User talk:Najzere/Talk page archive 201–300

Etymology of an arbitrary name
I've been opposed to this statement, although it doesn't really matter. You may or may not have paid attention its content, but what do you think? -- 07:03, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what the poster is talking about, so I can't comment on whether it's legit or not. If "Boylover" is notable for having invented a move, then I guess it's all right, although even if it is, it seems unnecessary. It seems like mentioning Billy Mitchell in a King Kong article or something. I figured since you've been reverting it you may know something about the game. — najzere T 07:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: Reflex.
Well I've setup this game for the Wii but I still couldn't figure out a solution, because of the name change, the content is almost the same with Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare with minor changes to it. I've already mentioned the titles, with or without semicolons and I doubt it would work the same if you move or merge it which I will think over. If you have a solution, give it a try and see if it works. Johnnyauau2000 09:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I transcluded the Table of Contents for now, but I'm pretty sure we can get rid of the Reflex page and just note that as the name that's used on the Wii version on the Modern Warfare page. — najzere T 09:41, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I would get a boxart image but that would be watermarked. Instead I'll clear the way for the Wii controls to be integrated into the pages already made by editors before I came along. Johnnyauau2000 09:54, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Main page story sections
Since when has the story section been deprecated? I don't remember the discussion. -- 08:25, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think there was a discussion. It's one of those creeping changes that insinuates itself throughout the wiki over time. The front page section headings are mainly found on the older guides and I don't think even Procyon uses them much anymore, although his main pages don't seem to follow any set pattern. — najzere T 16:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because Procyon fails to follow a standard doesn't mean we should follow him. This isn't something that just goes away; we debated upon the main page layout for like two months. It's important that we remain the same way. The only person that I've seen remove the story sections is you, Naj. -- 19:05, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't saying we should follow any one specific person (although Procyon probably creates 85% of the main pages around here), but rather update the guide to reflect the newest standards in use throughout the wiki. Of course I'm the only one that removes them – I'm the only one doing a lot of cleanup tasks. I'm not the only one that doesn't use them when creating a main page however, which is the point. Just like tons of other things I've had to update in the guide, story headings seem to be a legacy from several years ago. — najzere T 19:20, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that things have changed (e.g. gameplay information is sometimes included below the continue nav), but the fact is, if a story section is on the main page, then a header is required for organization's sake. Just like a block of text in a walkthrough, the main page is laid out to be clearly separated. -- 19:51, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's certainly not a fact that headings are required for organization's sake, since plenty of guides are doing quite well without the headings. Using them is simply for standardization's sake, and that's respectable enough, except that the standards have changed. In the past when new guidelines have evolved, we've updated the guide to reflect that, and I don't see why this one should be any different. — najzere T 20:01, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this change occurred because of our awareness of the negative effect of white space. -- 20:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, think of how much whitespace we'll be getting rid of if we can get Prod to let us have the collapsible infobox fields! — najzere T 20:56, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I think it's important for some games. The issue with the headers is that it they don't always line up efficiently with the infobox. I think we should have a more formal voting process for small issues like these that don't require bureaucrat privileges to put in place. Procyon suggested VfD. -- 21:30, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

From what I remember, there was never a discussion about whether or not a heading was required. However, Story sections are allowed on the main page, as long as they don't go into too much detail and become spoilers. They can also be on the walkthrough page as an introduction to the guide. -- Prod (Talk) 01:11, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

GTA: San Andreas
Hello there, just thought I'd pop in and say thanks for the copyediting of my inclusions. I'm not a native English speaker and sometimes in a hurry; reading it all on a tiny netbook doesn't help my case either ;) Cheers, Scoo 21:07, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, thank you – you're doing the hard work of writing guide content. Keep up the good work! :) — najzere T 01:03, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Template:~t
Thoughts? Also, I think Template:Assassin's Creed/vic‎ should be moved to Template:Assassin's Creed/Vic‎ since that's generally the format we follow for subpages. -- Prod (Talk) 21:47, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, I don't think anyone will really use it that much. It's more natural to make a template at Template:Ac vic.It's also less than ideal to have to put in "2=name=Bob" for named parameters. This would be good if we tried to enforce a guide-specific template standardization where all templates had to be subpaged off the game's name, though. — najzere T 22:28, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Meeting topics
I remember you had a few topics you wanted to discuss at the end of the previous meeting. Please start forum threads on them, and reply to the meeting thread with a link to that topic. -- Prod (Talk) 20:02, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this required to bring up a topic at the meeting? — najzere T 20:21, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It would greatly help (aka yes). -- 21:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

