrategyWiki (besides blocked ones) have the ability to revert edits. -- 13:22, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

WikiProject
As wikipedia has WikiProjects, we could have something similar, perhaps with a gaming theme. Some options: Others could be Move lists, Box artwork, Categories, Series. -- Prod (Talk) 00:57, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Achievements StrategyProject
 * Achievements Taskforce
 * Achievements quest
 * Achievements party
 * Achievements guild
 * Achievements clan


 * I like the idea. We could probably get things done a lot faster. Oh, and I like "quest". It is certainly a gaming theme, and... I don't know, it just sounds better than the others. Baejung92 12:09, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Can we hack the software to put in a WikiProject namespace, that'd be good.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:14, 30 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Hmmm...What exactly would this be for? I'm not opposed to the idea, I'm just curious what this would be for exactly. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 12:22, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It's like an ongoing collaboration. On wikipedia there are groups like WikiProject Video games who focus on improving the video game guides.  Since we are only video game guides here, we can have more specialized ones.  For example, we already have the Cleanup project (which would be renamed to the Cleanup quest).  -- Prod (Talk) 13:40, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I like this idea, it would be really good to have a sort of 'co-ordination list', where people can look in, see what needs to be done (eg, categorise all the pics involved in Final Fantasy games or something), and do it to cross it off the list, and people involved can send wikilove to them :-P.--Froglet 22:02, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Actually, we don't have to use any hacks to add namespaces. If we decide to implement this as a namespace, it's as simple as editing the configs.  ech elon  00:05, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * We could have games in the scope of the Project, It'd be really good, also, we could have a Game help project which lists all the games completed and will give advice.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:38, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Er, what? --DrBob (Talk) 10:00, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I like this idea, but I think it'll only be useful for large projects (such as achievements and cleanup). I don't think it'd be useful to have organised "projects" for single games (such collaboration could just happen on the game's talk pages), although large series such as Pokemon could have projects. I'm opposed to calling them anything silly like "quests" or "clans", as I think that's just confusing and not very professional (OK, so I'm boring :-P ). Projects could easily go in the StrategyWiki namespace, just like the cleanup project (which is not being renamed!). --DrBob (Talk) 10:00, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree with DrBob about the professional aspect of it... It may not be as fun, but it will save a lot of confusion in the future.  I like the idea though.  It won't really work out much until we have more people though.-- Duke  Ruckley  13:00, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Date categories
For the cats on the main page, should we use all of the dates as cats (e.g for a game that was released in 12 October in 1999 for Japan and 1st January 2311 in Europe), would we have the 1999, 1st Jan, 2311 and 12th October cat. The two years and the 1st date or just the first date and year, I've just been doing the 1st date and year but I'd like to know what is right.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:03, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * We used to categorise by all dates, but then it was decided that we'd categorise by the earliest date only, so that's what you should do. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 10:07, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I think that policy decision should be added to Pelago 16:18, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I've expanded that page a little, although I think it could still do with some more information. Feel free to suggest anything you think it's lacking. --DrBob (Talk) 16:40, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Sums
Is there a way to do simple sums with the Mediawiki software, I'm thinking of using it here to get the number of guides left. BTW hasn't been installed and I don't really think there'd be much point of having it here.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:04, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10=. -- Prod (Talk) 14:12, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks, Prod.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:15, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Template parameter consistency
Well, I was looking at some of the templates we have, and a lot of the parameters seem somewhat arbitrary. For example on System we have |released and |consoleimage; on Infobox we have |releasedates and |boxart; on Company we have |logo. I would suggest changing consoleimage, boxart, and logo -> image (they're also consistent with what's used on wikipedia). releasedates on the other hand could be released, which is also used on wikipedia (they also allow |release). Company uses |website, Infobox uses |url. I personally prefer website since it's clearer. -- Prod (Talk) 15:24, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Agreed. I'll see if I can start making some of these changes. --DrBob (Talk) 15:28, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I support these changes, having to "learn" new templates more than necessary is a waste of time. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:32, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I've just finished updating the company and system templates, and all the pages referencing the parameters on those templates that I changed. --DrBob (Talk) 20:21, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Main Page WIP
Dan thinks it's really important that we get community feedback on some proposed changes to the Main Page, so if everybody would care to look at Main Page/WIP and give their opinions, I'd be grateful. The proposal is to add the "system browser" (system browser) just below the introductory text. --DrBob (Talk) 11:38, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * First order of business, do we use it at all. It would be much easier for me to use since I don't like reading... (then again, I rarely visit the front page).  After that, we can decide on placement.  There are two options so far


 * 1) Right at the top of the screen
 * 2) Just below the introduction
 * I prefer 2 since it merges in with the content much more "cleanly". -- Prod (Talk) 11:46, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks DrBob. One of the main issues with the new system nav is that if the browser window is just small enough, the nav jumps out of the page margin and overlaps the toolbox. We need to imeplent a min-width on StrategyWiki to fully fix this problem, and obviously that is an entire different discussion by itself. So until then, I think the logos should be made small enough such that the total width of the new nav is just as wide as the Genres browser. Another gripe of mine is the placement of the nav itself. Having it between the four-point columns and the SW introduction seems very displaced and attention-stealing. If it were smaller, it'd make more sense for it to be placed on the top of the page. And to reply to Prod (I jumped into an edit conflict with him at the time of this writing), I choose 1 on the notation that it steals attention from Most Promising Guide and What is StrategyWiki? columns. Seeing how many people read those sections and few will ever look at the console nav, it's not balanced.--Dan 11:57, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'd like to offer a third placement that may be more difficult to implement, but more appealing visually. What if we put it inside the introduction box?  The logos would need to be smaller, which I think should be done anyway.  This might prevent it from distracting from the rest of the main page.-- Duke  Ruckley  13:07, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

2 Important things: 1) We need to support lower resolutions; currently the new main page and community issues pages have graphics that extend beyond the edges of the screen on even 800x600. I use a lower resolution at work, and people on Wii's are going to have an even smaller resolution (I think). 2) An easy way to resolve the community issues page is to make the image dynamic (left border, stretchable image, text, stretchable image, right border) with some html. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 18:35, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Additionally, I think the main page icons could be considerably smaller. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 18:38, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I like the graphical icons, but I think they should be smaller and not slanted diagonally (or at least, have *all* of them slanted rather than just some).Pelago 16:23, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * They wouldn't fit in 64x64px if they weren't slanted (without being illegible). --DrBob (Talk) 16:31, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * OK. To restart the discussion, I've modified the system browser template to use a scrollbar if things start overflowing, so if you now go to Main Page/WIP and resize it down to 800x600, things won't start leaking. I think the only issue that remains is that of the image size, which people think should be smaller. I'll have a go at sorting that too. --DrBob (Talk) 09:31, 8 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I've changed the template to use 24px icons, which seem to work better, and it's no longer stealing all the attention. With people's support, I'd like to move this to the main Main Page pronto. --DrBob (Talk) 09:38, 8 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'll support it, looks great. Although, now that they are 24px they could all now be horizontal instead of diagonal. -- 09:42, 8 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Support, so long as it still looks good on 800x600 resolution (it does now). Skizz, diagonal?  Everything looks rightside up to me. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 11:47, 8 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I meant the icons themselves, like PS2, PS3, PSP, and GBA were diagonal so that they could fit without taking up too much room. However, they would look better as horizontal, even if they take up an extra 4-8 pixels in the process. -- 12:20, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

