User talk:Najzere/Talk page archive 201–300

Fable 2
Cheers dude :) was just adding all this stuff on fable 2, thanks for cleaning it up for me :).
 * No problem, that's what I do. :D You're adding pages rather quickly, are they coming from a guide you already had written? — najzere T 17:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Well I had been using this site for mount and blade, and I had been looking through various sites with guides and things and thought.. hey might as well collate them altogether, rather than having all these good seperate guides on seperate sites :)
 * Hey, as long as you're not directly copying anything, I think that's great. Thanks for helping out! — najzere T 17:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Just a quick question, I have a walkthrough guide.. and its split into like chapters, how should I do this? On the contents page I want it to show all the chapters, not just one huge long walkthrough.. cheers :)
 * Just add links to each chapter under the "Walkthrough" section of the ToC like you've done in the Appendices section. If there are in-game names you can use instead of just "Chapter #", that would be preferred. — najzere T 18:03, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Small Edits
I'm glad you told me it was getting bad. I have noticed I keep making tiny edits. I'm just making sure that each piece comes together correctly. I usually do just a little work to build up on what I've done. I don't want to risk losing it in a big edit, but if you prefer it like that, I'll try and make it easier. This is my first major guide project, and I haven't done much else this big in the time I've been here. It just takes a while to adjust. After all, I find it hard to tell mistakes in bigger edits. I wont go crazy on minor edits. --|Superpowered  Mario  19:52, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks for trying to cut down on the small edits. You can also try saving your work to a text file if you're not done, then copy/pasting it back in the next day and continuing where you left off. I've done that on a couple pages I've worked on. - najzere T 20:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Mario Power Tennis.
Oh man I don't know how to say this but I'm really having trouble with the main page. I could use some help with fixing up the Table of Contents and the templates getting all mixed up. So if you have some time, hopefully I won't go further into trouble. Also the boxart I tried is a low resolution and pretty freaky for me to put in so I add a comment for someone to take it out. So maybe you can find a boxart in high resolution and less scary shall I say. Thanks. Johnnyauau2000 11:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Deleting a picture
Hi Najzere,

You already helped me in the past with my guide on Voyage Century and I have one more question for you. How do I delete a picture from Stategy Wiki? This is the picture I want to delete :. The problem is because I didn't had the right name when I uploaded it and I want to use this one :.

I hope you can help me. Thx DJ K-Jtan 19:13, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Answered on his talk page. -- Prod (Talk) 19:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thx for the reply I thought the abbreviation of the game was to be put at the end of the name of the file but I will put it at the beginning. Thx for the help DJ K-Jtan 16:21, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, keep up the great work! - najzere T 16:27, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Images/Maps.
I thought I read on the "Categories" page that an overhead view of a level was classified as a map....I think this is what's confusing me. Back on the Wiki for this game where I personally work and have practically become the owner with everything I did there, there aren't so many stipulations. Andrewb 21:18, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, like I said, it's not that great of a distinction. Due to the fact that the entire game is played overhead, it looks like it's played on "maps", however for the purposes of our categories, it's not quite accurate. A map is a representation of a an actual area to help you understand its layout and characteristics. Maps/Screenshots really isn't a big deal here (on StrategyWiki), what I was mainly concerned with is now half your images are categorized one way and half the other. Also, once a method has been established (i.e. I categorized all your images as screenshots), it's normal to continue the same way in the future. Maps or Screenshots, it's up to you, as long as they're all categorized the same. - najzere T 21:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: BSM History
To me, that'd be like comparing anything in a video game to its real life counterpart. I'm kind of iffy about it, although if enough support can be garnered for it I could do it. --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 00:43, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well this particular game is based on true events, which is why you get those kind of edits. I'm not for or against a differences page, I was just suggesting something to make patrolling the guide easier for you. - najzere T 06:15, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Marking messy edits as patrolled
Please review edits before marking them. The majority of the edits made by the anon to Metroid Prime Hunters on May 22nd need cleanup. -- 02:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, fixed. I mainly review for vandalism and formatting that breaks the page, and haven't been too strict on spelling in the past. I'll make sure to cleanup edits I patrol or leave them for later when I or someone else has the time to review them. Thanks, - najzere T 16:11, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm guilty of the same thing...-- Duke Ruckley Talk 19:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Spelling
Thanks for letting me know, I had no idea. It would be quite abnormal for me not to stumble upon this from time to time so I really appreciate being corrected on it. --Zaiqukaj 07:43, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Page move
Thanks, I'm new round here so if I'm doing anything wrong feel free to tell me (: JordanH 19:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually your edits look really good. Keep up the great work. :) - najzere T 19:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Places template
I don't suppose you could help me to make a places template for the Petz: Dogz 2 and Catz 2 guide? It would be something like this but In a template so you don't have to write out all the headers and stuff. Can you help? 17:31, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but if you don't have something to put in one of the cells, it will just be blank, okay? Because it would be too hard to make it able to colspan or omit whole rows in every possible case. - najzere T 17:35, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I was just thinking to put "none" in there anyway so it shows you're not trying to work it out. So... um... OK ; ) 17:38, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay: Dogz area info. - najzere T 17:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making the template! ; ). Just wanted to know, how come you're not in IRC anymore? 16:55, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, let me know if you need any changes. I don't go on IRC, cause I have nothing to say. - najzere T 16:59, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: The Sims 3
Hi, thanks for the heads up. I've supported the vote, but not sure whether or not I'll be getting it straight away as my computer needs a spec boost at the moment! Also, still got a lot of work to do on the Bon Voyage stuff, but I'll help where I can. :) JordanH 19:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks! - najzere T 19:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * On The Sims 2: Bon Voyage/Walkthrough, do you think it would be a good idea to split the article after the "What's New" section, as I think the second part really should be covered in more detail on another page, but leaving it in and doing a separate page would make it repetitive. What do you think? JordanH 00:44, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If it merits its own page, then by all means move it to a separate page. In the edit history just mention where it's being moved from so we have a reference to its history if anyone wants to see it. - najzere T 01:47, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

RE: sprites
my apologies, I forgot, I havent really been here in a long time. Halosonic 19:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No prob! :) - najzere T 20:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Clasty Article
I appreciate the assistance. I was writing my guide, and tried to have a space where I could have some of my friends and I collaborate on it before I submitted it. I wasn't aware there was a user space that I could put it under. I'm a bit of perfectionist, and preferred to have the majority of the article written before I made any modifications to the current starter guide.

I wasn't quite sure if there was just a sandbox place that I could store it until I was ready to integrate. Am I able to keep that article there and work on it until I begin to integrate it with the main guide?

Thanks for your assistance. Danr14 01:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can do pretty much whatever you want in your userspace. That particular method of making wiki pages isn't recommended however, since it defeats the collaborative process of a wiki. People interested in working on GoonZu pages won't know to look in your userspace, which can result in missing out on other users' contributions or duplication of effort. I'm still not sure where you want to put that page, as most of the information belongs on a Getting Started page, and GoonZu Online (which is what it appears to be for) already has one. Could you please let me know which game the page is for? Thanks, - najzere T 01:54, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Pokemon trainer template
hey, quick question, what is the template for the trainers in PRSE si i dont have to make any more "wierd formats"?

Halosonic 18:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I added a documentation page to   to explain how it's used. Simple lists with a left-floated image weren't working, so I put them into tables to cure their formatting issues. The template is just an easier way to accomplish that, and also to differentiate between trainers from the two different games. -  najzere T 05:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Tag opinion
I've been conflicted on how to label this for a while. If the only cleanup remaining on a page is to convert things like P or U to the or  icons then would the page be tagged with  or  ? --Zaiqukaj 08:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Arcade would be most appropriate, as then the page would show up in the missing Arcade controls page. - najzere T 08:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input. I'm trying to get through all the wikify needing pages that are possible to fix without actually playing the game and this knowledge should be quite helpful. --Zaiqukaj 08:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Knights of Cygnus Guide/Equipment
NGPriest has also request for his data to stay off the site

He is currently helping to set up the new Hidden-Street.net database

Please respect his decisions, thank you

(Sorry, couldn't find the talk page before)

60.240.195.138 06:56, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Any contributions to the wiki, unless copyrighted, are released under the terms of the GFDL (see the text below the edit text box when editing a page), and as such, access to it cannot be later revoked. - najzere T 21:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

So there's no way to remove data that has been posted?

