User talk:Namcorules/Archive2

Archived discussions from December 2006 to June 2011 can now be located at User talk:Namcorules/Archive1. Namcorules 15:31, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Before anyone decides to discuss anything on this new talk page...
...I would just like to make an apology to Prod and Procyon for demanding that they undid the pagemoves they performed on the guide for Namco's first 16-bit game, for not being familiar with the site's official policy for Japanese games being listed under their English names, and for boring them with a "ridiculous" in-depth explanation of two obscure cartoon series that nobody outside of the United Kingdom, Spain, and possibly Australia would care about. I only hope that they can forgive me too! Namcorules 16:00, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * NR, it's OK, there's little reason to apologize for all this stuff, but we do appreciate the thought. Naming guides incorrectly, or talking about something you really enjoyed watching are hardly offenses. What Prod and I really want you to understand however, is how to become a better author. When a user comes to our site, seeking advice on how to play a game that you have written about, such as Assault, Beraboh Man, Märchen Maze, Ordyne, Metal Hawk, Splatterhouse, and Valkyrie no Densetsu, and they see a giant wall of text with no images or paragraph breaks, and with untranslated Japanese text, they might say to themselves, "This isn't the kind of help I was looking for, I'll go and look somewhere else." We want them to say, "Wow, this is exactly what I was looking for, I'm going to come back to StrategyWiki every time I need help." That's what we're trying to help you with, to write guides that help the people who visit this site. We haven't banned you because you haven't done anything wrong.  Not listening to our advice isn't really a bannable offense.  But if we do give you advice, it's only because we want to help you, not make your life harder. I hope you'll take all of this to heart.  Pro  cyon  17:50, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope I can take all of this to heart, as the main reason I decided to include Japanese text in the guide for the Valkyrie no Bouken sequel is so any other MAMErs who decide to take a look at it will be able to answer the Nazonazo Phantom and Sphinmoth's multiple-choice questions correctly on the fourth and seventh stages of the game. As I have mentioned in their section on the guide's "Getting Started" page, a knowledge of both main Japanese syllabic writing systems (or a memorization of the questions' answers) is essential to it. I also tried to translate the text with the Google Translator, but it only romanized it. Namcorules 16:01, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Pac-Mania
None of the edits that occurred to the Getting Started page qualified as vandalism. You have to remember that StrategyWiki is a collaborative web site. Anyone may choose to modify the contents of a page as long as they are doing it in "good faith," meaning their intention is to genuinely improve the page, not vandalize it. You cannot claim "ownership" of a guide or particular pages on this site. If you strongly disagree with some of the changes made to a page that you have once edited, quietly correct them and don't worry about it. I sincerely hope you won't have any problems when I begin to edit some of your guides.  Pro cyon  18:04, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am fully aware of the fact that I cannot claim "ownership" of a guide or particular pages on this site; however, the edit that I corrected yesterday had not only referred to Namco's signature character as "she" in Pinky's section (along with Pinky himself), but it also referred to Spunky as "she" in his section when he, too, is of the male gender. Everyone should know that Sue is the only female member of the ghost gang! Namcorules 13:41, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's actually somewhat incorrect, although it depends on when you're talking about. Namco of America officially designated Pinky as a female around the time that Pac-Man World came out, so that could lead to some confusion.  Anyway, in all honesty, I know you care a lot about it, and that's fine, but sometimes you just have to accept that some people are going to think differently than you, or have different opinions, and that's ok.  If you feel strongly about it, go ahead and change it back.  Otherwise, don't worry about it too much.  Focus on what you think is important, and keep doing what makes you happy.   Pro  cyon  16:52, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The time I am talking about is when Namco of Japan originally created the character in 1980 A.D., and all four original members of the ghost gang were assumed to be male. However, when their US distributor, Midway Games created the unauthorised sequel Ms. Pac-Man in the following year, they replaced Clyde with another orange ghost (the aforementioned Sue, whose colour was later changed to purple in Pac-Land to differentiate her from Clyde). The Pac-Man cartoon series produced by the H-B Corporation (who are more famous for The Flintstones, Top Cat, The Jetsons and Scooby Doo), also reflected the fact that Pinky was a male by giving him a gruff voice and a tough-guy personality. Namcorules 09:10, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

SC V?
Can I start the Soul Calibur V page Namco? --Passiondragon23 15:15, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Why ask me? I'm not an administrator on this site, and probably never will be. I'm just a British MAME user who decided to sign up with this site in 2006 because I thought I possessed far too much knowledge about one of the largest videogame-developing entities in Japan (along with the earlier years of their 2 United States distributors as a result of it) to keep to myself. So, yes, go ahead with creating that page if you want to. Namcorules 15:30, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Something I think you'd be interested in
Hey there Namcorules. Since you seem to have much knowledge of Namco's arcade titles, I was wondering if you'd like to take a read of this fan-concept for "the perfect Namco Museum title".

Link

Enjoy. Superjustinbros. 03:39, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I followed your link to your weblog, Superjustinbros., and read your post from top to bottom - but tell me, how would some of the games on the third floor bump the PEGI rating up to 13+? And by the way, you forgot to include Blazer, Final Lap, World Stadium, Beraboh Man, Metal Hawk, World Court, Splatterhouse, Mirai Ninja, Face Off, Phelios, Winning Run, Dirt Fox, Finest Hour, Four Trax, Winning Run Suzuka GP, Dangerous Seed, Marvel Land, Galaxian³, Kyūkai Dōchūki, Final Lap 2, Pistol Daimyo no Bōken, Steel Gunner, Golly! Ghost!, Starblade, Solvalou, Steel Gunner 2, Golly! Ghost! 2, Suzuka 8 Hours, Bakuretsu Quiz Ma-Q no Daibōken, Final Lap 3, FA, Cosmo Gang the Puzzle, Exvania, Super World Court, Knuckle Heads, Lucky and Wild, Air Combat, Net-tō! Geki-tō! Quiz-tō!!, Numan Athletics, Ridge Racer, Great Sluggers, Tinkle Pit, Nebula's Ray, Great Sluggers '94, J-League Soccer V-Shoot, Gun Bullet, Ridge Racer 2, Ace Driver, The Outfoxies, Mach Breakers, Air Combat 22, Xevious 3D/G, Cyber Commando, Alpine Racer, Rave Racer, Dunk Mania, Soul Edge, Prime Goal EX, Prop Cycle, Soul Calibur, and Aqua Rush in your game lineup. Namcorules 15:25, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I've added some of your recommendations to the list, some of which I had intended to add before but got a little carried away writing the list that I forgot to insert them. Some of the ones you listed above were already on the list prior to the update, such as Beraboh Man/Bravoman.
 * Its name was only changed to "Bravoman" when it was ported to the North American TurboGrafx-16 in 1990! Namcorules 16:18, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

The reason why I had stated that some of the games would "bump up" the PEGI age rating to T/13+ if this ever became a commercial release was because of several reasons, the most notable I can think of off the bat were Wonder Momo's "panty shots" and Yōkai Dōchūki's heavy religious theme.
 * Nice job putting Namco's last eight-bit game and their first sixteen-bit game next to each other there! Namcorules 16:18, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * As for the other games I have not included, here are their reasons.


 * World Stadium, World Court, Face Off, Kyūkai Dōchūki, Super World Court, Numan Athletics, Great Sluggers, League Soccer V-Shoot, Mach Breakers, Dunk Mania, Prime Goal EX, Prop Cycle - All sports games. Not that I have anything against sports games, but I just feel that this collection would be better off without those.
 * Splatterhouse - I heard the game, which starred a Jason Voorhees lookalike, got negative reviews on various websites. But that's just according to my knowledge. I just don't have much desire to include Splatterhouse.
 * Four Trax, Suzuka 8 Hours, Lucky and Wild, Ridge Racer, Ace Driver, Alpine Racer - Pole Position and Final Lap, along with their two and three sequels, both have essentially the same gameplay to these titles. And I feel as if there are enough racing games in this collection. Yeah, I'm a big fan of racing games, but still.
 * Galaxian³, Attack of the Zolgear, Solvalou and Xevious 3D/G - There are enough shooters in this collection.
 * Steel Gunner, Steel Gunner 2, Golly! Ghost!, Golly! Ghost! 2 - All of these games, the second two of which were electro-mechanical/videogame hybrids, used the external-light-gun-mounted-onto-console control format.
 * Cosmo Gang: The Puzzle - This collection already has two versions of the Sega Genesis/Super Famicom title Pac-Attack, which CGTP's gameplay had inspired (and replaced the Cosmo Gang characters with Pac-Man ones).
 * Knuckle Heads, Tekken, The Outfoxies, Soul Edge, Soul Calibur - All "versus" fighting games. While I do enjoy playing them from time to time, the feeling to feature these is the same as with the sports titles.
 * Bakuretsu Quiz Ma-Q Daibōken, Net-tō! Geki-tō! Quiz-tō!! - I quote the Angry Video Game Nerd: "Quizzes aren't fun! Quizzes make you feel like you're in school!" (He obviously didn't learn to read Japanese!)