How About a Top Ten
Could the bottom section of Special:Statistics be modified to only include Category:Games and a copy placed on the main page? I really like the top 10 on GameFAQs. If implemented, it would add some mercuriality (there's the word I was looking for) to our otherwise fairly static main page. It would also link to popular content. Like a featured guide, but voted on by pageviews. --  blendmaster | talk  ]] 23:11, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Milestone achieved
We have now reached 1337 guides! We are officially 1337! -- Prod (Talk) 11:49, 2 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Our 1337 guide (I think) is Heretic WOOT!!!--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:57, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Correct, created at 11:28, 2 July 2007 by Vikrant AP. -- Prod (Talk) 12:02, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Hah, you beat me to it! :P Oh well:



echelontalk 14:08, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Am I missing something? Why is 1337 a milestone?? --RamonSalazar 19:06, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Check wikipedia. -- Prod (Talk) 19:15, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

OK now no one create another guide for a while (j/k). But I would really want to see the day when the number of completed guides is 1337! Baejung92 20:26, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Too late :-P. -- Prod (Talk) 20:30, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Nooooooo!! Baejung92 14:25, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Deprecated Templates Category
There are a ton of pages in the deprecated templates category that really don't belong there. I think it may have happened during the transition to the HN from the AGN... Any easy fix to this?-- Duke Ruckley  14:40, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * By changing the AGN to HN and changing prev to back in the FN, those pages still aren't done (Prod's cleaning up every page before he does the navs).--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:46, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * They were put there since the AGN is deprecated. It'll be empty again in a few weeks (or at least mostly).  If you want a list of non AGN related pages, I can give that to you. -- Prod (Talk) 15:00, 2 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Could always replace the page with:


 * and that'd fix it. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 18:30, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Donate?
I don't mean a big donation drive with a bar at the top of every page, or anything that big. However, some of the more philanthropic people on the internet would probably click a paypal donate button or link, if there was one. How about it? --blendmaster 17:32, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm willing to donate periodically. What I really want is a bluecloud themed SW shirt with admin on the back XD --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 18:36, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * That would be a totally kickass shirt, not to mention it could seriously interest others in joining our cause:
 * "Hey, where'd you get that shirt?"
 * "Oh, I got it at this cool website, StrategyWiki.org..."
 * I like that idea a lot. Perhaps Teddy could bestow upon us some heavenly design of his. echelontalk 23:09, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Only for admins? I want one but not with the word "Contributor" or something on it... haha Baejung92 14:30, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The idea of a shirt is pretty good, though a few diffirent versions would be required. It could be fun to have a few that had odd titles like minion. I would buy one to go be a billboard at some of the local cons in my area. I imagine if we make good guides that leave users satisfied they would want to donate. --Zaiqukaj 03:16, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Well we can probably just leave the text totally customizable. Most print shops allow only upper case letters and numbers, no symbols.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 11:04, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * How 'bout cafepress? --blendmaster 14:18, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Move List namespace
Sorry if I've missed talk on this already, but shouldn't there be a namespace for all these Move Lists? Maybe it annoys me more than it should, but it seems like they should be moved to their respective games or namspaced ( yes, it's a verb ), because there's no game called "Move Lists". --blendmaster 13:11, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I think Category:Move lists is enough, though it might be nice to have a separate namespace. I don't think it's necessary though. -- Prod (Talk) 23:50, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

E3
Hey guys, I wanted to give you all a heads up on E3. It starts next week, and you can view it live at GameSpot.com; I'll be checking it out, I hope to see some new StarCraft II footage. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 11:16, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I have some buddies who are going this year so if you want pictures of anything, let me know and I'll see if I can get in touch with them while they are there. E3 is going to be a little different this year, but I doubt that it will be so different that they won't get burned out after like the first day.  I used to make it a little game out of it and see how much SWAG I could get and stuff in my bag... Procyon (Talk) 14:45, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm mostly interested in Blizzard and Nintendo stuff. But anything really innovative is definitely on my list as well.  Whatever happend to that game... Spores was it?  Where you like, create a custom creature, it evolves over time, then eventually you like, duke it out with other tribes and stuff...  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:39, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It's Spore. The hype for it is so huge that I'm wondering if it's going to be the next Fable or Daikatana; they weren't terrible, but they were only a shadow of all that was promised. Anyway, it's going to be interesting to see how it turns out. GarrettTalk 23:37, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't let Mason hear you say that :P--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:30, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think Spore is real likely to flop... It is being created by Will Wright, who has a history of coming up with really awesome games (SimCity series, The Sims, etc).-- Duke  Ruckley  09:24, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

ps3 walkthroughs
I think some one needs to start on walkthroughs for the playstation 3 games. i own a ps3, and frequently can't find any sort of help online, not even on stratgey wiki. the only game ive seen a walkthrough for is for resistance: fall of man. The games on the ps3 can be more difficult than games on other systems at times, and sometimes you may just want to figure out some oblivious thing to the game. i thing this would really help strategy wiki, and i plan on starting a guide to motorstorm for the ps3. -Pyro maniac 13:02, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It can take some time for people to start writing strategy guides after getting a new system like a PS3, and we don't have many contributors for the PS3, so as you say we haven't got many PS3 guides. It's good to hear you're planning to write one (just make sure it's not a copyright violation ;-), and feel free to ask any questions here in community issues. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 13:08, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * BTW we have 14 main pages for PS3 guides, see the bottom of here.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:11, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Release dates
I'm not sure why it wasn't done before, but I've got round to making some release date templates, which display release dates in a standard form, with a little country flag. The default one is rd, and I've tried to keep them all as short as possible, meaning that when used normally, they now occupy less space than the old release date stuff used to. :-) I don't think there's much to comment on, apart from the fact that I couldn't get Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg working (so uk is using Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.png temporarily instead). I've converted Final Fantasy X to use the new templates (simply because it has a few release dates), so you can see how they look. Enjoy! --DrBob (Talk) 14:41, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I've just applied the templates to all the guides linked from the front page, and I'll stop there to give people time to point out what a stupid idea this all is. :-D --DrBob (Talk) 14:57, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Might I suggest we use WP:Template:flagicon instead/aswell? It's really just a merge of all the templates into one. The main reason is, we tend to get a lot of those infoboxes from WP, so we might as well stay consistent as much as possible. -- Prod (Talk) 22:15, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * flagicon is better in the long run for several reasons. GarrettTalk 23:55, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I can't see much point, since it would bring an extra dependency into every page with an infobox (once these templates are used everywhere), and we're basically only going to use four or five flags, and only in those places. --DrBob (Talk) 06:09, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

I like the idea of using templates. It helps standardise the country codes (some pages use EU while others use Europe, and so forth) and could have other uses in the future. Since SVG rendering is still faulty (DrBob, can you get this working?) the template should use PNGs for now. These can be easily generated using Wikipedia's sandbox. GarrettTalk 23:55, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I think the SVGs for all flags except Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg render fine. I've got no idea what's wrong with the UK flag, but it isn't rendering well on my system either. --DrBob (Talk) 06:09, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I really like this idea and how it shows up in the infobox. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 12:55, 7 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The image is prerendered as a PNG before being sent to the client; browsers' SVG support (or lack thereof) have no effect on its appearance. GarrettTalk 16:41, 7 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I know; I probably didn't phrase that very well. What I mean is that the program generating the previews for the SVG files as they're saved on my computer is choking on the UK flag. --DrBob (Talk) 07:01, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