NGPriest is so going to be pissed at me

What if he copyrights the text and i copied it? Can he remove it?

60.240.195.138 06:56, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * His work was copyrighted the moment he produced it, but you have to be clear about what exactly can be copyrighted. Raw data just exists, it did so before NGPriest knew of it, and as such cannot be copyrighted. What we cannot use, is a copy of his expression of that data. In other words, we can't copy/paste his work from wherever he's posting it, however, anyone is free to use the information they learn from reading that work, as long as it is presented in a unique manner. If you have concerns that we may be hosting copyrighted text, you can use the copyvio template on the page in question, with the source of the copyrighted material. We're very quick to check into copyright issues, as we have a zero-tolerance for plagiarism. - najzere T 21:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I have seen it has been edited

How can i add a copyright text next time?

Incase i want to post something, but still owned by the copyright owner?

Is there anyway to allow the copyright owner to remove the content?

If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here.

It says edited or redistributed, but it doesn't say it will be 100% kept on the site

So is there anything that will allow the copyright owner to remove the content?

Thanks

Also, i did register an account, but i see that it has been deleted

I used NGPriest's name/email to register

60.240.195.138 06:56, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Another problem is that most of the database is internal, so that it can't be viewed publicly

How can NGPriest claim that he has the copyright on the data that has been posted without revealing the database site/id/pw to the public?

60.240.195.138 06:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The only username to be blocked lately was Jinnhl, but that was before you started striking edits on MapleStory. There is no way to have copyrighted material on the site. It is either agreed to be released under our license by the author, or it doesn't belong. That being said, none of the information looks copyrightable, since it's just data and it's been modified already. If you want to keep copyrighted material off the site, simply don't post it. There is no "delete it at some later point if you want to" caveat.


 * As for the internal database, you can email an administrator through the StrategyWiki email system, and only that person will see the link. I'd suggest you not do so unless you see something on the wiki that has been copied word for word from your site. Even then, it's very hard to establish which came first between two sites contemporaneously building information on the same game. Unless your site's history of edits is as transparent as ours, it's unlikely you could make a case for copyright of information that you've never published. I would just drop the whole thing and stop posting on this wiki if I were you.


 * I'm not very confident you really understand the concept of copyrighting, but just so you know, NGPriest doesn't own any information he finds out about MapleStory, even if he is the first person to write it down. As I've said before, the information already exists whether NGPriest has identified it or not, and once someone becomes aware of it, they are free to do with it what they please. The only thing NGPriest owns is how he conveys that information. In other words, if he says "This cool sword, called The Monkey Blade, does 200 HP damage", we couldn't just copy/paste that, but it's fine for us to put "The Monkey Blade" in a table, and assign 200 HP to a corresponding damage field, even if we learned that from NGPriest. By the way, I'm not a lawyer, so feel free to research copyright law to get your own understanding of it. - najzere T 09:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

CC maps again.
I've changed all my CCLP2 images to "Chips Challenge Level Pack 2" in the files, but I'm having problems with fixing them here. According to the rules you posted, the thing to do is to click the "Move" tab on the image's page. However, I cannot seem to find it. Please respond back. Andrewb 22:01, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to apologize, I just checked the group rights, and it seems non-admin can't move files. In this case it actually worked out just fine, because none of those images need to be moved. Abbreviations are quite all right in image names, especially for games with long names like Chip's Challenge Level Pack 2. The places where we use exact names are on the guide-specific images categories. If you do need to move a file in the future, you can place the rename template on it and an admin will do it for you. - najzere T 22:34, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought I read somewhere in my page that I was supposed to just use Category:Chip's Challenge images. Clarification, please? I wouldn't have started uploading so many if I thought they were incorrect. What needs changing, other than probably the ones that are still labeled "CCLP2" in the guide pages? Andrewb 20:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, you use "Chip's Challenge images" for images going on the Chip's Challenge guide. You use "Chip's Challenge Level Pack 2 images" for images going on the Chip's Challenge Level Pack 2 guide. The last post on your talk page said exactly that. Are you talking about "CCLP2" in the filename? Because that is perfectly acceptable. The place where we use the exact guide name is in the guide-specific image category. I don't know how to more clearly explain the way image categorization works here. You can read the policy or you can just look at the changes I've made to all the images you upload. The simplest way I can explain it is that you look at the guide where the image is going, then use that guide's name for the image category. Does that make sense? If you're still confused, maybe someone else can explain it in a way that you'll understand. — najzere T 20:48, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

another template question
hey Naz, another question related to the pokemon trainer template; does it also work for FireRed/LeafGreen Pages? Peace Out, God Bless. Halosonic 00:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, right now it only accepts input for Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald. I don't know much about Pokémon games, but if you think a general Pokémon trainer template would be useful across all the guides, let me know and I'll work on it. If you just want to adapt it for FireRed/LeafGreen, we can do that too. - najzere T 03:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

yes it would be, but for now, it be better to focus on the the 3rd generation (Ruby Sapphire Firered Leafgreen and Emerald). until then, ill have to use the old format. thanks.

Peace out, God Bless. Halosonic 03:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll add those two. Just let me know if they need anything different in the template from the other games. - najzere T 03:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * All right, I updated the template to include the two new games. I also made images optional and made an instance for neutral trainers in case you want to use that too. The new template has been moved to pokemon trainer. - najzere T 20:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

FF7
Thanks. I'm running into something now. On the Five Years Ago/Parade For Rufus page, the one boss, Bottomswell. He takes half (I think) damage from gravity, not null and he is immune to earth attacks. I don't really know how to change it. I've gone over and corrected/clarified quite a bit of this page. Let me know if it's up to par. (I'm new at this)

Toasty0717 05:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I figured it out. I got the null from the coding. As it turns out, null in code=strong on the page. Toasty0717 05:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay glad you got it. Anytime you're editing and you're not sure about a template, you can follow the link to it at the bottom of the page (below the save button) and there might be some documentation on how to use it. - najzere T 10:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Just FYI, I posted a reply on my page. Didn't really know where to put it. Toasty0717 21:52, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I saw it, thanks. I like to keep replies at the same talk page they're started on, but some people like to go back and forth. - najzere T 22:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Navs on transcluded pages
Just wrap them with " ". -- 06:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That would work for transcluded ones, but sometimes the page is just linked to from other guides' ToCs. So you could be on one game, go to the secrets page, then when you go to the next page you're on a different guide. I mentioned this a long time ago about the Street Fighter: The Movie guide, but apparently this is how all fighting game guides operate. I don't know what the best solution is, to be honest. - najzere T 07:02, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The footer nav links should just point back to the parent game's main page, and then readers will only navigate through the collective ToC. -- 07:08, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * LOL. Table of Contents | Secrets | Table of Contents? Okay, that would work, although it kind of negates the point of a navigation bar. At least there will be a [Go to top] link it. - najzere T 07:12, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoops, thought of something else. Originally I thought you could just use the normal footer nav, even if it's on a different guide, but they don't all share ToCs, so you'd still go from one guide to another guide's page, then to a ToC with all different fighters. So you could put a different game in the  parameter, but then that guide couldn't use its own page's navigation. Also, if more than one game was using that page, there'd be even more linked to the wrong ToCs. O_o -  najzere T 07:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ? Header navs definitely should not have double ToC links, and fighting games of a series shouldn't have issues with a shared ToC, as all of the characters will be the same (some with missing characters, some with additional characters). -- 20:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Fighting games stuff
Yeah, I'll add the navs to the pages when I'm done. And if you want to use to bot to fix the spelling of Desperation that would be good too, I'll see if I can fix any other inconsistency. (BackLash 12:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC))
 * How about the naming? Should they all say "Moves" at the end? Just let me know the exact name you want to use for each one so I can do it all in one sweep. - najzere T 18:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Image Uploads
Sorry for the inconvenience!~ Next time i will put the abbreviation of MapleStory. (MS)

