StrategyWiki:Staff lounge

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Welcome to all users! This page is where people can ask StrategyWiki-related questions to the staff and senior community figures, and they will do their best to answer. If you want to raise a topic for discussion (rather than just ask about it), please use community issues instead. New issues are entered here, with the most recent at the bottom of the page. If your question does not pertain to editing StrategyWiki (i.e. asking for hints or game-specific information), please ask on the guide's talk page or on the forums.

Please review the Table of Contents to see if your issue has already been raised; also check the archives (to the right) in case it was discussed some time ago.

To facilitate ease of browsing and replying, please:
 * 1) Place your question at the bottom of the list
 * 2) Title the question (by placing the title between equals signs: ==title==)
 * 3) Sign your name and date (by adding two hyphens and four tildes: --~ )

Bottom of the Well Guide?
There isn't a specific guide that goes on past the Lens of Truth in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Notmyhandle has done some work, but I'm wondering if someone else is planning on working on it. --|Superpowered  Mario  22:06, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I'll get there in time. -- 06:14, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I would if I could, but I've only been doing makeshift edits, plus the fact that I never have decided to (and probably never will) venture the well that much.--|Superpowered  Mario  20:33, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem, the area is fairly easy anyways so I think anyone who has gotten this far already won't need much help (but we'll cover it anyways). -- 21:23, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Wii and Guitar Button Template Touches.
I've been also thinking about finishing updating images to complete it. Ever since the Wii Wheel, Wii Zapper and Wii Fits accessories (don't know that name), I expect someone to at least match up the images to it. Not much really but just need to match up the B button on Wii Wheel and Wii Zapper and having simple signs on the Wii Fit game. The Guitar Template on the other hand is empty. It's impossible to think that all the buttons on are there when it's not. Well if anyone's up besides me with no experience on images can do this part then I will be grateful. I presume they're not going to do it but it won't hurt to give it a try. Lastly I believe it will take a month to make those images but that's my best estimate. Johnnyauau2000 13:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

New Template
I've created a new template (The Sims 2 object) for objects in The Sims 2 and I need someone to go over and check that I've done everything right. I'd like to start adding this template to the obejct pages that exist but there might be some problems with the template so if someone could first go over it and then get back to me so that I can start adding the template or if someone else can help adding it then that would be much appreciated.Sims2Guy 07:32, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks OK to me. :-) --DrBob (talk) 11:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Right, I've started to add the template for pages that have object profiles and it would be a great help if some people started to add it as well. This is a list of all pages that need the template added.

Pages that have been done have a strike through them. If some people start to help, that will be much appreciated.Sims2Guy 00:37, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Comfort/Dining Chairs
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Comfort/Living Chairs
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Comfort/Recliners
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Comfort/Sofas and Loveseats
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Comfort/Beds
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Decorative/Sculptures
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Decorative/Wall Hangings
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Decorative/Miscellaneous
 * The Sims 2/Buy Mode/Hobbies/Creativity
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Comfort
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Surfaces
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Decorative
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Plumbing
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Electronics
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Lighting
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Hobbies
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Miscellaneous
 * The Sims 2: Nightlife/Other
 * The Sims 2: Open for Business/Decoration
 * The Sims 2: Open for Business/Hobbies
 * The Sims 2: Open for Business/Other
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Comfort
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Surfaces
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Decorative
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Appliances
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Electronics
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Lighting
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Hobbies
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Miscellaneous
 * The Sims 2: FreeTime/Other
 * Updated. All done! - naj zere 22:53, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Newbi make booboo
I made a Template:NGP while I didn't know what I was doing, and I'm hoping someone will take a look at it. Plus I didn't categorize the following images and don't know how to fix that. (they should be categorized as Fighter Portraits). --Blue Phoenix 16:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Image:Portrait SVCMM Haohmaru.png‎
 * Image:Portrait SVCMM Iori.png‎
 * Image:Portrait SVCMM Kyo.png‎
 * Image:Portrait SVCMM Leona.png‎
 * Image:Portrait SVCMM Mai.png‎
 * Image:Portrait SVCMM Nakoruru.png‎
 * Image:Portrait SVCMM Ryo.png‎
 * Image:Portrait SVCMM Terry.png‎


 * As long as it works, what's the problem? Have you tested it? I added the switch statement to help. Also take a look at the changes I've made to your post to make it more compact and display correctly.-- 00:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Note, the categorization requested here has been completed. -- 08:54, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

The Godfather content.
I hate to say this but I have no experience adding extra pages to this game. What I want to do is really two things ... if any of you own a Wii, you know what I expect. I'm sure you know already about the corrupt cop hit that is an addition to this game. Maybe you can improvise on that. Also this game can't do without some sort of strategy for going into all four compounds. The simple deal is how about setting up the pages and I'll do the rest since my strength sometimes work there. If you have spare time, I hope you can reshape all the control areas and also add the PC version if you have the chance. I just wish I know how to do that but that's just me. Help me as soon as you can. Johnnyauau2000 08:04, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * By "adding extra pages to this game", do you really mean "adding pages to the table of contents"? To "add" a page to a game, all you do is create it (i.e. either type the page name in the address bar of your browser, OR make a red link, like New page, and then click on the red link and create the new page). To add a page to the table of contents, all you do is add a link to the page on the table of contents page (you can access this page from the link in the header nav of every page, or again, just append "/Table of Contents" to the end of your URL when viewing the main page of a guide). What do you mean "reshape all the control areas"; change the controls page? -- 08:54, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

