StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal

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Broken SVG rendering
The SVG to PNG rendering is completely broken. For example look at Wikimedia's rendering of an upscaled compared to ours. Not only is there no transparency, for some reason the smooth rectangles end up being fuzzy... any ideas? With behaviour like this, SVG is far less useful. GarrettTalk 16:51, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Was the original svg image just created using fuzzy lines? Thus whoever made it should just make another one. Other than that I have no suggestions ='( --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 16:55, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * They're both the same image. I uploaded the Commons version here. I recall Blendmaster mentioning the lack of transparency in the past, but this is far more significant as it indicates some SVG images won't be rendered correctly at all. GarrettTalk 15:48, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * We're using the default MediaWiki 1.9 list of SVG->PNG converters, so there's something wrong with the configuration of one of them, or something else wrong on the server. This probably a situation for Dan. --DrBob (Talk) 16:34, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm going to pin this on ImageMagick for now. I'll check out our phpinfo and php.ini and see if there's any additional info.  ech elon  14:32, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure why it would be doing that... IM and GD are usually all or nothing affairs. I'll take a look at the installations and talk with Dan about it the next time I see him online. --PowerMatt 15:08, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks Matt!  ech elon  15:47, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

InvisiClues
Here's an idea that would work for many game guides. InvisiClues were used in Infocom games, and even though I'm not a giant interactive fiction enthusiast, I say the idea has merit - especially when hypertext format makes these clues dead simple to implement.

I just blew my enthusiasm to hell with Twilight Princess when I basically looked at one spoiler from a complete walkthrough; if I had only gotten a clue that would have told me I'm on the right track, that would have kept my enthusiasm going.

So this is what I'm thinking - we could do InvisiClue-like things: (Highlight to see, be careful if you hit Edit as that shows the solutions in plain text, obviously)

How do I get to the north tower in City in the Sky?
 * 1) [ There's clawshotable panes here. What do you think? Clawshot from pane to pane. Duh. ]
 * 2) [ But they're not turned properly to get all the way, are they? Well, it would be cool if you'd make them turn all the time. ]
 * 3) [ There's a switch to make them turn nearby. ]
 * 4) [ Yes, that big fan on the outer wall is involved. ]
 * 5) [ That's right, the switch is on the roof of the central room. ]
 * 6) [ You've probably checked out the top rooms and figured out a way to shut down the big fan on the central room's ceiling. Ever wondered why you did that? ]
 * 7) [ Yes, so you can reach the central room from above. ]
 * 8) [ Clawshot on the grating on the roof of the above room, then lower yourself to the main room. Use second clawshot to get yourself to the ball switch. ]

The good idea with these is that initially, they give only hints that let you know you're on right track, without giving away the entire solution. For example, to my own credit, I already figured things out to step 7 without any assistance, but I was growing frustrated with the level and had no idea if that really was the only option that I should have been focusing on. Now I hate myself for looking at GameFAQs... --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 06:51, 31 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I guess it would be a good idea, I got these from wikipedia but what about text-only browsers and screen readers, it might also be a copyvio and people who set it so that text colour might not be changed. Other than these, it's a good idea --

Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 07:13, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Er, I don't think it's a copyvio; I didn't mean copying Infocom InvisiClues wholesale, I meant creating new clues for other games in the same format. I don't think the idea is patented or anything, and folks like UHS use similar scheme anyway. =) But you're right about text-only things, and (as said above) there's also the problem that hitting "Edit" will show all of the clues; if this is implemented, these things have to be considered too. I'm thinking of some CSS/template wizardry here. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 08:13, 31 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Actually, I don't think hitting edit would be too much of a problem, I guess that if you wanted to improve something then you should know the plot and the solution first. BTW try logging out and hitting the above edit button, you can't even see the source.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 08:33, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * This could be resolved by using comments (like this), but, yeah, I don't think that's much of a problem. GarrettTalk 04:49, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Umm...


