StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal

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Discussion archives:
 * Issue 1

Guide completeness designation
I think it would be really good to have icons (as in the ones WikiBooks has) to specify guide completion levels. It could aid in identifying the guides that need the most immediate work. Would you all agree? I'm thinking of adding it to the all_games_nav template as an optional parameter. On that note, are there any logical tags for templtaes? --Echelon 21:14, 18 January 2006 (PST)
 * I've added your "complete" indicator to a version of my All_Game_Nav template at Template:P/aniki - you can see it in place on Shenmue/Characters. The one issue I could see with this is that you'd have to change the variable on every page if you want to implement them in that way. I guess you could just put it on the index page for the guide, though. --aniki21 03:57, 19 January 2006 (PST)
 * I tried furiously last night to figure out how to work optional parameters in templates, but the syntax only works in MediaWiki 1.6--which isn't even released. I tried all kinds of "alternative" methods, but in the end nothing worked. I suggest we leave All_Game_Nav alone and create a new version that requires the completeness indicator, perhaps All_Game_Nav2 or something. And yes, I would also recommend adding this only to the front pages of guides. --Echelon 17:56, 19 January 2006 (PST)
 * Check out Wikipedia's Infobox CVG template. It uses optional parameters, BUT the "word=" part must still be inserted every time you use the template. GarrettTalk 20:44, 19 January 2006 (PST)
 * I've adjusted Template:P/aniki again a little - like Garrett says, you still need to put the "num=" in, but if you leave it blank it automatically puts in the 0p image. It's in place on the Shenmue/Table of Contents page for now. --aniki21 02:33, 20 January 2006 (PST)

Possible collaboration with vgmaps ?
Vgmaps has a lot of the gigantic maps of games like the legend of zelda: link to the past and other topview or sidescroller games and it might be useful to have some parts of the maps on strategy guides if strategy wiki ever does old games like that. Im not affiliated with Vgmaps, im just suggesting.

-- blendmaster


 * The main problem with this is to what degree we can push our "fair use" claims by hosting what might equate to up to 50% of the game's tile content. The second is that these people have contributed their maps to the site probably expecting it to be the only site hosting them, so I assume we'd have to contact each of them individually as well. Personally I'd prefer we restrict it to maps that help demonstrate a secret or solution, such as this. GarrettTalk 12:22, 16 January 2006 (PST)


 * I'd have to agree with Garrett in that maps should only be used when absolutely necessary. Otherwise, we're just wasting the reader's time, bandwidth, and being redundant. One thing I am already concerned with is that I may have gone overboard with the images in the Zelda guide already. We should probably all peer review the first crop of completed guides so we get a feel of what exactly works and what doesn't--we need to know when we're going beyond what is necessary. --Echelon 21:07, 18 January 2006 (PST)


 * The only thing I'd say about the number of images in the OoT guide is that I'd be afraid people might expect that to be the norm after reading it - especially after it's being pushed as the "example" for multi-page guides. The GBA, N64, SNES and other consoles all have easily-accessible emulators that can be used for screenshots, but games for newer consoles like the X360 or even as old as the Dreamcast aren't as easy to get running on a PC, so getting screenshots that are a) relevant to the section and b) don't have watermarks is going to be extremely difficult. --aniki21 04:01, 19 January 2006 (PST)


 * I came across VGMaps yesterday, and my first thought was that it could be a useful resource for SW. I agree with Garrett that it should only be for solutions and what not, but it is definitely a resource to consider. What does everyone else think? --Irish Ninja 22:35, 16 January 2006 (PST)


 * VGMaps seems, on first glance, to cover mostly sidescrolling games. No offence to anyone, but the directions for those are pretty simple - run from left to right, occasionally jumping. Their maps for Zelda are pretty useful (although some could be cropped down a little), but how many sidescrolling games are really going to need a map? --aniki21 02:36, 17 January 2006 (PST)


 * If VGMaps would be willing to release their works to us for unlimited use, we could definitely use them, otherwise we'll have to make our own images. The reason for this is that I'm not sure if verbatim copying would be alright. This would save us a lot of time and effort, if we could use them. As Aniki said, however, we shouldn't use maps where they are not required for clarification. There is such a thing as overdoing it. --Echelon 05:34, 18 January 2006 (PST)

Templates?
How much do we want to use templates? I've made a couple that I've been using on my Shenmue guide - mainly the Template:All_Game_Nav template that I made to make a more consistent header navigation across all multi-page games. I threw together Template:ConsoleInfo and Template:Company templates for those pages as well; they've not got a lot of information on them at the moment, but I figured we don't need a lot about either, since this is a games wiki rather than a hardware one. --Aniki21 06:13, 16 January 2006 (PST)