SSBB controls
I've just found this page, and despite providing more content for the guide, it raises an interesting question: how are we to represent Wiimote movements in controls pages? We can represent the common ones easily enough, but then you get games like WarioWare: Smooth Moves which use the controller to its full extent, and it gets harder. --DrBob (Talk) 15:00, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Gr8 site, I check nearly every day, we could have very small animated SVGs (if any1 is good with inkscape or other SVG editor) or gifs.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:08, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Animated SVGs are not an option because of poor browser support (see wp:SVG animation) and the necessity of yet another MediaWiki extension to get around them being automatically rendered into PNG (and thus unable to be manipulated by scripts).
 * Since many Wii games don't use the Z axis to its full effect (and thus have controls comparable to a mouse or analog stick) it should be quite possible to come up with a standard set of movements (like cade) and simply combine the instructions (like the Move lists) rather than make individual animations for each individual game action. It shouldn't be too difficult to decide upon some standard and clearly different colours for each axis (as with wp:Image:Flight dynamics.jpg). GarrettTalk 23:47, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Of course, but then what about games like WarioWare: Smooth Moves? I can only suggest we make some game-specific ones, although we could try and make them more general where possible. --DrBob (Talk) 06:11, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The best solution I can come up with is using images that show the direction the remote should move, with a good description of it. For example, if the remote should be swung above the head clockwise, we should have an image of the remote with a red arrow that indicates a circular, clockwise rotation.  We may be forced to come up with many images for all the different moves, but I think it is possible.  Keep in mind, we can also reference the booklet or even in-game tutorials which would do a much better job than we could anyway.-- Duke  Ruckley  09:33, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * With games that have a 1:1 motion action ratio, Move Lists sound like the best way to go. On something like Twilight Princess, I think it would be good to have a general picture of how a certain action is controlled. For instance, a picture of waggle for the sword, and a picture of a targeting reticle for the bow. Something almost uncannily like this. With games like WarioWare: Smooth Moves, a description would suffice for each mini game. Besides, aren't the controls for each mini game summarized in game anyway? --blendmaster 14:27, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

System messages
Does anyone know what system message controls where the links go in the bottom right hand corner (I want to un-redirect about StrategyWiki). I think MediaWiki:Aboutsite is what it says but I can't find out how to un-redirect the about link.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:38, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Fixed. The page that controls the link was MediaWiki:Aboutpage, by the way. -- 10:08, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:09, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Stats
We now have over 4000 pages according to Special:Statistics and we are rated no. 921 in New Zealand according to Alexa. W00T --
 * Nice! :D echelontalk 18:14, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Wiki Tabs
After finding out that page-specific js is nonexistant, I would like to request that the ability to make wiki tabs (code here, example here) to be put into MediaWiki:Common.js. This can be particularly useful with long lists of pages (like The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess/Enemies), so that instead of having either a very large page or 3-5 sub-pages, you can just hide the content until they want to have it shown. It works with images as well, and it can be used multiple times on one page (as demonstrated in the example). -- 14:00, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Looks OK, can we have a show all button as well if sum1 wants to print it out?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:03, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * No, the current code won't allow that. The only current way to do it is to put noinclude tags around the divs and then include that page into another page. -- 14:18, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Compression
Does anyone think we should have Category:Images needing compressing for these images--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:40, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Why do we worry about compression? Most of the time we use thumbnails to present these images anyway. I think it's kind of cool that we have a large collection of high-quality game-related imagery. I'd like us to build galleries in the future! echelontalk 18:18, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I think Rocky was meaning lossless solutions like PNGcrush. GarrettTalk 00:43, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Almost, I mean so that you can't really see any difference, e.g this from this. BTW PNGCrush would be good.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:17, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I've just reverted that image, as it did lose too much quality, and as echelon says, we've got the space, and almost all of the time people just see a thumbnail. If they want to see a larger version, then it's their choice to download it. I'd be fine with lossless solutions though (although they'd be better if they weren't run by us and uploaded as new versions of files, as that just takes up more space on the server unnecessarily). --DrBob (Talk) 13:21, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry then, feel free to delete what I uploaded--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:51, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * BTW does anyone mind if I compress or resize boxart a bit, it's not really that useful and some of the WP boxart is over 1MB--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:54, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I mind. I think it's a good thing to have a repository of box artwork, and it's not hurting for all the reasons above. --DrBob (Talk) 15:07, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah don't worry about it. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 15:11, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I was just a bit worried if they'd break fair use for being hig enough resolution for piracy.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:15, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * My impression is that if they are going to care about a screenshot, it's not going to matter the resolution. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 15:22, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I was talking about boxart, it doesn't matter though.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:30, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I have to agree with DrBob. I like our high-res collection of images. Since images appear on-page as thumbnails, the end user is not at all affected by resolution. However, if they would like a quality version of the original we are able to provide them with that. I think we should aim to keep the best quality images (within reason) available on our server. I think we'll scale to handle it all. echelontalk 21:35, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Guide search
I've added some code to search the current guide to my user js. It adds a link to the toolbox to do a search of the current book. Think we should implement it in MediaWiki:BlueCloud.js? -- Prod (Talk) 17:54, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * My one thing is that I would switch "book" to "guide," like I did in my user js. -- 18:45, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * One minor problem is that the page name isn't used as an exact expression—searches started from The Legend of Zelda will also result in hits from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and the like. More worryingly, it can't search titles with parentheses (e.g. Shadowrun (Genesis)) or special characters (e.g. We ♥ Katamari) even though these pages are indeed found if you do a web search for site:strategywiki.org. If these problems can somehow be resolved (perhaps by using the Custom Search Engine service?) I can definitely see implementing this. GarrettTalk 00:42, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Sounds good in principle, but the issues Garrett mentioned would need fixing. --DrBob (Talk) 15:08, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Wikipedia article
I think it's about time we seriously pursue a Wikipedia entry about StrategyWiki; having an article about our project will boost the visibility and viability of our project in the minds of others and further serve to boost our growth. Our notability statistics should already be more than enough to meet Wikipedia's concerns for WP:WP:NN and WP:WP:WEB.

We've worked on Wikipedia Article in the past, but I think we should rethink the content a little and focus on the key points. By focusing on the history we've had with Wikibooks, the past year of growth, and the lessons we've learned about presenting wiki guides, I think our article will give people a sense of what our project is and where it is going. Half of what we're saying just needs to be rephrased.

We don't really even need to mention GameFAQs. I'm tired of us being compared to GameFAQs in every Digg, blog writeup, etc. we ever have. :(

I'd like to post it to Wikipedia in a week.

What do you think? echelontalk 18:33, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree with severing the tie with GameFAQs (like I mentioned in our last digg. As for notability, I think it could stand up through the deletion nom and be kept (I almost guarantee that it'll be nommed for deletion). The one thing is that the infobox is missing the owner and created by info, and I think that it would be nice to include (don't know who you could reference for it, though). -- 18:50, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I still doubt we'd survive it. We have no "notable" references.  And using wikibooks as a proxy is fairly weak as well (they threw all their "junk" at us).  We have to be noticed by some major websites, or get in the top 10k alexa ranking. -- Prod (Talk) 19:41, 8 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Not to mention scale to another server via Squid and Replica (when it's finished.)--Dan 23:19, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Stylistic issue: 2nd person vs. 3rd person
Hi everyone. As some of you may know, I have begun to contribute to the The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past walkthrough. I have begun making changes to the very first part in the Hyrule Castle. I didn't plan on this originally, but it became somewhat enjoyable to write the walkthrough aspect of the guide in 3rd person, sort of as a novelization of Links' adventures. The writing style was designed to be entertaining and at the same time, informative, with examples like:
 * "Link tries to stun him with his new-found Boomerang, but it has little effect. Link fights well, but he takes some damage during the fight. He discovers that the pottery nearby contain hearts, just in case he runs low on life. Better yet, he realizes that he can throw the pottery at the guard, killing him even faster than with a sword."

