StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal

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Adsense Announcement
Just so the previous thread does not continue to grow, and because the decision has been made, I wanted to start a new thread and announce the new announcement that I added to the main page. I was very thoughtful about how to phrase it in as positive a light as possible. Examine it, and let me know if you have any comments about it. But leave them here, don't edit the announcement directly. Thanks! Procyon 15:22, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * I edited your comment in the previous thread out. Don't do what you were saying.  Not only is it against Google TOS but it is completely unnecessary.  We WILL get banned for that type of thing.  And that would pretty much screw us over.  But yeah, echelon asap let us know what the results are and fix the alignment.--ConfusedSoul 19:24, 24 January 2007 (CST)
 * Note, this doesn't show up in the monobook skin, and perhaps others. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 02:06, 26 January 2007 (CST)
 * The width of the ad box doesn't bother me as much as the margin on the top. There should be a margin equal to the left and right margins between the ad box and toolbox. --blendmaster 18:10, 29 January 2007 (CST)
 * well, i don't like the Google Ads ad all. If you have to have them, please make them more different from the toolbox on the right side. As for now, the blue Google Ads look like some expansion of the blue Toolbox on the right of the screen. Maybe some empty lines below "related changes" (in the toolbox) would do a good job to better seperate strategywiki content from Ads.--Horstjens 13:58, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * So in summary of all comments so far (plus my own):

-- Prod (Talk) 14:14, 1 February 2007 (CST)
 * Put space between ads and toolbox
 * Either shrink width of toolbox or expand width of ads to make them the same width
 * If possible have only 3 ads so that the 4th doesn't go off the screen.

So, any news on funding? Recieved a check yet? --Notmyhandle 20:02, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Since we didn't deploy the ads on SW until late January (when we noticed Abxy was not going to pull in the requisite $100), we did not wind up meeting the month's $100 required earnings total (we were a dollar short!). Google carried over our January balance to February, and they won't mail us our February check until 30 days after the month ends--that is, the end of March. Google is earning interest off of this money in the meantime. Our check should be for over $200, and if my estimates are right it may be closer to $300. I'm going to begin a budget for purchasing one or two rack-mounted servers and I'll also start looking for colocation quotes. I'm also going to chip in some of the money I earn with CompSci tutoring at my campus.  ech elon  00:58, 16 February 2007 (CST)

Template:Toolbox
Can the funcationality of this template be exteneded to monobook? -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 19:21, 29 January 2007 (CST)

Userboxes
I've seen a lot of userboxes being created. So here's a few questions about how we deal with them. Many are created directly on people's userpages, which doesn't cause problems. However, many of these would be commonly used and would benefit from being turned into templates. We could do what wikipedia did, or we can pick our own way of doing things. We could create a Userbox namespace, but that could cause problems if that means that we "officially" support them. Another option is to put all userboxes as subpages of Template:Userbox, so something like Template:Userbox/Firefox (or even Template:Userbox:Firefox since it would look better as a template inclusion). Another option is leaving them in regular template space, and having them marked with Category:Userbox. -- Prod (Talk) 21:52, 6 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think that we should just stick with one userbox template which has flexibility, and so it can be used on people's user pages, with the right variables plugged in to customise it. I would oppose having a large number of userboxes (wherever they are) as they would be unnecessary (because all you need is one with flexible variables), and take up a lot of namespace space (i.e. be messy). --DrBob (Talk) 00:16, 7 February 2007 (CST)

Questionable/pornographic games
Things like Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude, Playboy: The Mansion, and Do You Like Horny Bunnies?. Do we allow pictures? Do we have a warning on them? Do we allow them at all? -- Prod (Talk) 21:55, 6 February 2007 (CST)
 * I believe we should follow the Wikipedian uncensored rule, but we should have a disclaimer notifying users that it is a pornographic game.  bibliomaniac 1  5  00:15, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * I agree with Bibliomaniac15. I think we should emulate Wikipedia, and allow useful pictures, but anything excessive should be removed. --DrBob (Talk) 00:17, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think we have to model ourselves after Wikipedia as much as possible, but perhaps we can provide a means of ingenuity about this. We have DOM-based article tags. I'm sure we could do Ajax-based image hiding similar in for to how popups works.
 * For instance, we could create a template that blanks the image with a X and instructs the user to edit a page such as User:Username/Age18 and fill in a "true" value that the ajax will check before showing the image in the template. This allows those who want to see images to see them and prevents harm to anyone who doesn't want to see the images. Just a thought.  ech  elon  00:27, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Then again, that requires user registration. That might be too much to ask?  ech elon  00:28, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * YouTube requires confirmation to view videos flagged as objectionable and I think creating an account may be part of that requirement, so I don't see creating an account as being too huge a barrier. Perhaps, though, it should be the whole guide that's blanked, since many of these games will have equally explicit text. It's also tidier than having 20 instances of blanked out images on a single page. This could be simply achieved by placing a template in the ToC, which is then inherited by all pages in that guide via the All Game Nav. GarrettTalk 02:15, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Currently, the AGN works so that when the page is loaded, the ToC is collapsed, and doesn't load at all if the user doesn't have js enabled (as opposed to the MapleStory/Skill desc which loads first, then shrinks). Something like that could perhaps be used. -- Prod (Talk) 00:32, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, now that I think about it, unless the sex acts are actually interactive (e.g. Hot Coffee) what purpose would images serve? It might be useful to have thumbnails for a summary of unlockable h-scenes or something, but other than that I'm not sure what purpose they'd serve. GarrettTalk 02:20, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * The only thing I would propose as far as a policy would be to say that no questionable images appear on the front page of the guide. It's just like a magazine cover.  The cover has to be presentable and acceptable to the public, but if you know what you're about to view and choose to look inside, then all bets are off.  Procyon 08:55, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Agreed. It might be an idea to make an "age 18" template to put on the front cover to warn minors, but I think censoring it is too far. If people are going to ignore an "age 18 only" notice, they're also going to bypass any other measures we put in place, and short of asking for a credit card number, there's nothing we can do to stop that. All that restrictive measures would do is to make life harder for people who are legitimately allowed to view such content. --DrBob (Talk) 10:59, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Images would serve to demonstrate gameplay (not all are adventure games..though most are). I would say we have the warning on the main page, and prevent any explicit language/images on the main page, but allow "anything" (relevant to gameplay) on subpages. Perhaps we could also add a 18+ category for images, incase we do decide to do some kind of hiding for them (easier for bots). -- Prod (Talk) 11:34, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think this the best course of action. Nothing should be hidden, but there should be a banner stating that the game is rated AO and the content that makes the game rated AO may be on subsequent pages, and that should be enough in my opinion. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 22:41, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Just an idea, why can't we use this to stop vandals putting their pictures on the site. We could put this template on all new images and have an admin (or a user with a few months experience) remove it when it has been checked for porn. If a user wanted to see the image straightaway then they could change the flag to True for Unchecked Images so they can see them.