The truth is it's getting much harder to understand such simple tasks like shooting a gun and doing hand to hand combat. That's how I see the page today. As for adding pages to the table of contents, I could get totally lost doing this. What I mean is if I did a new page but I keep forgetting what the pages are for than I'm lost. If you understand what I mean than I hope my point is clear. Johnnyauau2000 09:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * That's how you see what page? So if you're confused or whatever, why not just tell me what page to make for you? Plus, if you're just being forgetful, the titles of the pages describe their content. I understand what you say, but it seems more like a personal problem than something that I can help you with. -- 18:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

True that it's a personal problem but I have no-one else to turn to so this is my only choice. Let's go step by step. If I want to go into the compound, what title should work for it once I put into the table of contents? I still don't have any thoughts at the time so help me out on this. Johnnyauau2000 04:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC) By the way, the page I was talking about is about using the controller in different consoles. Only Xbox360 and the Wii is there and could've been redone in a way that would save a lot of effort. Johnnyauau2000 06:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I have never played The Godfather game, but you could make a page called "Compound" or a section called Compound and then a page under it called "Entry." If the game has a name or chapter for it or something, that would be better. For controls, see Control selector. -- 06:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm slowly getting the idea. It's actually right in front of me because I was wondering if there was a link to the "Table of Contents". Anyway, don't worry about the hitman, the corrupt police officer that's been added to the Wii. It will take too long to add them in if I have to search through my memory. Instead, I'll leave it as a small reference on the main page of the article. Johnnyauau2000 07:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

need for speed most wanted for psp
i have a ps and have just got the game need for speed most wanted for it. i would like to kno if there is any way u could let me know how to put the bounse parts on my car in the game? i just started playing the psp so im very new at this if u mite not be able to help can u seggest some one that can? i called the game stop and they dont know how to niether.

thank you for your time. chris whore_man420@yahoo.com


 * I don't think any of the admins have this game. It looks like there are no real active authors for that game, so I'm guessing that no one can help you at this time. Also, if you want a response, come back here; there's no need to email you. Did you mean bonus parts of your car? Or bounce parts? bounse isn't a word... -- 06:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Toolbox
How can I edit the Toolbox on my user page? I'm trying to add a "Najzere's Pages" section. Thanks, - naj zere 13:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how NMH or Skizzerz does it, but you can check out my page for how to hardcode it.-- Duke Ruckley Talk 16:10, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I copied Ryan's templates; I think he made them so that the code on his actual user page would be minimized. Plus, it looks kinda cool as an extension of the Toolbox. -- 17:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * For mine, use and  to build each of the respective items. Check the docs on each page for syntax, etc. if you want to use that. For an example, see User:Ryan Schmidt/UserNav (that's the one that I use and transclude onto each of my user pages). -- 21:24, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks all! - naj zere 06:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Whoops, need some more help. I used the two templates in my UserNav page, now I just need to know what transcluding is and how it's done. Thanks, - naj zere 06:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Transclusion is the process of showing or using the content of one page on another page, without having the data saved to the page itself. It's how templates work; except transclusion can be used on any page (templates just have a special namespace for organization). You would thus put the following on the pages that you want your custom nav to appear: -- 08:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, - naj zere 16:19, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

--how to get army base to grow in sim city 2000-
question ... how do i get army base to grow in simcity 2000 ? user name borntobroil reply at borntobroil@hotmail.com 10/10/08
 * You'd be better off asking on our forums. --DrBob (talk) 23:19, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Verbose SNK names
I think the folder names for many SNK fighters are too exact. Instead of Fatal Fury: King of Fighters, it should be moved to Fatal Fury or Fatal Fury 1 and only have the subtitles in the pages themselves. Other examples include: Blue Phoenix 23:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * For what benefit? Our policy is to go by the official names of the games, and redirect the alternative names and misspellings to the proper page. -- Prod (Talk) 00:19, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Prod. This policy is in place to ensure the accuracy of information.  The last two games in your list of examples speaks directly to that point.  I personally know why you chose the fighting game to be called SNK vs. Capcom and the card game to be called something else, but someone else may disagree with you.  With such a policy, there can be no argument what the guide should be called.  At the same time, Blue Phoenix, I highly encourage you to create as many appropriate redirects as you feel necessary.  Fatal Fury should redirect to Category:Fatal Fury (which I just fixed), but Fatal Fury 3 should (and better) redirect to Fatal Fury 3: Road to the Final Victory, likewise with Art of Fighting 3 and Art of Fighting 3: The Path of the Warrior.  Your concern speaks to the accessibility of the guides, and the redirects serve that purpose, while allowing the policy of appropriate guide names to remain in tact. Procyon (Talk) 03:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If that is the case then shouldn't the Capcom pages be named similarly.