 * Anyway, thank you for your time. Superjustinbros. 03:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Because I am a native inhabitant of the United Kingdom, I am not familiar with the quotes of the Angry Video Game Nerd; but as I have mentioned in brackets above, he obviously has not learnt to read Japanese, which must be the reason why he thinks that quiz games aren't "fun" and make him feel like he is "back in school". The Nazonazo Phantom, from the fourth stage of Valkyrie no Densetsu, would also ask one of three multiple-choice questions when you met up with him - if you answered it correctly, he would give you four circles on your magic meter, but if you answered it incorrectly, he would take a full life-heart from you. Sphinmoth, however, only had a single multiple-choice question to ask when you met up with him at the end of the seventh stage; if you selected answer A, he would lift up his left leg to reveal a hidden staircase leading to a secret room where you would be drawn into a fight with two Purple Goblins, two Blue Kaokkusu and two red versions of the Tarosu. However, if you selected to answer B, he would lift up his right leg to reveal another hidden staircase leading to another secret room where you would be treated to each of the game cutscenes in a scrambled format - but if you selected answer C, he would not lift either of his legs up and you would be forced to replay the entire stage again, meaning that selecting answer C was not good. Namcorules 16:56, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * By "quiz games", I meant the ones where the whole game was nothing but answering questions. Valkyrie no Densetsu was an exception to this rule, given that it was more of a basic overhead-view platformer/shooter. Superjustinbros. 05:08, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Therefore, you must be referring to Bakuretsu Quiz Ma-Q no Daibōken, Net-tō! Geki-tō! Quiz-tō!!, Kosodate Quiz My Angel and Derby Quiz My Dream Horse (the last two of which I did not mention above). Namcorules 13:50, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Editing other people's comments
I noticed your discussion above with Superjustinbros, and would just like to point out that it's impolite to modify other people's comments on a talk page. By changing their comments you may inadvertently change what they mean. -- Prod (Talk) 18:21, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I apologise if I have offended you by doing it, Prod - and I will try not to do it again in the future. Namcorules 14:57, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Dangerous Seed pages
Hi NR. You do not have to worry, I was not at all offended by the inclusion of all the 16-bit titles. I just felt that it wasn't something that the average reader would be able to appreciate. Few people have the same love for all things Namco that you do. To be honest, I think it would be cool if you started a Namco wiki, since you are definitely a wealth of Namco information. While a lot of that information is in-scope for StrategyWiki, some of it is not. If you started a Namco wiki, you could house the additional information there. As for the Dangerous Seed pages, Prod has expressed some concern about deleting the original walkthrough pages too soon, but I will take a look and see if in fact there's no more reason to keep them around any more.

One last thing. I happen to notice that when you type, you have a tendency to add an extra M or N to the end of words sometimes. For example, you type "themm" when you mean "them," or "suddenn" when you mean "sudden". Which browser do you edit with? Because if you use Firefox, it will underline misspelled words for you and make it easier for you to correct them. If you have a chance, go through some of your pages, and see if you can spot your redoubled "M"s and "N"s. Thanks.  Pro cyon  17:00, 8 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I cannot help the fact that a lot of my consonants are being involuntarily redoubled at the moment - given that I am editing from Internet Explorer on an old laptop (which is also used by my Mum, Dad and sister), a lot of the keys are not as responsive as they used to be. It is also not easy to notice that your consonants are being involuntary redoubled at the end of words when you are using MAME as a visual aid for a guide. Namcorules 14:54, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry NR. Please understand that I'm not trying to be mean or single you out here, but I simply don't accept that explanation as an excuse. You know that I write a lot of guides, and I know how difficult it is to proof read my work while I am writing, but I make an effort to do so, so you should too. The other thing that is weird about your explanation is that I don't see any examples of when M and N are doubled up in the middle of your words, only the end. You can fix this problem if you want to. If you decide you simply don't want to, that says something about how important the quality of your work is to you.  Pro  cyon  14:59, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * You're not going to ban me for this, are you? Because it's not as if these redoublings are my own fault. Namcorules 15:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * A) No one will ever get banned for making typos.
 * B) The typos are ultimately your responsibility, as they are part of your contributions, even if you claim the hardware is at fault.
 * C) What did Prod tell you about altering other people's posts? ;)  Pro cyon  16:16, 9 September 2011 (UTC)


 * He told me that by changing their comments I may inadvertently change what they mean - I forgot. ;( Namcorules 16:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Galaga '88 walkthrough
Hi NR. I know you're not going to like this very much, but I am considering rolling back the changes you made to Galaga '88/Walkthrough. I am considering this, not because what you wrote is bad, but because what was there was better, and much easier to read. It's one thing when there's no existing content on a page, and what you add can be considered a start. But you took a well-formatted page, and turned it into another block of text. I'm going to rollback the changes, and what I'd like you to do is to find a way to enhance the existing information rather than simply replacing it. Let me know if you have any problems, or would like some suggestions.  Pro cyon  15:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'm not going to roll it back, particularly because a) I don't know what information you took from that page and added to Galaga '88/Getting Started and because b) you look like the original author of the previous revision, at least according to the history. If you were the original author, I want to say that the first version of that page is much better than what you ended up replacing it with.  If you can at all get it back to the way the first version looked, I would appreciate it.  Thanks.   Pro  cyon  15:44, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised you didn't notice I have requested for "Image:G8 Hiyori.gif" should be renamed to "Image:G8 Hiyoko.gif"! Namcorules 14:42, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

For the last time...
...none of the pages on this site are "my" pages. Just like none of the pages on StrategyWiki are "your" pages. It doesn't matter who starts a page, ANYONE is free to edit ANY page. There is no ownership of work on StrategyWiki. You don't need permission or forgiveness to edit a page. No one needs your permission to edit a page that you created. Please understand this.  Pro cyon  16:44, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * When have I ever said that any of the pages on the site were "my" pages? And I am also fully aware of the fact that nobody needs my permission to edit a page that I created (which explains why the ghosts' names and genders on Pac-Mania's "Getting Started" keep being changed occasionally), but I thought that because you were an Administrator, I did need your permission to edit a page that you had created. By the way, I knew you would have some kind of problem with me inserting the fact that Super Pac-Man was the first game from Namco to use a Motorola M6809 microprocessor into the Getting Started page of the original Pac-Man - in fact, it used two, and six other Namco games used that hardware setup between 1983 and 1985. Namcorules 15:49, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * People with administrative privileges are no different than any other user, they're just trusted with additional permissions to fight vandalism and keep things running smoothly. Every user should be editing in good faith to improve the quality of the guides to help everyone. -- Prod (Talk) 16:13, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Hardware specs
Hi NR. Hardware specs, such as which arcade was the first to use which processor, are out of scope for StrategyWiki. It's appropriate for Wikipedia, but this is not the kind of information our visitors come to look for. The only place where it is acceptable to mention this information is very briefly on the introduction to a game, and only for that game. In other words, if you want to talk about Super Pac-Man's processors, please just put one sentence about it on the Super Pac-Man front page, and no where else in the guide. Please especially do not include hardware information about one game on another game's guide (e.g. talking about Super Pac-Man's hardware in the Ms. Pac-Man guide.) Thanks.  Pro cyon  22:40, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Pac-Land/Environments‎
I doubt that I need to inform you that I've been tracking all of the edits that you've done to the various Pac-Man pages and revising them. Until now, I've been content to simply proof read your edits and make any corrections I felt necessary. However, after reading the changes you made to Pac-Land/Environments‎, I have simply decided to revert the entire page, as the amount of grammatical mistakes I kept finding were simply too great for me to try and fix every single one. I was hoping that you'd examine the changes I made and learn from them, but since that doesn't seem to be the case, I will list some of the common issues that I continuously come across and correct. I do not want to discount or discard your contributions to the site, but I cannot approve of edits to existing content that add information at the expense of making them significantly harder to read or follow. You are welcome to edit Pac-Land/Environments‎ again, but if your edits continue to contain a large number of the errors listed above, I'm going to have to revert your work again. Please take all of this into consideration.  Pro cyon  19:11, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * By far, the number one most egregious issue is your insertion of commas where they absolutely don't belong. For example, in two consecutive sentences, you added the following commas:
 * "Some trees pass between Pac-Man_,_{1} and your view of him, but these obstructions are small_,_{2} and temporary."
 * "You should be more concerned_,_{3} about the ghosts_,_{4} whose positions are obscured by the trees"
 * You can't put the comma after "Pac-Man" because the sentence is trying to convey who the tress pass between. They pass between "Pac-Man and your view of him."  There is no break in that clause, it is one single object.
 * While technically you can put a comma between "small" and "and temporary" because it's a list of things, it's generally agreed upon that you shouldn't when the list is only composed of two items.
 * You definitely cannot put a comma between "concerned" and "about," that is absolutely incorrect. "Concerned about" is one single thought clause.
 * It is incorrect to put a comma between "ghosts" and "whose" because the "whose" is identifying which ghosts are the ones you need to be more concerned about. Putting a comma after ghosts changes the meaning of the sentence to the need to be concerned about ALL of the ghosts, because ALL of the ghosts are obscured by trees, and that is not a correct statement.
 * You cannot continuously reference where things came from. E.g. You already specified that the Lucky Pac symbol is an homage to the L Flag in New Rally X in the "Getting Started" page, and that is the appropriate place to put it.  You may not continue to point that out every single time the Lucky Pac symbol is mentioned.  Explain it once in the proper location, and no more.
 * There is extremely little value added to the guide by pointing out that the power pellets happen to work the same way as in all of the previous Pac-Man titles. It does not help the reader understand how they work any better than if the statement was not included.
 * Game summaries are meant to be just that: summaries. Summaries do not include every minute detail about a game.  Summaries only contain as much information as necessary to convey the basic concept of the game and no more.  Please stop padding the summaries with more and more information, unless you feel that something extremely important and obvious was missing.