 * Besides, chances are if they are looking at a guide, they'll want the solution itself, not just pointers (as Midna is good at giving those). The only problem with the spoiler template is that you can't read it without javascript enabled... (and if you have anything else concerning the Twilight Princess guide, leave a message on the guide's talk page or my talk page, as I'm the main contributor) --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 13:38, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

This is an interesting idea. One way of implementing this would be to open with a hidden set of brief numbered points, and then a non-hidden full walkthrough further down the page (like Grand Theft Auto III/The Fuzz Ball, only with the "Brief" section whited out). This way the clues would be a sequential solution (more like UHS) which is preferable since the "how do I?" organisation of FAQs has largely gone out of style in favour of step-by-step walkthroughs. It would also be easy to put a JavaScript-powered link beside each answer to reveal it with a single click, just like how YouTube's URL/embed code is completely selected when you click in the box. GarrettTalk 04:49, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

I don't think it's necessary to have game play descriptions a game's main page.
They're very nice and dandy to have around, but having game play information on the main page of SW guides is redundant. Take Super Mario Sunshine for example. It has both the story and game play information split up into sections, merged into the first page. Both these things [story and gameplay] are usually seen on a site trying to sell a game. We're StrategyWiki, where we assume the only reason someone would look up a guide here would be to get hints for a game they already have. For larger games, why not just give game play information it's own page?--Dan 10:23, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I completely agree with Dan. The gameplay part usually can find its home in the Getting Started section, and the story, if necessary, can have its own section (much like The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess/Plot). --The preceding un signed comment was added by this guy Whine-Vandalisms 10:46, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

StepMania
Hello, I would like to know if StrategyWiki can host a few fairly large large text file as a mod for Stepmania, it will be a list of steps for a custom song in the game, I guess I would licence it under the GDFL and if anyone wants to, they can improve it and save the changes. Does anyone think that it wold be a good idea?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:37, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If these files are not part of a walkthrough for the game, and are just a mod, then I don't think it's appropriate. StrategyWiki is for game guides, and I don't think we're ready to dive into the whole new cooking pot which is modification hosting. --DrBob (Talk) 17:58, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Guide completion
To help this month's Collaboration of the Month I've created Guide completion inspired by Prod's suggestion. This is experimental; the counts are done manually, and there are currently only lists for Sega 32X, Sega Master System, and Windows Vista.

Anyway, see what you think--right now I've got 300 Game Gear entries to double-check. :) GarrettTalk 03:40, 2 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Looks really good, I'll help. Couldn't we categorise alphabetically but with the little SVG in the categories e.gCategory:Windows 9x so we can quickly see the level. I've done something similar for the master system but having it in the cats would make it much easier.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:15, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * P.S, I mean editing how categories work so you can put to get it into the cat with a no.0 svg next to it, is this possible?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:20, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * That's not possible without changes to the software itself, and even then it might not be easy to do. I decided against putting images in because it would be difficult to upkeep, although it does help point out those most in need. Tomorrow I'll look into how difficult it would be to do a complete overhaul of the num system to allow templates like Wikibooks, meaning you can write  and it would turn into [[Image:0004.svg]] Golden Axe. Updating the num requires a child template to be edited, but if the sneaky hack I have in mind will actually work that will be easier to do. Hm. Anyway I'll have to see.
 * Right now I'm basing the entries off GoodTools lists as it's very unlikely that a game exists without having been dumped, whereas MobyGames/GameFAQs/etc. only list foreign/obscure/unlicensed games if someone adds them first. Of course there are no such lists for newer consoles, so that problem remains... GarrettTalk 04:39, 2 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Ok, what about putting these lists on the cleanup project so every month they will be updated, I think that would make checking easier. Or even another project devoted to that list?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:43, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

I think I've got a template that works, can sum1 check it out? It's here, to do this, you put which will give, the first parameter is if you want a cat.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:54, 2 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I've perfected it and the finished version is at Num--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:42, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * A few questions:
 * Is there any use other than the guide completion page?
 * Why include a category, it's not as clear as just typing, or are you trying to get a text link to a category (like Category:Games)?
 * Is it that much easier than just typing Game Name [[Image:000x.svg]] (especially if it ends up being a bot handling this stuff)?
 * -- Prod (Talk) 18:23, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * A few answers:
 * Possibly, but at the moment, no
 * I have absolutely no idea, I personally think having category separate is better. I really don't see the purpose of a text link, though, so I think Rocky was going for actually including categories
 * It saves 12 characters with numbered parameters and 3 with named parameters, so its a bit less typing, and I don't think it would be too difficult for a bot to handle (then again, I know nothing about bots)
 * --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:08, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Actually, Garrett, I think I've got an easy idea to put the game in all of the cats at once with the num but I will need a way to have an image as a title, is this possible with a hack?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 08:18, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