 * Street Fighter II ||Street Fighter II: The World Warrior
 * Street Fighter II Champion Edition ||Street Fighter II' Champion Edition
 * Street Fighter II Turbo ||Street Fighter II' Hyper Fighting
 * Super Street Fighter II ||Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers
 * Street Fighter Alpha ||Street Fighter Alpha: Warriors' Dreams
 * Street Fighter III ||Street Fighter III: New Generation
 * Street Fighter III: 2nd Impact ||Street Fighter III: 2nd Impact: Giant Attack
 * Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike ||Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the Future
 * }
 * and that just the Street Fighter Games--Blue Phoenix 13:28, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ouch... I feel like I just got punched in the nuts... OK, we need to review this matter more closely. Good call BP.  Procyon (Talk) 17:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Street Fighter III: 2nd Impact ||Street Fighter III: 2nd Impact: Giant Attack
 * Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike ||Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike: Fight for the Future
 * }
 * and that just the Street Fighter Games--Blue Phoenix 13:28, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ouch... I feel like I just got punched in the nuts... OK, we need to review this matter more closely. Good call BP.  Procyon (Talk) 17:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * and that just the Street Fighter Games--Blue Phoenix 13:28, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Ouch... I feel like I just got punched in the nuts... OK, we need to review this matter more closely. Good call BP.  Procyon (Talk) 17:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Just redirect the unspecific titles to the category page or an alternate disambiguation page (I think the category is sufficient). -- 19:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I aggree with Prod that we should allways stay with th correct title of the game (and that all the incorrect titles should be simple redirects) but I strongly suggest that we keep the character pages where they are at [Series Name/characters/character name] and do not move them to [first game in the series name/characters/character name]. The reason for that is simply that it is very confusing for the user if he/she is at [Super Street Fighter II Turbo], clicks at a link labeled Ryu and is suddenly at [Street fighter II: The World Warriors/Character/Ryu] with no obvious way to return to the game where he/she came from. --Bmuig 20:08, 14 October 2008 (UTC) (talk)
 * I've been discussing these game names with Procyon, and this is quite the mess of inconsistent naming and excessive ports/re-releases. The general policy is to go with the official name as given by the company. This is decided on a game by game basis and doesn't need to be consistent between series' (or even within).  So, some games can go with the full titles and others don't need to, all depending on what the companies officially say the name is.  Any other names should be set up as redirects -- Prod (Talk) 20:25, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * This whole situation has gotten way out of hand, and has created an extreme mess of problems, and spaghetti links. Therefore, in order to simplify the matter, I would like to propose what Blue Phoenix proposed at the start of this thread, and that we go with the simplest form of the official title, and leave the subtitles for redirects.  The bottom line is what's best for the reader, and it's doubtful that the reader will ever search entirely on the title "Street Fighter II: The World Warrior" or "Fatal Fury: The King of Fighters."  They're just going to search for "Street Fighter II" (or 2, or just SF2, or whatever) and "Fatal Fury".  So let's try and simplify this once and for all.  Subtitles should only be used when they can be used to distinguish between two games that are similarly named, such as SNK vs. Capcom: Match of the Millennium, a fighting game, and SNK vs. Capcom: Card Fighters Clash, a card game. Procyon (Talk) 00:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It looks like this is the best way. Use the simplified version, redirect the long version(s), and make it well known whats going on on the main page of each guide. -- 21:29, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, it looks like Bmuig and I have managed to nick the subtitles off of some of the SNK games. As I mentioned in the table above, there are still certain games that have legitimate and necessary reasons for containing the subtitle.  Further cases can be brought forth for discussion, but would probably be best taken care of in the forums than here.  Thanks for your help Bmuig!  Procyon (Talk) 22:12, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * There's still KOF'98 to take care of, but I'll do that sometime later this week (I'm really tired now) ... and thank you for your help, too, Procyon, that went a lot faster than I expected :) --Bmuig 22:21, 10 November 2008 (UTC) (talk)
 * I think the disambiguation title reason is flimsy, and if the official names are the same, should use something else for disambiguation. If my box says SNK vs. Capcom, how would you know which title to go to (even if you knew which ones existed).  From what I can tell, I don't think it's an issue in this case, since those seem to be the official names anywayz. -- Prod (Talk) 06:19, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Song lyrics in various articles
I recall asking about this a while ago, and I'm still wondering: why are they still in articles such as Donkey Kong? It became a featured guide: but the lyrics are still there. They don't serve much purpose, and it doesn't help in understanding how to play or beat the game. Perhaps all the lyrics should just be moved to a subpage? This might be a minor thing, but I don't see why the Wiki should be a lyrics database for some games. RobJ1981 00:23, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

It's a bizarre experiment that you need to know the lyrics in order to sing a song. I even doubt theirs a musical wiki version where you get to edit music but that's just me. All I'm wondering is how many wiki's like this is out there. There's Wikipedia and Strategy Wiki and I'm certain there could be more. Anyway, this is an editable site for games and lyrics should be a minor thing unless it's needed for games that has music which plays a major role like High School Musical for example. Johnnyauau2000 06:21, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's just nostalgia. If you would check the history, you'd see it was Procyon who has added most, if not all, of the lyrics (if I recall correctly). And you are correct Rob. I don't care, but if you'd like to remove them, you have SW's scope to back you up. Also, we're still discussing a second wiki for stuff like that, so the future may hold a better home for things like that. -- 03:51, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * They will be removed eventually. The plan is to move them to the second video game non-walkthrough wiki that we plan to create.  If it really bothers you, you can remove them today.  As long as they are in the history, I can retrieve the text when the other wiki becomes available.  The scope for the second wiki still needs to be defined, but right now it is essentially anything that is expressly video game related that falls outside of SW's scope, including characters, items, locations, history, merchandise, etc.  Contributions that I plan to submit are primarily retro in nature, but they include Pac-Man Fever lyrics, scans of the old Fleer Pac-Man cards and the Topps Donkey Kong cards, scans of vintage retro magazine covers and Atari Force comic books (and possibly other Atari comic books), and descriptions of all the Nintendo Game & Watch series and video game watches that Nelsonic used to make.  Procyon (Talk) 04:27, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