RoboDestroyer
Just FYI, I was trying to show him how to upload images and whatnot via IRC. Thanks for deleting them though, but I think you might have made him feel a little bad with your messages on his talk page. XP --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 23:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * OH NOES someone got their feelings hurt on the internet! — najzere T 00:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Image move
Hi, would you be able to move File:Modern-Warfare-2-Multiplayer-Map-Favela.jpg to File:CoD MW2 Map Favela.jpg (or something similar)? Will help to keep things organised. Thanks JordanH 21:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. — najzere T 22:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I noticed that we won't be able to use that map for copyright reasons - but I've found some of the overhead maps used in-game which people extracted from the PC version. They aren't that big, most are just 512x512, but would we be able to use them without legal issues? I guess it wouldn't be hard to annotate the maps with some of the detail from the strategy guide. JordanH 23:03, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, anything you can find from in-game screens is fine, and we're not too particular about only using small resolutions either. The only thing we should be careful about, is if the images have already been marked up at all. If the images you're talking about already have locations tagged on them by someone, for instance, then our fair use wouldn't apply. The screengrab itself can be used under fair use, but any work someone's done on top of it can't. Hope that helps! — najzere T 23:14, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * One thing I'm not sure about, if I take an in-game image under fair use and make annotations to that image myself, would the modified image still be able to be licenced under fair use? JordanH 23:35, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Basically we're talking about two separate licenses. The source image is copyrighted to the developers/publishers of the game and can only be used with permission or under fair use. Your contributions on top of it are licensed under whatever you release it as. If you upload it here, you're agreeing to release it under our CC-BY-SA license (like everything else on the wiki). As far as anyone else is concerned, if they want to use your image after you've uploaded here, they would need to claim fair use for the underlying image, and comply with our CC-BY-SA license for the added portion. — najzere T 23:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Deus Ex
If tidying wiki was a martial art - you'd be a dangerous man! - (Trevman 21:10, 30 November 2009 (UTC))
 * Heh, thanks! Actually I'm glad to see you're working on Deus Ex, as it's my favorite game. :) I'm a big fan of Hitman: Blood Money too, and there's so much to do for both guides. I don't know if you're into speedruns at all, but the Deus Ex one is awesome and Blood Money is pretty good too. Cheers, — najzere T 21:19, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Vendetta/Walkthrough
When tagging posts as potential copyright violations, it's traditional to inform the user about the content being located on the other site. This allows the contributor to more quickly suggest checking the first letter of each paragraph on the GameFAQs version (starting at the Docklands) or to provide an image showing that the user authored the content on the other site. --Sigma 7 19:03, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * So are you waiting for me to remove the tag since you didn't when you edited the page? o_O — najzere T 19:24, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Orion 1
I am annoyed that I was blocked for 2 hours, especially after you didn't bother to e-mail me or probably even read it when I e-mailed you. It would have been easier and more effective to just e-mail your concerns and have a discussion about it.
 * Sorry, I rarely check my email (maybe once or twice a week), so I wouldn't expect any quick responses from me there. The preferred method of communication here is through talk pages however. The messages were being left on your talk page while you were editing, which produces a big orange box informing you of this at the top of the page, so I was hoping you would take a look at them (assuming you weren't just ignoring the messages). Anyway, as I indicated on your talk page, it was more to get your attention than anything else, so in the future you might want to just pop in check your messages real quick when you're alerted that you have new ones. Thanks for putting in the navigation templates in your latest pages, it's a big help for us. Sorry for the inconvenience! — najzere T 00:27, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the trouble.
I see how much I'm adding recently. It's probably just a quirk of mine that unless there's an image in a guide, the text doesn't do much. I used to try and add images to Wikipedia, and they'd crack down on them within moments, so this is just a desperate attempt at finishing the guide without going through that same fiasco. I went out of control when I saw the excessive lack of images a while back. A lot of my images I've added for looks so the gameplay doesn't feel broken or staggered. Well, that's my fault, indeed. If you had a way of notifying me which ones are decent in terms of uploading and the best of my current ones, I'll weed out the rest. As for now, I'll stop uploading with the exception of key gameplay moments that define what needs to be done (true to Strategy Wiki). Sorry to be pestering you with a redundant mistake (and wordy messages). --|Superpowered  Mario  20:24, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It sounds like you've got a good idea of which images are necessary and which aren't already. If you go through and take out the ones that are just for looks then put the delete template on them, an administrator can delete them for you. Thanks for your speedy reply in the matter. I'll be sure to take off the guide-wide cleanup tags when the number of images has been reduced. Thanks for your help! — najzere T 23:12, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Overlord