--Spadow 20:21, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Temple of Time
This is the correct name. So yeah, those links need to be changed back.--IsaacGS 17:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick response! — najzere T 17:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, i have been out of town for the last 2 weeks and i still have 2 more weeks of traveling ahead. Yes, all instances of "Timeless temple" should be changed to "Temple of Time", this is the official name from GlobalMS, which is what we use for English name sources when two different english versions have different translations.--IsaacGS 22:29, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I already went ahead and cleaned up that move, but thanks for the confirmation. I think I saw a recent edit where someone changed the pipe back to Timeless Temple though, but I'll let you guys sort that out. Cheers, — najzere T 22:31, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

The Dog Island images
Just wondering, do you want any help making Dog Island images? I'd be happy to make some now since I'm gonna do that movie walkthrough. Could we have images in the table of non-supporting characters, do you think? 10:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm a little worried about the fuzziness of some of the Catz character images, but anything's better than nothing. We can always upload a new version if we can get our hands on a higher quality picture. I moved the minor characters to a table because they're not really notable, and pictures of random dogs doesn't really add anything. Also, I was thinking of taking out the locations that are just in cutscenes, since that's a pretty pointless note. I was thinking we could either make an exception for Doluk (since he's not seen anywhere else), or just mention it in his description. — najzere T 10:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know, I uploaded a better version of that Bernard image on GSW. If you want I could upload it here too. 13:42, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I have made some kind-of good quality images of some on the minor characters. Take this one of Lesley for example. And also those ones of Sayori, Isaki and Bill that I just added. The only thing is it's hard to get pictures of characters who are inside... 19:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The two reasons I'm against pictures for the minor characters, is that 1) it's pointless since you don't even need to interact with them, and 2) it's impossible to get high quality pictures for all of them, as they're not all in cutscenes. Anyway, the table was to reduce the length of the page, and adding images that will be big enough to make out what they are defeats that purpose. Also, what do you think about getting rid of the locations that are just cutscenes? — najzere T 19:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, technically YOU put that there were nameless dogs in cutscenes on the table, so we should have them in the list of places there. Otherwise it's just like they don't exist, as there's places for all the other nameless dogs. Also, would you like me to re-upload some of the images Cadence uploaded of the characters? As in the ones that were taken from a TV screen, and just until we can get ones from cut-scenes. 07:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure what you mean in the first part, but do you have an opinion on getting rid of the places that are just in cutscenes? I've seen Cadence's images briefly, and yes, they need a lot of replacement, renaming and categorizing. Unfortunately there is an incredible backlog of unpatrolled edits since I took a four day vacation, so I haven't gotten to them yet (still on June 28's edits I think). — najzere T 07:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Basically, I think we should leave them there (you are talking about places with nameless dogs, right?) because otherwise it's like the dogs just don't exist. And it does say "behind counters at inns or in cutscenes" (or something like that) on the table anyway. 08:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You're the first one to say anything about nameless dogs. I'm talking about anywhere on the page, on any character, not listing a location if they're only there in a cutscene, because it's highly trivial. — najzere T 15:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought that was only nameless dogs anyway... oh! I see what you mean now. You mean not saying, for example, that Dr. Potan is in Green Meadows? And also, wow, we're almost halfway across your talk page ;). 15:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

SuperSonicRider and the DeviantArt Image
I replied to the comment you left earlier on my talk page. --SSRider 11:24, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: Dark Law
Thank you so much on re-editing the Status effect, It looks way much better without the table XD

I will try to keep editing with new things I encounter on Dark Law. For one thing, I found a weapon that can be use as a item, so now I'm kinda wondering to put it in the weapon section or item section, maybe even both. XD BrokenDream 17:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, thanks for adding that data! For the item/weapon, I'd just put it wherever a reader would be most likely to look for it. Good luck! — najzere T 05:09, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Multiple Upload Page
Hi Najzere, I was wondering if you knew what happened to the Multiple Upload Page? (BackLash 10:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC))
 * The multiple upload extension had a bug where it would overwrite existing files without any warning, however the new 1.02 version claims to have fixed that, so I'll bring it up in the staff lounge and see if anyone wants to reimplement it. It's a beta extension though, so stability may still be an issue. — najzere T 15:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
My apologies for making you cleanup after my edits but I am trying my best to improve my edits here and most of the pages don't need help and I am running out of articles to edit or improve on.(Noryb989 23:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC))
 * Like I said on your talk page, there is plenty to do on the Cleanup project page, if you're just looking for anything. For the specific guides you work on, I'd suggest making sure all the walkthrough pages conform to the same styles, meaning they are all laid out the same way and use the same formatting for different things, like capitalization, bolding, etc. Hope that helps, — najzere T 23:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay I'll give it a try.(Noryb989 23:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC))

After Years Images
Thanks for adding in those images to the guide pages in After Years. I was actually planning on doing exactly the same thing when I got the core game content finished. :D  — TheTwantalk 18:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, I just wanted to help out since you're doing such an awesome job on the guide. Keep up the good work! — najzere T 18:09, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Combat Arms NX Items
This is about the Combat Arms game article. Lately people have been editing to add a lot of Black Market content, which is how the game gets money. These are certain guns and equipment that you buy with real money. I don't think a strategy guide ought to contain this kind of stuff...

It also gets slightly annoying because Nexon, the game company, likes to take the regular guns, modify them slightly, stick a CAMO or MOD or SE or TR at the end of the name, and make it a Black Market item. And this clogs up the gun pages with unnecessary sections (ex there is a P90, a P90 TR, a P90 SE, a P90 CAMO, a P90 SE CAMO, possibly a P90 SE TR CAMO, there are probably ten more gun series like this).

So I'm asking if it's plausible to just delete all the Black Market related stuff from the pages, and somehow prevent people from adding it back. A strategy guide shouldn't be telling people to spend money...or something along those lines =\

compymasax 18:31, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, there's no way to stop people from adding it, it will just have to be reverted every time someone does. What I would suggest is just noting how the Black Market stuff works somewhere in the guide, and then putting a couple editing notes at the tops of pages telling editors not to put Black Market stuff in. There's really not much else we can do to prevent it. Also, if it's a user and not an IP, we can let them know on their talk page. —  najzere T 18:50, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Images
Thanks for catching that. Uploading images and their categories is one of the things I'm really unfamiliar with. It is always a relief to know there are other people keeping an eye out for things that are amiss.--Zaiqukaj 17:28, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, we all look out for the wiki and that's why it's so great! Images can be tough anyway, since it's the one place you can't show preview to make sure it's how you wanted. I'm pretty anal about the upload log though, so don't worry. :D — najzere T 17:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Request
If the recent changes log isn't too long, all MapleStory references of "Knights of Cygnus" (except for a blurb about its original name) need to be changed to "Cygnus Knights" per English naming convention. I'll probably start on it tonight or tomorrow after I review the rest of the latest MS changes. Thanks, -- 01:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I can get on AutoWikiBrowser tomorrow. By the way, on the MapleStory NPC page, do you need a template for additions to the tables like the MapleStory/Monster template? — najzere T 07:05, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going to say yes, because there are going to be over 100 on that page, but it's not completely necessary at the moment (because it's unfinished). -- 16:51, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, Knights of Cygnus → Cygnus Knights is done. I don't know why I asked about the NPC template, since I would have no idea what needs to be on it. :P So do we need to do an Ereb/Erev → Ereve replacement too? — najzere T 17:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. I've only seen one use of the name (Ereve) in game so far. Who knows if they'll change it again when the official release happens. And thanks again, -- 17:32, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Spore/Planets
Wow, that was a while ago. I think what I meant is that the list of Planet names is completely worthless because there are thousands of them. There may some information in the first paragraph worth keeping, but the page itself isn't useful.-- Duke Ruckley Talk 19:46, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm mainly concerned with the images, rather than reinstating the page. If there are that many planets, then trying to have a picture of each one seems kind of pointless. What do you think? — najzere T 19:48, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly... I'm sure one or two planet images to demonstrate the different styles could be useful, but beyond that, there's no reason for any more.-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 16:34, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Duke, are the planets actually unique (hard coded), or do they just use a combination randomized environments, species, and names? -- 01:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't know enough to say what is needed and what's not. Duke, if you could, would you take a look at the unused images and delete whatever's unnecessary? Three out of the five are really low quality anyway. Thanks, — najzere T 16:39, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

let me explain myself
ok i know that i put a guide request in the last resort page but i thought that was how to request plus there are some words i can't understand like "uniformly" and i write good here and i can't get the point of all the templates. i need like a youtube example. so sorry about the last resort page

and thanks blocking me because i found this funny video on youtube it's pokémon anime avgn audio mix it is pretty funny so check it out http://youtube.com/watch?v=E9ITNjFIOMU (warning: NSFW)

note: i just found the video ok i DID NOT upload it and PLEASE DON'T HATE ME if you don't like it
 * LOL, I just got around to watching the video. :D Pretty funny! — najzere T 06:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