I am new to the site so if this is a bad idea, let me know

Rocky 04:01, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think that would be too time-consuming and inconvenient, as 99.9% of images uploaded are legitimate. We usually catch vandals pretty fast, so I don't think it's an issue. --DrBob (Talk) 06:46, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Following Wikipedia: Implementing nofollow a good idea?
Seeing how we are trying to get StrategyWiki based off Wikipedia's effective policy, what do you all think about having nofollow in our external links?--Dan 09:23, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * To be honest, I tried to follow this discussion but I'm still not clear on the benefits that it provides. A lot of this pagerank stuff goes over my head.  Could you concisely lay out the pros and cons of this decision to make it easier to debate? Procyon 10:16, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Basically, a site gets ranked by search engines (for a large part) on the number of links to that site from others. This encourages certain unscrupulous people to spam other sites with links to their own (or a client's), to boost their own pagerank. If a link has a special "nofollow" property (relationship, actually) on it, search engines won't count that link as contributing towards the pagerank of the linked website, and so the incentive for people to spam sites with such links is anulled. I would strongly support putting nofollow on external links for precisely this reason. --DrBob (Talk) 10:57, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * For the past few months, we've only had like 2 or 3 useless links put on the site. I don't think the nofollow tag is useful unless we start getting spammed.  By having followable links to other sites, it gives the good sites a better rank, and they will potentially link back to us, helping with our rank.  So, for the moment, I'm against the nofollow tag. -- Prod (Talk) 11:31, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Seconded for the same reasons. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 23:05, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think it would be best to be preventative here. If people start spamming StrategyWiki, they won't stop. We should make sure they know that spamming won't do them any good before they even start. --DrBob (Talk) 01:42, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * No. There is no reason to have nofollow.  It would only hurt us.  Nofollow means exactly that, spiders aren't supposed to(yet some still do anyway)that link. Wikipedia is huge, google knows to spider them.  Nofollow will hurt getting our pages indexed.  Even if you could put it only on outgoing links, our outgoing links consist of abxy, dsmeet and actual relevant pages.  When we get a large amount of spam THEN we can think about this.


 * Not that it would change anything. People spam wikipedia for the traffic.  We'd have the same case if we got to the point of that much traffic for it to be worth spamming anyway.  And people that are spamming that would actually cause any damage would be using bots (or large amounts of indian labor) in that case they'd be targetting wiki's in general and whether we have nofollow or not wouldn't matter to them.--ConfusedSoul 21:55, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Transiki pages with large number of revisions
I've managed to write something that will allow me to export pages from wikipedia/wikibooks that are longer than the 100 revision limit. If needed, please leave me a message. This is only in the case where a regular Special:Export wont work. -- Prod (Talk) 20:11, 8 February 2007 (CST)

Pokemon sprites: Every one from every version, or latest only?
Now that I've taken on the daunting task of getting the P:R/B/Y guide off of the ground, I realize that I would like to present pictures of the Pokemon throughout the guide. The questions is, which sprites should I use? The way I see it, there are three choices: The point about using only the latest is nice cuz we only need to upload 386 pictures instead of every single sprite ever made. The only con is that we'd be using graphics from one version of the game for the sake of another, but it seems to go against certain principles of completeness. Anyway, I wanted to put the matter up for debate and get people's thoughts. Procyon 22:55, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * RBY: use the original black and white images since the guide is primarily for Red & Blue, and these were the sprites used by the game.
 * GSC: use the colorized version of the original 151 Pokemon, since Yellow had colorized Pokemon, and... well, you know... color is better.
 * Advance/DS: use only the latest version of the graphics. This has a couple of pros: they're nicer to look at and we only need to maintain one copy of any Pokemon (the latest) instead of three or more different versions.
 * Note that R&B had color versions... at least when using the Super Gameboy adapter attached to the SNES. --Notmyhandle 23:23, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * I would say, go with the best version of each series (yellow in this case). I don't see why we would have to upload all the images, as there are only a few important pokemon that are useful.  Most of the other info can be outsourced to ind...bulbapedia. -- Prod (Talk) 00:18, 9 February 2007 (CST)