 * You're not going to ban me for this, are you? Because if I have offended you with my edit, it was not my intention at all! Namcorules 15:50, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * You have not, nor would you ever, offend me with your edits.
 * Barring any malicious behavior on your part, which I would never expect from you, I can safely say that you are never going to be banned from this site.  Pro  cyon  15:56, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
 * In fairness, I should probably also say that, while I do not agree with all of the changes that you make to the guides, I do appreciate and see value in some of what you contribute. If I did not, I would have simply reverted every change that you made in their entirety.  Instead, I try to keep as much of your contributions as possible because there are pieces of information that you provide that are genuinely interesting.  It's just a matter of making a distinction between information that is useful versus information that decreases clarity.  I simply had too difficult of a time making those distinctions yesterday on Pac-Land/Environments‎, and concluded that I should communicate with you and give you another attempt at editing the page.   Pro  cyon  16:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

More advice
Hi NR. I just finished reviewing the edits to Pac-Land/Walkthrough, and they were very much improved. You do appear to insert more words than are necessary. Here are a few more tips.
 * You seem to add a lot of commas before the word "so," but this is correct only in some cases and not others. For example, if you say, "If you do A then B will occur, so do C," it is appropriate to put a comma before so since you are introducing a new clause.  However, if you say "Do A so that B occurs," it is not correct to put a comma before so, as it is explaining the reason behind doing A.
 * Similarly, there is no need to put a comma before "if" as it conveys more of the sentence subject. For example, "do A if you want B."  You should not put a comma before "if" because placing one there breaks the singular clause into two separate (even if related) concepts.
 * You see to like to convert verbs from the simple present tense (e.g. perform) to the future continuous tense (e.g. will be performing), but this doesn't make the guide any clearer. Readers understand that the guide is written from the perspective that the action is happening in the present.  If you put it in the future tense, they may not understand to expect that behavior to occur as they are playing, but some time in the future.
 * You also like to break contractions (e.g. don't) into their constituent parts (e.g. do not). While there's nothing wrong with this, there's nothing wrong with contractions.  Unless there is an obvious grammatical error with the contractions, it's usually more polite to leave the original author's style in place.  Once again, that is polite, but not required.
 * Finally, there are certain things that you seem to point out continuously that really aren't necessary. For example, it should be obvious to any reader who read the rest of the guide that Sue is the only ghost without a hat.  It's not necessary to continue pointing that out, and it might potentially insult the intelligence of the reader.  Furthermore, spelling out obvious consequences of an action, such as if you run out of time, you will lose a life, is also not necessary since you can largely assume that the reader already knows this, either through experience, or by reading the appropriate section of the guide about time.  Pro  cyon  19:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * If you run out of time in Pac-Land, Pac-Man will not die automatically; he will only die if Sue catches up with him. Namcorules 15:30, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


 * And that's why you drive me nuts sometimes...  Pro cyon  16:31, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey, I've never said anything like that about you, Pro! Yes, I may have bored you when I pointed out that Babasama from Valkyrie no Densetsu looked like a character from a show that only Britons and Spaniards have heard of six months ago, but I have never said anything like that about you or any of the other administrators because it's not in my nature!Namcorules 16:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)


 * No, you're right, and I apologize to you.  Pro  cyon  17:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Dig Dug
Yea, based on your edit summary, that's what I figured. But having the acronym on the page with no other context would make it much more difficult for any other visitors to figure out as well. It's simpler to just omit the acronym than to try and explain it in the infobox. -- Prod (Talk) 16:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Roman numerals
Games which do, or do not, display the year in roman numerals is definitely out-of-scope for this site. It is far more appropriate for Wikipedia. Please do not continue including that information. Thank you.  Pro cyon  16:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I did not know that it was out-of-scope for the site to say when a game displays its year in Roman Numerals, Pro - but I did have a think about it when I noticed that you had removed that fact about Tower of Druaga being the first of only five Namco games to do so from Xevious yesterday. I only did it for readers who may not have an idea what they meant. Namcorules 16:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Solvalou
Nice job on getting those 3D Solvalou models. They look good.  Pro cyon  19:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


 * As with the graphics (and sound) of many older Namco games, they still hold up well today - but because it took me a while to figure out that the site does not allow slashes in their image names, I have created a problem for myself when uploading four images for the title page of Xevious 3D/G. Because I forgot to correct the name of the attract cutscene's image in the destination file name box, I unfortunately uploaded it as "File:1051015253.jpg", when I'd originally intended to upload it as "File:Xevious 3DG attract intro.jpg". And, to make matters worse, when I created the category for that game's images, I said in the edit summary that I had requested for the name to be changed to "File:Xevious 3DG attract cutscene.jpg" rather than "File:Xevious 3DG attract intro.jpg". And all because I did not know that slashes are invalid characters! Namcorules 16:40, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Hey glad to see your edits in the change log again. Hope you were having fun on your break, not dealing with a family emergency or anything. Cheers! — najzere T 20:06, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry to say that I was not having fun on my break, Naj - in fact, I had not been feeling very well during those last three weeks, which rendered me unable to contribute to the site during that time. But it has passed now... Namcorules 15:36, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I'm glad you're feeling better. Stay healthy! — najzere T 01:55, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Table of contents
Hi NR. I saw that you plan on expanding Metro-Cross. That's great. Out of curiosity, do you think it would be possible for you to group stages together on a single page, say in groups of 4 or 8? That way you would only need 8 or 4 links respectively for the Walkthrough in the Table of Contents. You did a great job on The Return of Ishtar, but the Table of Contents is a little frightening. That's not your fault, it's just that it's difficult to look at and find the page you're looking for. Unfortunately, there aren't many good ways to group the rooms together.  Pro cyon  23:15, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Before I wrote that guide, did you know that Forbidden Hall and Under the Moat cannot be reached by playing the game normally? They can only be reached by using the "Password Game Continue" option on the start screen, and their Room Passes are identical to those of Play Room (S32) and Museum (2C2) respectively for those who forget... Namcorules 14:47, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The Return of Ishtar
Hello! Great work on the Return of Ishtar guide. What is left before it is considered finished? -- 20:36, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I cannot remember; I try to include as much information as possible for every game I decide to write a guide for, but there always inevitably seems to be something that I happen to leave out, so that is why most of the guides on here that I have written from scratch are only at CS3 (except for Rolling Thunder and Yōkai Dōchūki, which have recently been rewritten by Procyon, to be upgraded to CS4). By the way, thanks for inserting the Continue Nav and ToC into the main-page of Metro-Cross - I cannot believe I forgot about those when I downgraded it to CS2. And is there a serious reason for why the old "BlueCloud" user interface was killed off for good on Thursday? Namcorules 12:48, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The base mediawiki software is continuously updated, and every version tends to break our custom skins. This last version was a fairly significant change and made it much more difficult to fix BlueCloud (which was a fairly significant departure from the standard skins).  -- Prod (Talk) 19:26, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. But it's not as if I do not like the new "Dolphin" interface or anything; it is just that I had used the old "BlueCloud" one since the day I joined up in December 2006, to change all mentions of the Supercat Coin to the correct "Gosenzo" in the Mappy guide, and I was a little sad to see it go after five-and-a-half years of being here. And yes, I did notice that something had gone wrong with it between 23rd April and 2nd May (which were to be its last nine days), because the text "Exception caught inside exception handler" kept appearing on the left. Namcorules (talk) 13:57, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Metro-Cross
Way to go on CS3! I'm amazed at how quickly you completed the basic walkthrough content. -- 16:03, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, NMH! Given that the guide was only one page long before (and because it is a Namco Pac-Land game - a Motorola M6809 and a Hitachi HD-63701 running at 1.536 MHz, modified to support a 2048-colour palette), I felt it deserved a proper write-up. And, before I wrote the final page of it today, did you know that the thirtieth round only gives players five seconds to clear it in? The "under-10-seconds-remaining-explosions" will already be appearing around the Runner at the start - and you cannot afford to be stunned by anything as you run through it! Namcorules (talk) 16:28, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * You're welcome! :) That's nuts! Only 5 seconds? Wow. Is it difficult? Do you get unlimited retries? -- 16:32, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * It is not that difficult once you know what to do, and you do have unlimited continues (like every other Namco game that allows them), but I always set the "Allow Continue" dipswitch in an emulated MAME ROMset to "No" if I can, because I only believe in winning a game in one coin (and going for the highest possible score of course). Namcorules (talk) 16:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Ahaha, self imposed hardcore mode, eh? I try to do that with the games I play the most, too. Like with Mega Man X I try to do speed runs with no continues, no upgrades, and I force myself to only use the Mega Buster to kill enemies and bosses. That way if you beat it you can be like, "I did it with my hands behind my back while sitting upside down and my eyes were closed." -- 16:50, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Baraduke content
Were you planning on migrating the floor information you removed from /walkthrough (here) to the world 1 page? -- 19:13, 28 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Not only was I planning to merge the information I had removed from that page to the page for the first world, I was also planning to expand upon it given that it is the only game from Namco that used one of their programmable sound generators for speech (the first Paccet saying "I'm Your Friend", and the bosses' pained screams of death). Namcorules (talk) 08:10, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Amoeba spelling
Is File:BK Ameba A.gif supposed to be "ameba" or "amoeba"? -- 15:04, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * There is no "O" in this kind of "Ameba" - however, the Katakana for the name literally reads as "Amēba". Namcorules (talk) 15:08, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Bakutotsu Kijūtei completed
Congrats! Thanks for all your hard work. -- 17:59, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Repeat warning
After reviewing your edits to Sky Kid, I have to reiterate my insistence that you cut down on the amount of hardware spec reporting for Namco games. The name of the site is StrategyWiki, not HardwareWiki. If the information you contribute pertains to anything other than how to be a better player, and what you need to know to beat a game, it needs to be kept to a minimum. Thank you. Out of curiosity, have you ever considered starting your own Namco Wiki?  Pro cyon  03:30, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought you would be pleased that I had mentioned the fact that Sky Kid Deluxe was the first game from Namco to use a Yamaha YM-2151 FM sound chip - especially as it was the first one to run at 3.579580 MHz! :'( Namcorules (talk) 09:55, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, because you have entitled this section of the page "Repeat warning", it has made me think that I could be facing a block: due to the amount of times I have mentioned the Intel 8080, the Zilog Z80 and Z8002, the Motorola M6809 and 68000, and the Hitachi HD-63701 and HD-63705 in my editing, along with the only one of Yamaha's FMsound chips that Namco used in their games between 1986 and 1993. It is not like I've been filling the pages of this site up with false information, or even nonsensical gibberish - because that is not why I joined up in 2006!