But Garrett pointed out to me that this does, in fact, contradict every other guide's style of writing, and asked me to change it back to second person. After some hesitation, I agreed. I knew that Garrett had a point, and I didn't want to be stubborn about it and simply deny his request. So I have gone through and made the changes. The above was changed to:
 * "You can try to stun him with your new-found Boomerang, but it has little effect. If you take some damage during the fight, the pottery nearby contain hearts, just in case you run low on life. Better yet, you can throw the pottery at the guard, killing him even faster than with a sword."

For the time being, I will proceed in second person, but I'd like to ask for the community's opinion. Since the revisions are saved, I would like anyone to take a moment, and examine the page as it was written in third person, and as it is now written in second person. After you have compared them both (everything up to the Sewer section, I had not rewritten that part yet), please share your thoughts about whether the third person approach could in fact be a viable approach (if done properly) on StrategyWiki. If the majority clearly feels that this is not the direction that SW should proceed, then consider the matter closed. However, if there is enough of an agreement that the 3rd person style might be included, then we can discuss it here, and decide how we would like to proceed. Thanks very much, and thanks to Garrett for giving me a chance to broach the subject with everyone. Procyon (Talk) 19:34, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Personally, as long as it is consistant throughout, I really don't care. The 3rd person does give the text extra flavor, and, if done carefully and correctly, has the potential to relay more information to the reader than 2nd person (mainly because 2nd person guide-writing normally says "do this", while 3rd person can say "Link tries this, but it doesn't work, so he does this instead" to explains what happens if something else is tried beside the strategy). I'd say keep the 3rd person only to guides which have a central main character that you cannot choose from, and keep it consistant throughout the guides (like Pokémon should be in second person because later games have the option between a boy and a girl, so it must use second person, and the earlier games should match that style). As for the Legend of Zelda series, I think it would be great if the majority of them were in third person, if not just for the extra flavor of it. As another side note, games in the first person perspective should never be written in third person. -- 19:50, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * That first example, the style of writing is just way to weird. Like I can't read it like a guide.  When I looked at the second example, it totally made sense to me.  Strange stuff... Voodoo guide writing!  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:00, 9 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I think this diff is more useful. My view is that it actually requires a mix of both.  Cinematics should be 3rd person, gameplay should be 2nd person.  -- Prod (Talk) 22:38, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm hesitant to say "yes" to having a whole guide in third-person, because as NMH says, it sounds weird (to me, anyway). I think Prod has a good idea though, and I'd be OK with that — you could, for example, put stuff in sidebars in third-person. --DrBob (Talk) 12:08, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm... I love this style of writing, but I think it depends on genre. Action-adventure games (Tomb Raider and what-not) and RPGs could really use this and benefit from it, while for certain types of shooters (say, Battlefield 2) and most RTSes the classic 2nd person would be better. But in RTSes where you play a certain character throughout the game (StarCraft), it might work. Baejung92 14:35, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I think it just isn't straight forward enough. Cut to the chase!  Like my whole "flowery" language on Mega Man, it's the same thing (Proc/Prod).  For Cinematics, I think we should have a special template that acts as a drop down (i.e. Template:Cinematic).  Using this template we hide the cinematic info (it's a spoiler, and they can just watch anyways) but use 3rd person descriptions on it.  I'll make it if you guys like the idea.  Also, the bar (like Header Nav) would be colored to have it stand out.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:18, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

I prefer the second person imperative style: "Go here, do that, and when you've finished killing him, do this". Some of Paper Mario is currently in third person, and it reads very strangely to my ears. Pelago 16:09, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm on the side of 2nd person. A user that needs help advancing in a game wants either a quick answer or in depth teaching of strategies. The pages that have been linked for examples of 3rd person being used hurt my brain a bit. It takes a moment of studying the text to dig up the instructions. The key word you is great for quickly skimming for instructions on the next action. Any time I have ever needed a guide was becasue I could not figure out what was needed to advance further. I do however agree with someone above. Parts of the guide that are story only (like cutscenes or dialog) work well as either. Since there is no control over elements like cutscenes the change in narrative seems really fitting. It could express a diffirence between when the player has or lacks control over actions. --Zaiqukaj 04:45, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

1st person narrative
Breaking off from the above thread, how's something like this? It's not quite the first person POV I've learned not to use. Baejung92 14:33, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It is certainly interesting, but I'm going to say no. For one thing, it has to be worded perfectly in order for it to flow and sound right, and many people use strategy guides as... guides! I highly doubt someone did everything written on a guide in exactly that order without differing from it slightly. To me, our purpose is to recommend an effective strategy. What the people actually do with our strategy is entirely up to them. Plus, to someone that understands that more than one person wrote the page, it adds a layer of complexity, for the guide implies that it was written by one, whereas the history states otherwise. Whenever I say "we are all one", I think of the borg from Star Trek. I don't want to be a borg. -- 15:42, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Image too big
I would like to upload this image to put as boxart but every time I try to upload it, I get an error message. Is this a limit that's been set in the software or what?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:10, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't know the answer to your question Rocky, but I'm just curious: why on earth do you want to upload an image that is so huge? Procyon (Talk) 12:19, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It would help if you posted the actual error message. :-P --DrBob (Talk) 13:00, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Dunno about Firefox but it comes up with the default IE6 "Cannot find server or DNS Error" error.

--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:18, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The browser might be timing out because the image is so huge. Seriously, why do you need an image that big? It's 1565x2236! -- 14:23, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I got told By DB to not bother compressing it because we have the space. But I guess that was one exception.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:29, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
 * We can use box artwork which is bigger than 250px for stuff, but something that large is going to have to be downsized whatever you use it for. --DrBob (Talk) 16:44, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
 * That image is 1.66 MB. Try to stay below 1 MB, though the cap is at 1.5MB. -- Prod (Talk)
 * I affirm the above statement.--Dan 00:05, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

