Talk:Dog's Life

Fact page
As one of the guide pages, can i create a random fact page, or is that to random? It would say about that people don't breathe in Lake Miniwahwah, and things like that. It was just a thought, but I'm not going to make it yet.

Oh, and is there a template for talk pages like on Wikipedia? If so, how do you write it on the edit things?Melon247 03:23, 18 April 2008 (CDT)
 * It would be better if you integrated such random facts into the appropriate places in the guide (for example, you would integrate that one into the section describing Lake Miniwahwah).
 * If I understand you correctly, there is no such template for talk pages, no. --DrBob (talk) 12:36, 18 April 2008 (CDT)

Completion Stages
What are completion stages? And how much do I have to do to get Dog's Life off Completion stage 1?

Sorry I forgot to sign my post Melon247 07:52, 30 May 2008 (CDT)
 * Details are in the Guide. Change it whenever you feel it meets the requirements. -- Prod (Talk) 09:17, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

I'm not exactly an expert at completion stages, but do you think Dog's Life should be at completion stage 2? The walkthrough doesn't exactly take you 'halfway' through the game, but the game is so simple you could finish it even without a walkthrough. Well, The walkthrough is over a third of the way through, i'd say it's about 6/17 done.Melon247 05:33, 13 July 2008 (CDT)


 * Yeah, I would say it's at stage 2. In the future if you think a guide is at the next level it probably is so go ahead and change it. Worst case scenario someone will change it back. The pages that do exist are really developed. BTW, you have been doing a grand job on writing this guide. :) Zaiqukaj 07:34, 13 July 2008 (CDT)

I'm trying to finish it and be able to put it through the 5-star test thingy.

I also found a cover for the Japanese version and I put that on here too. Do you think that'll help for when it's put to the test. Obviously I've got to finish the guide first. Melon247 04:21, 17 July 2008 (CDT)

For the completion stage four, do I just need to finish writing the guide or do I have to cover it in pictures aswell?

But then when you look at Animal Crossing: Wild World many od the pages don't haveimages anyway, and that guide's at stage four. Melon 247, the Dog&#39;s Life Expert 13:11, 13 August 2008 (CDT)
 * If the user can follow the guide and finish the game, it's worthy of stage 4. Images and making it look nice are for stage 5. -- Prod (Talk) 02:18, 14 August 2008 (CDT)

Well, I've completed all the actuall guide pages for Dog's Life, so I'll change it to completion stage four. Now I'm at the stage where I need to upload screenshots and add the local dogs to the characters page. Melon 247, the Dog&#39;s Life Expert 08:33, 16 August 2008 (CDT)

Category
Shall I add an image category for Dog's Life because there's probably going to be quite a few more screenshots uploaded so I can finish the guide (eventually.)Melon247 03:29, 15 July 2008 (CDT)
 * You should use Category:Dog's Life images. -- Prod (Talk) 21:56, 15 July 2008 (CDT)

Synopsis spoiler
The ending is revealed in it so should it be removed/moved to another page?-- The preceding signed comment was added by Rocky (talk • contribs). 13:53, 11 August 2008 (CDT)


 * I'll add it to the end of the Finale article. I already asked something about that on the talk page for that article, but never mind. -- Melon 247, the Dog&#39;s Life Expert 08:05, 12 August 2008 (CDT)


 * Wow, I answered my first question! ; )-- Melon 247, the Dog&#39;s Life Expert

Stage 5
I've added at least 2 images to every article... well, I just need to decide what to put in the Clarksville, Lake Minniwahwah and Boom City articles, so apart from that and splitting the map up, what else needs to be done? Melon 247, the Dog&#39;s Life Expert 08:39, 26 August 2008 (CDT)


 * Some of the Footer Navs need the nextpage and prevpage parameters filled in. Additionally, many of the pages need to be broken up with headers, either level 2 or level 3 or a combination of both, in order to make the page easier to read, and help the reader navigate to exactly the piece of information that they are seeking.  Procyon (Talk) 09:23, 26 August 2008 (CDT)


 * You've done a fantastic job! There are still some things that could be fixed up or changed though.  You may be able to create sections within the guide pages to split the page up better and make information easier to find.  Check out The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past.  See how the pages look nicer because they are split up into sections?  I'll see if I have the time this weekend to work on one of the pages and show you what I mean.