 * That's exactly my point. I'm not pleased by this, and for the amount that I've communicated with you about this subject, one would think you'd know that.  You make a lot of good contributions, but you place more emphasis on what's important to you instead of what readers come to StrategyWiki to read.  When I see some of the edits you make, where you go on and on about hardware, I picture readers' eyes glazing over and leaving the site to go find the information they want somewhere else.  And that is expressly what I do not want.  Personally, I don't care about what processors run which arcade games, what FM sound chips they contain, and what speed they run at, especially to the six hundredth digit.  As far as I'm concerned, it's irrelevant.  Having said that, that doesn't mean you can't write about it here, it just has to be the appropriate amount.  My response continues below.  Pro  cyon 

And no, I have never considered starting my own Namco Wiki; mostly because somebody else had the same idea first, and its article for my personal favourite Namco game (the reason why it is: because its eponymous main character is a caricature of the company's founder), was created under its TurboGrafx-16 name of "Bravoman". I would also not be surprised if an article for Genpei Tōma Den was created on it under the SPS1 name of "The Genji and Heike Clans", and one for Valkyrie no Densetsu under the SPS1 name of "Legend of the Valkyrie"; but if this response could be considered "boring" or "ridiculous" by you in any way, I'm sorry for wasting your time. Namcorules (talk) 14:45, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean that you can't start a different Namco wiki, where you would be free to talk about what processors are found in which games, and name the articles however you like. The truth is, we will have to rename Beraboh Man to Bravoman on this site as well, because that is the American name, and as such, is the name that our readers will best know the game by.  It's important when it comes to search engine ranking, and it is this site's policy, especially if it means matching Wikipedia's article naming convention, where the name of the article is Bravoman.  That's something else we've spoken to you about many times (e.g. Yōkai Dōchūki vs. Shadow Land), but again, you choose to focus on what is more important to you and it leads to conflicts.  I no longer try to get you to understand our position, I just repeat it to you as many times as necessary.   Pro  cyon  02:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * But the original arcade version of Beraboh Man was never actually released as "Bravoman" in the United States - it was only ported to the TurboGrafx-16 in 1990, and that version of the game is not identical to the arcade one! For a start, it contains ten fewer stages (22 as opposed to 32), has inferior graphics due to the lack of the NS1board's 5121-colour palette, and inferior sound due to the lack of the NS1's stereophonic Yamaha YM-2151, PSG and DAC. The last time you had become this cross with me, it was because I had stated that Valkyrie no Densetsu's elderly male sorcerer, Babasama, looked like a humanized version of someone Americans have never heard of... Namcorules (talk) 08:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, the twenty-two stages found in the TurboGrafx-16 version are completely different to the thirty-two from the arcade version, and all the characters were renamed for Western audiences (including the one who later got an NS1 game of his own in 1990); the Totems were also featured as bosses in the TurboGrafx-16 version (when they were just regular enemies in the arcade version) and the end credits are also different from the arcade version -obviously because the people who produced that game originally did not go on to produce the TurboGrafx-16 port... Namcorules (talk) 14:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Just going to chip in here. The only difference you mentioned that actually matters between the two games is the difference in stages (both number of stages as well as content of them). Character names and differences in graphics/sound are irrelevant information when it comes to a user actually wanting to find information on how to beat the game. If the stages that exist in both games do not actually differ layout-wise (e.g. there are only cosmetic differences such as the totems being called bosses, or stages in some versions containing a few extra things but in general the level is the same), then you should mostly follow the American release (as we feature guides for games released in the English language primarily) and mention the differences in the original Japanese version via sidebars and list the additional stages in a subtoc. If the stages differ substantially to the point where the strategy to beat the stage in the American release is entirely different than the strategy to beat the stage in the Japanese release, then perhaps the game deserves to be split up into an individual guide per release. Please see here for a recap of what I just said.
 * I honestly don't see why you are failing to actually acknowledge our viewpoint. You know from multiple messages that you have even posted that certain things you are doing (hardware information and differences) do not matter here and yet you not only add them anyway (which for a sentence on the main page is fine), but you seem to focus on it instead of focusing on what our readers care about, which is a guide of how to beat a game. I would like to have a more live discussion with you given the chance, perhaps on Skype, so that we can work out something so that Procyon and others such as myself do not have to constantly remind you of our policies and so that we may finally see eye-to-eye. Please reply with whether or not you'd be willing to do this, and if you are I will work with Procyon and others to see if it could a) just be more than you and me, and b) figure out what time to have it. -- 16:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The stages in the TurboGrafx-16 version of Beraboh Man do differ layout-wise to the point where what you have to do to clear them is entirely different to what you had to do in the arcade version; in fact, Fukubiki Man (who is the eponymous main character's sort-of partner) has to be rescued by him in one stage, which never had to be done in the arcade version. There is nothing stopping anybody from creating a guide for the TG16 version under the US name of "Bravoman" (like how a guide for the Famicom version of Warp & Warp had been created under the name of Warpman) - it's just that nobody who uses the site has thought of doing it yet, and maybe never will. I have never played the TG16 version (only the arcade version in MAME, as me and my family have never been to Japan) so cannot create it myself, especially as I do not know what all of the characters were renamed to in that version; I have always been more of an arcade game fan, which is how I have come to know all about their controls systems, hardware specifications, and sound chips. And I apologise, Skizzerz, but I do not have a Skype account - mostly because I do not want strangers seeing my face, but also because my younger sister (who's always been more into classic console games, which I do not mind, as that way both ends of the emulation spectrum are covered even though certain NES, SNES and MegaDrive games are playable in MAME through the PlayChoice10, Nintendo Super System and MegaTech systems) has one already, and my parents decided that one Skyper was enough. Please understand this! Namcorules (talk) 09:31, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Very well, we'll let the current Beraboh Man guide stand as is and set up Bravoman separately. No further discussion is necessary. NR, please keep the hardware info to a minimum. Thank you.  Pro cyon  17:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

MAME versions
Hi NR. I noted in your edit summary that you said you are using MAME 0.78, which is a little concerning. If you are at all concerned with accuracy (and I know that you are), you should always be using the most up to date version of MAME available. Emulation accuracy improves constantly, so if you wish to play arcade games as close to the original hardware as possible, you should not rely on older versions of MAME. The update history for the Thunder Ceptor driver alone is as follows: It's minor, but if, for example, you referenced the road colors in TC2 from an older version of MAME than 0.139u1, than you would be referencing the wrong colors. I highly recommend that you always utilize the most recent build of MAME available. There is little to no reason not to.  Pro cyon  22:53, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * 0.139u1: Phil Bennett fixed incorrect road transparency in Thunder Ceptor and incorrect road colours in Thunder Ceptor II. Atari Ace removed global variables from NAMCO sound core.
 * 0.127u7: Aaron Giles fixed Thunder Ceptor crashes out when run as the second game (Multisession bug).
 * 0.123u1: Fixed proms loading ($1000, 1400). Changed palettesize to 4096 colors.
 * 0.122u7: Changed HD63701 CPU5 clock speed to 6144000 Hz.
 * 0.122u5: Zsolt Vasvari cleaned up Thunder Ceptor memory maps.
 * 0.121u2: BUT added 3D glasses support to the Thunder Ceptor driver.
 * 0.107u3: Brian Troha properly documented and connected the CUS60 MCU code to Thunder Ceptor.
 * 0.93: Added clock parameter to Namco CUS30 sound (24000 Hz).
 * 0.89: Replaced Namco sound with Namco CUS30.
 * 0.77u2: BUT added Thunder Ceptor. Added background scroll, M6809 CPU1 interrupt handling and stereo sound. Added 3rd and 4th button.
 * 25th November 2003: BUT added Thunder Ceptor to the Thunder Ceptor 2 driver.
 * 15th November 2003: BUT fixed the background layers and added support for transparent road color in the Thunder Ceptor 2 driver.
 * 0.76u2: David Haywood and BUT decoded BG graphics in Thunder Ceptor II but BG's still aren't hooked up yet, improved existing graphics a bit.
 * 0.76u1: BUT added Thunder Ceptor II (Namco 1986). TODO: Support background layer (decode first).