Prod, you gave me an idea. How hard would it be to export all of the images here for us to use as well? I don't want to externally link to their images, I'd rather they be local. But the images are needed in a couple of places (like mentioning which Pokemon can be found where, and who you might fight against). I mean, we are the death of plain-text guides, right? Might as well live up to that reputation. Procyon 09:45, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * User:File Upload Bot (Kernigh) took care of them for the MapleStory/Monsters, so it should be possible to partially modify for bulbapedia. -- Prod (Talk) 10:05, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * If you take a look at Pokémon Red and Blue/Pallet Town, you'll get a rough idea of what I'm going for. Obviously, a) those images sizes are bad (too much white space), b) I don't want to link to an offsite image, and c) I would prefer to use artwork instead of sprites since artwork is not game specific.  So Prod, if you think that Kernigh could do that for us, I would be most greatful.  Thanks! Procyon 13:01, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * That's a great idea, but what about renaming? If we want to change the filenames (e.g. appending Pokémon, or adding a space between the number and the name) it's best to sort that out now. AFAIK Kernigh's bot can rename before uploading, so that should all be fine. GarrettTalk 18:30, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * I'm all for renaming. There should definately be a "Pokemon_" prefix to each file.  Then a template could easily be made for both the picture and the Bulbapedia link.  So we should end up with filenames like "Pokemon_001.png", "Pokemon_002.png", "Pokemon_003.png", etc.  And they should obviously be categorized together.  Let me know if there's anything that I can do to help.  Procyon 20:11, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * You should probably try getting in contact with Kernigh, he seems to be most active at Wikia. He took care of the whole image moving thing, so he would be the one to ask about any of this stuff. -- Prod (Talk) 20:32, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * Bah... I'll do it myself. You know, I should be able to code a Perl script for a bot myself, but I'm just too lazy to figure out how to do it right now.  I'll pull the images over as I need them. Procyon 21:25, 9 February 2007 (CST)
 * The pictures uploaded already probably need to be renamed. To be totally correct, they need the acute accent above the "e" in Pokémon. I've already fixed the category they were in to be like this. --DrBob (Talk) 05:27, 10 February 2007 (CST)
 * Wouldn't it be easier not to have the accent above the "e"? Specifically, when someone is attempting to use one of the images, it would be easier just to type an "e" than having to go find the accented "e" and copy/paste it or using the alt shortcut (which I can never remember).  In the end, its more efficient and I'm pretty sure there isn't anything else that is already pokemon without the accent.-- Duke  Ruckley  12:10, 10 February 2007 (CST)
 * Just for reference, the alt shortcut for é is Alt+0233. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 15:38, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Or Alt+130 --Notmyhandle 16:15, 19 February 2007 (CST)


 * Or if you use an english keyboard Alt GR (the alt right of the space) and e Rocky [[Image:Rally-X Rock.png|15px]]  (talk) 08:52, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Easy game addition
Check out this new page UI from the TV Wikia:

http://tv.wikia.com/index.php?title=TV_Wiki:Sandbox&action=edit

I was thinking that the options they have there could be translated here to make things very easy. We can create a template that we can link to from the UI to preload the page with the game infobox and AGN and other things. It's a relatively minor change difficultly wise but I think it would be very useful, what does everyone think? -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 18:38, 11 February 2007 (CST)
 * Me likes. I can only see it working for company, main page and ToC articles, since all others are customized. --Notmyhandle 19:15, 11 February 2007 (CST)
 * That can increase spamming of new games/companies/etc. We can use the New game template though. -- Prod (Talk) 20:15, 11 February 2007 (CST)
 * Can someone explain subst, perhaps in the Guide? --Notmyhandle 20:34, 11 February 2007 (CST)
 * I like. Definitely would be an interesting addition if it can be technically managed without open heart surgery of MediaWiki.--Dan 22:35, 11 February 2007 (CST)


 * Trying it out, just go to any redlinked article and click the button to test it out. (and don't make the article just to make this link blue :-P) -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 01:03, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * Nice. I've changed the colours to make it slightly easier on the eyes (although it still needs improvement), and changed the text to make it more descriptive. --DrBob (Talk) 05:52, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * Works great. Now we just need company & ToC.  Can the colors be modified by the skin?  Because on Blue Cloud it should be the commonly used purple (as seen in the lower left of any page) with a font color that stands out on top (maybe just black). --Notmyhandle 08:43, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * I'll set up the company one, but what exactly do you mean by a ToC page? Is there a standard I can look to for this that I'm not aware of?  I'm also sure it can be modified by skin, but I don't know CSS well enough to implement it myself, so we may need Garret or DrBob to do that (or anyone who can obviously). -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 09:05, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * Company set up, feel free to tweak. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 09:18, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * I set up the toc, but it needs MediaWiki 1.7+ since the BASEPAGENAME variable doesn't exist in 1.6. -- Prod (Talk) 10:45, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * Echelon? Garret? Dan? :) -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 19:41, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * nvm, Echelon's to-do list has that on there :). -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 20:04, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * So how do we edit those pages? And the game one needs the ratings parameter in the infobox, since it's required and will appear even if it's not in the code. --Notmyhandle 20:18, 12 February 2007 (CST)
 * The game one does not need the "ratings" parameter, as it's been superseded by the individual ratings parameters such as "ESRB". --DrBob (Talk) 03:21, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Look down VVVV, preload is what goes in the box when you click the button, instructions is what is shown above the box. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 20:26, 12 February 2007 (CST)