Why was the Overlord page deleted? - Trevman 18:41, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The page at Overlord belongs to the original game. The guide you're working on was moved to Overlord (2007). — najzere T 18:43, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't aware there was other Overlord games, but you are right - apparently there's 2 other games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlord. As theres 3 games with the same number, would it be worth creating a disambiguation page at "overlord" linking to "overlord (2007)" and the other 2 games?, or as there is only 1 guide at the minute setting up a redirect page? - Trevman 19:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The disambiguation happens at the guide level with the game disambig template. You can see the links created to the other two games at the top of the main game page. We can't put a redirect at Overlord, because it should be a red link so people know it needs to be created. I'll create the original game main page later today so at least something is there. Hope that answers your question! Thanks for working on another guide, you're like a super-editor! :) — najzere T 19:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, having a page there would stop people (like me) getting lost and confused haha. I seem to prefer putting up alot of information, rather than tidying and doing little edits to make things as they should (I feel more productive that way) - Trevman 19:16, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Bomberman Max images
Hey Naj. I was thinking about the Bomberman Max images. The whole thing with those two games is that they function similarly to Pokemon R/B/Y, or S/G/C, etc., so shouldn't they get one image category? Just my $0.02.  Pro cyon  16:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure if they share a namespace. Should they be moved to Bomberman Max: Blue Champion and Red Challenger? — najzere T 17:00, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's a good point. S7 didn't set them up in the same name space, he derived two separate front pages for each one.  I think that you're right, they should be merged, with each individual title redirecting to the merged title.  If that's not a site policy for "multiple edition" games, it probably should be.   Pro  cyon  17:02, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well it's how all the shared Pokémon games are set up, so there's a precedent. I've also been thinking recently about how Smuggler's Run 2: Hostile Territory and Smuggler's Run: Warzones should be set up (and other games of this nature). The first is a PS2 game and the second came out a year later for GameCube with a couple extra maps and different vehicle specs. Although I'm using the subtoc, one's not an expansion of the other so I don't know if that's valid. I'm not even sure that Warzones should get its own main guide page. Besides working out stuff like this, which isn't documented in the user guide, we also have a major problem with categorized redirects which aren't seen, versus the automatic (mis)categorization on the visible page. Just some other issues surrounding non-standard game releases that could use looking into. For the Bomberman Max pages, if no one objects then I'd defer to your knowledge if you say they're similar enough to merge. — najzere T 17:18, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I would need a bit more information to determine if the games should be separate or merged. MobyGames implies that the level sets may also different, and not knowing degree of changes in Red Challenger change makes things unclear.  In either case, it's still one game for the price of two. --Sigma 7 17:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, there's no rush I don't think. Whatever you guys come up with, we'll just try and remember to make sure all the categories and whatnot flow logically from the ultimate decision. — najzere T 18:03, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Categorizing ports and different versions
I'm not personally familiar enough with Smuggler's Run to make a call on that, but it almost sounds like they might benefit from a shared TOC, like the way that Doki Doki Panic and Super Mario Bros. 2 do. Again, I really don't know for sure, but in that case, both games got front pages, but one deferred to the other for the remainder of the guide, and they shared a common TOC. Now by categorized redirects, I assume you mean redirects for games that were released in one region with one name, and in another region with a different name (e.g. Green Beret and Rush'n Attack pointing to the same guide, where Rush'n Attacks gets full categories) what is your primary concern?  Pro cyon  18:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Green Beret/Rush'n Attack don't have a problem as they share dates and developers/publishers. To use a recent example, Overlord was released as "Overlord: Raising Hell" on the PS3, but is also the name of the game's expansion pack. Right now there is one "Overlord" page for the game and "Overlord: Raising Hell" will be used as the expansion pack page. However, "Overlord" is categorized with all the PS3 information, as that is where rds and sys templates for the PS3 reside. Even if we also put categories manually on the Raising Hell guide, then two Overlord games show up in the categories. Even for games with a simple categorized redirect, if you want to put any release information on the page that's being redirected to, that page gets erroneously categorized with the redirected game's categories. I suggested on the staff lounge that there be a way to opt out of having rd and sys put a category in, but nothing came of it. As it is, we lump displaying information about a game and getting the game's name into the categories together, but at times it makes sense to keep them separate. How to do so is the problem. — najzere T 19:26, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you on this one Naj, I've known about this issue for a while. We could add a "suppress categorization" flag on to the end of those templates... not sure how efficient that would be.  But I agree, this is a problem.   Pro  cyon  20:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I was thinking, but Prod or someone else may have a more elegant solution. Maybe I'll open a topic on the staff lounge and people can throw in their ideas. — najzere T 20:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Dungeon Fighter Online
Thanks for the custom link and I apologize for any errors im making in structure. I'm still getting used to how the formatting on here works. I have lots of info for the guide but I don't want it to just be blocks of info which isn't too appealing so if you could do or tell me anything that could be done to make it look better it would be greatly appriciated.