Pop the champaign bottles! 3,000 articles!
It's a mighty fine day, don't you think?--Dan 19:49, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * w00t!   --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:20, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I was gonna make this thread, but then I thought it would be more appropriate if someone else took the risk (3,000 isn't definite, aka "articles" could get deleted en mass as I've seen before). But yeah I was on the front page at 2,999 and I was like... hmmm.. and went ahead and started Evolution Worlds! XD StrategyWiki FTW! --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:55, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Site Problems
I'm having problems with the site, half the images aren't showing even thought they're there and it's changing skins to a very very basic one, does any1 know how to fix this.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:57, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * about 52/200 images are showing in categories
 * There's a problem with the media server which holds all the images and themes. It'll be fixed. --DrBob (Talk) 04:29, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not exactly sure what was the cause of the issue, but whatever it was, it's now fixed.--Dan 08:11, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Was thttpd down? I wonder if there's a way to check whether or not it is actively running so that if it ever crashes we can restart it. I do know for a fact that when the server restarts thttpd fails to restart. :(  ech elon  23:20, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well I think it's down again now but it's not as bad as before.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:14, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I just restarted thttpd. I don't know what the issue is. :( I'm thinking of making a PHP script (for Sysops) that allows people without server access to run the startup command using php's exec or something similar. (I wonder if that would work? I'll look into it when I wake up tomorrow.)  ech  elon  02:31, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Preload Templates
Does anyone think it would be a good idea to have a list with guide specific templates, e.g for Procyon's Pokémon pages or the FF7 Pages, these would have all of the templates alreay filled in and optional info as a hidden commentto be used or discarded, I've made my own for the Pokémon G/S/C guides here and the code to add on the end of the URL is: &action=edit&preload=User:Rocky/Temp%20Page. What do you think about this?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 07:14, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think that's probably introducing a little too much complexity, and it would have to be updated every time someone comes up with a new guide-specific subst template, or one goes out of fashion. A better thing to do would be to list them clearly on the talk page of the main page of a guide, so that new contributors can find them there. --DrBob (Talk) 07:58, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Color Scheme standardization and Pretty Table
Alright, so the use of Pretty Table is so that our tables look similar to one another, i.e. standardized. However it makes any good looking color customization impossible. Is this what we want? Bland, monobook/wikipedia styled tables? Even Wikipedia has some color in their infoboxes (see musician pages for example). Isn't blue cloud like, a main feature of StrategyWiki? Shouldn't the rest of the site reflect that difference, that this isn't just a plain website? I say something has to change. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:34, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If we have any people good with images, I suggest a banner at the top of the tables and infoboxes with artwork. e.g zelda, link and the triforce.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 03:05, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There was a similar suggestion for guide-specific header images a while back, which is probably a better idea. --DrBob (Talk) 12:52, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There's no point in putting colour in tables for the sake of making them colourful. Colour should be used sparingly (because it creates an accessibility nightmare, and most people can't seem to choose colours which don't burn your eyes out), and is typically dealt with by templates like yes and no. There are situations – such as the Pokémon RBY guide – where colour has been used to great effect, and that's all done with prettytables. --DrBob (Talk) 12:52, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It looks like Pretty Table adds a table to the header cells, see how they have padding or something on the top edge or so? I find that annoying and ugly, can it be removed? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 19:30, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm afraid I don't understand what you're describing, but you can always change your user CSS so that you've got different padding/margins for cells in the "wikitable" class. --DrBob (Talk) 06:52, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I might as well pile on here. While the "Viva la Revolucion"-like passion is admirable, it's not especially constructive.  One of the best ways to affect a change, (and the way in which prettytable became adopted as a standard in the first place) is to implement something yourself, and see if people gravitate to it or not.  If you come up with something good, people are going to immitate it.  If you come up with something that is more suited to your own personal tastes, people are going to leave it alone.  It doesn't mean what you've done is bad, it just means that other people don't find it appealing.  So to both Notmyhandle and Rocky, I would say that you can both serve the SW community best, and cause a change by doing and setting an example, instead of inciting debate.  Just my $0.02.  Procyon 17:09, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I'll see if my image editing skills are up for it. Just my 2p:)--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 17:12, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Football category
I've been doing some categorisation/cleanup work around sports this morning, and I think it's time we addressed the categorisation of "soccer" games and "American football" games. Currently, we only have a football category, which is used for American football games, and English (proper) football ("soccer") games are just categorised as sports. I propose we abolish the football category, and instead have an "American football" category, and a "Soccer" category. This is basically how Wikipedia does it. I would then have Football as a disambiguation page to the two; linking to it would be discouraged in favour of linking to the redirect pages for either category specifically. --DrBob (Talk) 06:56, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree, DrBob. I think that would eliminate any confusion.-- Duke  Ruckley  15:36, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Tools of the Trade
Thought that might get your attention. I was wondering, are there any tools or ways to take screencaptures of Nintendo DS and similar apart from using a darkened room and a camera? So far my attempts at taking such screenshots look amateurish and the glare caused by camera flash renders some images unuseable. I know there must be a way out there somewhere, they do it all the time in strategy guides and suchlike with very nice looking screenshots, but I can't seem to find or figure out a better way.--Froglet 11:02, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not legally liable for what you do with this software. :-P --DrBob (Talk) 11:18, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * StrategyWiki does not endorse or condone the use of emulators. I had to say that for legal purposes. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 13:45, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You're allowed to use emulators if you own the game. And (at least wayyy back when for old, old arcade emulators) you could use any game on an emulator for 24-48 hours even if you didn't own it.  But you'd have to delete it afterwards.  --ConfusedSoul 14:08, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No, it is completely illegal to download ROM's. Unless you yourself make the data backup and do not distribute it, it's illegal.  Here's a quote from Nintendo.com, "Can Websites and/or Internet Content Providers be Held Liable for Violation of Intellectual Property Rights if they are Only Providing Links to Illegal Software and/or Other Illegal Devices?  Yes. Personal Websites and/or Internet Content Providers sites That link to Nintendo ROMs, Nintendo emulators and/or illegal copying devices can be held liable for copyright and trademark violations, regardless of whether the illegal software and/or devices are on their site or whether they are linking to the sites where the illegal items are found."  Scary eh?  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 14:15, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Emulators are legal as long as they do not contain copyrighted BIOS code. Copiers are legal as long as they do not bypass copy protection (which is usually in the system rather than the media). ROMs are legal as long as they are made from your own copy (in the U.S. and some other countries) or you at least possess the game you have acquired a copy of (in some countries outside the U.S.). This is U.S. law. Nothing Nintendo says to the contrary can be used to press charges. For all extents and purposes, linking to any emulator (other than bleem! and a couple of others based on BIOS dumps) is perfectly lawful. It is only the acquisition and use of ROM images that we cannot support or endorse. GarrettTalk 15:52, 7 April 2007 (CDT)