OOPS i forgot that happened last time
sorry if the message copied again THE KING OF ALL GAMES 13:41, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Doluk's new name
I was at my friend's house this morning and I brought over The Dog Island to teach them how to play, and there was something really weird I noticed: El Dorado said "That puppy, isn't he the son of Doroken". I checked to make sure I wasn't seeing things by reading it over and he definitely said "Doroken". I thought maybe it was because they chose a male dog and a brother when usually I have either a female dog and brother or male dog and sister. I'm confused now :/. 16:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll test this 'cos sometime (hopefully soon) I'm getting The Dog Island for PS2 as well (mainly so I could have more save slots ;)) though it's not dispatched until august or something like that. I'll let you know what I find out! 16:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's pretty crazy. I can't imagine why they would change the dad's name at different times. I didn't notice a different name on my PS2 version either. Well, if you can reproduce it, maybe we can figure out what triggers it and add it to his entry on the Characters page. Good luck! — najzere T 16:31, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Doroken" sounds like the Japanese version of the name... -- 18:47, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And one more thing that my friend noticed was that everyone in Puroro Town has Italian names. 07:50, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Except for Donatello, they seem more Spanish than Italian to me, although the two are similar. — najzere T 11:31, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I hope you don't mind I re-uploaded some of your character images. I figure that if you think the old ones were better you can always change them back ;). 12:50, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, your latest images look really good. As long as the quality is improving, I have no problem with uploading newer versions. — najzere T 14:56, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: BSP Deletes
You can restore them if you want. Admittedly I don't know exactly how. --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 21:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Notmyhandle already did so I believe. It's pretty simple though – just click "restore" and put in a reason. :) — najzere T 02:45, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

i know what he needs help with
i was reading that message from the king of all games and i noticed. he doesn't understand the preload buttons he needs info each button. i also liked the videos he linked to. i hope he becomes an administrator

Re:Dog Island maps
If I'm honest... I prefer the actual maps. No offense or nothing if you made those maps yourself. Actually come to think of it I don't really mind which you use (it's your image in the first place). The one with patterns looks nice. 16:23, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I made them in an attempt to have a cleaner, larger map. I don't really like them myself, which is why I wanted your opinion. I'll keep working on it, and I'll let you know what I come up with if I can produce anything satisfactory. — najzere T 16:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just curious; what did you use to create the images? Whatever it was it was probably better than paint :p 09:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was GIMP. Unfortunately I'm not much of an artist, but I was trying to make something like this, which I think looks great. The main benefit, if we can get a base map that looks good, is that it will be much bigger and we can put walkthrough details on there like enemies, item locations, dogs, etc. That way we'd actually have useful maps on the area pages. — najzere T 11:22, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks good but also on the green area it kind of looks like it's been printed out of our old printer because of the lines :P. 07:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was going for an "old map" effect based on this one. I think it adds a little interesting detail to it. I was considering adding the effect to the water too, but I kind of liked the result so far. Anyway, if this style is acceptable, we can slap bug locations on it for that page, and then enemies, items and dogs on it for the Areas pages. — najzere T 07:20, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice. Isn't the Yellow Flower in the wrong place, though? 09:11, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps – I didn't do any fact checking, it's just to show examples. Did you have a preference on any of them? I like the "Sayori" dog, the "F" bug location and I'm kind of undecided on items, though I lean slightly towards just plain as long as it stands out from the background. — najzere T 09:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the Sayori dog too, and I think the Yellow Flower item thing is the best. And I like the D bug location. 11:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, since everyone agreed on the Sayori dog (you, me and my wife), that's in. Then you and her agreed on the flower, so that's in too. For the bug location, we all picked something different, but she and I picked plain ones, so I'll take the guidelines from the dog and item and say white border with blue inside for the bug locations. I think white border with blue highlights is pretty Dog Island-y, and it'll stand out all right on the maps. I'm working on the Treely Woods one now. I have to send my Wii in for repairs, and they make no promises that I'll get my save info back, so that may affect how long getting them all done will take. Even under perfect circumstances it will take a while though, with 24 areas and some having more than one map. — najzere T 16:35, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I would help if I could make sense of the GIMP download page :P. 17:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This is probably the link you want (for Windows). If you need any help using the program, I'm reasonably familiar with the mechanics. — najzere T 18:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I downloaded it this morning and wanted to know if this is the sort of thing you're looking for (but with icons on it). 10:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice picture! You've come a long way since your old maps from Dog's Life. :) Right off the bat, I'd like to see much bigger maps – I've been scaling the ones I've done by %150, for instance. The other thing is that all the maps should have the same style, i.e. colors, borders, patterns, etc. Just like the pages in the guide, the images should all have the same look for best results. In that respect it would be better for one person to do all of them. At this point I like mine better, but obviously I'm biased. :P If it's not that big of a deal (and I didn't think it was, since we probably would have used the screenshots forever if I hadn't started this project), I'd rather do them myself, but continue posting them beforehand for input, so it's still a collaborative process. I'd work on your techniques though, and make the Dogz 2 images any way you want. Of course if you ever want critiques or ideas, I'd be happy to give my thoughts. — najzere T 15:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The map Naj has released so far looks more similar to the actual map in game. I would agree this styling is better, however that doesn't mean you couldn't give us tips on how to do it in the same manner. -- 18:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Re Image categorisation
If you had waited you would have known that I was going to replace the two images that already added to make the non- console specific. There are at lease two more images I'm going to place in the boxart section. Sarujo 07:31, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No, It's just I feel that any game like this one should not single out a particular console. It would be like making a statment that the particular console was either the original or the superior version of the game.


 * Also, I really don't see the redundancy of the images if the is simularity to them. I had planned on uploading two of the three Japanese covers for the game. The same goes for the two North American arts.


 * No I've been getting these images from somewhere else and saving them in the PNG format, that's my thing. But I didn't know that PNG would not be a good format for these images.


 * And in case your wondering why I haven't added the already uploaded covers to the boxart section was because I wanted to get all the desired images upload before adding. Sarujo 07:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, would you rather I just replace the current Japanese cover with their censored version? Sarujo 08:07, 26 July 2009 (UTC)


 * You lost me, both Japanese? Sarujo 08:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Naj, if you're saying that you shouldn't have images for different systems if the art doesn't change, then that's a bit hypocrytical. 12:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Everything is fine right now. If you take a look at the main page of X-Blades, you'll notice that all of the box art present have differences. -- 18:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Melon, it would be hypocritical if I did the same, but I don't. There is a long list of things I did differently when I first started here and didn't know any better, but as time goes on I learn more and am better able to uphold the standards of the wiki. I don't hold anyone's first edits against them – I'm concerned with what's happening now. In the future, stay out of administrators' conversations that don't concern you.


 * NMH, Image:X-Blades eu cover.jpg and Image:X-Blades Japanese Cover.PNG have the same art and we gain nothing by having both. Thank you for another pointless talk page post though. — najzere T 23:40, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Colors are different, one includes additional text, one has additional background details, one's logo has different lighting on the sides... -- 04:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If you don't see the distinction between differences in the cover as a whole and differences of the artwork on the cover, then you've missed the point (big surprise). Things like system name, ratings symbols and company logos are put on top of the artwork and are interchangeable and therefore unimportant. The concept you don't understand is that of materiality. What constitutes a material difference? I can resize the artwork and say it's different, I can crop off three rows of pixels from the top and call it different, or, as in this case, I can darken the image and call it different. Allowing this sort of redundancy only contributes to page load times and used storage space on the servers, neither of which is StrategyWiki's goal. (Since you don't seem to know, that goal is to be the best video game walkthrough and information resource in the world.)