GTA: SA mission problems
I have got the key card from Millie( I think that is how her name is spelled) but the mission for that is called Key to her heart, i have done all the other onesunder that except breaking the bank at C(i dont know how to spell it) but i am sure you know what I mean. I cant find where to go to get to that mission, could you please tell me where to go. thank you....alishia please email me at purple22_07@yahoo.com
 * Hi. You'd be better off asking on our forums. --DrBob (talk) 16:03, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Image storage
Hi, is there a page where we can browse the images uploaded to the wiki? I'm looking at the Entropia Universe/Skills page, and all the image links are broken. How can I research uploaded images to see if anything like the references links are in there? Thanks, - naj zere 06:12, 16 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Special:ImageList. -- 07:49, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. - naj zere 08:04, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Image-related question: Is there a way to make images not automatically link to their information page? I'd like to use an image as a link. Specifically, I'd like to mirror a 10x5 table from a game menu, filled with pictures of different items, and have a click on an item result in page navigation to a corresponding anchor. This might confuse users who are used to images directing to information, so I would add instructions to click an item for more information. Is this doable? Thanks, - naj zere 15:55, 16 October 2008 (UTC) But it seems that the template is interpreted with a top-down approach, so the    tags are interpreted before the    parameter, making it impossible to put the user input between them. I tried finding how it's done on MediaWiki, but whenever I see formatted code they're just using    tags alone. So their parser is looking for those and applies special formatting? Anyway, I've used this a few times already so I think a template would be beneficial. The template I started, which doesn't work is here. Thanks, - naj zere 17:33, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I just thought of using

Invisible tags
Hey, I was wondering if anyone could tell me what's going on with the Chip's Challenge/Walkthrough page as far as the wikify tags are concerned. When I go in to edit the page I don't see the tags anywhere. - naj zere 17:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It's on the table of contents. -- Prod (Talk) 17:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Category: Sony Greatest Hits
As I was adding some category tags to pages, I was wondering if it would be worthwhile to split the page up into different systems. Seems like a lot of work to try and get PlayStation 2 to sort the games, or to change the category page itself to sort them based on console from their infoboxes. But I thought I'd mention it. - naj zere 23:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The latter is basically impossible (changing the behavior of the category page, that is). Also, what is wrong with the (default) alphabetical sorting? -- 02:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It could be grouped by by system with subcategories (Category:Sony Greatest Hits (PlayStation 3) or something like that). -- Prod (Talk) 05:03, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with the default sorting, I was just looking at the WikiPedia page where they have them grouped by console. There's no need for subcategorizing, I just wanted to ask before I go through 300 games adding deprecated category tags. - naj zere 20:03, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Table formatting
Is there a way to build up some space around tables so text flows better around them when they're floating on the left? For instance:
 * First list element
 * Second list element
 * Third list element

should look the same as floating images:
 * First list element
 * Second list element
 * Third list element

It's kind of limiting as far as layout, because if you don't have a 100% width table, you can only put it on the right. Thanks, - naj zere 03:27, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You need to add a margin-right to the style parameter of prettytable. See the above table for an example of how to do this. -- 03:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This might be something we should do in the main style sheet. Essentially the same css we use for the sidebar.  DrBob, your opinions? -- Prod (Talk) 04:45, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm no DrBob, but I would be a huge supporter of that, this problem has bit me in the butt so many times. Procyon (Talk) 04:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh cool, looks good. - naj zere 06:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be OK with adding a 1.4em margin to the right-hand side of left-floated prettytables, and to the left-hand side of right-floated prettytables, but going any further than that will start breaking things. --DrBob (talk) 07:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not both sides indiscriminately? It would have to be done through the template if we're to have it dependent on position. -- Prod (Talk) 05:44, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No; not both sides indiscriminately, or it'll hover off the side of the page, which wouldn't look nice. We can change the template to apply a different class to it, based on whether it's floated left or right. --DrBob (talk) 07:16, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Image formatting
I noticed some weird formatting with the line spacing when you put a floating image inside a block of text, as opposed to before it:

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.
 * Embedded in a paragraph