 * Someone will also need to go through and "copyedit" your work. This just means a few people need to check for spelling and grammar errors.  At the same time, they can attempt to rewrite some of the sentences to make them more clear.  This is best left to someone else because it is very difficult to edit your own work in this manner.


 * The last issue is the number of images. There are two images per page, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is enough.  Optimally, there should be enough images to most effectively portray what the guide is saying.  Unfortunately, this game is difficult to get images for, so I'm willing to be a little lax on this rule.


 * Woops, edit conflict! Looks like Procyon said some of what I was saying.-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 09:36, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

I'll split the pages up, and I'll find as many other images as I can to illuistrate what the guide is saying. I'm not sure but I think some other users (Rocky and Zaiqukaj) have been looking through the guide pages. They might have just been checking for typos though.Melon 247, the Dog&#39;s Life Expert 06:46, 27 August 2008 (CDT)


 * For good, effective images, you'll probably want to add ones that show secrets or things not easily seen or understood (like hidden entrances or places that look like they are empty but when you get close things appear). Also, maps are usually vital and are great at being able to show where items, events, locations, and enemies are. -- 13:06, 27 August 2008 (CDT)

Well, the only secret places I know about are the bit behind the waterfall at the watermill and the three scents ontop of the shelter at the station. I don't think there's any images for them though.

And one more thing, should I make a map for each area (which would probably take ages) or just stick with the three main sections? Melon 247, the Dog&#39;s Life Expert 03:02, 28 August 2008 (CDT)


 * Each area is best of course. If a general map leaves out info about another area, well then there's missing info isn't there? Check out The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and Earthbound for good examples of maps. -- 05:00, 28 August 2008 (CDT)

I've forgotten who it was, but someone added the to do list now so there's a to do list. Feel free to edit it if I missed anything.Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 13:51, 29 August 2008 (CDT)
 * I did... The problem is if you feel the guide is complete, we can't fairly judge the guide because none of us own the game. It's hard for us to point out where things need to be improved because we don't know the game well enough. Also if you do think it's completely done, then all it requires is for us to do some copy editing (rewriting) and spell checking. -- 21:31, 29 August 2008 (CDT)

So, basically, I edit the guide untill I think it's done, and then I say something on the talk page to tell the rest of you so you can spell check it. Ok. --Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 08:22, 30 August 2008 (CDT)

I have made a map for the Watermill but I didn't really know where on the page to put it so I just put it at the top of the page. Someone can change the position so it looks better if they want.Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 12:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

And also I think I've finished Clarksville, so you can look through that if you want to. You should try and get this game and have a go at playing it, cos it's brilliant!Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert

Ok, I think I've finished the guide now, I just need to add maps for each area, but on the to do list that comes after being spell checked anyway. Also, do I need to add a map for the Finale because I think it would be impossible to make a map for that, and anyway there's arrows all over the floor telling you where to go so you're hardly going to get lost. I can make maps for all the other areas though.--Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 07:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * From what you say, the Finale doesn't sound like it needs a map. But if it's large and possible to get lost in, then maybe it does need one (maybe you don't because you're good at the game!). I'm not sure. The todo list isn't really ordered - the final thing is really the spellcheck/copy edit of the whole thing (basically, final polishing). I would nominate it for featured guide now so we can get more people involved. -- 08:14, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'll nominate it now--Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 09:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