 * I know you're just an argumentative person and I shouldn't feed the troll, but it's not like I can just not respond to a post on my talk page, amirite? ;P — najzere T 08:33, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Those two images are clearly different; I didn't even point out the logos or console labeling, you did. Feel free to crop it, I don't care. -- 19:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VII Items - Thanks!
Hey, you read my mind with the table thing! I copied the format of one of them from another page, which wasn't too much trouble - but thanks for all of the ideas about extra item details! I hadn't even gotten far enough to think about all those yet - and now I'll be able to do them as I go along, too. I appreciate the help and the tips! --Kineness 16:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, FF7 is one of my all time favorite games, so I keep a pretty close eye on the guide, and every once in a while I go back and work on it a little. Thanks for editing it! — najzere T 17:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Pokemon FRLG cleanups
Thanks for cleaning my remakes and edits im still new to this and i still have some troubles with the tables alignments sometimes.
 * No problem. :D By the way, you can use four tildes ( ~ ) to sign talk page posts. Keep up the good work! — najzere T 20:51, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

thanks first of all, as for the images i uploaded, they're meant to have the "FRLG" in the middle like the first 2. but i haven't found how to do it.
 * Okay, no problem, I'll fix 'em. :) — najzere T 21:43, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: FF7 slots images
Resizing the images in an editor will just waste bandwidth. It's better to let the template scale them up, it gives the same results for less bandwidth. Unless you want some kind of blurring/interpolation effect on them. Wanderer 23:24, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What I mean is, if we can get a good looking image at the size at which it will be displayed, then we don't have to worry about it being stretched by the template. In an editor we'll have some options for reducing pixelation and otherwise optimizing the graphic. — najzere T 00:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: X-Blades ToC
Well, for now I'd suggest merging the three Sky Islands areas to make one Sky Islands page with three sections. But the rest, that a tough one. Maybe merge regular areas with the evening/darkness counterparts since it just re-exploration here and there with new enemy layouts. Sarujo 01:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Re:Alex
Alex is the only one, isn't he? Give me an example and I'll believe you ;). 12:39, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Or you could double check information you're putting up on the wiki. Anyway, when I get my Wii back in a couple weeks I'll try to remember. — najzere T 13:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you saying I'm making stuff up? And also what happened to your PS2 version? You could always check on there. 13:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Blanking pages
It means I'm working on it. That's all. I don't know if you noticed, but there are many sections of this guide that need my attention; unless you want to try writing this guide with me, there won't be a way of me working on multiple sections simultaneously. If you favour keeping poor content up on the site, then fine, I'll leave it alone. --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 15:21, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Arrow, I understand that you're basically writing the guide alone and you want it to be as good as the Midway guide, which, by the looks of it, it will be. The purpose of the guide is to help people with the game though, and so having something must be better than nothing, right? I went through that user's edits and cleaned them up, so aside from not being laid out like the rest of the guide, they shouldn't too badly written. Another thing to consider is telling a new user "fuck you" by deleting their contributions instead of trying to incorporate them, or at least guide them on what you're looking for. I mean, the wiki is supposed to be a collaboration, right? — najzere T 15:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's the question: guide who on what I'm looking for? People just randomly write stuff up and then leave, and I'm the one who has to make the guide look uniform again. As I can tell (from it being the Most Wanted guide according to the main page) a lot of people are relying on me giving them accurate information: I personally make sure that every single piece of data, down to ship names and what guns are on it, is accurate. I even cross-reference this with data from an Eidos employee I'm in contact with, to make sure that everything is accurate. Some data is inaccurate, not notable, not presentable, or just plain wrong. I don't want it to be "as good" as the Midway guide, I want it to be better - I learned that Prima released a preview of their own official Pacific guide, only to find that they're using data from Midway. This isn't just a guide, this is an opportunity to put Strategywiki on the map, by not just having the first only complete guide for BSP on the interwebs, but by even beating out the official strategy guide itself before it's been released. --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 15:39, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I'm totally excited that we have this opportunity and that you're this enthusiastic. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know. Mainly I've just been doing copyedit since I don't have the game. I'm not getting on your case about blanking/deleting because I don't want the guide to be awesome, but rather because it's not according to the rules of the site. Eventually you'll have rewritten the parts you need to, so I'm purely talking about interim content. All guides are works in progress to some degree, so maybe you can look on the bright side that someone at least tried to help the guide become complete. I think ZuuL155 (and his IP before he signed up) is a big fan of the game just like you are. — najzere T 15:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Blerian
well thanks for the tips however they won't help me much since i have a hebrew keyboard all the alt codes are diffrent. i use word until i'll find the codes for this keyboard. (Blerian 16:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC))
 * No problem, you can use the other methods until then. Also, you don't have to put the tildes between parentheses if you don't want, that's just the way I was displaying them for you. :D — najzere T 16:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

SW Meeting
Just letting you know the meeting just started. --Sigma 7 18:03, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Collapsable elements
I think if they defaulted to being hidden/collapsed it would be more effective. What do you think? -- 17:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * They're defaulted to collapsed on guide pages, but expanded on the main page and the Table of Contents. I'm making a post in the Staff lounge right now to explain more fully and open the discussion up for everyone. — najzere T 17:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

i was blocked
i have been cussing nonstop for 2 weeks why am i blocked how can i get this gone? you know who i am. k.a.g.
 * You're not blocked under the IP you're using now. Tell me the user name or IP you were using, or post a diff to on of the edits you made before you were blocked. — najzere T 18:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's, banned for vandalism and spamming admins. -- 19:11, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, well in that case, you were banned for a reason. Come back in six months and tell us how you've changed and maybe we'll put you on probation. In the meantime, read your talk pages and the Guide. — najzere T 19:14, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Blerian
I know i haven't been active lately, had some troubles with the army.. anyways, in Pokemon FRLG you should change the order of "Route 10" with "Rock Tunnel" since you get to route 10 before in the games. I will keep making the walkthrough tommorow hopefully. (Blerian 21:11, 6 August 2009 (UTC))
 * Okay, fixed. You can edit the Table of Contents yourself any time you like just like a normal page. There's a link to it in the Header Nav on the guide pages. — najzere T 21:24, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

SIX MONTHS!!!!!!
what day is six months from now?.

one of my friends told me someone is making a gift especially for you najzere its gonna be on youtube so you should see it

my question was up there↑↑↑

but really what day is 6 months from now?

warning someone put reversed music in your e-mail DON'T OPEN ANY YOUTUBE MAIL he's really mad at you
 * Six months from your block would be January 18, 2010. — najzere T 18:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

one more thing
can i still edit my user page or can i have one of my youtube friends edit it?
 * No, you're blocked, what don't you understand? — najzere T 18:27, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And if you keep this nonsense up, it's going to be a permanent block. You and your contributions are not welcome on this site.  Get used to it.   Pro  cyon  02:36, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

HnK/FotNS
Hey man. Yeah, I was trying to figure that all out, but the whole series is such a mess. I wanted to stick to convention, but then it got weird because the first HnK was a Sega game, and the first FotNS was the second Famicom game, which was actually the third game, and then you have the 1996 Banpresto HnK release and the 2005 arcade release (which was also entitled FotNS in America), and I just decided... screw it. This series isn't popular enough that people are going to understand what they're really looking for unless they just put either title in the search and get redirected to the category where it can be made clear. That being said, I welcome anyone else's ideas on a better approach to the problem, this is just my solution.  Pro cyon  23:15, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahahah. Okay, sounds like you took the only reasonable course of action. I work RC from the bottom up, so I saw what was going on after mentioning it. I like all the SMS games you're doing, it's bringing back a lot of memories. :D — najzere T 23:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Procyon is actually working through the Famicom library; it just so happens that many of these games are on other systems too. GarrettTalk 01:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but for the sake of completion, I stubbed Hokuto no Ken (Sega Mark III) in order to provide the first listing of a Hokuto no Ken title. And I recently provided the walkthrough for Renegade which was released on the SMS, but only in Europe, and before that, there was the reference to the Japanese only Rygar game that was on the SMS, so I have had a string of them lately.   Pro  cyon  02:06, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Super Pang name
So, why added "(Sachen)"? -- 02:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Technically, the title Super Pang officially belongs to Capcom. Even though the NES version came out prior to Capcom using the title, the Sachen version (like all Sachen games) is unlicensed.  Pro  cyon  03:05, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * From what I've read the arcade game "Super Pang" predates both the unlicensed and licensed ports. I was planning to redirect "Super Pang" to Super Buster Bros., which is the NES port of the Japan-only arcade game. — najzere T 06:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoops, good catch, you are correct.  Pro  cyon  13:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

X-Blades
How can you say that the new write up I did for the lead was bad. As compared to atrocity that is currently available, which looks like it was just plucked off the lead and gameplay sections of the corresponding Wikipedia article, it looks fine. The currently both leads has discrepancies, which don't set right with me. So I'm planning to do a re-write to that article over there.