Also, links of interest (sorry I didn't list these earlier):
 * MediaWiki:Newarticletext
 * New game: preload - instructions - what it looks like
 * New guide page: preload - instructions - what it looks like
 * Company: preload - instructions - what it looks like
 * Toc: preload - instructions what it looks like


 * Until we upgrade the server I'm going to insert "REPLACE THIS" for every instance of BASEPAGENAME so that the template can be used (I would find it useful). --Notmyhandle 19:48, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * Added new guide page (as it seemed inevitable and useful for easy guide making), also, would you want to write instructions for the TOC preload? It's the red link, you can do it in the form of the other instruction pages. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 08:50, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Is it possible to add something generic to the summary, like Auto New game or something? -- Prod (Talk) 11:37, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * I don't... think so... -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 23:21, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Keyboard buttons
I've finally got User:Blendmaster/keyboardtest, and have created kbd for use in guides needing PC keys. I finally realised that we needn't use background images: we could just use borders! Now all we need to complete the controls for PC game guides is some images for the mouse and its buttons. --DrBob (Talk) 04:06, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Can we perhaps put in a switch statement so that you can use up and it'll put the up arrow? Simply for ease of use.  OR... I can throw on the charinsert that they have at wikipedia... -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 08:13, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * That's a good idea. I'll do the switch statement, if you give us a (cut-down) charinsert. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 08:32, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * There are two additional versions that we need. The first is the entire 9 button numpad, the second is the triangular representation of the numpad/arrow keys (left, up above down, right;4, 8 above 2, 6). --Notmyhandle 17:52, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Er, what? The keypad can be done by just putting the numbers into the template, and the arrow keys are done, are they not? --DrBob (Talk) 17:57, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well, I guess we could just do that. I was thinking of an actual representation to show the four or nine keys in the shape the are seen on the keyboard; like the 9 appear within a sqare, and the 4 are within a triangle where left is to the left, then down and up are vertically aligned and right is to the right.  Maybe you could post the code so that if someone wanted to (me) they could mimic the border style and create a table to create this illusion of an image.--Notmyhandle 18:06, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * It's not simple to find the up/down/right/left arrow character, so that's why I was wondering if a switch thing could be added for those (and it seems it has, or maybe it was always there, either way... niiiice, so you could do those easier since they will be used extensively I believe. I don't think there is a need to display the entire 9 key numpad in the template. you can easily create a template to do it if you need to, although I'm not sure what the purpose would be, to show, here is how you do that and the arrows. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 21:06, 13 February 2007 (CST)

789 456 123


 * The problem is that it won't work when using bullets, like on any normal controls page. I'll just make a mini image for it.--Notmyhandle 23:30, 13 February 2007 (CST)


 * Press up to shoot him.
 * What won't work with bullets? It just did, or are you referring to the numpad?  If so I don't see the need to display the numpad, they do know what one is. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 00:33, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well I feel the need for unity so removing all text in place of images is better than a mix. As such, I just came to the conclusion that tables might be a good solution (alignment, etc.); I'll be experimenting with that tommorow (today for some of you).--Notmyhandle 00:40, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * I'm with Mason11987 on this; where would you possibly need to display the entire numpad? Could you provide an exemplary link please Notmyhandle? (Oh, and Mason11987, I added the switch in after you asked for it. :-) ) --DrBob (Talk) 05:40, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * Like here. --Notmyhandle 21:43, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * That's fine how it is. --DrBob (Talk) 04:57, 16 February 2007 (CST)

List Counter
Is there some way to automatically count the number of bullets on the page? I want to request this feature within MediaWiki if it is not available, just wondering if you guys know since finding a place to post things on the mediawiki wiki is very difficult. --Notmyhandle 21:07, 13 February 2007 (CST)
 * Interesting, gotta ask... why? -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 00:32, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * Oh, and you request features on bugzilla, I can find a link for you if you can't. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 00:32, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * MediaWiki's Bugzilla replete with overlord bug. --DrBob (Talk) 05:42, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well it would come in handy for automating things like the statistic on the main page of how many level 4 articles we have. Stuff like that; it would be really useful on list pages on Wikipedia, where I first had the idea (for instance, # of games made by a company or # of cities in a state, with the number at the top of the page). --Notmyhandle 11:39, 14 February 2007 (CST)

Game Rankings
Do you think we should include (optionally, perhaps) a table that shows what the videogames are ranked (i.e. by gamepro, game informer, and such)? --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 18:12, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * It's probably a nice addition to the infobox. I'd vote yes. --Notmyhandle 18:28, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * I don't see why not. We could keep a metarating in the infobox too. I vote yes as well.  ech elon  23:27, 14 February 2007 (CST)
 * I have somewhat mixed feelings about this. We're a site for guides not reviews.  If you want to know how good a game is, try any one of those sites, it's what they're there for.  On the other hand, ABXY would be perfect for this kind of info (if it wasn't down).  -- Prod (Talk) 23:43, 14 February 2007 (CST)

I think we should just add an average rating. There would be too much stuff if we added all these reviews.  bibliomaniac 1  5  23:47, 14 February 2007 (CST)