 * The All_Game_Nav template was sheer genius. Considering how many navigation templates would probably be created if someone didn't come up with it, great job on that. The ConsoleInfo and Company templates are really great too. I'd use them, and have already started implementing the All_Game_Nav template. --Hack 09:31, 16 January 2006 (PST)
 * Why, thank you. :"D It seemed like a much easier thing to implement at this early stage than trying to do it months down the line when we have hundreds of FAQs each with a different *_Nav template taking up database space. --aniki21 04:05, 17 January 2006 (PST)
 * Much appreciated! :) It's a brilliant idea that will save us from fixing our mistakes down the road. --Echelon 05:35, 18 January 2006 (PST)
 * Hm, nice indeed! I wonder if it should have links to other common things though, like Cheats and Glitches or something. Things that every guide will have a page on anyway. GarrettTalk 11:56, 18 January 2006 (PST)

Console Naming Convention
Looking at the Categories page, it looks to me like we're lacking a clear naming policy for consoles. My concern is that the systems will not have consistent names; some systems will have the name of the company that developed it prefixed (for example, Sony PlayStation) and some will not (for example, simply PlayStation). Unfortunately this is a somewhat confusing issue because so many people are used to saying the full, developer-prefixed name of the system.

I personally think that we should avoid prefixing the company name wherever possible. There are some systems for which it is obviously appropriate, like on many Nintendo Systems ("Nintendo Entertainment System", "Super Nintendo Entertainment System", "Nintendo 64"), but if the name is recognizable enough without the company name, we should drop it, leaving for example names like "Genesis" or "PlayStation 3".

Please let me know what you think. --Doozer 17:06, 10 January 2006 (PST)


 * Systems should have a "long name" for category and a "short name" for disambiguation. Nintendo 64 and N64, Nintendo DS and NDS, Playstation 2 and PS2. So on and so forth... --Echelon 17:52, 10 January 2006 (PST)


 * But should that be "Sony PlayStation 2" or just "PlayStation 2"? :P --Doozer 19:34, 11 January 2006 (PST)


 * It should probably be PlayStation 2. We can drop the names Sony, and Microsoft. Nintendo and Sega seem to be the only ones who actually tack their company names onto the actual system. --Hack 19:56, 11 January 2006 (PST)


 * I think the Systems just should have the most reconizable name (NES, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Nintendo DS...)

 I also think the systems should be under who makes them (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) and shouldn't be separated into handhelds and normal consoles! Here are some systems your missing:

Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Atari 7800 (you have atari but there was never an "Atari" console, there are more, but im not getting into the neddy gritty unless you want me to) Sega Saturn, Sega CD, Sega 32X PC! and if its "sega dreamcast" then it should be "sega game gear" '

I also think we should have a little info about each system (year released, blah)

--User:XfollowthereaperX 1:00, 14 January 2006 (PST)
 * I've put together a (very basic) ConsoleInfo template for the console pages. There's not a lot of info on it, but I didn't think we'd need much else - this is a games wiki, not a hardware one after all. --Aniki21 10:10, 15 January 2006 (PST)

Art/Screenshot of the Week
Feel free to suggest. Upload all of your candidates and post them on the talk page for Main_Page. --Echelon 02:47, 8 January 2006 (PST)

Series Guide?
Should there be guides for game series (Zelda, Final Fantasy, Warcraft...)?
 * I think so. It remains to be seen how we'll accomplish this, however. I'll be working on Ocarina of Time first, followed by Majora's Mask. At that time I'll find a way to link the Zelda games together. --Echelon 13:25, 7 January 2006 (PST)


 * Perhaps we should think of incorporating Wikipedia entries for the game series in some fashion? Either a link or the actual article might work. StrandOfLight 01:37, 8 January 2006 (PST)


 * While we're not an informational database on games (there's already a wiki just for that, and there's also wikipedia), we can incorporate any GFDL materials. I would suggest that we use what we can while still maintaining a mostly-strategy guides policy. Some background information can be nice, but let's not import purely informational articles about the history of, say, Mario Bros. At least that's my two cents. Echelon 02:10, 8 January 2006 (PST)
 * On that note, I recommend an "external links" section for single-page guides or "More information" page that includes "external links" for games in the book format.