 * Is it wrong to use an older version of MAME as a visual aid for a guide on here? You make it sound like it is! Namcorules (talk) 14:49, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is. Procyon just made that clear: an older version of MAME may display games improperly (and will for Thunder Ceptor). -- 15:40, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I know that an older version of MAME may display games, including the two Thunder Ceptor games, improperly (especially as I found out that they both start with "The video emulation isn't 100% accurate" in 0.78), but it's not like I was going to reference the ground colours in my not-yet-created guide to 3-D Thunder Ceptor II anyway! Namcorules (talk) 16:00, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Good! =) -- 16:06, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * No, it's not "wrong" as in impermissible, it's "wrong" as in it doesn't make any sense. For someone who prides themselves on accurate details, it makes no sense why you would intentionally choose a version of MAME with less accurate emulation.  Even the screenshots that you take may contain inaccuracies that have since been corrected (especially since 2003) in the most recent versions.  Emulation is not like consoles, it is never fixed with one set of specs, it constantly evolves as technology improves.   Pro  cyon  00:43, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Romanization of Kyuukai Douchuuki
Hi NR. We have to discuss your decision to move the Kyuukai Douchuuki guide. If you look at other romanized titles throughout the site, we try to make every title capable of being typed out on a standard English keyboard with no need for special characters. That means using "ou" instead of "ō" and "uu" instead of "ū". Additionally, when the game in question is an arcade game that is emulated by MAME, the guide name should agree with the spelling provided by MAME itself. This drastically improves our search engine rank when someone Googles the name of a game and makes your hard work more visible to others. I am aware that Wikipedia does not follow these guidelines, and that is simply where StrategyWiki and Wikipedia differ. For these reasons, we will have to adjust your Kyuukai Douchuuki guide accordingly. Please feel free to help us with the move. Thank you for your understanding.  Pro cyon  15:52, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * That means you will also have to move Genpei Tōma Den back to Genpei ToumaDen and Bakutotsu Kijūtei back to Bakutotsu Kijuutei - but at least I have not been overdoing it on the hardware information now! Namcorules (talk) 16:01, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. I'll add it to my todo list so it gets done. Using the MAME spelling seems like a good idea. Is there a site that has the standard MAME spellings listed somewhere? -- 07:14, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * You could just use that "All Games" list in the emulator itself for reference (unless, of course, the game you are looking for is not emulated in your version of it): that's better than looking for a site that may not exist. Namcorules (talk) 08:58, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * All games list? There is no list in the official release of MAME (if you don't have a ROM it simply closes itself; there is no menu). Which front end are you using? -- 18:23, 2 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually there are a couple of solutions to this:


 * There is a way to generate a list from the executable NMH. I think the parameter is -listall or -listgames or something like that.  Running with -help or -? should tell you the right one to use.  Then you can pipe the output to a text file.
 * Additionally, the latest versions of MAME come up with an in game menu if you build the SDL version. The list starts out random, but as you start typing letters, it begins to show the game it thinks you're trying to spell.
 * But there's actually no need to do that, as there are a number of online MAME databases. MAWS used to be the absolute best until it got hacked, and now it shows no signs of ever returning.  Then there's arcade-history.com which helps maintain the history.dat file for MAME.  They combined with KLOV not too long ago, and their listings are pretty comprehensive, as well as tied to MAME's naming.
 * There are a couple of others, but when in doubt, just grab the latest version of MAME, and a GUI like MAMEIV which will parse the game names out of the executable's data and display them in the list of available games.  Pro cyon  19:05, 2 September 2012 (UTC)


 * NR, why did you move Genpei Tōma Den to Genpei ToumaDen? Shouldn't there be a space between Touma and Den? Accident? MAME spelling? -- 22:18, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I moved it because that is the MAME spelling, NMH - and I am surprised that you did not know that yourself! Namcorules (talk) 14:41, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Hey! Knock it off NR.  Contributing information to this site does not give you an excuse to have a condescending attitude with any other user on this site, especially an administrator who voluntarily cleans up after your messes.  I don't care what does or does not surprise you, keep it to yourself, and stop putting personal messages in edit summaries because nobody cares!  Pro  cyon  22:01, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * You are right, Procyon - I did come off quite patronizing with that comment I made yesterday, and I am sorry for any offence that I may have caused to you and Notmyhandle (and any of the other administrators) by making it. Namcorules (talk) 16:20, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I haven't had any time to mess with MAME! =/ Sorry! -- 16:12, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Hey Procyon, what about the Category and Series templates? Since this is the first game of the series, do you want them spelled the same way, too? Any special redirects (since we normally don't redirect for cats or template). -- 17:38, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Hey NMH, I was gonna tell you not to worry about the image categories because there are so many images, and it would be such a headache, but it looks like you've gotten through them already, so thank you. If you don't have a bot, we should set you up with one (unless you actually like doing it manually.)  But I do feel that the series templates should match the MAME title, especially since there should be far fewer edits to them, and it may help us on Google.   Pro  cyon  21:59, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

If a category needs to be renamed and all the images moved, mark it with rename and let me know. I'll run my bot through it. Also, is there enough data provided to create basic main pages for all these MAME guides? Perhaps we could bot that? It would be useful if it had at least name, genre, developer, and publisher. And maybe released date/region.-- Prod (talk) 04:15, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Filenames
Try not to shorten the game name in the file name unless it is very long (like The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time). It's easier to distinguish without an acronym. Also, why would Blazer be abbreviated "BZ"? Acronyms are not intuitive, so we try to avoid them. I'm not asking you to change anything that's already there. We shouldn't waste our time renaming them. -- 17:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I have no idea why Namco chose to give their third sixteen-bit arcade game that two-letter identity of "BZ" when they originally released it twenty-five years ago, given that they had never released a game which had been given the two-letter identity of "BL" beforehand - and I apologise, NMH, but I have never played "TLoZ: OoT" given that it is not an arcade game (I think the original might have been released as a Vs. System or PlayChoice-10 though). Namcorules (talk) 17:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Like I said, no one knows what BZ stands for. The acronym is extremely trivial. Also, if its important to you it should be included on the main page of Blazer. I only mentioned OOT because of the length of its name to illustrate my example. A filename with the full game name would be unnecessarily long. -- 17:35, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

The series template is required on series categories
See this diff. -- 22:17, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Galaga '88 Pic
Can you check if File:G8 Ga.gif is needed or if it should be deleted? Thank you. Paco (talk) 16:00, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes. That file is required for the guide, as it depicts one of the game's sixteen types of bonus stage enemies. Namcorules (talk) 16:07, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I checked Galaga_'88/Getting_Started yesterday, but all 16 Bonus Enemies are listed there, so Ga would be the seventeen Monster. That is one too many, so i asked you for help. Paco (talk) 16:14, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I have just checked the page myself, and it turns out that I have listed the Bees (who appear on the seventh stage when it takes place in the second dimension) on there twice - so it was an error on my part. Sorry, Paco. Namcorules (talk) 16:27, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * good, then that means one pic less on Unused pics-List. Thank you for your help. Paco (talk) 16:54, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for all your work! Also, I was never exposed to so many Namco games, so thank you for broadening that area of my gaming experience. -- 19:12, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

World Stadium favor
Hi NR, I was wondering if you could help me out with something. It's voluntary, and you don't have to accept, but if you'd like to, could you please expand the World Stadium guide to include any information about the PC-Engine version that was released on May 20, 1988? If you can, great, and if not, I'll try to find some time to do something with it. Thanks either way.  Pro cyon  00:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I did not even know that there was a PC-Engine version of the original World Stadium, Pro; I have always thought it was arcade-exclusive, so I am sorry but I cannot expand the guide to include any information about it. Namcorules (talk) 09:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Assault images
I see that all of the level maps, except one, have high res versions available. THANK YOU!

Do you have a high res image of the level(s) "And Reconstruct Our Ruined Home"? http://strategywiki.org/wiki/File:AT_And_Reconstruct_Our_Ruined_Home.png

Side note: How did you get these images?