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.
 * Before a paragraph

So it looks like the line spacing is getting condensed in there. Where to put the image is somewhat referenced in the guide, but it doesn't explicitly say not to put it right in the middle of some text. I saw this effect on the Dog's Life guide, and just took the images out of the blocks of text to fix it. It's a pretty minor issue, but I don't know how many other guides are using images this way. - naj zere 08:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * This is another thing I run into all the time. Thank you Najzere for bringing them up.  I always thought this had something to do with images in tables, I didn't realize tables were not required to recreate this effect.  Does anyone know if this also takes place on WP or is it exclusive to us? Procyon (Talk) 14:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't seem to affect WP, but it is difficult to tell because of all the references they use. That's an interesting effect I never really thought about much, but it definitely should be fixed if we can do so.-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 14:15, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well line spacing isn't an issue, but WikiPedia doesn't handle it well either: an example. - naj zere 15:23, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That sandbox looks fine to me, however on SW the condensed text is noticeable. -- 19:24, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Really? I see the line break right in the middle of the sentence in the sandbox. I'm using Firefox 3.0.4 and screen resolution of 1440x900 if that matters. In this image you can see the line breaking and the space actually increases between the line where it breaks and the line where it picks back up. - naj zere 20:32, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This looks like it's something that's being done by the wiki parser and it's different from wikipedia (ie. might be fixed in a later patch).
 * Before paragraph: We both put the paragraph in it's own  block.
 * In paragraph: Wikipedia breaks it into two separate  blocks, one for the stuff before, one for the stuff after.  Here on SW, it seems that we don't even put the   tags in at all for this case.
 * --Prod (Talk) 21:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless the line break location is unintentional, I can't see why it's a bad thing. -- 03:25, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Need for Speed Undercover
I know the game is out but I haven't had the guts to ask these questions. What's the normal process is when you know the new games available and is to be expected to be on the list? How do they make that box image and the things around it and as a whole, how does the forum work? I will admit I know how to edit but I'm not that good at ... how should I put this? A small table list on the side with the picture and even make a new page which is scary to me. Anyway, it's about a month until Christmas there's still those things I have yet to learn. I hope you won't take it the wrong way or leave me with a wrong impression because I'm known to make mistake which is hard not to do twice. Johnnyauau2000 05:48, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You can create a new page in a few different ways. You can type the name of the page into your browser's address bar, into the search box at the top of the page or you can click on a red link with page's name. They all produce different results:


 * Once you get to the edit page, just click the button above the edit box that says "Main game page" and it will automatically put in everything you need for a new main game page, including the infobox, which is the table with the image in it on the side. - naj zere 06:56, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll use the available resources from Gamespot which is the site I go to a lot. However the image game box (if that's correct) will not be there at first. If it works, I'll get on with it as long as anyone can provide help for me. This will be the first for me to see if I have the courage to make a new page. Johnnyauau2000 10:17, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I hate to make it worse but I want to add two more games for multiplatform consoles. Call of Duty: World at War and James Bond 007: Quantum of Solace is what I want to add before Christmas. I could use some more help on those. I couldn't help how iconic those games were so I'm not going to let this chance slip out of my hands. As for table of contents, I better let the more experience editor help set up those links and maybe I'll get the idea once more. I'm sorry if it's too much. Johnnyauau2000 12:52, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the wake up call. I'll think more about when to use help but what can I do? Where else can I turn for help? Anyway, I'm far too emotional to do anymore. Next time, I should spend less time asking for help and spend more time learning to edit in a more constructive way (not to mention all that hard work that's been paid off). I wish I have a diary but I can't do it on the internet. Anyway, this is the last I want to add because my guilt should be over by now. Johnnyauau2000 07:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Online journal? Isn't that what a blog is? We'll help where we can. -- 12:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Wii Speak.
I would do it in the forum but I don't know how to sign in. The new accessory is available today. I don't know where else to give the news so this is the best I could do. You could very well update it on the Wii along with the Wii Zapper and the Wii Balance Board. I would do it but I don't know where to get the picture for it. Anyway, I'll understand if you don't want to add it because help should be there only for really tough questions that can hardly be answered. Johnnyauau2000 00:21, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Unreal Engine
I made a pages for Category:Unreal Engine and Category:Unreal Engine 1, 2, 3, and 4, but I'm not sure about them. I categorized the individual ones with   so they show up on the main page, and I transcluded the intro from the main page onto the individual pages. They all have   on them, but maybe the main one shouldn't? If a game uses the Unreal Engine, wouldn't it be one of the four? Anyway, I wanted some input on that and also whether doing the tranclusion was okay and whether there should even be a main Unreal Engine page. Thanks, - naj zere 16:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering the number of games, I think they could all be categorized under the general "Unreal Engine." Thus, 1, 2, 3, and 4 would all be considered versions of the same product, and individual descriptions of changes or whatever could reside on the broad category page (and individual ones would be deleted). -- 19:56, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That sounds fine as long as it's agreed that knowing the specific version of the engine is unimportant. - naj zere 20:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Sony
I'd like to change the category Sony to Sony Computer Entertainment due to the fact that it is the latter which produces video games and consoles. If I move Category:Sony to Category:Sony Computer Entertainment will links be automatically updated on all the pages? If not, can someone have their bot do it? - naj zere 20:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think with this case, you have to be careful about fixing things automatically. It's true that SCE is a publisher, and in a few cases, a developer of titles, but prior to the PlayStation, Sony did publish titles (like for the MSX and Famicom) simply as Sony, so you probably don't want to blanket apply such a change.  Pro  cyon  20:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, two separate pages then? Right now it looks like all the pages that have been categorized as Sony are for PS1 and up. I'm not sure if we just don't have any guides for Sony produced MSX games or they're not labeled as such, but before that happens it might be a good idea to switch the ones in the category to Sony Computer Entertainment. - naj zere 20:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Ordered lists
Can we fix this? gives:
 * 1) three
 * 2) four
 * 3) five
 * 1) three
 * 2) four
 * 3) five

Works on WP, by the way. - naj zere 22:58, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The fact that it works on WP just proves that they rely on utter hacks in order to do things. If you want to start an ordered list at something other than 1, use straight-up HTML instead of a wikimarkup hack, e.g.

three four five
 * which gives:

three four five
 * Don't use hacks. -- 23:11, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Can a list from a transcluded page (which contains an ordered list) be continued on the current page? Seems like a simple and desirable concept yet default mediawiki doesn't do it as far as I can see.