On the nomination page did you just mean that it needed to be copyedited when you said that it needs some finishing touches on the writing because I'm getting really confused now. -- Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 17:49, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's what I meant. -- 18:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Skizzers said something about talking about what the image is about and stuff like that (???) but what am i supposed to write in there then? I can hardly write much on some of them, like in the Watermill I think it till has 'The Lumberjack' on one of the images, but what else can I put in there? Also, I'm not sure if lots of people understand that you said to nominate it to get more people involved, because everyone is turning against the guide because it's not finished. No wonder I'm getting a headache! --Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 13:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry too much about it. We're all trying to help bring the guide up, and this guide looks like it should make it.  Getting to featured guide status will always be tough, because these are the best guides we have on the site.  Considering there are only 5 other cs5 guides so far, it's a rather exclusive club :).  If someone's comments are unclear, just ask for more details and I'm sure someone will provide a proper answer. -- Prod (Talk) 05:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks : ) And Skiz said to put the maps in a floaty box thing, I was wondering if someone could do that because I don't know where on the page to put them. He said that they shouldn't be way up at the top of the page, I think. --Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 14:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like you figured it out. The next thing to do is update the map with things like race course pathways, battery locations, etc. The image also needs to be in .png format, and should be recreated altogether. I'll try and make it myself if need be. -- 03:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I did save it as a png format when i did it on paint. --Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 08:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks like you fixed it! -- 09:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Unnecessary images
This is the only one in question at the moment, but I'm guessing there will be more as we clean up the guide. Are the following images necessary? If so, can you explain what their purpose is, or what they serve to identify or point out?
 * Image:Dog's Life Farmhouse 1.jpg

Ja, -- 22:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, it sort of shows you part of the Farmhouse level, and it's also showing you part of Clarksville. Is there a problem with having an image of part of the level at the beginning of each page? I think it makes them look good, but everything I think looks good everyone else doesn't like. --Melon247, The Dog&#39;s Life Expert 08:59, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The thing is, you don't really need to state the obvious. If you do want one of these "preview" images, we might as well make it large, center at the top, and give it some white space before the introduction to the level. The image does, however, display the car used to get up on top of the farmhouse, and so the image may be better suited to that location. One of the problems with all these images is there isn't enough room. Take a look at how we remedied this on the Mega Man X guide: we used galleries to show several smaller thumbnails next to one another - that way you can have more than one image for a short section if it's necessary or useful. Hope that helps. -- 03:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Current Issues
Well, I've finished a complete proofread of the guide, and now I'd like some input on a few things. The following is directed to Melon247, who seems to be the sole contributor of content.
 * 1) In the Pigeons on the Wrong Perch section, the man on the radio had a steak or he has a steak? Originally I changed it to has to make sense, but later he gives Jake the steak bone. So when you first see him, do you see a bone on a plate, and that's how you know he had a steak?
 * 2) On the Dog's Life/Mountain Slide page, the only strategy is centered around a cheat code. Now I don't see mention of learning a cheat code in-game anywhere else in the guide, so I'm assuming this is a feature being used outside of the actual Dog's Life world. If that's the case, you need to put in an alternate strategy (actually turn the cheat code into the alternate strategy) for people who want to beat the game as it was intended to be played.
 * 3) I know that you are playing the UK version, but in the interest of a multi-national readership, can we find a way to inform visitors about some British-English terminology? Some way to let people know the definition of words like "car park" or "trump."
 * 4) The last issue, and the biggest one, is consistency throughout the guide. We (you) need to come to some sort of consensus on formatting and spelling. I'll start a table here for you to edit. I'll start it with the things I remember coming across, and you can fill in how you want it to appear in the guide. If you, I or anyone else finds other inconsistent usages, they can add another row.

Updated - naj zere 21:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I've also left some ideas on the Featured Guide Nomination page, about splitting up some of the information, so take a look there also. - naj zere 23:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Captions are sentences, therefore they start with a capital, and end with a period. -- Prod (Talk) 04:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I added things to the empty spaces. I think it should be called 'Smellovision' because in the guide leaflet thing that comes with the game (and every game) it is spelt 'Smellovision'.