 * Well, we could just make a list of approved rating boards (magazines/websites). I think it would also provide information that might be somewhat hard to come by otherwise (having a subscription for example).  It's also useful in that people would have a broader sense of a game before trying it out (most guides here come from fans, NPOV is what we want right?). --Notmyhandle 00:10, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * Gamestats compiles reviews from everywhere, we should just list theirs. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 01:47, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * I'm not too happy about doing anything like this. As Prod says, ABXY would be better suited to this, and if we start doing things like this with SW, we're opening a rather large can of worms in the wrong direction. I would be OK with a small link to Gamestats in the infobox, though. --DrBob (Talk) 04:44, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * I agree with DrBob, in the sense that this can cause some problems. Since every article is completely editable, if some hater came along and decided to lower the scores by some value, or initially report them incorrectly, it will take some effort on someone's part to verify the accuracy of each change.  Likewise, someone else could artificially boost them, and again, someone would have to be on top of verifying the reported scores.  Anytime someone disagrees with a subjective score, not everyone will have the maturity to abstain from changing it.  Don't say it won't happen... Procyon 10:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)


 * I think having an optional parameter in the game infobox that is the gamestats ID number would be useful, if you want to put it in, you put it in, and it'll show a link to the gamestats stuff, gamestats catalogs what many other sites/magazines put for rankings so that would be useful and NPOV. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 18:06, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * Actually there are quite a few of those sites around. GameStats, GameRankings, MetaCritic, etc.  If we can get our own reviews on ABXY recognized by any of these, that would help a lot with attracting new users.  For the moment, I would suggest we go with either gamerankings or metacritic.  They seem to be more popular. -- Prod (Talk) 22:57, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * AH, didn't know that, never seen those sites. Gotta check them out, and if they provide a more complete coverage then they should be used for this, as gamestats still has a very large following. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 07:36, 16 February 2007 (CST)

Game Ratings, required?
Within the infobox, I don't think ratings should be required because non-commercial games never have a rating and we have plenty (the number will grow of course) of articles already that cannot recieve an answer beyond "N/A" or "unrated." --Notmyhandle 22:56, 15 February 2007 (CST)
 * The problem with that is that there would have to be a most ridiculously complex qif to determine if all the rating fields were empty, in order to hide the ratings row. --DrBob (Talk) 04:55, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, so I'm gonna do that, give me a minute. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 07:21, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Done, enjoy :). -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 07:31, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * As I said, that's one big qif. Nice work Mason11987. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 08:19, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well yeah, when we have every rating system under the sun it's bound to happen, thanks :) -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 09:02, 16 February 2007 (CST)

Comments in Template:New game?
Considering the issue raised above by Mason made me think of one solution that might ease the pain of new users forgetting certain steps. The New Game template and corresponding button was, by far, the biggest step in the right direction. I would propose that we go one step further and add  to the template so that a user can see all of the steps that we are asking of users. So the first comment might be, "Please read the strategywiki guide if you are new." Then there would be comments like, "please fill out the infobox" and, "please provide some categories", and then some general things like, "Introduction goes here," and "Table of contents goes here, just edit the TOC page, not this thing..." I'm being very general for the sake of the usual readers, the proper language would have to be ironed out.

The only caveat to this is a fair amount of useless info being stored repeatedly in the database if no one bothers to clear the comments out when they are saved. (And in that sense, perhaps the last comment in the template should be  and see how well that gets paid attention to.)  I also wish the template would consider the name of the page you are starting when you push the button so that all of the name of the game tags would be automatically filled in. I don't know how hard that would be. Anyway, just a thought. Procyon 12:54, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * I don't think this would be useful. I can almost guarantee that the comments would be left there to rot, or that people who don't know wikimarkup might even remove one of the delimiters and mess up the page completely. Instructions like this are best put in the text above the editing box (temporarily forgotten the page name for this, but it's linked to in the original discussion). Your last point may be possible once we upgrade (I don't really know :-P ). --DrBob (Talk) 14:06, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Couldn't we just automate it to remove the comments, or is that not possible... kinda like how works... --Notmyhandle 20:34, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * Um.... I don't think so. I also don't think comments would be that useful.  We can always improve the instructions shown above the edit box. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 01:48, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * What about bot usage? Removing comments sounds like it would be simple. --Notmyhandle 02:32, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * It would be fairly simple for someone who had a bot, and it would only need to be run through all the new New articles that don't have a "/" in them. Not having any idea how to make a bot or operate one leaves me with little more to say though. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 08:37, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, but it gets tedious to run bots, and nobody would ever remember. I think it would be cleaner to move all the inline comments out into the header box (which looks nice now :-D ). --DrBob (Talk) 12:43, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * True, true, and what do you mean exactly?
 * The bot is easy enough to write (simple find/replace) but it means you can't have comments in the page at all. It's not a big problem, but it could be. -- Prod (Talk) 12:54, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well, if it simply removed the exact comments left over that would be best, although you being the bot guy, it's all your call really. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 15:31, 19 February 2007 (CST)