StrategyWiki:Guide/Tables
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Why is there so much stuff on this page? Does anyone mind if I rip it all out, and replace it with a basic tutorial for simple tables, revolving around correct use of headers, captions, and prettytable? --DrBob (Talk) 09:19, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't forget about class="wikitable", but yeah, I think that would be a good idea. I think it should focus more on what is commonly used (wikitable and prettytable), not every aspect of a table. We could have a group of pages in like StrategyWiki:Guide/Advanced/ for more advanced techniques for those who want to learn more than the basic stuff. -- 09:41, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The guide is supposed to be a replacement for the Help namespace on WP. We should have all this stuff explained within the guide, it just doesn't have to all be in the same place. -- Prod (Talk) 13:43, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Why not use |customnext on the footer nav to add the advanced tables and others in and have it bulleted in the TOC--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:30, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Sounds like a plan. I'll try and do it tomorrow. --DrBob (Talk) 18:35, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * prettytable is a wrapper for wikitable, so wikitable on its own is basically deprecated. --DrBob (Talk) 18:35, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I've moved the old stuff to Guide/Tables/Advanced, and re-done the Guide/Tables page so it only covers what most people need. --DrBob (Talk) 09:28, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Half-Life
There's a wikibooks:Wikibooks:Votes for deletion up for deletion on wikibooks. Do we want it or not? If yes, how would we arrange the pages? If someone can tell me how to arrange them, I can take care of the transwiki (edit history and all). -- Prod (Talk) 21:12, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
 * We should definitely have them here, as they do provide some nice information. As to where we should put them, I have no idea. I've transwiki'ed them over to GameInfo on Wikia just in case WikiBooks decides to delete them before we can get them here and/or we decide not to have them here. -- 21:54, 12 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I'll help sort that out later. I've beaten HL like 10 times, OF like twice and played half way through blue shift.  For now, just dump it on something like Half-Life/Wikibooks Dump.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:44, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

2 covers?
Just a thought, but if a game has 2 completely different covers for its US and European versions (such as MGS: Twin Snakes) could we include both of these in the game's infobox (e.g. one above the other)? --RamonSalazar 08:29, 13 July 2007 (CDT) Pelago 16:32, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Put the cover which was first released in the infobox, and then any other covers in a
 * If it's not obvious which country the boxart in the infobox is from, a note can be made in the introductory text on the main guide page. I think it would be a bit redundant to have the same image again in the gallery below, but I certainly wouldn't be against it (it would allow for a more direct comparison). I'm being nitpicky now, but it wouldn't be AJAX which would be used to do such scripting — it would simply be DOM manipulation via JavaScript, and I think that just over-complicates matters. --DrBob (Talk) 16:35, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Image Naming
I've created and uploaded a few images for Picross DS (basically puzzle solution pictures) and they have all been tagged for re-naming. As far as I can tell, they fit in with the examples given in the image naming guide. The series of images are called Picrossds easymode a‎ and so on - meaning that image is for "Puzzle A" in Easy Mode of Picross DS. I'd like to know what the images should be called as I have more to add to the guide. --RamonSalazar 09:04, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Looking at those image names without knowing that info you just mentioned makes it seem like they are just all images of "easymode" marked in order with letters instead of numbers. Perhaps Picrossds easymode puzzle a could have reduced that ambiguity, but I think that naming them of their object name (like Picrossds puzzle star or Pircrossds puzzle ball) would reduce the ambiguity even more. -- 09:24, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * An extension would be nice. I was talking with Prod when he tagged them.  They don't need to be as descriptive as Skizzers suggested, but I mean, a period and three extra letters isn't too much to ask for. Procyon (Talk) 10:20, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * lol, didn't even notice that. .png would be the extension to use for that, since all of them are in that format. -- 10:27, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I didn't notice that either, oops. So does that mean the actual names of the files are OK? --RamonSalazar 10:57, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Everyone's filenaming, including my own, could always stand to be improved, but there's only so far you're going to go before it becomes too much. For me personally, the only things about a filename that truly matter are:
 * Can you tell what game it's from somehow?
 * Is each picture from one game given a distinct label?
 * Is the file type (extention) identified?
 * If you're meeting all three of those criteria, then you've done the minimum acceptable work. Procyon (Talk) 12:27, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Unresolved CI discussions
I'm going through the old CI archives looking for stuff that we didn't full complete but archived due to inactivity. I'll be bringing them up as I find them here. -- Prod (Talk) 14:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Can you delete them once they've been resolved or are you going to wait for a full archive? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 00:28, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Category renaming
Only ones remaining from this are: Super NES and SNES are the official names if you visit the website. SNES is more common and matches the Category:NES name (showing that it's an extension of the NES). This change would take about 1 day with my bot. -- Prod (Talk) 14:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Category:Super Nintendo -> Category:SNES (Official name)
 * Category:Super Nintendo controller buttons -> Category:SNES controller buttons
 * Fine by me. --DrBob (Talk) 14:54, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, go for it. -- 18:03, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Done the 2nd one. First one I'll wait till tomorrow to give other people a chance to reply (it would take longer to undo). -- Prod (Talk) 21:36, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I say yes, change Super Nintendo to SNES. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 23:51, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Done. -- Prod (Talk) 23:07, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Trademark/copyright
This was about having a short trademark/copyright notice at the bottom of all image pages. Not sure if this one was completed. -- Prod (Talk) 14:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Looks like it's already been done. --DrBob (Talk) 14:54, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I only see the GFDL message. Don't we need something like All trademarks are the property of their respective owners, or something similar? -- Prod (Talk) 21:39, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Top of this section. --DrBob (Talk) 03:30, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Where is that shown? ([|nothing] links to it). -- Prod (Talk) 09:34, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * In BlueCloud, at the bottom right corner of every page is a link called "Disclaimers", which leads to it (it's right under the About StrategyWiki link). In MonoBook, it's located at the bottom center, also called "Disclaimers". -- 10:18, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Posters
Anyone else have some posters they'd like to share? Perhaps some kind of competition? -- Prod (Talk) 14:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * /ping echelon --DrBob (Talk) 14:54, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * How about setting up an "official" contest at Poster contest? -- 18:03, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I've kept one continually posted at the entrance of our campus' CS lab year-round, but it's not really noteworthy. It'd be cool to have a sweet graphical poster/ad that draws attention. echelontalk 21:22, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I know it isn't really widespread right now, but this image of QR code is a link to our site and might look "cutting edge" on a poster (or just confuse them all :P). -- Prod (Talk) 22:16, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Very few phones have the software for QR codes in the US... :( echelontalk 00:59, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'll see what I can come up with next week, but for now, Ech should take the bluecloud SW logo and extend the boundaries of it, then release the image. Also, isolate the text and release that by itself as well (as like .psd's and other file types).  If you help spur the competition, more submissions will come!  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 12:24, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * We just got the old PSD, and I think Teddy has worked with it some. I'll ask him which version we should release. echelontalk 16:29, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I got one too--Image:SW Poster stumped.png. -- 11:23, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Competition has been spurred: . --blendmaster 13:31, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice. How about this? -- 14:58, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * No... If I have to spend more than 5 seconds reading an advertisement, they don't get me. Blend's is most effective so far.  I think we also need something along the line of Red vs. Blue.  Procyon (Talk) 15:39, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Here's my submission, based on Procyon's suggestion. Image:Prod StrategyWiki Poster.png -- Prod (Talk) 22:45, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * What do you mean something along the line of Red vs. Blue? I'm imagining a sitcom set in wikicode, where sysops battle for two contested page revisions; perhaps they make jokes about a certain user's lightish-red signature. But no matter. Concerning Prod's design: It's nice and simple, but something about that Microsoft(c) WordArt(TM) doesn't tickle my pickle. It's just so, well, PowerPoint. Those garish letters superimposed upon a low contrast background conjure memories - bad memories - of long hours wasted watching my fellow students' presentations fly, sparkle, roll, and explode onto one of those chintzy canned backgrounds, while they recite an equally entertaining harangue, consisting completely of the composition ( 4 bullets, no more than 6 words each ) on screen. --blendmaster 23:39, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
 * OK, my turn. These were some ideas that I was tossing around with Echelon.  They're meant to be short, simple, and too the point.  I present Mario, Street Fighter, and Sonic.  Also, when I was a little kid, Atari ran advertisements like this one for Ms. Pac-Man, so I replicated it a little bit for StrategyWiki here.  I would consider these by no means well done.  They're just to communicate a point.  Teddy could do a much better job with these than I could.  Procyon (Talk) 16:34, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * This is Skizzerz's idea, and I think one of his best quite frankly. I did the execution of the idea, but I didn't use very good source materials.  Anyway, Skizzerz, this is what you were thinking of, right? Procyon (Talk) 19:19, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice. Blends in well too. *sigh* Why can't I make them like that? :P -- 19:27, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Can we also get some suggestions for black and white versions that don't cost a ton of ink. -- Prod (Talk) 20:27, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I like Procyon's so far, but they need to mention StrategyWiki's actual URL (could we integrate the ".org" part into a version of that logo, somehow?), and as Prod says; they need to be slightly less colourful. To be printed cheaply, they need to mostly consist of two or three major colours. --DrBob (Talk) 01:25, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Someone needs to make a head on (2d) logo for StrategyWiki. The 3d logo looks horrible on anything but the website header. Are those word balloons perhaps word spheres, and the letters extend inside of them? Also, a domain name extension definitely needs to be appended, lest consumers think we are a book, magazine, or perhaps some sort of custom Ouija board, designed to illuminate video game strategies.