FlatPepsi (talk) 13:49, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I did make a high-resolution image of the fourth area, but after I made the one of the third area and it caused an error in creating a thumbnail when I uploaded it due to "invalid thumbnail parameters", I was forced to shrink it down much like I did for that one; I also made them by pressing F4 while playing the game in MAME to bring it into graphics-viewing mode, then pressed the Right Arrow repeatedly until I got to "TILEMAP 6" (which displays the current area's map) and used D, G, PgUp and PgDn to pan up, down, left and right until I got to the positions of the maps I needed before pressing PrintScreen, switching to Microsoft Paint and pressing Ctrl+V to paste those parts of the maps into the picture (and, in the cases of the third and fourth areas, it was not very easy to do). Namcorules (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Could you post (or otherwise make available) the high-res version of the fourth area? MAME and I don't get along very well. FlatPepsi (talk) 22:57, 27 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, I cannot; I deleted it after I uploaded the shrunk-down version of it, and I do not think that I could recreate it for a second time. Also - what is the reason behind MAME and you not getting along very well? Namcorules (talk) 14:32, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Preload buttons
In order to keep pages on the wiki neat and uniform, we employ certain formatting and templates to help us accomplish this. When creating a new page, please use one of the preload buttons located above the edit text box (e.g. click on "Guide page"), which will insert the needed templates and formatting for you. Thanks for keeping the wiki organized! — 00:20, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Pac-Attack
I'm glad you finally expanded outside of your arcade focus! Aha, what made you want to work on this one? -- 17:23, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The fact that it is based on Cosmo Gang: The Puzzle, and I have also always been a great lover of Pac-Man. I plan to expand the guide to Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures next, and maybe even start one for Pac-In-Time! Namcorules (talk) 17:30, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I would love it if you could play through Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures. I beat it on my Genesis and would be willing to play through it again once you are finished. -- 17:34, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The Genesis version is also the one with "Pac-Jr." - which was not a conversion of Bally Midway's 1983 arcade title Jr. Pac-Man (as its name suggested), but an entirely new game which played like Ms. Pac-Man. Namcorules (talk) 17:40, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures/Passwords
They don't have to be alphabetical, but the release order is unknown and appears to be simultaneous. -- 19:23, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Scrolling shooter maps
Honestly, the full maps should remain. The best way to make a scrolling shooter guide is to blow up the map and add numbered/lettered labels on it where events occur. Each event or section would then be elaborated on. The sequence of events as most of your layouts present is far too mashed together to follow. Most people only have problems with specific events - like when a stream of enemies come out in a certain order, at a specific time. Like, shouldn't File:Phelios Stage 3-1.png remain as a full map reference, since maps are not presented anywhere else? -- 17:39, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Not really; because looking back on them now, I didn't do a very good job of putting some of those maps together two years ago, particularly the now-deleted one for Stage 2 Area 2 and the not-yet-deleted one for Stage 5 Area 2. Also, I used an older version of MAME to create them, so I have recently found out that the colours of both the lava and Antaeus's temple on the map of Stage 4 Area 1 are wildly inaccurate, along with the water on the map of Stage 6 Area 1 - and even though they seemed like a good idea at the time, I have come to regret my decisions. Namcorules (talk) 17:50, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Mmk. If you come across good maps elsewhere online maybe you can use them to save time. Thanks, -- 18:51, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * "Mmk"? I apologise, NMH, but even though I have been a member here for nearly seven years, I have no idea what that means. Namcorules (talk) 19:05, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Aha, it means "okay". It is sort of a combination between "hmm" and "ok". -- 19:10, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Is it possible to rename F/A?
Hi Namcorules. I wanted to ask you about the guide you started. I realize that F/A is probably the right name for the guide. However, it's unfortunate, but we should try to restrict the use of the symbol "/" because it denotes subdirectories. So StrategyWiki's system sees the game as "F" with a subdirectory of "A", and no content in "F". I'll leave it up to you. If you think we could name it "Fighter & Attacker" or maybe switch the backslash so it reads "F\A" instead? Just wanted to see if you could find a good solution. Thanks.  Pro cyon  21:39, 27 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I like the idea of switching the backslash so that it reads as "F\A", but that would mean we would also have to do it for Xevious 3D/G so that it reads as "Xevious 3D\G"; I will get onto doing that so you do not have to. Namcorules (talk) 09:30, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Proc, I think F/A is fine. No game is named "F". However, I prefer the idea of changing it to Fighter & Attacker and redirecting F/A and F\A to it. It is very unlikely that a game named "F" will be published, and that it would have a sub-page named "A". -- 18:50, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I am not so keen on the idea of renaming it to "Fighter & Attacker"; "F/A" was the original Japanese name for the game, and unlike Yōkai Dōchūki (or "Shadow Land" as it was known in America), it is not a foreign title. Namcorules (talk) 19:30, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Well the page says "F/A, released as Fighter & Attacker in the United States", so why can't we use the U.S. name? F\A is just a misspelling of F/A, so I don't think that's a valid solution. -- 20:30, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Because of the aforementioned facts that "F/A" was the original Japanese name for the game, and it is not a foreign title; I was told about the policy of English titles taking precedence over foreign ones when I demanded that Shadow Land be renamed back to Yōkai Dōchūki two years ago (and got into quite a bit of trouble for it), but nobody ever said anything about US names taking precedence over Japanese ones that contain backslashes. Namcorules (talk) 20:50, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Well Procyon is pointing out a coding/framework flaw in MediaWiki. F/A is a subpage of F. So, technically a game could be made at F and thus F/A would be a subpage of it, which is totally inaccurate. To overcome that, changing it to the American name would solve the problem. Having F/A redirect to it is no big deal. We usually make the U.S. name take precedence of the Japanese one anyways, since most of the people on here are U.S./British/Australian English speakers and these are English guides. I understand that you have a preference towards the "original" name, but that originality does not matter since the redirect for the title would exist and the box artwork clearly shows F/A, so it's not like people wanting F/A would go to Fighter & Attacker and not understand what is going on. They are the same. The naming differences are clearly disambiguate on the page. Essentially the only reason this renaming needs to occur is because "/" is an invalid character for titles on this website. Renaming it F\A doesn't make sense because \ is a different character than /. It would be like renaming it as "F&A". It looks similar, grammatically it is the same, it is pronounced the same, but technically it is different. I think F\A shouldn't be on the table as an option but if you and Proc prefer that, then so be it. It is just weird to use a third, unofficial name. We are assuming there are just two names: F/A and Fighter & Attacker. F/A is invalid here, but we will let it remain as a redirect, so Fighter & Attacker is the logical, and only, solution, without making something up, which we did with F\A. Also, one argument against F/A is that it is typeset in the graphic. It could also be FA. What other text proof can you find to show that F/A is the official title?


 * That said, I think the game should be at Fighter & Attacker to fix the problem. Also, I think Shadow Land should not be moved back to the Japanese romanized title, as this is an English-centric wiki. However, I would like to discuss that in a separate issue. I looked up your original plea on Prod's page in 2011, and he never responded, as he is not on very often. Procyon and I are better admins to talk to about this, so we should bring it up on Procyon's page. I will do so in a way that focuses on a policy definition/change rather than a plea to move Shadow Land to a new title. -- 21:09, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * You do not need to do that on account of me, NMH; I was merely pointing it out as an example of a US title taking precedence over a Japanese one, and I also do not wish to get myself into that much trouble on here again. Namcorules (talk) 21:21, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Namcorules. A couple of things.  First, I promise that you won't get in trouble.  I mean it.  You're a valuable contributor to the site, and I have no intention of chasing you away over anything trivial.
 * Second, the reason the naming thing is such a concern is because we always want to make sure that people can find your work. The choice in the name has a lot less to do with which name was used first, and by who, and a lot more to do with the question: what name will most people put into Google?  Going with the more obscure name can make it harder for people to find all of your hard work, even if the name you chose is technically the right name.
 * That being said, when in doubt, we look to Wikipedia and what names they have chosen. I looked up all three games brought up in this discussion, and I learned some interesting things:
 * As we've already discussed, Wikipedia goes with the title wp:Shadow Land (video game) over both wp:Youkai Douchuuki and wp:Yōkai Dōchūki (actually, there are a ton of redirects, but you know what I mean), so we want to agree with them.
 * Likewise, Wikipedia goes with the title wp:Fighter & Attacker over wp:F/A. So, we should probably agree with them too.  I know it's not the title that you would prefer, but more users are likely to search Google for Fighter & Attacker instead of F/A, and I don't think Google even looks at redirects.  Personally, I think it's important that we line up with Wikipedia.
 * Here's the interesting part. Wikipedia has the 3D Xevious game listed as wp:Xevious 3D/G.  It's interesting because they have no problem using the forward slash.  So I have to confess to being wrong about the slash, it's not a problem if it's forward.  I will undo the changes you made to that game, although I sincerely appreciate your efforts to correct the problem.
 * So I'd like to ask if you really have a strong objection to renaming F\A to Fighter & Attacker? I hope that you don't because I'd really like for us to line up with Wikipedia on this matter, it genuinely helps us with Google.  Thanks for all your hard work.   Pro  cyon  05:59, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I am sorry, Procyon, but I really do have a strong objection to renaming it to the US title; I will just move it back to the title I originally created it under (if that is all right with you and the other administrators). Namcorules (talk) 10:25, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Please do me one favor. Go to Google, and do a search for "F/A".  Then do a search for "Fighter & Attacker" and look at the difference.  When you search for "F/A", there's not one mention of the Namco's game in the first ten links.  The first link that I see is about music.  When you search for "Fighter & Attacker", there are plenty of links about the game, and the first one that shows up is Wikipedia's article.  Do you see the difference.  You have to understand how important the naming of the articles is when it comes to searches.  I'm not going to overrule you on this one (for now) because I hope that after doing this experiment, you will come to decide that it's better if you do it on your own.  You can still continue to refer to the game as "F/A" in the guide, but the difference is that very few people will even find your guide if you continue to leave the name of the guide as "F/A", whereas they're much more likely to find it if you rename it.  Isn't that important to you?  Because it is important for the success of StrategyWiki.  Pro  cyon  01:55, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