Character Page
I made a character template:

I redid the Characters page in the Sandbox using the template. I think I need to incorporate the level for local dogs into the template as well. I like this new way better because it eliminates the huge table of contents and makes all the pictures the same size. What do you think? - naj zere 15:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be against this. The amount of information per character is trivial at most, and the template as it currently stands moves the page away from the standard appearance of StrategyWiki pages. It also does not use standard headers, meaning the page markup makes less sense. This has the benefit of removing the ToC from the page, but you could've simply put at the top of the page to achieve the same effect. I think time would better be spent simply making that edit (and perhaps adding thumbnail sizes — 200px) to the page itself. Keep editing! --DrBob (talk) 16:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree on one point DrBob. I think that straying away from the standard appearance of SW pages can be a good thing in some cases.  In this particular case, I think it is a bit overkill.  However, I think the guide as a whole could use something a little different.  The idea of SW is to provide a cleaner, nicer look than plaintext guides.  This should come across in a manner similar to what Najzere proposes.


 * Let me explain myself better... I don't agree with the change to the characters page for similar reasons as DrBob.  I do think that this kind of variation on the standard SW guide is a good thing though, as long as the change makes sense.  Example:  Pokemon Red, blue, etc., has a nice look because of all the added tables, which include color.  Maybe the best option here would be to move the content from the characters page into the guide itself and use the new look there?  For example, the first time you meet Miss Peaches within the walkthrough, use the template.  In this case, the character information isn't really useful by itself, but does serve a purpose alongside the guide.-- Duke  Ruckley Talk 17:03, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't move the content of the character's page, as that acts as an appendix, however Duke's proposal is quite good. -- 22:54, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the template is a bit overkill, but definitely agree with some "personalization". Since the "local dogs" seem to be specific to a level/challenge, I'd say move those off the main characters page, but leave the main ones there.  I think the table of contents is useful since it's a fairly long page, but as we all know, really long ToC's look terrible :(.  However, I'd say keep this page simple and use the template for styling within the guide. -- Prod (Talk) 00:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd also suggest keeping these pages in userspace rather than a sandbox within the guide since it will mess things up if someone is updating the ToC and sees that in the Guide pages list. -- Prod (Talk) 00:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sound reasonable to me!-- Duke Ruckley Talk 00:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I could use a little clarification on some of these terms. What do standard headers consist of? And what is the userspace? Also, when a template is considered "overkill" is that in terms of using nothing but the template on the page, or the way the template itself looks? I just threw together random shades of blue for that, and I think it looks kinda heavy, you know? I like the idea of putting the local dogs' info in the guide, but I was thinking maybe something a little smaller and less attention-grabbing. Something between the current template and a sidebar. Is that what everyone has in mind? One more thing, is there a place where I can see standard formatting info for the site in general? Things like the colors, fonts, weights, etc. so I can make things look more like they belong here. Thanks, - naj zere 06:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I actually don't know what Prod meant by that... but a standard header is sentence, word, or phrase that follows sentence grammar but does not end in a period. By "header", I'm referring to wiki markup such as: " ==HEADER== ". I like the current format of the template, as seen in the guide with Lopez, but it could probably be better suited as a sidebar. If you're going for colors, you can check out MediaWiki:Common.css (see the talk page for readable stuff) OR if you have a graphics program you can screenshot SW and use the program to pinpoint specific colors. We try to rid our content of extra colors most of the time just for... standardizing purposes but if it looks good I dunno. For example Chrono Trigger/Techniques used to be complete colored (see one of the older versions of the page) until we started using prettytable for table layouts. -- 00:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * DrBob was referring to using standard headers like == xxx ==. Userspace means that any tests you do shouldn't really be subpages of the guide, but subpages of your userpage (like the sandbox you have).  It's overkill mostly because it isn't necessary.  The GUIDE should have some info about colours and things like that, but we try to stick to bluish colours. -- Prod (Talk) 04:02, 8 October 2008 (UTC)