Preload templates
I want to include all the fields in the preload templates (infobox and company) because every time I create a new main page, series page or company page I have to go to the actual template page and copy/paste the example from there so I don't leave out info. I actually already modified them once, but left in the example text for the parameters thinking it would help people understand what goes in there and how to format it. That probably wasn't a good idea, since that example information might be left in, meaning extra cleanup. So, how does everyone feel about adding in the fields, but leaving them blank so the optional ones don't show up, but they're there for editors to use? I think it's mainly people who know what they're doing making company pages, but for the infobox, if not all fields, can we at least add  and  ?

Along the same lines, would it be worthwhile to add links to common, multi-parameter templates in the insertion box at the bottom of edit pages? I mean down where you can click links to insert wiki markup, symbols, characters, etc. Right now I'm just thinking of series and system, but there are probably other useful templates as well (some of which are in the StrategyWiki markup section). - naj zere 18:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The preloads are more for the newbies who might not figure out the template in general. Advanced users can do the copy paste thing, or add their own preload buttons (though that's fairly advanced). -- Prod (Talk) 08:15, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * oooh, preload buttons sounds like something fun ;) --Vizeroth 23:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Open for comment
While I'm in here asking about the preload templates, here are some questions/comments I've left around various talk pages. If anyone wants to comment on any of these, that would be helpful. Thanks, - naj zere 18:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * changes to the System template (this one's actually kind of important)
 * formatting control pages
 * requesting guides vs. collaboration
 * adding scope to consoles on guide completion
 * modifying the YouTube template
 * forcing WP link on Company template

Redirects/categories
I created two redirect pages: "KOTOR" and "Knights of the Old Republic", which both go to Category:Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. However, I'm seeing both those pages listed in the category page itself; is there a way to get rid of those and leave just the other two that were already there? Baejung92 (talk) 20:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed. -- Prod (Talk) 20:03, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Those colons. Baejung92  (talk) 20:07, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Guide watching
How do I put every page in a guide on my watchlist? I've done it before but I don't remember how :) Baejung92  (talk) 02:29, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Special:Watchsubpages --Vizeroth 02:31, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Baejung92  (talk) 02:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Article Tags
Is there a list of article tags that can be put on top of pages?

Such as Wikify, Delete, Drivel, etc...??

I've looked for a list of these, but can't find it.

Thanks.


 * Category:Header box templates  Pro cyon  18:18, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

New external links
What's with this thing that comes up sometimes if I try creating a page? For example, I just created Fashion Dogz and it told me that the page had 'new external links' but I didn't add any websites to that page. What's going on, because it never used to do that before. -- Me lon  2  4  7  17:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that was an issue with some of our configuration changes that should have only affected new accounts, but ended up affecting every account instead. This issue has since been resolved, so you shouldn't have to worry about seeing any more captchas. -- 03:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Game Naming
What is the site policy for games that have different names in different countries? Such as a game that has a different name in Europe than it does in the USA? For example, the game page for Fashion Dogz was recently created. This is the Europe name for this game. In the USA, it is called Petz: Dogz Fashion. Which name do we give it here on Strategy Wiki? Or is it just whichever one is created first? Please elaborate on the policy for this.

Also, I have the same question for Box Art. Do we put the Europe box art, USA box art, or both?? Thanks. - --louie55 03:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Whichever one was created first, and then create the other names as redirects to that page, see here for the part of our Guide concerning that. As for the boxart, pick the one that corresponds to the name of the page and put the others in a &lt;gallery&gt; tag on the guide's main page. -- 03:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Cool, so I did it right for Ace Combat =D --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 05:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't the title be for the version the walkthrough is about? So, if there were version differences or something in a UK version of a game to a US version, people wouldn't be confused. Such as if someone in the US had written the Dog's Life guide and (although it doesn't) it had a different title in the US or something, and that was the UK name and used here, and they put something about the fence around the park. Then people would go to the park and see that there was no fence there.-- Me lon  2  4  7  15:20, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Melon, if there are any major differences between versions they should be noted within the guide. If the game is drastically different, then we'll need to split the game into two guides.  But, yes, the guide should be named based off the version if there is more than one.  Usually, the guide will be written for both the UK and US versions, and so there is no need for multiple names.  Edit:  Oops!  Thanks!-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 19:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, and by the way you forgot to sign.-- Me lon  2  4  7  15:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Uncategorized Pages
Today, I was browsing the cleanup project and clicked on the Uncategorized main pages link and their was a page listed there (The page has since been deleted by Najzere so I can't link to it). I had to add   to the page to get it off of the Uncategorized list. Now I see that 2 more pages are listed there that were created today. Why are these pages showing up here? Shouldn't they automatically be put in the Sub-pages category?? Or am I missing something?? --louie55 01:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Edit: Ok, Najzere answered my question. It is because a header nav was not present. Since I added a header nav at the same time as adding it to Sub-pages, I didn't notice that just a header nav would fix it. Sorry for wasting space here. --louie55 01:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Adverts
Why do we need all these adverts above and beside the site? Because sometimes the ones at the top cover up some of the links on the right-hand side, and once I was doing something and accidentally clicked on the advert at the side and lost all the work I'd been doing and had to start again. Or are those adverts just randomly there and nothing we can do to get rid of them? -- Me lon  2  4  7  14:08, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The adverts are there so that we can get a source of income to fund various projects we're thinking of implementing (such as guide bounties). Since the advertisements themselves are through GamerDNA, I believe that we need to contact them to remove any offending ads, so could you please paste a screenshot and link to the ad in question so that we can formulate something to send to them. Also, you may want to consider getting an addon for your browser that allows you to block ads if you do not wish to view them. -- 15:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, they're not really offending- more annoying really. I guess the easiest thing for me to do is to just try and ignore them. -- Me lon  2  4  7  17:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's because your resolutions is small. Anything smaller than 1280x960 will have this problem, as we don't have the site coded to stretch with the size of the horizontal advertisement (which is something we could look into fixing). -- 22:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Citing sources
I went through and changed all the ref and note usages to reflist since the former are in the deprecated templates category. Can we delete those templates now? Also, what's up with citing sources on the page itself? Is that still the way it's done? There are a bunch of pages that reference individuals or sites who found cheat codes, for instance. Can we move these to the talk page or are they meant to be on the article page? - naj zere 09:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Game Selector
How would we create one if there isn't one already? I mean like creating something like the control selector we have, but for choosing stuff in different games. Like in Petz: Dogz 2 and Catz 2, if we had one of those templates then I wouldn't have to keep putting (for example) 'Godfrey is a Scottish Terrier or Somali' and I cuold just put Scottish Terrier for if dogz was selected and Somali for if Catz was selected. -- Me lon  2  4  7  18:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've thought about this as well, changing it from a controller selector to just a more generic anything selector. Default would still be controller, but perhaps you could change the title to say whatever you wanted like "Version Selector" or "Game Selector." And maybe a more generic image for non-controller oriented ones, like arrows pointing in two directions or something. - naj zere 20:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