For F/A vs. F\A, I'd rather stick with F/A until we get an issue. As long as there's no guide named F, it will interpret the '/' properly as part of the name. We have a similar situation with the .hack games, and even with the conflict, it isn't a big deal. As for F/A vs. Fighter & Attacker, we should follow whatever policy we have so far to stay consistent, irrespective of the popularity of the name. We can always set up redirects for other names. If we don't have a policy decided, we should pick it and make sure it's applied to all the relevant guides. F/A seems like a reasonable name, since it's based off WP:F/A-18. The question is, do we want to go with the original Japanese release name (in English text), or the name of the first release in NA? Both approaches seem fairly reasonable to me, but what have we followed so far? -- Prod (talk) 07:52, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * You are right, Prod; the original Japanese name is based off the F/A-18, which is one of the sixteen selectable aircrafts in the game. And Procyon, I did a Google search on that name, like you asked - but the first two things that came up for me were about the aforementioned McDonnell-Douglas F/A-18 "Hornet" and the Boeing F/A-18E "Super Hornet" aircrafts. How was I to know that creating a game guide under its original name would cause all this? Namcorules (talk) 09:50, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * We aren't blaming you for anything, so let's not get into that. This is an undecided area for us.
 * Strategically naming our guides to maximize visibility sounds like the best course of action (as Procyon discussed). However, I do not think this is a good focus for us. It will make every guide's naming process to be a point of argument, which will slow our development process. Also, due to search result changes, the issue could always be brought up in the future and the guide renamed (a process that could repeat indefinitely). Because of this, I do not think we should make our standard based on search results. Procyon: do redirects not appear in Google Search results? E.g. if we leave the Fighter & Attacker result up for some time, will it not boost our search results? You're saying that the primary name has to match up to the best search query. I believe that is true, but am not entirely sure. I have read through Google's SEO manual before while working on sites of my own. I am sure that F/A and Fighter & Attacker will show us on search results at some point. This is a new guide and will have few cached resources to us so far.
 * I support English centric naming as our standard, because it matches the language of our content and our primary viewership (which is native English speakers). Exceptions will occur, and we are ok with having a romaji name as the title in those cases. We need to vote on this.
 * I see now that Prod is correct, F/A is not causing any problems for us Mediawiki-wise.
 * Shall we vote? I vote for an English-naming centric policy (North American naming centric, as some EU and AU releases have different titles), with all other names redirecting to it. This is how our guides currently are, and how Procyon has named things in the past (e.g. The Tower of Druaga vs. Druaga no Tō; though this is a bad example as the release date was international). --17:48, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * One other thing, I was looking at wp:Shadow Land (video game) and noticed on the discussion page a very important point - there is no evidence that the English name for Shadow Land is legitimate. The only evidence comes from ROM dumps, which could have been hacks of the Japanese ROM to begin with. In cases like that, we can either side on the safe side - saying that the Japanese name is the only proven one, or we can side with the internet naming scheme, which relies on rumors and memes for knowing things (e.g. Shadow Land is known in some circles, though people like Namcorules would never refer to it by that name). -- 17:52, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * The Tower of Druaga did not actually display its name as Druaga no Tō (or ドルアーガの塔) on its title screen; I also did not know there was no evidence that the US title for Yōkai Dōchūki was legitimate as it still says "© 1987 NAMCO, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED" on the title screen, but it could swing this discussion around, because I am voting for a Japanese-centric naming policy (but only for titles that were first released in Japan - however, this does not mean I would want to see the guide for the original Pac-Man get moved to Puckman). Namcorules (talk) 10:00, 31 December 2013 (UTC)


 * At this point, it appears that there are no real problems, nor does a site-wide catch-all policy appear to be useful. There are too many exceptions. I will rename Shadow Land back to the correct Japanese name for now. Namcorules: I meant that there are no screenshots of the English version, nor its title screen. It doesn't matter if there is English in the Japanese version. F/A is valid and the original title so it is fine, too. -- 19:11, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it would be best for us to go with the first official English name (US, EU, AU or otherwise), as that will be the most recognizable. People familiar with the Japanese name can always follow redirects (original or transliteration) and will most likely know of the English name.  English users on the other hand are less likely to know of the Japanese name.  If there is no English name, then the first official release name should be used until an official English name is used. -- Prod (talk) 22:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I do agree with Prod. It is in our best interests (to minimize editing/naming conflicts and to maximize search results) to use the primary English name in all cases (forgive my wishy-washy-ness; ambivalence/objectification leads to the inability to add opinionated weight to arbitrary value judgements). I have been looking at Shadow Land some more. On Google, we come up on the first page of hits for Shadow Land when searching for info on the Wii, but "Shadow Land" by itself does not bring us up. On the other hand, we are on the fourth page for Yokai Douchuuki. Even better, the macron version, Yōkai Dōchūki, puts us at the 2nd result. Having multiple romaji spellings in the intro (see also Genpei Touma Den)/redirects apparently really helps our visibility. This is thus an example where an unknown English name does not harm the Japanese name's search results visibility. At this point, I am not going to rename anything, as they are all acceptable. It appears that our goal is to achieve "acceptable" names for each guide, and to eliminate bickering by explaining why it is justified to anyone who challenges the naming scheme. At some point we may have a more strict grammatical titling system, in which case Genpei ToumaDen will be renamed to Genpei Touma Den. -- 02:01, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Guys, not to be a jerk, but can I just point out that, by the logic of baking guides after their initial release name, the Pac-Man guide really would be named Puckman? My point here is that no matter how you try, there's always going to be an element of subjectivity. That's why I am in favor of the name that will give us the most traffic through search engines (although I admit, the whole Shadow Land naming was shaky on my part to begin with. I didn't like the using the accented letters that no one can type.)  Pro  cyon  03:03, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Namcorules pointed out Puckman. We are definitely catering towards the popular name of games. And yes, macrons suck, so that's why Youkai Douchuuki is my preferred title for that game. I got a Wii for Christmas, so I am going to check out the Virtual Console to verify whether or not it is available in the U.S. I think this discussion is over for the moment. The only thing still bugging me is Genpei ToumaDen since the capital D should either be lower case or preceded by a space, and Touma is a separate word from Den as far as I know (technically, the best transliteration may actually be Genpeitoumaden, though that is just difficult to read). Namcorules wanted it to be ToumaDen to match the MAME title. Proc/Prod, any thoughts? Can you weigh in for me? I can't decide if I should move it or let it be. -- 03:27, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I didn't want it to be "ToumaDen" to match the MAME title; it was back when I was expanding the guide to Kyūkai Dōchūki in 2012 that Pro and NMH told me macrons could not be used in guide names on here, so they moved it to the MAME romanization Kyuukai Douchuuki, even though the characters "ō" and "ū" can be typed out on a regular keyboard as "%C5%8D" and "%C5%AB" respectively. This meant that I had to move Genpei Tōma Den and Bakutotsu Kijūtei back to their MAME romanizations (Genpei ToumaDen and Bakutotsu Kijuutei respectively) as a result of it - and I have also never seen the former title romanized as Genpei Touma Den. Namcorules (talk) 16:16, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


 * (At this point the number of colons we use is becoming so arbitrary...) Yeah, but Namcorules, you have to recognize the fact that even though there is a way type "ō" and "ū", I would estimate that 99.9% of our users won't do it. Which means if you use those characters, you are making it much more difficult for people to find your work.  That is my number one priority, and I would think should be yours: Making it possible for people to find all of your hard work, either directly or through Google.  Therefore, I defer to authoritative sources, i.e. MAME, Wikipedia, etc.  There's a reason why Wikipedia chose wp:Shadow Land (Video Game) and wp:Fighter & Attacker.  I don't think it was arbitrary on their part, they're usually sticklers for correctness.  If it's good enough for them, I say it's good enough for us.  Pro  cyon  17:51, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Alright, so Genpei Touma Den it is, then. Wikipedia uses wp:Genpei Tōma Den, which uses correct spacing and capitalization grammar rules, and since we don't use macrons, my suggestion is the next clear iteration. GameFAQs is the only first page google results that uses Genpei Toumaden. I don't know if it is actually two or three words but I would assume Wikipedia's was corrected by someone who knew better. -- 00:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Genpei ToumaDen (ARC/PCE)
I have made a lot of changes on my own. Now I wonder if this guide can be considered as "completed"... Akumaxx (talk) 15:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)


 * You would be better off asking an administrator about this sort of thing; I'm just the guide's original creator, and it would appear that I only covered the arcade version and the 22 stages on the path with all 3 sacred items. Namcorules (talk) 10:00, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I have changed it to stage 4, as it is fairly complete. However, since the walkthrough sections are arbitrary, please explain why they have been organized in to A, B, and C, on the Genpei ToumaDen/Walkthrough page. Note that if multiple versions' info get integrated and it feels fully complete, with maps of each stage, then it may be a candidate to become a featured guide. After the other naming discussion is completed we can discuss renaming this guide, too, as the spacing of romaji is an issue (e.g. Genpeitoumaden vs. Gen pei tou ma den vs. Genpei ToumaDen, etc.). That is something I need to research. -- 18:01, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

One page guides
Hi Namcorules. I've noticed a lot of the one-page guides for the older games that you've started. I understood that when you began this practice, you were restricting one-page guides for older games which can no longer be played or emulated in any fashion, so no further information could be derived about them. However, many of the games that you've made one-page guides for recently can be emulated and played, so they do not qualify for one-page guides. If you wish to stub them, you can add the tag to the top of the page, but they really should have a basic table of contents on them in case someone wants to write a full guide for them later on. Thanks for your understanding.  Pro cyon  18:39, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Disabled image uploads
You should keep track of what you will need to go back and do once uploads are re-enabled. I use todo on my user page. A simple bulleted list on your user page would suffice. -- 19:51, 16 February 2014 (UTC)