 * Ooo I like colons. Anywho, check out Final Fantasy or Zelda.  Are those what you're talking about?  You could always include extra pages relating to what links them all together, etc. -- ArlanKels
 * Or, have you seen the Wikipedia pages? Look at the bottom. I like how they do those series boxes. --Echelon 05:39, 18 January 2006 (PST)

Console Designation in Title?
Should there be a standard for including console names in game titles? There are often differences between the each console's edition, so perhaps we should create a Disambiguation page for each multiple-console title? Perhaps the title listing in every index page can link to the disambiguation, with "Title Name (Console)" for the actual item. If the differences are extremely minor, then perhaps a single guide page, and a separate "Differences" section or page. Thoughts? --StrandOfLight 01:55, 8 January 2006 (PST)
 * Yeah, this is most definitely what we shall be doing. If the differences are minor, there will only be an addition of a "versions" page. If the games are entirely different, however, they will be in the wikipedia-style disambiguation. Good to state it for the record. We should put this in our policy somewhere. --Echelon 02:05, 8 January 2006 (PST)
 * Aside from game controls, special moves (fighting games), and cheat codes; do any games actually exist where the plot is different from system to system?--RandomSkratch 14:28, 8 January 2006 (PST)
 * Sometimes a title can be deceiving. Note many movie- and TV-licensed games appear on many consoles including handhelds. King Kong is one example. The Game Boy Advance version of that is most certainly different from the Xbox 360 version. We should have one guide for each version of the game that is distinct enough from the other guides to need completely new information. However, there are times when a game is mostly the same but not quite. Silent Hill 2 is one example; when it came out for the Xbox it had some additional content, if I remember correctly. That should be included in the "Silent Hill 2" guide but the fact that a section only applies to one version should be noted. --Doozer 20:47, 8 January 2006 (PST)
 * Should we implement this right away then, in terms of renaming all of the existing guides? Also, should we start recording this sort of policy in StrategyWiki policy pages? --StrandOfLight 19:35, 9 January 2006 (PST)
 * I just started Standardization. I won't be able to edit it until tomorrow afternoon, but by all means feel free to jump in. We need some standards in place. --Echelon 02:30, 10 January 2006 (PST)
 * The problem with this page, eche, is that what if different regions mean completely different games? And each game has multiple regions on different systems... Take DDR as an example. Dance Dance Revolution/Disambiguations --Sakurina 18:53, 11 January 2006 (PST)

Standards & Conventions
I think it's better to start addressing the issue of standards and conventions sooner rather than later. So, some of my initial suggestions: We should try to model information on Controls after a game's instruction booklet. Buttons should be in bold, and each function (if there is more than one) should be separated by a semicolon, with any side-notes about the control below and bulleted. See the Ocarina of Time page for a good example. Pictures should be relevant, important, and kept to a minimum. On the SSB.M page for example, the pictures of Mario, and Bowser crushing Kirby seem unnecessary to me, and they both have poor, uninformative captions. We should concentrate on informative pictures like maps first, I think. Objectivity needs to be kept in the guides while opinions like "Ness is the best character known to date" need to be kept out. Spelling and grammar need to be checked by everyone before they edit something, at least by just copying the text into MS Word and looking for any misspellings (that's what I do). Please also check capitalization of things like "Gold Skulltula." Although the strategy for the beginning of Ocarina of Time is more interesting to read than a simple "go here, do that", I think we should consider whether our primary purpose is to entertain, or provide useful information. Text like "but Link knows deep inside that this was not to be the happy day his friends would expect it to be" is unneeded and, even worse, is completely made up. No one knows what Link thinks, so don't write about it. -- Ashandarei 16:37, 8 January 2006 (PST)


 * Everything you bring up is very, very timely and couldn't have been better stated. The last statement was especially important, as that was more or less my fault. I'll get to work and address these issues, especially the editing standards which will need to be delt with ASAP. --Echelon 01:53, 9 January 2006 (PST)