Second, the plot section wasn't as you put it, "duplicated info from walkthrough". I merely rewrote the section from scratch, in my own words. Since it's all derived from the same source, naturally it's all going to seem like old cut 'n' paste job. Now, it was my understanding that the lead and plot sections are supposed to be brief summaries of what the game is about and what the guide has in store for the player. Sarujo 21:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Be that as it may, there were numerous misspellings and nothing was wikified (i.e. linked). The intro paragraph on the main page is for meta-information about the game such as release and development information. In that regard, what you had written was nearly the same as the Wikipedia intro, except poorly done. The plot summary was indeed a rehash of information in other areas of the guide, and the fact that all plot summaries will be similar for a game wherever you put them has no bearing. The "Story" section on main game pages isn't meant to be comprehensive, but simply to give a general idea. You cover the story better elsewhere in the guide, so there's no reason to put another, too detailed writeup on the main page. You might consider the saying "if it's not broken, don't fix it". What is wrong with the main page as it is? — najzere T 21:19, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Nearly idenical? As compared to what? If simularity was one of the reasons for the revert, then why is current lead being used? Here, look at the three versions:


 * Current revision


 * X-Blades is an action-adventure game for the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Microsoft Windows. The player assumes the role of Ayumi who wields two pistol-blades. The game was developed by Gaijin Entertainment and was published by SouthPeak Interactive and TopWare Interactive. The game was originally released in December, 2007 by 1C Company in the Russian language for Microsoft Windows, under the title Oniblade (Ониблейд).


 * Wikipedia's lead


 * X-Blades is an action-adventure game for the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Microsoft Windows. The player assumes the role of Ayumi who wields two pistol-blades. The game was developed by Gaijin Entertainment and was published by SouthPeak Interactive and TopWare Interactive. The game was originally released in December, 2007 by 1C Company in the Russian language for Microsoft Windows, under the title Oniblade (Ониблейд).


 * My current edit (per your comments)


 * X-Blades (Known in Russia as Oniblade (Ониблейд)) is a video game for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3, and Xbox 360. It was first released in Russia in late 2007 by 1C Company, and later by SouthPeak Interactive throughout North America and Europe, and by Ubisoft in 2009. The game is a hack and slash action-adventure that allows the player the opportunity to take on the roll of character Ayumi. A treasure hunter that wields a pair of gunblade and use various spells. The game would go on to reach sales of ruffly 29,680 units throughout North America, Europe, and Japan. It would be reported that the game, along with Big Bang Mini, would help distributor SouthPeak Interactive earn $13.5 Million in revenues. However the game was panned by critics for it controls, weak storyline, and its protagonist.


 * Now your wrong on two counts. One, there were wiki-links for both "hack and slash" and "action-adventure". That's gotta count for something. I Didn't add more because I thought that the page would become dominated by a bunch of red links. But I realize that's not the case now. Second, I don't think the simple misspelling of the word opportunity ("oppoetunaty") constitutes as numerous. I do thank you for pointing it out for me though. Unless your suggesting that gunblade is the incorrect spelling. If that's the case, you're going to have to take that matter up with X-Blades writers, as that's how they spell it.


 * To answear your question, the lead looks like a bunch of noobies block stacked whatever information they could find and then someone added the Oniblade information in like an after thought, which I'm too comfortable with.


 * As for the plot, I will go half-way and leave it out and give a brief honorable mention in the lead with somthing like "...A treasure hunter who unexpectedly gets caught up in the middle of a centuries old family feud between two immortal brothers during her latest adventure.". Sarujo 01:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the change, but I would revise it to (excluding revenue statistics and criticism, also note the break between publishing info and gameplay summary and the exclusion of certain gameplay information):
 * X-Blades (Known in Russia as Oniblade (Ониблейд)) is a hack and slash action-adventure game with an RPG element for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3, and Xbox 360. It was first released in Russia in late 2007 by 1C Company, later by TopWare Interactive throughout North America, SouthPeak Interactive in Europe, and finally by Ubisoft throughout Japan in 2009.


 * Players control Ayumi, a treasure hunter that wields a pair of gunblades and various spells, and take her through a linear adventure that explores indoor and outdoor environments where monsters are present in both preset numbers and in areas with "Monster Generators" that spawn both standard enemies and bosses until the generator is destroyed. Hidden power-ups and coin fragments can be found to grant upgrades are throughout the game. Power-ups include combat techniques, magic, weapon enhancements, and teleportation. As players defeat enemies, they earn experience points which can be converted into skills.


 * All of the content above should appear above the continue nav, and the story section should be written below, under its own header. -- 02:16, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I could go along with that, but shouldn't be "...and by Ubisoft in Japan"? Sarujo 02:28, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Sure. I've made the corrections above. -- 02:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Omg, all this time spent bickering about the front page when you could have actually been helping the site by adding far more needed content like walkthrough content... SW is a collaborative site Sarujo; if you don't like collaboration, you're in the wrong place.  Your work will be edited, by sysops as well as other users.  Don't be married to whatever you write because there's no guarantee that it will remain as you wrote it.  Pro  cyon  02:44, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * (Edit conflict) Oh I forgot, they're called artifact pieces not coin fragments and the skill purchase system doesn't require experience points, they require souls that can be found by also destroying pottery. That may seem like the same thing but the souls come off more like currency to me than experience, as the play loses their collected souls when they get a desired technique.


 * Omg, I have no problem with people editing what I've done. It's the removal of the stuff all together that bothers me. If the aforementioned problems my work had were simply addressed, I wouldn't have said a word. As has made several changes to my past edits and I've had no problem with as they were perfectly justified. But this matter is something different entirely. Sarujo 02:55, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

The issue has been sorted out. Continue to make changes to the content on the guide pages themselves. -- 02:57, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Tao
OK, since when is Tao in Pupsville? 12:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Melon, I've resigned myself to the fact that you must discuss every minor detail on the Dog Island guide on a talk page, instead of just making your edits, but what's with your tone? You clearly dislike collaborating, so why do you torture yourself and me by continually going through this process? Your adversarial attitude behooves no one. To answer your question though, Tao is in Pupsville after you beat the game, but before you leave to go back home. I imagine he was brought in so you could say goodbye to him, since once you leave town the player-controlled portion of the game is over. — najzere T 15:26, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I can't remember him being there. I'll have to get to the end of the game again and find out :P. Also you're going on like you'd rather I just edited stuff and then you'd go on at me for editing it if it wasn't right or something. Wouldn't you rather I asked first? And why am I "torturing" you anyway just because I ask you something? If I think he's not there in the entire game I can't help sounding disbelieving :P. Sometimes I wonder why I bother editing in the first place. 16:20, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Compare "OK, since when is Tao in Pupsville?" with "Hmm... I can't remember him being there. I'll have to get to the end of the game again and find out :P". If you can't see the difference in tone, then read no further, as this is a pointless discussion. I really don't mind talking about editing and Dog Island, but you turn the affair into an ordeal by acting like we're rival editors. You've said on multiple occasions that I've "taken over your guide" and you make throwaway comments like "Sometimes I wonder why I bother editing in the first place." I believe I've proven my breadth of knowledge concerning the game, so it's disheartening to be continually second-guessed by someone who thinks I'm on a mission to usurp her status as Dog Island's main contributor. Yes, I would rather you just take out the offending entry with an edit summary like "he's not in Pupsville". Then I would undo your edit and say he's in there after beating the game. Maybe this sounds like unneeded complexity to you, but I find it preferable to answering every niggling post of yours. — najzere T 16:38, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In the future Naj, just make sure the info is on the guide page so others don't have to clarify. What I mean is, there is no spoiler at The Dog Island/Characters that details Tao's Pupsville appearance. Also, his name isn't on the list at The Dog Island/Safe Areas.