 * I do, however, like that Triforce ad. If anyone knows their way around POVray of Blender3d, they could probably render a pretty nice looking Triforce, and superimpose it upon a white background with black text, thus creating a low cost as well as attractive poster. One thing though. No more Times New Roman, okay? --blendmaster 10:37, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * As I said, my work is strictly conceptual, and should in now way be used as a final product. I leave it to more skillful artists such as yourself or Teddy to make more professional looking versions of what I did.  Procyon (Talk) 12:47, 19 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Here is a two color poster ( I do like that shade of blue ). However, I kinda borrowed-without-permission the robot model, so it's not final. The small text can be safely ignored as well. --blendmaster 13:37, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * What is it with that shade of blue? Is the gamma different on my monitor, because that is almost blinding me. :-\ However, I do like it, although the text could use some hyphens and correct capitalisation. --DrBob (Talk) 15:53, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * This is my black and white poster submission. Enjoy. Tedbradford 21:23, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think you need "StrategyWiki" twice at the top; the ".org" could just be below the logo (which looks nice, btw). Perhaps the text could mention we're not just plain-text, or that we're a wiki? And WTF is a "thwart", other than a verb?? --DrBob (Talk) 15:53, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I think advertising that we're not plaintext is speaking to the wrong crowd. If these posters are meant to be posted in public places, why are we advertising the the GameFAQs crowd? There's a chance that many gamers don't even know what GameFAQs is--but that doesn't mean we don't want them to visit. I think the only thing we need to mention in our ads is that the purpose of the site is for videogame guides. echelontalk 17:39, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I must disagree. We're advertising to gamers (the only people who would want walkthroughs and stuff). Pretty much all gamers have heard of GameFAQs and similar sites, so we should (at least in passing, and probably not directly) differentiate ourselves from them. --DrBob (Talk) 18:33, 21 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I halfway agree with DrBob. Most gamers do know the GameFAQs brand, but no doubt some are still conned into buying printed strategy guides. "Free guides" is good marketing. Myself, I kind of like the "Wikipedia for game walkthroughs" angle. Although the main point is that we're editable by anyone, the comparison also suggests we have a damn lot of content. Not a bad suggestion, for sure. --blendmaster 11:52, 22 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I personally feel that it is best to have multiple posters with different "themes" anyway. We could have a "Wikipedia for game walkthroughs" theme, "death of plain text" theme, and maybe even a "be bold" theme.  We don't necessarily have to stick to one thing only.-- Duke  Ruckley  10:34, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Zelda Partnership
This was a thought to have a partnership with ZeldaWiki. Did this ever get finished? -- Prod (Talk) 14:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * They seem to be linking to us already (see infobox), so I think we should get some sort of partnership going (unless this has already been done?). --DrBob (Talk) 14:54, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * There seems to be no record of such a partnership anywhere on the site, plus it was added by an anon (125.238.138.145) on April 8th, and then slightly modified by another anon (24.57.132.221) on April 21st. No registered users took part in the modification of their game template. However, a sysop (Adamcox82) made a comment on the talk page for The Legend of Zelda NES, and is seemingly in favor of linking to us. Therefore, it seems no official partnership was ever discussed. -- 18:03, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm going to solidify this, Bulbapedia-style. It'll be worthwhile for us in that I think I can get us some better recognition there (and extra Google credit), plus it will help them out with incoming traffic too. echelontalk 21:31, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, and I always felt a Triforce external link icon would be really cool, too... I'll work on one once I find out how big it should be. -- 10:24, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I just talked with Jason (their webmaster) about this deal, and he seems enthusiastic about it. I think we may eventually be able to do more cross-promotion for each other than what has come of the Bulbapedia deal. As you can already see, I've uploaded the logo he gave me (sorry Ryan--I guess you could still make one though) and added it to the css. I've tested it out in a couple of places, usually where a term appears first or a link might be most useful. What do you guys think? We might also be able to make something that functions in a way similar to Template:Wikipedia in some instances. I don't know if that would be overkill though. Any thoughts? echelontalk 23:44, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It might be good to include on the front page, but it depends how many links that we get in return. If all they are doing is linking to us in their infobox, then the inlines are good enough. If they do more, then the box on the front page might be in order. Oh, and how's [[Image:Zwlink2.png]] as the link image? It's 15x15 so it won't be cropped when it's used as the link image (like the current 16x16 one is). -- 08:40, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * That blends in with the background a little too much, I think. --DrBob (Talk) 13:49, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Dan added some interwiki links ZW: and ZeldaWiki: to make linking easier. :) -- Prod (Talk) 20:27, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Shortcuts
I don't think this was solved. The reason for it has something to do with adding items to the toolbox instead of tabs. Not sure how difficult it is to solve. -- Prod (Talk) 20:02, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Going mainstream
Bringing this up again since we've finished more steps. -- Prod (Talk) 20:14, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) (done) Set up the website, get the admins, basic stuff.
 * 2) (done) Tell people how to use the site. Essentially, have enough documentation so that within 10 minutes they can start editing, but easily find more in depth info after (or at least some direction).
 * 3) (done) Set up a good amount of background guides which follow the policy and are good examples of how to continue other guides.  Having one main example is good, but we should probably have a few that show different aspects of what can be done.
 * 4) Plan a specific opening date.  Get lots of advertisement (probably should have a page with suggestions for this).  Plan some kind of event for that day (abxy should be able to help with that).
 * 5) (done, good number of sysops) Make sure there are proper controls so that if we do get a lot of people, there are ways for us to make sure things stay under control.
 * 6) By getting lots of people around the same time, it will show how active the site is, and it will help the any ratings that require a huge jump to become notable (ie. Alexa.com).  To this effect, I might suggest allowing anonymous edits for a few weeks around that time, depending on how bad vandalism is.  Once people are hooked they may be more willing to register (just my opinion).
 * 7) Profit!!! A new layout would be great to release at this time.  Something to show that the site is going from "Beta" to "Official".