Edit summary
Whats with having to summarize every single time you contribute? It is extremely bothersome. 0-172Talk to me 00:16, 17 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think it's so that other editors don't have to trawl through your edits and compare them to the current edition - it just saves time.--Froglet 18:35, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * It's also just good practice. I'm all for the policy, however, I would like it if it wasn't required for a preview. Procyon 18:43, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * I'll look into disabling it when you're previewing. --DrBob (Talk) 02:54, 17 February 2007 (CST)
 * Same here - writing 'expanded', 'spelling' or 'AGN' isn't that troublesome - just appreviate it down to a few short phrases or a short sentence.--Froglet 18:54, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think it's incredibly irate that a javascript window is displayed if I don't include a summary. Is there any way we can make the notification friendlier?--Dan 19:35, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * That does make sense, but it can become annoying. What if you make a minor/small change (or any change for that fact) and you cannot easily describe your change as a summary? Also I agree with Dan. I am not a big fan of the javascript window either. Lunar Knight(Talk - Contributions) 20:12, 16 February 2007 (CST)
 * If you cannot easily describe your change, just put "Cleanup". I cannot think of a better way to force people to use summaries than using a JavaScript popup; anything else would be non-modal, and could (and would) easily be ignored. --DrBob (Talk) 02:54, 17 February 2007 (CST)
 * Is it a big enough issue to need such a thing? We have an option in our preferences "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary".  We don't need it to be forced. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 01:39, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * It makes a sysop's life so much easier if there are edit summaries in recent changes, and if summaries aren't forced, people won't write them. Please tell me if you think the JS could be improved usability-wise. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 12:45, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * I do understand that, but if our ease in doing our sysop job is increased at the expense of writing guides as usefully as possible then I don't think it's worth it. Although I use monobook so I've never even seen this implementation so it doesn't really effect me.  But I'm going to have to bring up the point that wikipedia doesn't have this, and they function well enough.  My suggestion would be to have the preferences option about this selected by default and then users who are more accustomed to this system can turn it off if they like.  -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 15:27, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Is it possible to just disallow the commit and put a message (in big red letters) near the comment box (and set focus to the comment box)? Just to note, MediaWiki 1.9 (or maybe 1.10) add some automatic descriptions for simple things ('Replaced page with 'blah blah, 'Redirecting to 'some page, 'Blanked page'). -- Prod (Talk) 12:50, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * We can put a stronger notice near the summary box very easily, I think that would be the best option. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 15:26, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * How is that different from a message box, apart from the fact that a message box is more likely to get noticed? :-P --DrBob (Talk) 12:30, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well, it's less annoying, and doesn't require an extra click, and doesn't actually force you to put in an edit summary, just makes it known that you should and it's easier for others if you do. So it's pretty different actually.  Also, the popup doesn't even differentiate from an edit to a section where the editor added no summary, or  one that was added individually, for example, my edit summary for this was loaded with the default "/* Edit summary */" text.  I still don't think an popup box would be good though. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 10:00, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Template Ab
So I created Template:Ab (Arcade Button) in hopes of simplifying the move list pages, since they take forever when writing them. So far I've made a generic copy of the Gc template; the problem is some of the Arcade Button images have only two words in the file name, whereas the template is set up for 3 word file names (Arcade-Type-Specific.png vs Arcade-Specific.png). Is there some way we can set up a case to specify? For example we could do for images like  and  for images like. Thoughts? If anyone can do this for me, I'd really appreciate it. --Notmyhandle 18:50, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Crap, I'm sorry Notmyhandle, I thought you knew about Template:Cade. I had been meaning to get around to all of the fighting game pages and convert it over, but I never got around to it. Procyon 19:17, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Welp, might as well throw a delete notice over there. Hah. All this time I'd done it completely by hand.  No wonder I haven't finished the Capcom vs. SNK 2 list yet. --Notmyhandle 19:28, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Additionally, why do you use reversed file name syntax? You use the second pipe for the third part of the file name whereas I switched the template syntax in Ab so that you basically wrote the file name, Ab|Stick|Right for example.  The reverse stuff is kinda weird...  --Notmyhandle 19:33, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * I didn't write the template, Blendmaster did, but he hasn't been able to contribute for a while now. I don't really think there are many pages utilizing the template yet, so you could change it to the way you would like with minimal impact. Procyon 19:38, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Cade also needs to be modded to allow the use of [[Image:Arcade-Plus.png]]. I was thinking that maybe we would use Template:Plus instead, since it would reduce the strain of loading so many images since it loads like 500 of those arcade-plus.pngs whenever the page is loaded right?  Changing to a text alternative seems like it would help... What about that?  