 * Side note: I found a discrepancy: on the list, "Tom" is listed, but he doesn't have a quick reference ID on the character's page. I found him with Ctrl + F, but if you're going to use #Tom, you might as well create ID's using  for each of the minor characters as well. -- 23:13, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

And also, just thought I'd let you know, with polar bears if I try and walk up to one while it's walking around it just turns straight away and sees me. Not sure if it actually sees me before it's turned around or not. Maybe there's some kind of regional difference or something because a few times when I've walked up behind a polar bear standing still and charged up my howl, they sometimes turn around and then see and attack me. So they don't seem to like you being infront of them either. 08:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Character images
Since now all the characters are all together in alphabetical order, will you be wanting any of my minor character images (the good ones)? 19:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the purpose of making one big list was to allow people to add any pictures or information for any character instead of limiting things to certain ambiguous classes. Let's settle on two sizes for the images, 120px for the big ones we can get from cutscenes and some smaller size for the other ones (like 65–80px). Feel free to add any images, except for family members, where it's noted that they're the same breed as your dog. — najzere T 19:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm unaware of size limitations for this game, but I recommend acquiring the largest images you can and auto-scaling them as thumbnails. -- 20:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah but if we make them thumbnails we get that horrible frame around them. I think the page might just look neater if they were all the same size (120px) rather than having lots of different widths, as I found out with the Catz guide. 07:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Pardus
Thanks much for finishing up and the corrections. What do you think of a Commodities page, with the buildings that make and require them? Or would that be redundant? It can be derived from Buildings, but you have to look all the way through the list. Anarchangel 04:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's totally up to you. I don't play the game, so whatever you think would make the most sense to a reader and be the most helpful is fine with me. Ideally it would be nice to avoid any redundancies, but sometimes a little overlap is created in the pursuit of making things easy for readers to find. Let me know if you need any help moving stuff around, and thanks for working on the guide! — najzere T 06:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Image position
In the FF8 guide I'm trying to adjust the position of the beginning deck image to sit in the first section on the right hand side. I'm unsure how to do this as it always goes in between the two sections when I try. If there's a way to do this, I would love to know how. Also, thanks for cleaning up my mistakes and thanks for the encouragement.

Calicoo 22:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure what you mean, sorry. It appears to be in the first section on the right to me. Basically, whenever you float an image to the left or right, the top of it lines up with the top of the text below it. So with that in mind, try moving it around a little and looking at it with the "Show preview" button until you get it how you like. — najzere T 22:51, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

That's odd. When I was working with it, it was showing up in between the two sections. I closed out of the edit page because I thought you had fixed the image position and it was correct on the page view without me doing anything. :/

Calicoo 23:01, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's probably because I had changed it while you were looking at an older version. If you had tried to save the page, it would have told you that the page had been modified since you started editing. I think I know what you mean now by "between sections". You can stop floating elements from overlapping things below like section headings, by using the - template. It creates an invisible barrier across the width of the page to stop things like thumbnail images. Hope that helps, — najzere T 23:05, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Next stage of the CC walkthroughs.
I think that I am mostly finished with this walkthrough; I may need to add a dictionary of some of the terms and possibly more images of some important situations (Turn Turn Turn and Cloner's Maze, for example), but there also remains the "Pages needing wikification" tag. On the next time through the cleanup, everything remaining should be wikified; I can't see very many things left myself. Andrewb 16:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think the wikify tag is left over from before you added all the images. The guide looks good now, and just needs to be copyedited for polish and to remove drivel. It would help if you could explain the image captions to me – are those in-game quotes or something? Many of them would be considered "drivel" otherwise. Great job on finishing the guide! — najzere T 16:36, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Those captions are just comments and funny/whimsical statements about the level or something in it. How would I work something like this in? Andrewb 01:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In general we try to adopt a more professional tone in guide pages, so descriptive captions are preferred over humorous or informal ones. I'm not sure how you would work something like that in, as we're trying to get away from that, but if there's a humorous tone to the game, some in-game quotes or level descriptions would no doubt be acceptable. — najzere T 10:42, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Bullets?
How do I add bullets? I've tried using (* Some text here) but in the preview it only shows up as a star.

Calicoo 17:49, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Assuming you mean in a table, which is where I saw you were having some problems before, you need to start a list on a new line after the pipe ( | ) that starts the cell. In other words, your table would need to look like this:


 * rather than this:


 * Let me know if that clears it up for you. If not, you'll have to point me to the page having the problem. Good luck! — najzere T 17:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Perfect. Thank you very much.

Calicoo 17:59, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

FF VIII GF page
In the Shiva section, was I wrong for making the table 'not wide'? Is that only supposed to be used in certain circumstances? To me, it looks better without the whitespace between the text and the table, but if it's policy I understand. Calicoo 04:48, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The  parameter is used to avoid huge amounts of whitespace in tables, and likewise the   parameter is used when tables are small enough to fit off to the side. The information filled both tables to 100%, so collapsing them wasn't doing anything. Whitespace issues above and below the table should be handled in those sections. In this case, I think moving the left image below the bullets and sizing down the right image would fix things. Let me know if this change looks better to you. —  najzere T 10:42, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Instead of using your talk page I've moved the discussion to the Guide's talk page here.

Calicoo 13:45, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Secret of Mana edits
Thanks for the guidelines. I was using the same format as the Weapons subarea of the Secret of Mana project, which explains the table. Phoenix1304 20:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. We've got a whole project devoted to cleaning up pages, so eventually all that stuff will be eradicated. Thanks for pointing it out! — najzere T 20:45, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, I was on my way to sort out the images, I just wanted to get them all uploaded at once. I'll get this stuff sorted yet. :) Phoenix1304 21:37, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The images have been renamed, categorized and their links updated on the armor page. You can sort out the images best during upload, so that it's not necessary to go back in and change things. The armor page is looking good, keep up the good work. :) — najzere T 21:40, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Image Uploads
How can I check my upload history? I did upload two files yesterday with the correct name:

- MS_NPC_Lilin.png - MS_Monster_Murupia.png

So in the summary field when I try to upload an image version of Murupia, I have to write 'MapleStory monster images' ? Sorry for the inconvenience.--Spadow 20:36, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You can check your contributions to see everything you've done. Up in the top right of every page, it should be in your personal links along with links to your userpage, talk page, etc. Yes, you add (and any other applicable image categories) in the summary field when you upload. Here is the change I made to one of your images for reference: MS NPC Lilin.png. —  najzere T 22:03, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Sandbox
Can I use my sand box for editing and trying new things?
 * Yes, feel free to use a Sandbox page in your userpages, or use your userpage as a Sandbox page. Or you could use the site Sandbox. Also, please sign talk page posts with four tildes ( ~ ). — najzere T 23:08, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Images
If i just upload a image win the site pick a category that fits? I will just try to keep it simple
 * No, the site has no way of knowing what type of image you're uploading. You have to pick one, like or , etc. Also, sign your talk page posts. —  najzere T 23:21, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

MS Dunas Images
Hello. You have deleted a file MS Monster Dunas2.png. It was not a duplicated file. In Maple Story there are 2 Dunas monsters (the one with force field and the one without it). They are different monsters and appear in different areas. Vigilium 07:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, it has been restored. Please put it on a page somewhere so it doesn't erroneously get deleted again from the unused files list. Thanks, — najzere T 15:38, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Question on OOS Guide and Maps
I understand why you dissaprove my use of the dungeon maps. Notmyhandle originally suggested the use of detailed maps. Should I make different versions of them? As for the dungeon title, I was using that as a decoration for the page. It was just there to imply the specific dungeon. I was following up with the designs of the last three. Do you want me to alter the way I set up the dungeon pages? --|Superpowered  Mario  19:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * For the image, detailed maps are fine, we just can't use copyrighted images. Feel free to make your own, find compatibly licensed images or get written permission from the creator to use his maps with no watermarks. For the dungeon titles, yes they all need to be removed, per our Layout policy. Thanks, — najzere T 19:52, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Start a page
You said that this is the 3rd time you tolde me can you tell me where i went woring so I can do better?