Endorse Firefox?
Not really a topic about endorsing firefox, but what issues are there with the other browsers? -- Prod (Talk) 20:20, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Lots. :-P We should try to support them all, but I certainly wouldn't be against putting a Firefox link in the footer. --DrBob (Talk) 03:39, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The main one that we HAVE to keep standardized is the div widths. IE cannot have the widths add up to 100% while other browsers can, thus when we have 3 columns, it's 33% each.  Now that I think about it, I'm not sure about using 25%, I thought it worked at one point, but if someone can find me a ToC with four columns, please post a link so I can test.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 12:28, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Pokémon Gold and Silver/Table of Contents--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:51, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * As I've said before, IE should be able to have the widths add up to 100%, but only if there are no paddings and margins interfering, because its box model is b0rked. --DrBob (Talk) 17:16, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Regular "staff" (IRC) meetings
Topic says it all. Plenty of discussion, no actual result. -- Prod (Talk) 20:23, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Everyone needs to get in touch with me ASAP. I have something to discuss concerning our meetings. echelontalk 00:58, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I should clairfy. Please email me or get in touch via AIM when you can. It's to discuss a meeting we'll be holding this upcoming Saturday at noon EST, and I want to give each of you various topics to consider before then. echelontalk 16:27, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * So, seemingly the meeting occured. What the rest of us mere mortals want to know, what were the resolutions, and are there any logs of the discussions?  I think I stumbled upon the log a while ago, but the computer crashed before it could fully load.--Froglet 19:55, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The logs were meant to be put on the staff lounge talk but they're not there, any1 help as i had to leave and came in halfway through?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 03:35, 5 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The logs can be found at Meetings. -- Prod (Talk) 09:00, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

StrategyWiki Forum
Once again, topic says it all, lots of discussion, no result. -- Prod (Talk) 21:44, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * We're going to do this, but we have to discuss the short-term implementation details. I do not want a hack. echelontalk 00:57, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The phpBB forums aren't really a hack, but they do have limitations. A nice thing about them though is that you can put in an extension that lets you share the user database with the wiki. -- 11:19, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * phpBB is spaghetti code, and I refuse to use any of their software. :-/ We'll find another option. We may have to code our own. Anyway, this will be discussed I suspect this upcoming Saturday at noon EST in an IRC #strategywiki meeting we're holding. echelontalk 16:25, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

"Getting started" vs. "How to play"
From what I can tell, we ended with "Getting Started", but I still see some with "Basics", "How to play" and other inconsistencies. I have a feeling there are too many opinions for this to reach a proper consensus, but lets try again. -- Prod (Talk) 21:56, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I always liked Getting Started best because it denotes information just for noobs and such, it's like the stuff you'd find in the game manual and additional game features explained (that's for the getting started page itself). Then the sub pages under that ToC heading all make sense because it's like basic information.  I just don't like using the term basic and Getting Started is like BAM hey noobs, read this.  How to Play is too specific to like, doing things.  Getting Started gives us a general term that lets us explain things beyond playing the game (i.e. controls/mechanics) like characters, background info, etc.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 12:36, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
 * ^-- Agreed. --DrBob (Talk) 17:18, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Games that begin with "The"
Only thing decided was that it doesn't belong on the ToC page. Should we still add it to the main game page? Anyone know anything about the ability to have it named with the "The" at the end in the category lists? The only possible way I can think of right now (which I am highly against) is renaming those games with the "The" on the end. -- Prod (Talk) 21:59, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Header Capitalization
I think its time we standardized our headers. I prefer all words to have capitalized first letters, but I'm also ok with words like an, the, and the like to be lowercase. What I don't like is having headers like "In the dungeon," since there's no punctuation at the end. Having the caps makes it more like a title, which is what its function is. Agree, disagree? Once decided, info needs to be appended to the using wikimarkup page of the guide, as well as any others that discuss it. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 10:13, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I definitely agree. Looks more aesthetic. echelontalk 23:29, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

You may want to look at this
has been nominated for adminship. Please check out his nomination page and fill in what you think of him. -- 13:51, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Priorities - What types are there?
For the TODO lists, we need to specify a priority for them. But shouldn't TODO lists on game guides all be the same (i.e. priority=Additions or something along those lines)? The only priority type I know of is personal - for user pages. We need a list of types and we need to put it on the TODO template page for easy reference. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 09:58, 23 July 2007 (CDT)
 * You may want to check out Todo priority. -- 10:35, 23 July 2007 (CDT)
 * So I moved the info out where people will actually see it. The question now is how do we want the numbers to work and in what order?  Does priority 1 mean "These tasks are our number one priority?"  Or does it mean "These tasks are of the lowest priority?"  How do we classify them?  1-9?  We have a 1-4 scale for completion, should it mimic that instead?  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 00:46, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think priorities are required for the todo's themselves. Each todo is for the game itself and there is no way to say one game is more important than another.  I would say "priority" should be changed to "category" (ie. personal, project, etc.). -- Prod (Talk) 19:43, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah I don't like number rankings because they don't mean anything. But my suggestions are like Prod's, make them just the same as the type of article they accompany:
 * Personal -> User/User page.
 * Project -> Project portal (cleanup, collaboration, etc.).
 * Game -> Game article.
 * Category -> Category pages.
 * --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 14:16, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Wiki Merger
I've recently stumbled across a Gears of War wiki and discovered that they had a complete walkthrough, among other things, for Gears of War. Since they are GFDL, we could technically just transwiki everything over, but 92 articles and 51 images is a lot. Therefore, I am proposing that we offer to them that they merge their content into our site. Before I bring it up with their community/webmaster, however, I would like to hear what you all think about this. -- 18:23, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm guessing they'd say no, but please try anyways. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 00:30, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't propose that we merge their content; propose that we merge their community (+content) in. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 12:51, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Oh! Dango! Jam
THe guide someone was making was removed, but he posted the link on the site where a lot of us found the game, and I decided to create an account to appeal. I wouldn't be able to make the guide, but if he is still around, I think it would be a good addition.

It's not commercial, or made by a big name company, but it has a lot of players, and has enough to it that a strategy guide would be useful.

The game is a fighting game with mini pixel characters. each character has its own moves, and you can customize what stats you level up, and can change characters by defeating them enough to get their item.

I want it to be allowed, not to advertise it, but for people who already play it. Someone mentioned the reason its for bigger games, was to not make it an advertising agency and that would be bad, but the site I go to probably has 100s if not more people seeing it already, so it doesn't need advertising I think. I just want to be able to read up on strategies for beating the different characters and character building (as I'm mostly pumping stats into attack, and just rushing the enemies hoping I don't get hit.) - --Elk (Talk)