 * On that first note: maybe we should develop an blank image of a controller have people use that template to make a image for Controls...because informative visuals are good. ;) --Spiritsnare Flux 07:16, 9 January 2006 (PST)
 * I would really like it if we did that. But we've got to find some good diagrams. --Echelon 11:44, 9 January 2006 (PST)
 * Perhaps we should use high quality scans of the controller diagrams in the manuals. A high-res scan, then clean it up in Photoshop/GIMP, and use it as a standard on all "Controls" pages.  I think it would also fly under | fair use laws. --StrandOfLight 19:48, 9 January 2006 (PST)
 * That would be great!! I can't get them myself, but three cheers to someone who does! What a teriffic way to do it. --Echelon 01:59, 10 January 2006 (PST)
 * Sounds good. There's already a vast number of scans at sites like http://www.replacementdocs.com and http://www.hqscans.org. You'd just need to extract the images with a PDF disassembler. It might also be beneficial to develop button graphics like these for cheats etc. rather than constantly writing out the textual equivalent. Garrett 13:23, 11 January 2006 (PST)
 * Regarding the controls layout, what about games which require more than one control system? For instance, Shenmue has different controls entirely while walking and fighting, and something like GTA:VC has different controls for different types of vehicles (aircraft vs regular cars or walking, for instance). It would seem unwieldy (not to mention heavy on bandwidth) to have several controller pictures labelled differently for these games. I know it's not going to be very common, but I'd still like it taken into consideration. --Aniki21 01:47, 13 January 2006 (PST)
 * And also on that note, things could get complicated further by multi-format titles with multiple control styles. Not to mention PC games. --Aniki21 02:23, 13 January 2006 (PST)

Developer Pages?
Do we want pages for developers/publishers and the like? Right now I don't think there are any, but I think it would be a necessary addition. --Poody
 * I think that's a great idea. I've been thinking of getting started on those but hadn't gotten around to it yet. If you want to begin making pages for publishers/studios then by all means please do! --Doozer 23:28, 8 January 2006 (PST)

Regarding copying from Wikibooks/Wikipedia
Hey, there's a little bit of a hitch here guys. The GFDL requires credit to be given, which you aren't currently doing. Please see the crediting examples on Wikibooks or Wikipedia for more on this. About also needs to be changed to reflect this.

Also I personally think it's silly to mirror content that another site already has editable; all you'll end up with is different improvements to the same source work on each wiki it's been copied to. Gameinfo in comparison merely crosslinks to the other wikis' guides.

Anyway, if you could clear that up that would be great. Thanks! Garrett 20:05, 10 January 2006 (PST)
 * I believe that the guides will receive much more attention - which they need, on Stategy Wiki. There is a dedicated team, all of whom are game enthusiasts, at Strategy Wiki whereas Wikibooks would not normally be a gamers hangout. Jackhynes 09:08, 11 January 2006 (PST)


 * I will get on this issue immediately by creating a template to show that a source comes from Wikibooks. In the end, I agree with both Garrett and Jack on certain issues. Garret stresses that it would be redundant to have two branches of the same source--I agree. Jack believes the guides will get more attention here--I also agree. Right now, I think I have a possible solution. I would say that we keep the wikibooks guides for the time being until StrategyWiki has established itself. Once we have done so, we may work on creating our own originals for the guides from Wikibooks. This is only a thought, but I think it addresses both issues. For now, I will merely apply the templates to denote the source of these guides. Thank you Garrett for letting this be known to us. --Echelon 12:16, 11 January 2006 (PST)


 * If you see an article that has been taken from Wikibooks, please use Template:Wikibooks --Echelon 12:22, 11 January 2006 (PST)


 * You're welcome. The issue of how sites should link to each other still needs to be addressed though, even if Wikibooks' content were permanently moved here. Hm. Garrett 13:26, 11 January 2006 (PST)


 * I have modified the template as I believe that reference/link to the GNU FDL is needed when using material from Wikibooks. (From the article on Wikibooks)
 * Use on the Internet


 * For specifics read: GNU Free Documentation License


 * 1. Mention Wikibooks as the source (not mandatory; but appreciated)
 * 2. Provide a functional link back to the Wikibooks book or Wikibooks module (this satisfies the author credit requirement of our license)
 * 3. State that the text is available under the GNU Free Documentation License
 * 4. Link to a copy of the GNU FDL license (preferably stored on your own server).
 * 5. Your version of the text must be machine readable (meaning you cannot prevent others from copying the text)


 * I just want to say that I also agree with Garett about problems with having two copies (it was my original argument against having a different guide for the same game on different platforms). Despite this I believe the guides at Wikibooks are contributed too far too seldom and lots of the information comes from a small number of users (i.e. Garett). Therefore the guides will not become stale here as they have at Wikibooks. Jackhynes 13:34, 11 January 2006 (PST)

Google Ads to help fund the site?
Wikicities has a Google Ads sidebar. You've already got this side area blank, so why not put some ads in there? No matter how small the income if they help keep the site afloat it's a Very Good Thing. Garrett 13:26, 11 January 2006 (PST)
 * Right now, I think we'll be okay. In the future, however, we'll see. I know that the TV IV Wiki had problems with funding, so they implemented Google ads. For now, I want to keep the pages ad-free. --Echelon 21:14, 12 January 2006 (PST)