Elevatorman138 22:51, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * When you go create a new page, look above the edit text box and you'll see four buttons. If it's a page within the guide (e.g. Yoot Tower/Page name), then click on the "Guide page" button and it will insert the necessary templates for you. You don't need to touch them (the Header Nav and Footer Nav templates), just put your content in between them. If you look at the image on your talk page, you can see what the buttons look like. Good luck, — najzere T 23:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Age of Empires 2.
I'm very sorry for what I did. I should've known better. Well I know what the consequences are now but at the same time, I was very suspicious of The Conquerors Expansion that some of the pages were ripped off from Gamespot Gameguide pages and that affected me very badly. If those pages were edited differently, then I would've changed my approach but what's done is done. I won't do it again but I don't know if I want to leave the expansion pages the same way. So if you check those pages, you'll understand the reason why it affected me to making such a huge mistake. Johnnyauau2000 07:56, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Call of Duty Modern Warfare.
I was thinking of setting up a new page for the Wii but I'm stuck with a split decision. The reason is essentially a port of Call of Duty "4" Modern Warfare made for PC, Xbox360 and PS3. I don't know if setting up a new page is a good idea or merge with an existed page or something. If you have a solution, you can resolve it for me because if the "4" is part of the Wii, than I won't bother creating an article. Johnnyauau2000 14:38, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * If the majority of the content is the same, and the Wii version is simply named differently, the Wii version should get a categorized redirect page, and an appropriate comment should be made in the introduction page.  Pro cyon  14:43, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I love to make it work but with so many different game title names that are either similar or disimilar, I can't stop feeling confused. I could end up screwing up too easily. I should've put it in the "Staff Lounge" area but it's too late already. Johnnyauau2000 15:03, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare hasn't been released yet, so we won't know for sure until it is. It's being called a port, has a different developer, is for a much weaker system (hardware-wise) and is spending an extra two years in development, so it's likely that much will be cut from it or it will be significantly different. For now, we need to figure out if "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare" should redirect to COD4 or get a main page with a future template on it. I'm leaning toward it having its own page for now, then redirecting later if need be. — najzere T 15:07, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. I'm just taking the time to look at COD4MW since I'm very unfamiliar with it. From the time I'm chatting with you, it's around two months away. Three or more for Australia I might add. Anyway, take you time and let me know on my talk page. Johnnyauau2000 15:19, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Aran skills
Hey, could you upload all 4th job images and two skill images from 3rd job. I incorporated most correct translations and skill data, if you added the images, I could finish the whole skill template.

Thanks in advance--Spadow 00:03, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You probably want Notmyhandle; I don't play MS or know anything about it. — najzere T 00:35, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Made my first page
Hay i made a game page! Check it out and tell me if it is good!

Elevatorman138 19:42, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, well there were some major problems, so take a look at Elevator Action Returns and Elevator Action² -Returns-. The first link is the one you were making (although you didn't properly capitalize the title), but the problem is that is the arcade game and you were trying to start the Sega Saturn game's guide, which can be found at the second link. If you look at the box art you uploaded, you can see the ². Anyway, good job on using the "Main game page" button to start the page. Next time you just need to properly wikify and fill out the infobox. Most of the entries are links (e.g. Taito not Taito) but the  parameter is not linked, meaning you would use "Elevator Action", not " Elevator Action". (Elevator Action links to the Elevator Action game, by the way, not the  series.)


 * Lastly, the box art you uploaded was misnamed and was missing the guide-specific category. I changed the name to have the name of the game in it and added the Elevator Action² -Returns- images category to it. So, just look at the links, go into edit mode and poke around and try to familiarize yourself with how it's done. Keep up the good work. — najzere T 20:20, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Image categorisation
Oh I did not notice that was the icon category. I have copied the file description from here:. There are still some items in the icon category. Should we leave them there? Vigilium 21:36, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if they're all named MS Item something then I can do it fairly easily. If there are other naming styles that aren't icons, then it will take a human who knows what the image is to change it. I'll see how many I can find. Thanks for pointing it out. — najzere T 21:40, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I looked at the MapleStory icon images category and it wasn't that big and there were only a few miscategorized ones, so I changed them. The MapleStory images category probably has more though. — najzere T 21:57, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Image categorization
Hey, I think I understand it now. You just add the Category:(category) tag in the summary field, right? I uploaded a skill (Freeze Standing) and added Category:MapleStory skill images & Category:Icons. (with the brackets)

Although, I don't see these categories on this page.--Spadow 22:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Something creepy going on...
On loads of pages I'm seeing content replaced with "doors.txt;10;15" and pages created with "doors.txt;10;15 " on them. Is this supposed to mean something? And also I assume I'm supposed to be banning the IP users who create/remove content from those pages since it's vandalism. 13:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Route 103
I guess it would go later on in the guide... Most of that information is completely useless early on because it is separated by water. I was planning on just remaking the page later on when I figure out where it goes, but if you want to undelete it, feel free. In fact, that might be best because it'll probably be a while before I even get there. Sorry about that.-- Duke Ruckley Talk 12:25, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, no problem, I know you know what you're doing – I was just wondering what to do with the image. I'll throw it on the guide talk page and you can use it whevener you get to it. :) — najzere T 15:05, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

RE: Scribblenauts
I would like to edit the ToC but I'm not exactly sure how to. It would probably be better to get someone whose experienced in something like that to do it.--Bentendo 20:47, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Just a second, I might be able to do it! Sorry! --Bentendo 20:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, just try it out use the existing links or other ToCs for reference if you need to. I'll keep my eye on it and help out if need be. Good luck! — najzere T 20:49, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Arranging BSP Island Cap Info
I was talking to a few contacts on the Eidos forum, and they've stated that "if the reader's goal is to learn to play Island Capture, I think it is more important for him to understand and remember the types of units at the bases, rather than the actual names of them.".

Now my question to you is, how can I condense the data that I have into something on a single image? It's a heckuva lot of data, as you can tell. I'm honestly not sure as to how condense what data I had into something comprehensible. The problem lies in that there are exceptions to the rules - for example, if you look under Base 9 under Dreadnought you'll see that it is the ONLY one that can spawn specifically light cruisers on the Japanese side.

Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. If you can't seem to think up anything, I'll just go with what I have currently. --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 17:41, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If I had all the information, I might be able to suggest something. If size/prettiness wasn't a factor, what would a section contain? What is all the information you want to give? — najzere T 17:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * All I want to give are the locations of the islands and what class of units it can spawn. It would mean reducing the tables into one or two letter abbreviations (DD for destroyer for example) and then shoving all of it onto the map. My major concern is legibility on the site. --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 17:47, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: categorizing
Sorry about ignoring the last warning. I thought it would automatically categorize the image under "MS" as I included it in the file name.

So lets say I wanted to upload another Map Icon. I would use the example Destination Filename of : MS Example Icon.png

and in the summary, I would write: ((Category:Icons)) ((Category:MapleStory icon images))

Is that correct? (Replace with [ ])

Sorry for the inconvenience. --SlipNSlide 20:44, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's basically it. You can see a list of all the MapleStory-specific categories on the MapleStory images category page. — najzere T 20:46, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
I'm sorry, it's been a while since I made something here (since May 2009). So thanks, I'm off to read the markup guide now!--Megamanenm 18:16, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. Let me know if you need anything. :) — najzere T 18:19, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Flight Simulator
So, separate subLOGIC FS from Microsoft's? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Microsoft_Flight_Simulator#SubLOGIC_Flight_Simulators -- 00:47, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's the gist I got from the WP article and http://www.volny.cz/havlikjosef/fshistoryenglish.htm (blocked by spam filter). What do you think? — najzere T 03:26, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Re: Controls tables
Hi, as I explain on this thread on the forums, there's a problem with the "standard" way of formatting control tables and a reason why I typically do it the other, slightly more complex way. Basically, for compatibility and accessibility reasons, Web standards recommend keeping content separate from presentation, and using header elements for cells that actually contain data instead of headers breaks that rule. Making the control images center-aligned and the text left-aligned is a presentational attribute and should not be implemented through semantic markup. Unless there is a valid reason to classify the control images as "header cells" (and "It's easier" doesn't count), the "non-standard" method I usually use works better. Wanderer 22:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)