 * Would you please post a link to that site? I'd like to see it for myself.-- Duke  Ruckley  15:25, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Dukeruckley: it can be found at . Anyway, seeing that it does seem to have a decently-sized player based for the game to be worth it, I say go for it (of course, a mention of it in English also helped, just found that today on Google). Elk, the deleted content can be easily restored, so if the consensus here is to allow it to have a guide, I'll bring back all of the old content that was deleted. I would definitely like to state right now that this is not a blanket case for all web games. Each game's merits will have to be evaluated individually before inclusion should be allowed if it is a free web game by a non-major gaming company. -- 15:31, 27 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I actually played it the other day and was nauseated by the amount of time I felt compelled to play with it :P Purely on the basis that it seems to have a large number of players, I say what the heck, it can't hurt us, and it might attract some more attention.  Anytime we can be the very first English guide to a foreign game is a plus in my book.  Procyon (Talk) 22:43, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Names of species, capitalized or not?
I say no. In a lot of our guides we say, Metroids, Geemers, etc. But that's not grammatically correct - we wouldn't say Dogs or Cats... Races are fine, like by faction or region, but creatures, no. Anyone disagree? We need to put these changes into the mispellings project page, or sub page, or... yeah we need to sort that out as well. How about we have a project subpage for each guide that goes over spelling specific to it? Pokemon, Metroid, etc. all have their peculiarities. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 12:39, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * True, we don't say Dogs or Cats, but that's because that's only the species name. All of those enemies you've mentioned are the names of the enemies themselves, making them proper nouns, and therefore should be capitalized. Otherwise we'd have to switch all mentions of Bradon Suit with brandon suit, and I'm not sure Echelon would like that :P. Basically, even though that is the name of the species, it is also the enemy's proper name, and therefore should be capitalized. -- 13:35, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Woah there, hold up, let me quote Wikipedia on this one (referenced too): "Proper nouns (also called proper names) are nouns representing unique entities (such as London or John), as distinguished from common nouns which describe a class of entities (such as city or person)." Thus what you are saying is that even though I kill a thousand metroids, they are all the Metroid.  What I'm saying is that that they are not unique.  Kraid and Motherbrain are unique, which is why they have capitalized names; but not species.  Motherbrain is a brain, not a Brain.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:44, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * However, if you were arguing race, then perhaps we have a problem. I don't know the answer to this one, and I'm going to bring it up on the talk page of the noun page, but on all animal pages, the taxonomy/kingdoms crap are all capitalized.  I.e. Notostraca, Triops, Crustacea.  This decision is going to take some time... --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:49, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The reason that the words dog and cat aren't capitalized is because the creatures are mundane in our world. If the characters from, say, StarCraft are writing about Zerglings they wouldn't capitalize it because they're a common sight in their world, but we should because we're talking about them in a guide about that world (I should say game). They're fictious creatures, so I think that would make them proper nouns. I could have worded all that better :P, but anyway I think the names should be capitalized. Baejung92 21:16, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * What about Dragons and Orcs? I haven't met one of those in quite a while. Declaration: Capitalizing nouns is old timey. 1600s old timey. Ahem:
 *  A mischievous  Metroid is a Director of Discontent. A Leech, in quality, and a Hyena, in countenance: her cry is a Curse, her word a Threat, her attack Death. She is the adventurer's Peril, the speed runner's Strife, and the save point's Resolution. (The Metroid Enchridion 637)
 * The prosecution rests. --  blendmaster | talk  ]] 22:29, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * We broke that tradition long ago. Modern English doesn't do that.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:35, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * You've hit the nail directly on the head, my good chap. --  blendmaster | talk  ]] 14:04, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * hi guyz loll wats this captialisation thing u got????? lol!!!!!!11 echelontalk 23:27, 5 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'd worry more about ^that type of stuff. This seems completely like a matter of stylistic preference. :P echelontalk 23:27, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

Thumbnail size standardization/policy
Recently Procyon or Prod informed me that thumbnails get resized as to user preference (which I have now customized to my liking). Thus, when using thumbnails shouldn't we forget about using the #px parameter? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:37, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly sure the thumbnail sizing would only affect thumbnails that lack the width parameter. Regardless, a lot of people don't sign up or don't change that setting, so for them the images will still appear as intended. GarrettTalk 18:03, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm all for dropping the "*px" parameter; I've never used it, and I've removed it from every guide I've cleaned up if it's been used in conjunction with "thumb". --DrBob (Talk) 18:17, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, once logged in it doesn't make a difference, and the default size is good enough for it, so I'd say drop it. If at all possible, we should have any image that uses the #px or #em (as em is accepted with thumbs as well, I believe) be categorized in some category so a bot can take care of removing them. -- 18:36, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Garrett, yeah. What I'm saying is "DROP THE WIDTH PARAMETER ON THUMBNAILS!"  We don't need it.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 19:18, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Time out... I need it. It's really valuable for maps.  I use it through Pokemon RBY and Link to the Past.  NMH, I mentioned that for you because you were slamming some thumbs to 150px, and that seemed to be your "default" size, so all I meant was let the user settings determine the default size.  I did compliment you on your choice of selecting certain key screenshots to be 250px.  It's up to you if you want to keep that or not, but I choose very specific thumb widths for a lot of maps.  So I would say if all you're thumbing are screenshots, leave the width parameter out.  If it's something else, and you have a valid reason for setting it, we shouldn't take that ability away.  Procyon (Talk) 22:14, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I think what people need to understand is the difference between thumbnails, and images in general. Images are only thumbnails if you use the "thumb" parameter; and if they're a thumbnail, I think you shouldn't set a specific size for them. If they're not thumbnails, then setting a size is fine (or they'll consume all the space they can). --DrBob (Talk) 04:37, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Piggy-backing on DrBob's point, there are regular images, frames, and thumbs. An image can be resized, but you don't get a caption.  A frame gives you a caption, but can't be resized.  I tend to go with thumbs because you get the best of both features.  You can resize it, and you can give it a caption, which tends to be useful for labeling maps. Procyon (Talk) 08:57, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The thumbnail size parameter is a feature, not a bug. There's no point standardizing it apart from a few places.  Boxart I think is set to 250px, but other than that it's up to the writer.  Every policy has to be policed, and a policy like this could go wrong quite easily. -- Prod (Talk) 22:22, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
 * And this is why I started the discussion. At the time I couldn't think of any reason why we would need to specify it, even on large pictures like the maps of LTTP, but yeah I see that they are good and that we need it for stuff like boxart, etc.  Now, as Procyon says and I totally agree with, "I would say if all you're thumbing are screenshots, leave the width parameter out."  Excuse me for being so rash with my words, I didn't really mean "cut it out;" I was just forgetting where it becomes useful.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:53, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
For roughly the past month, I have been working tirelessly to complete this guide, and I think that tonight, I can finally say that it's done. The way I ended up working on it was quite funny actually. I was sitting the IRC channel, and I sarcastically asked what I should work on next (because I always have a laundry list of games I want to get to,) when Garrett suggest A Link to the Past, a guide that he started a while back. At first I thought the idea was funny, but since it's one of my all time favorite SNES games, I figured why not, so I got started on it. I would say that what you see tonight is the final result.

Unlike with Pokémon Red and Blue, I wasn't just shooting to construct a model guide, but rather to create the first guide that might be eligible for the distinction of being at level 5 completion. Unlike a level 4 completion which is pretty thorough, but not without some small room for improvement, a level 5 guide is one that you could not possibly add something to it and greatly enhance it. As we discussed some time ago, level 5 guides need to be voted upon. I don't know if everyone will agree that LttP is at level 5 yet. People may feel that it still needs work. It definitely needs proof reading. Since I've been using Firefox 2.0 my spelling error rate has dropped substantially (thank you Mozilla), but what it doesn't catch is when I mistype one word with another correctly spelled word (such as if I meant "through" but I typed "though"). So I really need people to analyze the writing and look for obvious mistakes.

Anyway, the point of this long winded message is to kick off the level 5 voting procedure. I suppose we could copy the format used for sys-op nominations. I just fear that someone like DrBob or Skizzerz is better suited to take care of that than I. But I'd also like to get people's opinions on the matter as well. Thanks very much to the usual suspects for their tremendous support. Procyon (Talk) 20:12, 8 August 2007 (CDT)