And I'll go ahead and focus on modding cade. --Notmyhandle 19:40, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Actually Notmyhandle, it's not the reverse, it is cade|Stick|Right. And there is a Template:plus, as well as a Template:( and a Template:)  Procyon 19:43, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Whoops, I was wrong about the name. Procyon 19:45, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Im talking about replacing instances of the image with Template:Plus, I know it exists, that's why I suggested it. Text instead of images is all I'm suggesting.  --Notmyhandle 19:50, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Just a notice about loading, it doesn't actually load each individual image for every instance, it loads up each unique image once and caches the image for use throughout the page. So in a worst case scenario, it would have to load 63 unique images, and no page really uses every single one. Procyon 19:56, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * They're <2kb as far as I can tell, kind of a non-issue even with that kind of numbers. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 20:07, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Can you guys help me fix the template? For some reason it adds an endline character or something, an invisible break tag and I don't know how to fix it. --Notmyhandle 20:22, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * made very small chagnes, not sure if it fixed anything, are you looking on Move Lists/Capcom/CVS2? As that looks quite good as is.  I'm also about to work on making the TOC more compact. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 20:35, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well I fixed it, and reduced overall template code significantly by removing redundancies. Still don't understand why the problem existed. --Notmyhandle 20:41, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * I saw those changes, very nice. What do you think of the new TOC I set up? -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 20:54, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Whoever has access to bots, can you replace every arcade image with the cade template? --Notmyhandle 20:48, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Forget it, that's way too much parsing for a bot to do properly. It's going to take elbow grease, and good old Find & Replace. Procyon 20:50, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * If you need a hand I have nothing to do right now, I could take care of it. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 20:54, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Gosh Mason, if you really don't mind that would be great, but in all honesty, I would consider it a very low priority in comparison to some of the cleanup tasks that DrBob has on his list. But if you want to go ahead, by all means, please do.  P.S. that TOC is awesome! Procyon 21:07, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Eh, it's not really that big of a task. I consider myself quite good at the find and replace :).  Would have worked first test out, if I didn't try to do shorthand  and other lower case leading things.  It should be good now though.  I'll take another look at bobs list in a few. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 21:19, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Actually I've been wondering about that whole backwards thing. Just to note, all the button templates follow that backwards style. -- Prod (Talk) 22:04, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * Well this one doesn't XD Btw, MOVE LIST COMPLETE YAHHHHH --Notmyhandle 22:07, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * So, what exactly needs to be changed? If it's easy enough to put all of it in one regex, it shouldn't be too bad. I'd rather not take more than one pass since there are quite a few move lists. -- Prod (Talk) 23:35, 19 February 2007 (CST)
 * The template is basically perfect; I mean it uses cases for simplification but if new files are added the template doesn't even need to be updated to be able to use them. So if you meant what needs to be replaced, well images.  And I'm not sure but should every image be placed within the case statement of the template?  Is that a bad thing?  There aren't that many more to do anyways.  --Notmyhandle 00:50, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think you misunderstood my question. I'm asking what needs to be replaced on the pages? Change Image:Arcade-???-???.png to what? I want to see if it's simple enough for my bot to handle. -- Prod (Talk) 00:59, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Changing Image:Arcade-(A)-(B).png to or simply  . -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions)
 * That's what I did on one page, althought I didn't realize how extensive the move list thing had gotten. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 10:45, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Changing [[Image:Arcade-(A)-(B).png]] to is easy enough, worrying about special cases of when to ignore (A) is a little more troublesome.  Looking at the template there also seem to be some which are [[Image:Arcade-(A).png]], which I assume would go to {{cade|(A))). I'm thinking something like "[[Image:Arcade-(.*?)-(.*?).png]]" to "{{cade\|\\1\|\\2}}, and then a second time with "[[Image:Arcade-(.*?).png]]" to "{{cade\|\\1}}".  If anyone has an idea on how to merge those two regex's that would be good :). -- Prod (Talk) 23:11, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * It's already done! Like I said the template is basically perfect.  It allows shortened versions to be called, I.e. {{cade|Max}} and longer such as {{cade|Button|3xPunch}}.  See the code for yourself.  The one thing thats debatable is whether or not to place every image within the case statement to remove the whole Button/Stick usage parameter that was originally used and is in the filenames of some images... I don't know whats best, but many are already in as I've said. --Notmyhandle 20:58, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * So, you're saying there aren't any pages using the images without using the template, and none of the previous uses of the template broke due to the change (I'm too lazy to go searching right now)? -- Prod (Talk) 23:11, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * No, the template works but has only been used within the Capcom vs. SNK 2 movelist. There are many more pages that need to be converted; i.e. Street Fighter and its successors. --Notmyhandle 23:53, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * What he is saying is that every use of [[Image:A-B.png]] can now simply be replaced by {{cade|B}} so there is only one situation to deal with.  -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 09:56, 21 February 2007 (CST)