 * This is turning into a discussion about legality of emulation... Nintendo DS emulators can't perform well yet anyway, even if you did legally have a ROM. I wonder how game review sites like GameSpot capture footage and screenshots? I've seen video reviews of Nintendo DS games where there is perfect quality video footage of games, from both the top and bottom screens, so there must be some way to do it. --VinceIP 16:00, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, as long as we delete the link we're OK. BTW Ubuntu linux has a link to ePSXe built in.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:07, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Vince, I assume they use a computer to capture images from TV's using a TV tuner. Handhelds would probably have to do the same some how, connecting either to an external screen or the computer directly.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:50, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

What have I been up to?
At the (dangerously naive) risk of assuming any of you care, you may have noticed that my edits dropped off quite substantially as of late. The last thing I was working on (besides the Pokémon Red and Blue guide) was The Tower of Druaga guide. I had to do a lot of research to find things out about the game, and I discovered more information on the PC Engine version of the game. But the game was in Japanese, and hard for me to understand. So I did what any sane, rational, video-game obsessed person would do: I translated the ROM into English. One day I was looking at the contents of the ROM and I realized that the text was neither compressed, nor encrypted, and with a little help from a coworker of mine, we set about translating every lick of Japanese in the game into English (with the exception of one sub-screen where the words are done in graphics instead of text.) I've been working on that for a little over a week and half and it's finally done. The screenshot here is proof of my work, and as you can see, I dedicated it to SW ^_^. I have submitted the patch to RomHacking.net so it should be made available to anyone who wants it shortly (whenever the next time is that they update their site.) Anyway, I should be resuming my regular edits soon, but if anyone has any questions about the ROM translation process, I'll be happy to answer them. It's good to be back! Procyon 17:37, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice work Proc, makes me proud *sniffle* to know such a great nerd. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 02:12, 8 April 2007 (CDT)