Also The information that was under Walkthrough I put so thats its also when you click on Dungeons. The information in the walkthrough had mostly to deal with Dungeons and ow they are played so I fugred it best go under that as well. I didn;t want to take it compltely off walkthrough bcause i didn't know what eles you could put there. Anyway didnt know if it was alright or not so i'm asking. Thanks. --VampDrago13 07:20, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, you're doing a great job on the guide. :) As far as structure goes, we do have some formatting guidelines you can read about in our user guide, but for the most part editors get to choose how they want to present their information. It's kind of hard to suggest any layout tips to make it look better when I don't know what you'll be adding, but as you go we can see if tables or templates can help spruce it up.


 * I believe the dungeon page you made was moved to the walkthrough page, as every guide is required to have a walkthrough page. The "Dungeon" links on the Table of Contents and the Custom Nav point to the walkthrough page, so hopefully that satisfies both the functional and stylistic needs of the guide. Thanks for working on the guide, and let me know if you need anything! — najzere T 16:31, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I am finished getting the info for the skill statistics of mages and I tried to find a way to show it wihtout making a giant page but the skills have a lot of levels and effects. So i surfed around and found that the maplestory guide has a template that the chart can be shown or hidden. ([] I want to use it the same way as it conserves space on the page. Though I wasn't sure how to make a version for DFO. I also don't have pictures for the skills yet but still want the chart to show up without them. Also do I need the creator of the templetes permission to morph it into a version for DFO? Sorry for the question bombardment. --VampDrago13 08:24, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No you don't need anyone's permission, just note which template it's modeled after in an edit summary so the original contributor list is accessible. Personally I'd try to make a table from the data first if the skills are related to each other, as it can be sorted for easy comparison. The info in MapleStory/Skill desc templates isn't very useful as it just shows a progression, whereas a table displaying the relative costs and benefits of different skills can help players make skill decisions. It's up to you and it depends on the data as well. Good luck and let me know if you need any help! — najzere T 10:16, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

So maybe if besides just showing a table with the skill progression above it I could write some pros and cons of the skill.--VampDrago13 07:57, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Pokemon PAge Creator
I answered your post on my talk. Drew R. Smith 23:43, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Templates
Answered on my talk. Drew R. Smith 21:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Upload template
I appreciate your work on revising this template, but the message should start with a neutral or positive statement before telling people to change how they add images. This is needed to make the template less aggressive. Please ensure that the template uses an indirect approach to communicate its message. --Tathar (talk | contribs) 01:31, 16 December 2009 (UTC)