infobox glitch
Check out the top of Gothic: Collector's Edition. I didn't add a rating (as I couldn't find one) and doing so mysteriously added whitespace above the template. Additionally,  itself now isn't working (see BS The Legend of Zelda). I assume this has to do with Mason's recent tweaks but what I thought should have fixed it didn't. GarrettTalk 20:12, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Heh, I saw the page, and tried to fix the template before even seeing this note here :P. It was due to the lack of the comment line I think, since that gets rid of a line break (I think >.>).  Oh well, fixed now. -- Prod (Talk) 23:11, 20 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yay!  still doesn't work, though. GarrettTalk 03:25, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Ah, my mistake. I thought all uses of ratings had been superceded, but this is obviously a situation where it makes sense to use that tag, my mistake... fixing... -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 09:51, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Fixed. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 09:53, 21 February 2007 (CST)

Endorse Firefox?
I just took a moment to check something out. Rocky reported having trouble with the layout of the tables on one of the Pokemon pages in Internet Explorer. Being a staunch Firefox user, I figured I should look at StrategyWiki, for the very first time, in IE6...

OMG, the lack of png transparency support is hideous. And a few of the table layout choices just completely bust. It was to the point that I was kind of ashamed of my own work when viewed through IE6. Now, I don't know how many users (readers or editors) use IE6, and whether IE7 addresses some of these problems as, clearly, I don't use it. But I would like to propose that we, as a site, make some kind of statement such as "Looks best in Firefox" or something to that effect. How does everyone feel about this? Procyon 11:04, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * "Looks best in Firefox" sounds a bit too much like "Looks best in 32-bit colour at 640x480". :-P We should strive to make the site work in IE, but not too hard. I think a bar at the top of the page saying "Why not use a better browser such as Firefox or Opera?" should be at the top of the page if the user is viewing in IE. It shouldn't be too intrusive though, as many people are forced to use IE through no fault of their own. --DrBob (Talk) 11:38, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Alternately we could use the Firefox+Google Toolbar button and earn money from people making the change through us... considering the troubles abxy has been having, the money could really be put to good use buying more RAM or whatever it is the server lacks. GarrettTalk 13:10, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * That's a very good idea. I like it a lot. :-D --DrBob (Talk) 17:12, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Png works just fine for me in the Pokedex so it may just be IE6. I'm going to go on a spree to fix stuff that doesn't work in IE.  Starting with the archive template at the top of this page.  (I miss FF2.0's spellcheck...) -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 14:18, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah. One of the widely-advertised features of IE7 is its correct treatment of modern images compared to IE6. ;-) --DrBob (Talk) 17:12, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Another reason firefox is great is due to the addons. The Ressurect one is particularly useful. If the sw crashes due to whatever, you can still see a few of its pages (albeit an earlier version of them). I used it a lot to view walkthroughs during the december downtime and the digg effect. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 15:15, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * The Png transparancies vary from image to image; see compared to the others (left click, right click, etc.). --Notmyhandle 17:33, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Isn't there some magical Javascript hack that gets transparent PNGs working in IE6?--Dan 17:44, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Here. --DrBob (Talk) 01:29, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * Here's a better one. --DrBob (Talk) 01:36, 22 February 2007 (CST)

List of stuff that doesn't work the same in IE.

 * Mediawiki code for  will push a  to the full width of the screen, I replaced the one in Template:Archive with -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 14:23, 21 February 2007 (CST)

IE 7

 * Div style float widths cannot exceed 99% in total; will create a second row if so (see game categories to the left for example). --Notmyhandle 17:30, 21 February 2007 (CST)

IE 6

 * External links and bulbapedia links show up just the same as ordinary links (in-site.
 * You have to highlight the stub template to see the words (usually)
 * Small .png's have a black background if they are reduced in size (e.g my rock in my signature, hopefully it looks better in FF)Rocky [[Image:Rally-X Rock.png|15px]]  (talk) 11:47, 22 February 2007 (CST)

External links: what is the criteria?
To be honest, I feel bad for User:Snesmaster after reading his remarks on the LOZ Talk page because I moved his external link from the main page to there, and gave him a final warning about external links. My primary concern was that every single one of Snesmaster's contributions seemed only to have the intention of plugging his map site. He hasn't contributed anything else but links to his site, and that seems (to me) like a kind of abuse. But now I feel kind of bad, based on what he is saying, and I'm not sure what the procedure should be. Do we have a defined policy on external links? I know that Echelon has a philosophy (which many of us share) that SW should be all inclusive, and should not have any need for external links, in so far as game content is concerned. Official homepages, trivia, and specialized topic pages seem accepted too, but Snesmaster's links don't seem to fall under these categories. Procyon 21:04, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * They should be available until a SW version exists or is included in the site (external links). Snesmaster's images should be uploaded if he wants them affiliated with SW; maps are going to be huge and they ARE allowed on SW. --Notmyhandle 21:17, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Btw, I'm a big fan of your work. --Notmyhandle 21:19, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * (edit conflict)Personally, I think we should try to be a standalone website. And the way we have our main pages set up, external links sections look somewhat messy (below a long toc, and people are likely to miss it; above the toc and it also looks bad).    The images, if possible, should be uploaded to sw (assuming he holds the copyright) since they fit within what is useful.  Actually the MapleStory guide has a fair number of external links, many of which are very useful for people playing the game. -- Prod (Talk) 21:21, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Look at what time of game it is though Prod. MMOG's often have spinoff communities and sites that yes are very beneficial (for example Thottbot.com for WoW players). --Notmyhandle 21:31, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * Another cause for concern is the fact that the page he's linking to (which happens to be his own) is full of Paypal links so that people can contribute to him for his work. Now, I agree that his maps are extremely high quality, and very well done (if not somewhat busy for my tastes), and his work would serve as nice contributions to the site.  But there certainly couldn't be any indications for paypal contributions on any of it.  (It also raises a fundamental question of how to present oversized maps, which is why I went to the trouble to break the overworld up in to parts, but one problem at a time.) Procyon 21:46, 21 February 2007 (CST)
 * He posted a link to his site what, 5 times? The one I checked had a tiny image for paypal at the bottom...  Uh we have ads too hahaha.  I don't think he's causing much of a problem, and he should directly link to a specific image where appropraite rather than broadcast the whole page for what seems like blatant advertising. --Notmyhandle 22:19, 21 February 2007 (CST)


 * We should be the best source of all game related material. His material is the best (so it's been said) but we can't actually have it here.  In order to still be a source of the best game related material we must link to it if it's not possible to actually have here.  As long as the site is not directly hindered by ads I don't see how our desire to remove it because of that can supersede our goal of being the best source.  If they are as good as it's been said, and we cant' actually have them here, then we should make them as accessible as possible (such as having a link to the map of an area underneath the section talking about it. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 00:10, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 * Indeed this should be our temporary policy while heading for the goal of collecting our resources. --Notmyhandle 00:20, 22 February 2007 (CST)