help on Little Fighter 2 and AdventureQuest Worlds guide
I have just started a new guide on the guide on Little Fighter 2 and AdventureQuest Worlds. I eddited a lot on the AQWorlds page so i got one box in the square. I still need a lot of help cause my computer is limited to .org sites. (that's why i can do this site)

I suddenly realized that there was no Little Fighter 2 guide so i decided to make one. I don't have a lot of time but i really want to help to increase StrategyWiki's library of games. Please, I really need a lot of help

You can either reply here, on my talk page (i will make a section for it), or make a discussion on the game's dicussion page.

-May you days be filled with adventure Jakcer (Talk) 05:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Series images
Hey, what do you guys think of ? - naj zere 17:01, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that'd be good for images that could be re-used for other guides in the series.--Vizeroth 21:03, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

najzere is abusing his sysop power
I've been authoring some new pages. Specifically Mount&Blade/Companion Comparison and Mount&Blade/Companion Builds. Builds is still a mess but I was working on it. Also possbily some edits to Mount&Blade/Companions At first he was helpful and I took his critizisims as constructive and reworked the page. Discussions of the issues can be found at Talk:Mount&Blade/Companion Comparison and User talk:Gumption I needed to move a large table down the page so that the advertisment wouldn't cover it up. I realize this was a cludge but it was a working cludge. He removed the whitespace making the data unreadable. Since the data was unreadable I reversed his edit. This is was just the author of the page rejecting an edit by another user. an edit that does not work and hides the data. Before I could even finish writing up the reasons for my rejection on the discussion page he had locked the page and reinstated the broken edit. This is completely overhanded and abusive. I'm a firm believer in wiki and as a software developer I have setup mediawiki sites at work and been an advid user but it seems that the community here is very controlling and not very nurturing to new authors. --Gumption 06:01, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

That's funny. I thought najzere is doing a good job. I do have problems of my own but not as severe as his. Let's start off with this: Have you left it on najzere discussion page about your problems and how does he "lock" the page? After all, this is a learning process and I'm always interested in how editors solve their problems. Take your time and answer on this page soon. Johnnyauau2000 06:34, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Najzere has been good so far and learns quickly/corrects any mistakes he makes. Both of you have been doing good work so far, so please do keep it up.  We're in general nurturing to most authors, but most authors don't test the limits of the site ;).  Lets stick to discussing the technical restrictions and work together to find a solution. -- Prod (Talk) 06:49, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I apologize for protecting the page, I did so in error. As I've said on the Companion Comparis talk page, Prod has informed me of the policy, and I won't make that mistake again. However, there is really no reason embellish your claims, as the edit histories for both the page in question and its talk page do not lie. It would behoove you to just stick to the facts and try to explain your position rationally. The staff here is more than capable of ascertaining that I removed the whitespace three times before locking the page, and did so after you had posted on the talk page.


 * Your attitude so far has been mildly belligerent, and you seem to feel you are warranted some sort of special privilege or respect, perhaps because you are a software developer or a veteran MediaWiki user. However, as you should well know, you don't own any of the pages you "author," and anyone is free to edit them. You would do well to stick around for a while and "learn the ropes," as every wiki is somewhat different. Escalating discussions, or taking automatic uncompromising stances, like your position on using the Show preview button, aren't conducive to collaborative editing. I suggest you just put this behind you, as the page is now unprotected and I've split the tables up. We're now free to do what we all came here to do, which is to make great game guides. - naj zere 06:52, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