 * "File:BO World 5 Base.gif" (Blast Off/World 5)
 * "File:BO World 6 Base.gif" (Blast Off/World 6)
 * "File:Ali Baba and 40 Thieves gameplay.png" (Ali Baba and 40 Thieves) Namcorules (talk) 16:00, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * "File:Super Locomotive title screen.png", "File:Super Locomotive gameplay.png" (Super Locomotive)
 * "File:Commando (1983) title screen.png", "File:Commando (1983) gameplay.png" (Commando (1983))
 * "File:Hopper Robo title screen.png", "File:Hopper Robo gameplay.png" (Hopper Robo) Namcorules (talk) 17:17, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * "File:Yamato title screen.png", "File:Yamato gameplay.png" (Yamato)
 * "File:Bank Panic flyer.jpg", "File:Bank Panic marquee.jpg", "File:Bank Panic title screen.png", "File:Bank Panic cabinet.jpg", "File:Bank Panic gameplay.png" (Bank Panic) Namcorules (talk) 17:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * "File:Calorie-kun vs. Moguranian title screen.png", "File:Calorie-kun vs. Moguranian gameplay.png" (Calorie-kun vs. Moguranian) Namcorules (talk) 17:17, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Air Combat re-release comparison issue
Please pay attention to large changes like the one on Air Combat. You removed the PlayStation release date. Also, the link for FPS in infobox should just be FPS. After writing that, I noticed the genre difference and went to check if they were actually the same game. They are generic flyers, and without scrutiny I can't tell if the PS one is a re-release, but one major feature is that I see that the PlayStation version is also a third-person shooter. As visible here. Is there any way for you to verify that they are the same? Maybe the PS should have its own guide and a separate link in the series template like Air Combat (1995)? -- 23:24, 1 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Under no stretch of the imagination can a game about flying combat planes be considered a first person shooter. It is absolutely a flight simulation.  Granted, it could be considered a sub-genre of flight simulation, specifically flight combat simulation, but that's all.  The first person shooter genre is specifically for games where the player avatar represents a human being, or humanoid-like being, not an aircraft.   Pro  cyon  23:50, 1 April 2014 (UTC)


 * NMH: After watching the YouTube video, I see that you are right and will add it to the Ace Combat template. Namcorules (talk) 08:00, 2 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Proc: the game takes place in first person, and realistically there would be a human in the cockpit... -- 16:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok so the genre issue is resolved with the combat flight simulator category (note I prefer Wikipedia's standard of simulator rather than 'simulation' like our flight simulation category). However, now I think that Air Combat and the 1995 playstation version are the same game (mode and level-wise), but the PS has different graphics, animations, and additional features. Someone will need to compare the two before we can fully claim to separate the guides or merge them. For now, 1995 is sharing the original's Table of Contents, as Getting Started has some info for the playstation version. -- 17:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Just to follow up with some research, according to Wikipedia Japan, it appears that the updated arcade version Air Combat 22, served as the basis for the PSX version of the game.
 * もともとエースコンバットはアーケードの エアーコンバット22 の移植の企画から始まったものである.
 * This translation implies that while it may have originally started out as a straight port, it apparently underwent some transformation. I personally don't have any experience with the series, so I think it's up to Namcorules to make the call.  Additionally, NMH, I get your point about FPS, but those similarities aside, this game clearly falls outside the definition of an FPS.  For one thing, in just about every FPS (as far as I know), you can stop and stand still and/or move backwards, which you clearly can't do in this game.   Pro  cyon  18:31, 2 April 2014 (UTC)


 * You cannot stop moving, stand still or move backwards in Galaxian³, Golly! Ghost!, Steel Gunner, Starblade, Solvalou or Lucky & Wild either; you also can't move in "Golly! Ghost!" full stop, along with Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures (but somehow that game doesn't qualify as an FPS, despite its gameplay). Namcorules (talk) 14:30, 3 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Many games have FPS elements, but that does not make them FPS games. Further research has lead me to conclude that Air Combat 22 and Ace Combat are two similar, but distinct games.  Even though Namco renamed Ace Combat to Air Combat in North America, perhaps to capitalize on the name of the established arcade game, the PSX version is not a port of the arcade version.  In fact, while AC22 takes place on the real Earth, AC for PSX takes place on a fictionalized Earth.   Pro  cyon  17:43, 3 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, I'm sorry to say that I am not going to be able to bring the site a Walkthrough for the game; in MAME, it starts with the message of "THIS GAME DOESN'T WORK PROPERLY", and although some games that start like this are actually perfectly playable, this one is not. Although it is possible to put it into Service Mode (and change the options), the virtual analogue controls are so messed that I cannot even follow the arrows to the enemy fighters, let alone destroy them - and once the timer has run out, I always get ejected (without having scored any points). Namcorules (talk) 15:16, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * No worries, thanks very much for trying. Perhaps Mamedev could use your feedback about the controls?  I haven't looked, so I don't know if there are any open bugs concerning that game.   Pro  cyon  15:20, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Unplayable
Please do not add unplayable to arcade games. They are playable if you have the original arcade cabinet. -- 20:25, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * In that case, it should be removed from Green Beret (1980) and Car Hunt as well, even though they are most likely not ever going to be emulated properly (or full stop, in the case of the latter) in MAME. Namcorules (talk) 15:16, 7 April 2014 (UTC)


 * unplayable is not for use in relation to emulators, including MAME. The only reason MAME is even on this site is because Procyon really likes it (I like it, too, but I haven't pushed for other emulator info on this site, as it is a can of worms). We have not officially included emulators into our scope, therefore, we do not consider it an official type of console. Unplayable is for MMOGs that have been discontinued, prototypes never officially released, and other online streamed content that can no longer be used. Emulating these does not count towards their playability, as we do not want to support unofficial fan releases (as it opens up our scope to lots and lots of small titles) and clone servers (for example there are thousands of illegal servers running MMOGs, like WoW and MapleStory). -- 17:29, 7 April 2014 (UTC)


 * hey proc, I was revising unplayable and realized that it is not supposed to be used with protoypes that are emulated. Does that mean we should adjust our scope to include a few lines about emulators? Or should we adjust unplayable so that prototypes are supposed to have the template? I thought unplayable included physical carts being unavailable, or is the assumption that the few leaked catridges still exist so the guide is for those owners? -- 17:39, 7 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I, too, love MAME myself; without it, I would not have been able to bring so many Walkthroughs to this site. Also, with regards to unofficial fan releases - why does Super Mario 63 happen to have a guide on it? Namcorules (talk) 14:30, 8 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I created Super Mario 63 before we decided that Flash games were out of our scope. Also, if you haven't played it, it's pretty good. -- 02:07, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * @: And I was questioning the coverage to myself while I was working on Acno's Energizer in the past; and the only reason it is there is due to the content movement from Wikibook when they decided to flush out game walkthroughs out of their coverage scope. Anyway, I played the game a long ago for a short period of time (1 or 2 stages); I personally think it needs polish on the presentation and art direction, but I'm sure that back then, that game was a hit. Love me some platforming (in all kinds of ways beyond jump 'n' run!), perhaps I will play it later on. The result of the coverage confusion is this page I made, which is sitting, not worked on recently. --RAP (talk) 02:44, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Back in 2009, the guide was nominated for deletion, and the resulting debate caused RobJ1981 to leave the site; the following year, somebody created a guide for "Riddle School" (which was again nominated for deletion), only it did actually get deleted in 2011. And in 2012, when somebody else created a guide for "Happy Wheels", it got deleted almost immediately - so what makes Super Mario 63 any different? It is an unofficial use of Nintendo characters, and just because they have not threatened the creator with a lawsuit (same deal with "Ultimate Flash Sonic" and the infamous "Anti-Pac-Man"; there is even a virtually perfect BurgerTime clone, and a Q*bert parody with the Newgrounds tank logo for the part of the eponymous main character), does not make it legal. Namcorules (talk) 15:30, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * @: I don't understand why you made that page. We keep track of all of the guides within our scope at Guide completion.
 * @: what guide was nominated for deletion in 2009? The legality of copyright infringement when it applies to an original game is none of our business and not related to our scope decisions. That old discussion can be viewed at, I assume you already looked at it. Our scope is to no longer allow new guides to be created that are outside of our scope, but those that are already here are allowed. Two benefits: 1), people who play those games may use our guides, and 2) if we change our scope to be more inclusive, then they will join the rest of their family. Again, I created Super Mario 63, and it will be preserved here unless we get a takedown notice (which we could rectify by simply deleting all screenshots for that game). Is there an issue to be resolved here? The only issue I had was with prototypes, which, at this point, I think they should be considered like rare arcade cabinets - playable, but rare, so unplayable does not apply. -- 18:30, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry to take so long to weigh in here. (NMH, I think NR was referring to the SM63 guide back in 2009.  I remember the whole RobJ thing.  Good memory NR.)  Anyway, "unplayable" and "unofficial" will probably always remain gray terms.  And I know nobody likes gray, but that's just a fact of life.  The time it takes to debate and decide these matters is typically better spent creating content.  The SM63 guide is on here because it exists, there's a small but measurable amount of interest in it, and it's not detracting from any of our other content.  In other words, if it was bringing undue attention to the site, it would be gone fairly quickly, but since it hasn't come to that, why go around and around on the matter.  Similarly, unplayable is sort of subjective.  Yes, even though an old arcade game isn't fully playable in MAME, you can play it with an actual arcade cabinet, but what are the chances of anyone doing that?  In this case, the term unplayable is somewhat arbitrary because the author can't play it, but really, neither can the reader.  So the author is just providing the information for historical preservation.  However, one day after the WoW or FFXI servers shut down, those guides will pretty much have the "unplayable" tag applied to them because the game client will probably be available, but the servers will be unavailable.  (Unless of course, someone maintains an unofficial server somewhere.  Then again, most of our MMO guides are pretty wimpy compared to what's out there.)  The point of it all is, whether "unplayable" or not applies to the game is less important than the presence of the information itself.  Some guy out there may in fact possess one of these long-lost arcade cabinets and decide to contribute information, or maybe he'll just read what we have.  And maybe one day MAME will properly emulate those titles.  We could debate it forever and get nowhere, or we could add more content to the site.  Not that there's anything wrong with debate.  Personally, I'd rather focus on content.   Pro  cyon  01:23, 10 April 2014 (UTC)