That's ok. I'm just curious because sometimes problems can also be unusual, I mean it will take me a while to learn how to make a table, but not to the extent that it has to be perfect. I did put on my user page that I won't be editing until February so I can get the stress out of my head. Anyway, just be careful not to end up punshing people to death or crossing the line just to get you're point across. From a general perspective even though I'm not involved with Gumption, the problem should be easily solved. So take it easy ok najzere? Thanks. Johnnyauau2000 10:31, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you all need to calm down. Take a deep breath. And for goodness sake stop getting annoyed with each other. -- Me lon  2  4  7  14:12, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Sometimes people get carried away all the way around, or people misconstrue what's written simply because it is written (and many times we all write in a manner similar to the way in which we speak, without the benefit of the clues we give in our speech to what we really mean). From the referenced discussion pages, it would seem most of this has come to a decent end, but I just thought I'd add that sometimes it helps to take a step back and let it sit for a while before adding more comments to the mess. I've had times when I've been frustrated by things around here, and come back later only to find that I was just taking things the wrong way, or getting ahead of myself. I'm sure it happens to everyone once in a while --~ Viz eroth  ( contr  ibs )~-- 05:46, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Xbox template
The way I look at it, I'm surprised that the left and right shoulder trigger for the old Xbox controller is missing, so they use the modern shoulder triggers designed for Xbox360. The guy working on the images should really double check because if we're going to stick with that format, than I'm afraid I might end up believing that all Xbox games is actually the Xbox360 games. All it needs is just the left and right triggers from the original Xbox controller so it if there is someone who knows how to do those images, maybe I shouldn't buy into it that the button layout can be mistook for anything else. Besides, when I work on "Enter the Matrix" button layout, when it comes to the Xbox, somehow to make up for the left shoulder trigger, I have to use the Xbox360 left trigger so anyone can believe that the Xbox controller has that button. Johnnyauau2000 06:55, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * From : Controller buttons for the Xbox System. These are based on colors from a controller from a Xbox 360 system, but as the two controllers are almost exactly the same, this button set contains the unique buttons of both the xbox 360 and xbox consoles. I haven't really seen much of an issue with this. The / works perfectly fine for either system, and I've used it on any guide for which I've done the Xbox controls. My 360 controller's black anyway, and my Xbox controller was the original large controller, which had some differences (most of the buttons aren't round). The idea is that the images handle the widest possible range of system controls. For instance the psx template works for 4 systems with very few issues (though I admit to asking for some PSP-specific images, it still works to use psx: Neutral Lstick and psx: R1/psx: L1)--~ Viz eroth  ( contr  ibs )~-- 07:14, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * So from this point on, Xbox and Xbox360 controllers are exactly alike, that no matter what game you play, there's no difference between the two. But seriously, I don't think I'll ever test that theory using left and right triggers. The only way I know the difference is the Xbox360 controller resembles more like the PS2 controller and the Xbox controller comes close to the Gamecube controller without the Z button. If you want to test that theory between the Xbox and the Xbox360 controller, test it on "The Godfather". I am certain that the old normal Xbox controller is no different to the Xbox360 controller. Johnnyauau2000 09:23, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * If there are differences between the controls for the two systems on the same game, just specify that in the controls page (and any other page that uses the control templates). If I need to use to do something, I just need to know what it's going to do on the system I'm using to play the game. Here's an example of a game that is on the PS2 and PSP, which has slightly different controls between the two systems (and also DS controls): Disgaea: Hour of Darkness/Controls. If the controls are completely different between the Xbox and Xbox360, just list both sets of controls, as I did in the Additional Controls section on that page. The psx: L1/psx: R1 control images aren't the best for the PSP, but they get the information across to the users, which is what is most important.--~ Viz  eroth  ( contr  ibs )~-- 14:24, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Gallery tag
Is there a way to resize images that are inside a gallery? Specifically, I'm talking about the ones near the bottom of this page. I guess it's fine at that size, but I'd like them to be bigger if possible. Baejung92 (talk) 05:11, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You could use a table instead, even a will work. Then you just set the image size in the image tags, like an image anywhere else.--~ Viz  eroth  ( contr  ibs )~-- 06:03, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I changed the sizes on that page; you can fix them to whatever sizes you were looking for. Also, if you find the image size you want makes them too big to display four across (the default), you can use the  parameter to set how many images per row. - naj zere  07:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Out of curiosity, how come the images don't fill the entire box? Baejung92  (talk) 01:18, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

The Statistical Table.
Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Statistical comparison

The table in the link is very HARD to understand. There's all this numbers and so complex to understand that to me it just won't cut it. I still have the game guide and I'm now doing a fresh page with those statistics which is easier to understand. I want to know what they're thinking because they want to be dead accurate about doing every little move which is for people who thinks they're smart and using their scientific approach to give them a better understanding between each character. Johnnyauau2000 06:16, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Unrelated, but please use Internal links when linking to pages on the wiki, not external links. -- 16:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

What's an internal link? Johnnyauau2000 00:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * for example, the fixed version of the above link is written like this: Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Statistical comparison . See Guide/Links for more details. --~ Viz er  oth ~-- 01:24, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, back on topic: I agree with you in that I cannot understand half of what the stuff means. I've seen your work so far on the new table and it's looking good, just be sure to explain in detail what all of the stuff means (like what "Attack" is even though it seems fairly obvious). When you're done, replace the old table(s) with your new one(s), a new page isn't necessary. If you want to keep the old ones, that's fine too :) -- 23:29, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll wait a little longer and if there isn't any change then I can move my new table. I'll still try to simplify what I wrote in a new page and make sure my effort doesn't go to waste. I also kept the new table data in case someone decides to delete my old page that I work so hard on. Johnnyauau2000 00:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC)