StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal

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Broken SVG rendering
The SVG to PNG rendering is completely broken. For example look at Wikimedia's rendering of an upscaled compared to ours. Not only is there no transparency, for some reason the smooth rectangles end up being fuzzy... any ideas? With behaviour like this, SVG is far less useful. GarrettTalk 16:51, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Was the original svg image just created using fuzzy lines? Thus whoever made it should just make another one. Other than that I have no suggestions ='( --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 16:55, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * They're both the same image. I uploaded the Commons version here. I recall Blendmaster mentioning the lack of transparency in the past, but this is far more significant as it indicates some SVG images won't be rendered correctly at all. GarrettTalk 15:48, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * We're using the default MediaWiki 1.9 list of SVG->PNG converters, so there's something wrong with the configuration of one of them, or something else wrong on the server. This probably a situation for Dan. --DrBob (Talk) 16:34, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm going to pin this on ImageMagick for now. I'll check out our phpinfo and php.ini and see if there's any additional info.  ech elon  14:32, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure why it would be doing that... IM and GD are usually all or nothing affairs. I'll take a look at the installations and talk with Dan about it the next time I see him online. --PowerMatt 15:08, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks Matt!  ech elon  15:47, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure if this is relevant but if you go into the upload.wikimedia website there is a prompt to install Adobe SVG viewer on IE6, for our media.Strategywiki there's no prompt at all but it shows up.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 07:44, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

InvisiClues
Here's an idea that would work for many game guides. InvisiClues were used in Infocom games, and even though I'm not a giant interactive fiction enthusiast, I say the idea has merit - especially when hypertext format makes these clues dead simple to implement.

I just blew my enthusiasm to hell with Twilight Princess when I basically looked at one spoiler from a complete walkthrough; if I had only gotten a clue that would have told me I'm on the right track, that would have kept my enthusiasm going.

So this is what I'm thinking - we could do InvisiClue-like things: (Highlight to see, be careful if you hit Edit as that shows the solutions in plain text, obviously)

How do I get to the north tower in City in the Sky?
 * 1) [ There's clawshotable panes here. What do you think? Clawshot from pane to pane. Duh. ]
 * 2) [ But they're not turned properly to get all the way, are they? Well, it would be cool if you'd make them turn all the time. ]
 * 3) [ There's a switch to make them turn nearby. ]
 * 4) [ Yes, that big fan on the outer wall is involved. ]
 * 5) [ That's right, the switch is on the roof of the central room. ]
 * 6) [ You've probably checked out the top rooms and figured out a way to shut down the big fan on the central room's ceiling. Ever wondered why you did that? ]
 * 7) [ Yes, so you can reach the central room from above. ]
 * 8) [ Clawshot on the grating on the roof of the above room, then lower yourself to the main room. Use second clawshot to get yourself to the ball switch. ]

The good idea with these is that initially, they give only hints that let you know you're on right track, without giving away the entire solution. For example, to my own credit, I already figured things out to step 7 without any assistance, but I was growing frustrated with the level and had no idea if that really was the only option that I should have been focusing on. Now I hate myself for looking at GameFAQs... --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 06:51, 31 March 2007 (CDT)


 * I guess it would be a good idea, I got these from wikipedia but what about text-only browsers and screen readers, it might also be a copyvio and people who set it so that text colour might not be changed. Other than these, it's a good idea --

Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 07:13, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Er, I don't think it's a copyvio; I didn't mean copying Infocom InvisiClues wholesale, I meant creating new clues for other games in the same format. I don't think the idea is patented or anything, and folks like UHS use similar scheme anyway. =) But you're right about text-only things, and (as said above) there's also the problem that hitting "Edit" will show all of the clues; if this is implemented, these things have to be considered too. I'm thinking of some CSS/template wizardry here. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 08:13, 31 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Actually, I don't think hitting edit would be too much of a problem, I guess that if you wanted to improve something then you should know the plot and the solution first. BTW try logging out and hitting the above edit button, you can't even see the source.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 08:33, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
 * This could be resolved by using comments (like this), but, yeah, I don't think that's much of a problem. GarrettTalk 04:49, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Umm...


 * Besides, chances are if they are looking at a guide, they'll want the solution itself, not just pointers (as Midna is good at giving those). The only problem with the spoiler template is that you can't read it without javascript enabled... (and if you have anything else concerning the Twilight Princess guide, leave a message on the guide's talk page or my talk page, as I'm the main contributor) --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 13:38, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

This is an interesting idea. One way of implementing this would be to open with a hidden set of brief numbered points, and then a non-hidden full walkthrough further down the page (like Grand Theft Auto III/The Fuzz Ball, only with the "Brief" section whited out). This way the clues would be a sequential solution (more like UHS) which is preferable since the "how do I?" organisation of FAQs has largely gone out of style in favour of step-by-step walkthroughs. It would also be easy to put a JavaScript-powered link beside each answer to reveal it with a single click, just like how YouTube's URL/embed code is completely selected when you click in the box. GarrettTalk 04:49, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

I don't think it's necessary to have game play descriptions a game's main page.
They're very nice and dandy to have around, but having game play information on the main page of SW guides is redundant. Take Super Mario Sunshine for example. It has both the story and game play information split up into sections, merged into the first page. Both these things [story and gameplay] are usually seen on a site trying to sell a game. We're StrategyWiki, where we assume the only reason someone would look up a guide here would be to get hints for a game they already have. For larger games, why not just give game play information it's own page?--Dan 10:23, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I completely agree with Dan. The gameplay part usually can find its home in the Getting Started section, and the story, if necessary, can have its own section (much like The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess/Plot). --The preceding un signed comment was added by this guy Whine-Vandalisms 10:46, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

StepMania
Hello, I would like to know if StrategyWiki can host a few fairly large large text file as a mod for Stepmania, it will be a list of steps for a custom song in the game, I guess I would licence it under the GDFL and if anyone wants to, they can improve it and save the changes. Does anyone think that it wold be a good idea?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:37, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If these files are not part of a walkthrough for the game, and are just a mod, then I don't think it's appropriate. StrategyWiki is for game guides, and I don't think we're ready to dive into the whole new cooking pot which is modification hosting. --DrBob (Talk) 17:58, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Any stepfiles can be better hosted elsewhere. It also seems like not much has been done to the Stepmania page recently. Can you really do much to it anyway? Like.. it's just a DDR Simulator.. there is little to be said about it in my opinion. Rhonlore 12:16, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I've got a few screenshots and will get round to it someday. Ultimitely, I'm planning on hosting a spoken tutorial to play in the game if I can but at the moment I've got a lot more guides to attend to but any help will be appreciated.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:56, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Guide completion
To help this month's Collaboration of the Month I've created Guide completion inspired by Prod's suggestion. This is experimental; the counts are done manually, and there are currently only lists for Sega 32X, Sega Master System, and Windows Vista.

Anyway, see what you think--right now I've got 300 Game Gear entries to double-check. :) GarrettTalk 03:40, 2 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Looks really good, I'll help. Couldn't we categorise alphabetically but with the little SVG in the categories e.gCategory:Windows 9x so we can quickly see the level. I've done something similar for the master system but having it in the cats would make it much easier.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:15, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * P.S, I mean editing how categories work so you can put to get it into the cat with a no.0 svg next to it, is this possible?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:20, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * That's not possible without changes to the software itself, and even then it might not be easy to do. I decided against putting images in because it would be difficult to upkeep, although it does help point out those most in need. Tomorrow I'll look into how difficult it would be to do a complete overhaul of the num system to allow templates like Wikibooks, meaning you can write  and it would turn into [[Image:0004.svg]] Golden Axe. Updating the num requires a child template to be edited, but if the sneaky hack I have in mind will actually work that will be easier to do. Hm. Anyway I'll have to see.
 * Right now I'm basing the entries off GoodTools lists as it's very unlikely that a game exists without having been dumped, whereas MobyGames/GameFAQs/etc. only list foreign/obscure/unlicensed games if someone adds them first. Of course there are no such lists for newer consoles, so that problem remains... GarrettTalk 04:39, 2 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Ok, what about putting these lists on the cleanup project so every month they will be updated, I think that would make checking easier. Or even another project devoted to that list?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:43, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

I think I've got a template that works, can sum1 check it out? It's here, to do this, you put which will give, the first parameter is if you want a cat.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:54, 2 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I've perfected it and the finished version is at Num--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:42, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * A few questions:
 * Is there any use other than the guide completion page?
 * Why include a category, it's not as clear as just typing, or are you trying to get a text link to a category (like Category:Games)?
 * Is it that much easier than just typing Game Name [[Image:000x.svg]] (especially if it ends up being a bot handling this stuff)?
 * -- Prod (Talk) 18:23, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * A few answers:
 * Possibly, but at the moment, no
 * I have absolutely no idea, I personally think having category separate is better. I really don't see the purpose of a text link, though, so I think Rocky was going for actually including categories
 * It saves 12 characters with numbered parameters and 3 with named parameters, so its a bit less typing, and I don't think it would be too difficult for a bot to handle (then again, I know nothing about bots)
 * --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:08, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Actually, Garrett, I think I've got an easy idea to put the game in all of the cats at once with the num but I will need a way to have an image as a title, is this possible with a hack?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 08:18, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

Pop the champaign bottles! 3,000 articles!
It's a mighty fine day, don't you think?--Dan 19:49, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * w00t!   --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:20, 2 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I was gonna make this thread, but then I thought it would be more appropriate if someone else took the risk (3,000 isn't definite, aka "articles" could get deleted en mass as I've seen before). But yeah I was on the front page at 2,999 and I was like... hmmm.. and went ahead and started Evolution Worlds! XD StrategyWiki FTW! --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:55, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Site Problems
I'm having problems with the site, half the images aren't showing even thought they're there and it's changing skins to a very very basic one, does any1 know how to fix this.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:57, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * about 52/200 images are showing in categories
 * There's a problem with the media server which holds all the images and themes. It'll be fixed. --DrBob (Talk) 04:29, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not exactly sure what was the cause of the issue, but whatever it was, it's now fixed.--Dan 08:11, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Was thttpd down? I wonder if there's a way to check whether or not it is actively running so that if it ever crashes we can restart it. I do know for a fact that when the server restarts thttpd fails to restart. :(  ech elon  23:20, 4 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well I think it's down again now but it's not as bad as before.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:14, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I just restarted thttpd. I don't know what the issue is. :( I'm thinking of making a PHP script (for Sysops) that allows people without server access to run the startup command using php's exec or something similar. (I wonder if that would work? I'll look into it when I wake up tomorrow.)  ech  elon  02:31, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Preload Templates
Does anyone think it would be a good idea to have a list with guide specific templates, e.g for Procyon's Pokémon pages or the FF7 Pages, these would have all of the templates alreay filled in and optional info as a hidden commentto be used or discarded, I've made my own for the Pokémon G/S/C guides here and the code to add on the end of the URL is: &action=edit&preload=User:Rocky/Temp%20Page. What do you think about this?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 07:14, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think that's probably introducing a little too much complexity, and it would have to be updated every time someone comes up with a new guide-specific subst template, or one goes out of fashion. A better thing to do would be to list them clearly on the talk page of the main page of a guide, so that new contributors can find them there. --DrBob (Talk) 07:58, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Color Scheme standardization and Pretty Table
Alright, so the use of Pretty Table is so that our tables look similar to one another, i.e. standardized. However it makes any good looking color customization impossible. Is this what we want? Bland, monobook/wikipedia styled tables? Even Wikipedia has some color in their infoboxes (see musician pages for example). Isn't blue cloud like, a main feature of StrategyWiki? Shouldn't the rest of the site reflect that difference, that this isn't just a plain website? I say something has to change. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:34, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If we have any people good with images, I suggest a banner at the top of the tables and infoboxes with artwork. e.g zelda, link and the triforce.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 03:05, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There was a similar suggestion for guide-specific header images a while back, which is probably a better idea. --DrBob (Talk) 12:52, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * There's no point in putting colour in tables for the sake of making them colourful. Colour should be used sparingly (because it creates an accessibility nightmare, and most people can't seem to choose colours which don't burn your eyes out), and is typically dealt with by templates like yes and no. There are situations – such as the Pokémon RBY guide – where colour has been used to great effect, and that's all done with prettytables. --DrBob (Talk) 12:52, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It looks like Pretty Table adds a table to the header cells, see how they have padding or something on the top edge or so? I find that annoying and ugly, can it be removed? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 19:30, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm afraid I don't understand what you're describing, but you can always change your user CSS so that you've got different padding/margins for cells in the "wikitable" class. --DrBob (Talk) 06:52, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I might as well pile on here. While the "Viva la Revolucion"-like passion is admirable, it's not especially constructive.  One of the best ways to affect a change, (and the way in which prettytable became adopted as a standard in the first place) is to implement something yourself, and see if people gravitate to it or not.  If you come up with something good, people are going to immitate it.  If you come up with something that is more suited to your own personal tastes, people are going to leave it alone.  It doesn't mean what you've done is bad, it just means that other people don't find it appealing.  So to both Notmyhandle and Rocky, I would say that you can both serve the SW community best, and cause a change by doing and setting an example, instead of inciting debate.  Just my $0.02.  Procyon 17:09, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I'll see if my image editing skills are up for it. Just my 2p:)--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 17:12, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Football category
I've been doing some categorisation/cleanup work around sports this morning, and I think it's time we addressed the categorisation of "soccer" games and "American football" games. Currently, we only have a football category, which is used for American football games, and English (proper) football ("soccer") games are just categorised as sports. I propose we abolish the football category, and instead have an "American football" category, and a "Soccer" category. This is basically how Wikipedia does it. I would then have Football as a disambiguation page to the two; linking to it would be discouraged in favour of linking to the redirect pages for either category specifically. --DrBob (Talk) 06:56, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree, DrBob. I think that would eliminate any confusion.-- Duke  Ruckley  15:36, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

Tools of the Trade
Thought that might get your attention. I was wondering, are there any tools or ways to take screencaptures of Nintendo DS and similar apart from using a darkened room and a camera? So far my attempts at taking such screenshots look amateurish and the glare caused by camera flash renders some images unuseable. I know there must be a way out there somewhere, they do it all the time in strategy guides and suchlike with very nice looking screenshots, but I can't seem to find or figure out a better way.--Froglet 11:02, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not legally liable for what you do with this software. :-P --DrBob (Talk) 11:18, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * StrategyWiki does not endorse or condone the use of emulators. I had to say that for legal purposes. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 13:45, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You're allowed to use emulators if you own the game. And (at least wayyy back when for old, old arcade emulators) you could use any game on an emulator for 24-48 hours even if you didn't own it.  But you'd have to delete it afterwards.  --ConfusedSoul 14:08, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No, it is completely illegal to download ROM's. Unless you yourself make the data backup and do not distribute it, it's illegal.  Here's a quote from Nintendo.com, "Can Websites and/or Internet Content Providers be Held Liable for Violation of Intellectual Property Rights if they are Only Providing Links to Illegal Software and/or Other Illegal Devices?  Yes. Personal Websites and/or Internet Content Providers sites That link to Nintendo ROMs, Nintendo emulators and/or illegal copying devices can be held liable for copyright and trademark violations, regardless of whether the illegal software and/or devices are on their site or whether they are linking to the sites where the illegal items are found."  Scary eh?  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 14:15, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Emulators are legal as long as they do not contain copyrighted BIOS code. Copiers are legal as long as they do not bypass copy protection (which is usually in the system rather than the media). ROMs are legal as long as they are made from your own copy (in the U.S. and some other countries) or you at least possess the game you have acquired a copy of (in some countries outside the U.S.). This is U.S. law. Nothing Nintendo says to the contrary can be used to press charges. For all extents and purposes, linking to any emulator (other than bleem! and a couple of others based on BIOS dumps) is perfectly lawful. It is only the acquisition and use of ROM images that we cannot support or endorse. GarrettTalk 15:52, 7 April 2007 (CDT)


 * This is turning into a discussion about legality of emulation... Nintendo DS emulators can't perform well yet anyway, even if you did legally have a ROM. I wonder how game review sites like GameSpot capture footage and screenshots? I've seen video reviews of Nintendo DS games where there is perfect quality video footage of games, from both the top and bottom screens, so there must be some way to do it. --VinceIP 16:00, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, as long as we delete the link we're OK. BTW Ubuntu linux has a link to ePSXe built in.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:07, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, I've seen a cable coming out of the back of a DS from SLOT-1 on GameSpot's On The Spot webcast. It may be worth looking into, as I remember researching such a device in the past.-- Unsigned, by Rhonlore (Talk)
 * Vince, I assume they use a computer to capture images from TV's using a TV tuner. Handhelds would probably have to do the same some how, connecting either to an external screen or the computer directly.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:50, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * My main gripe about this whole ROM thing is that a.) if it's not illegal then it's in a dodgy grey area of the law and b.) my computer doesn't like that sort of thing on it (long story). The main problem is that the official sources (such as handheld producers) downright refuse to produce devices that permit screen capture.  Sure, there might not be too much of a demand, but it wouldn't be that difficult to make it publicly available for someone to take images for uses such as guide making.  The companies are self defeating in that they say 'don't do this', when they often leave people with no other option.  Okay, end of rant, but you can see the pitfalls of using ROMs and other stuff.--Froglet 11:30, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

What have I been up to?
At the (dangerously naive) risk of assuming any of you care, you may have noticed that my edits dropped off quite substantially as of late. The last thing I was working on (besides the Pokémon Red and Blue guide) was The Tower of Druaga guide. I had to do a lot of research to find things out about the game, and I discovered more information on the PC Engine version of the game. But the game was in Japanese, and hard for me to understand. So I did what any sane, rational, video-game obsessed person would do: I translated the ROM into English. One day I was looking at the contents of the ROM and I realized that the text was neither compressed, nor encrypted, and with a little help from a coworker of mine, we set about translating every lick of Japanese in the game into English (with the exception of one sub-screen where the words are done in graphics instead of text.) I've been working on that for a little over a week and half and it's finally done. The screenshot here is proof of my work, and as you can see, I dedicated it to SW ^_^. I have submitted the patch to RomHacking.net so it should be made available to anyone who wants it shortly (whenever the next time is that they update their site.) Anyway, I should be resuming my regular edits soon, but if anyone has any questions about the ROM translation process, I'll be happy to answer them. It's good to be back! Procyon 17:37, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice work Proc, makes me proud *sniffle* to know such a great nerd. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 02:12, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Amazing work! I have only one niggle: we're canonically strategywiki.org rather than strategywiki.com, but still, kudos to you and your coworker. :-D --DrBob (Talk) 04:50, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh crap! Thanks so much for pointing that out DrBob!  I just fixed it and recreated the patch.  It doesn't appear as though the patch was picked up yet, so hopefully I was able to slide the fix in before they examined it.  Worst case scenario, I'll have to find something broken and resubmit the patch as a new version.  Procyon 11:58, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Great work :D! But is it meant to say NAMCOT, shouldn't it be NAMCO?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:23, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No, Namcot is correct. That is actually unchanged from the original ROM. See here.Procyon 16:32, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Great work Procyon!--Dan 09:43, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Such Namcot info should reside on SW and Wikipedia... --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:07, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Update: The patch has been posted. Grab it from this page. And the good news is, the .org version was picked up instead of the .com version. A few bits of information still need to be posted, but you can grab the patch at any time. Procyon 15:11, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

SW mentioned on front page of www.arcadecontrols.com
It turns out that Saint of BYOAC (Build Your Own Arcade Controls), is a big fan of Retrogaming Times Monthly which I edit. So he asked us if he could post info about our issues on his front page, to which we said, "Of course!" and I told him that I've been a long-standing BYOAC member with my own controller (more pictures of it on my homepage), and that, among other things, I worked on a MAME Guide for SW. Well, he decided to roll all of that information up and post about it on the front page of his site. It looks like we attracted at least one new editor from the plug (he made some edits to the MAME guide). Just wanted to share the news. Procyon 15:17, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Nice ferrets Proc XD --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 15:24, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Can we get this added to the Wikipedia article and post it soon, it's been stuck on this site for months, all we need is a sereenshot and it's ready, BTW great work Proc!!--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:27, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Abbreviation Standards
It's come to my attention that abbreviations such as HP and MP could be varied as Hp and Mp. However they lose the two word emphasis, making it more like "Health-points" or just health in general (or hit-points if you like to deem it as such). Do we have rules for this? Are Hp and Mp valid? Are they better? Does such a standard already exist (like some sort of grammer)? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 00:33, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * They should both be capitalised, unless they're spelt differently by the game producer for a specific game; then they should be written as specified by the company. --DrBob (Talk) 05:04, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree with DrBob. Go with all caps unless it is specific in the game.  Though I can't think of any games off the top of my head that use Mp or Hp over MP or HP.-- Duke  Ruckley  13:48, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Triple Triad Wiki!
Hey guys, I'm planning on starting up a wiki where players can play wp:Triple Triad games against each other and collect cards and other such things, just like in FF8. I figured one of the best communities to look to who might be interested in something like this would be a community familiar with MediaWiki and who likely enjoy the FF games. If you guys would participate in something like this if the wikia is made, post here in  Comments from the community with something like this:

~

I would appreciate it. If you don't plan to play, but still think it would be a neat idea it'd be nice to post there as well, but I don't think that would be taken as a serious vote if you aren't normally on that site. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 01:13, 10 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Does Wikia have a scope? It seems like it's all compendiums at the moment. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:15, 10 April 2007 (CDT)


 * I honestly don't think it has a scope, basically if it sounds like it'd make a good wiki, then they'll make it. But I'm just looking for people who will vouch for it's good-wikinesss. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 01:18, 10 April 2007 (CDT)


 * here is a link the the new wiki that was just made. I hope some of you stop on buy and register. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 21:24, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * And here is a direct link to enroll in the game to get your starter deck. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 10:23, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for the link, I signed up for it (looks fun) --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 17:59, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

'''Mason11987_vs._StijnX, our first game! -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 08:18, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Undo Revision
When you press the undo link when looking between diffs the summary is wrong, it says (Undo revision 128080 by Special:Contributions/Rocky (User talk:Rocky)) whereas it should say (Undo revision 128080 by Rocky (talk)), can sum1 change this please.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 03:55, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * done. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 07:26, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Great, thanks!
 * Sorry, is there a way to stop it saying that I haven't provided a summary even though the text is in the box.Thanks.Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:53, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Thats a check box in your settings. Its there for people like me who are anal about always filling out the summary field.  --Argash 17:52, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
 * That's actually the problem, I've got the box checked but when I use the undo feature, it puts a lot of text in the box but a message appears saying that I haven't provided a summary, try it out here, feel free to save.Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 00:44, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It worked for me just now. Are you using MonoBook instead of Blue Cloud? Sounds like a JS error or something. GarrettTalk 00:55, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's probably IE6 then (sigh). It still happens for me, just a question though, do you have prompt me when not entering an edit summary ticked in preferences?Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:08, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * No I don't, but the Blue Cloud-specific JS equivalent kicks in anyway. You could always try adding an arbitrary character (a space, even) to see if that is enough to satisfy the check. GarrettTalk 03:24, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, the js is enabled in MonoBook as well, and it requires at least five characters for the summary to be "valid" (no idea why its messing up with undo revision though, as it has an auto summary) --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 08:06, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually the limit is only in FF, I only realised when I tried editing in FF, that's why I use "more" in my to do, there's no warning or anything, also my summary now doesn't give a warning.Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:20, 30 April 2007 (CDT)

Weird page glitch
Is anyone else seeing this on Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time besides me? It appears on both IE7 and FireFox 2.0.0.3. I tried to fix it, can't see any wikimarkup errors. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 23:00, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It was a missing  on the ToC. This glitch has sprung up on many of our guides for some reason. I've fixed it now; if you see something like this again, check the ToC as that's likely the problem. GarrettTalk 23:55, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Is there any way that we can stop this like the way Wikipedia won't allow unblanced tags in the sig box?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:52, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Not really. :-( --DrBob (Talk) 06:45, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Edit Conflicts
Is there a way to add the name of the person you had an edit conflict with, when it happens I have no Idea who it is with then after I saved, I usually find that it was with myself (clicked the butrton twice)--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:07, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You can usually see from the "your text" and "their text" what the conflict was over. I'm gonna try pressing the button twice to see what happens... -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 18:13, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Again...
 * Ah, yeah, it just showed the change I made that time, or something. Even when edit-conflicting yourself, you might want to look into what happened exactly, but if it's possible to get that info, it would be useful I imagine. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 18:13, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, once I thought I had a conflict with one person, I was trying to help them when actually it was with the main author of the page and there was no way to tell that it was with the main contributor, so I put my change in (Which was a revert because I gave up) and I had a questioning by the main contributor about why I reverted. So it would be very helpful.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:52, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Does SW want 100% accurate name references?
Wikipedia often goes with the normal first letter of the name capitalized syntax, even if the actual name is all caps. For instance, INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS, a development team from Nintendo actually spells their name in all caps, see the logo on the category page, see their website and even the reference on the Super Paper Mario website at the bottom of the page. I say that their name should be in all caps. Dr. Bob says hey, Wikipedia doesn't have it listed like that. What do you guys think? By the way, this sort of thing should go into a policy page like Naming. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:04, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I see no problem with all caps, it does seem more correct, just make sure the regular case name redirects to the all caps case. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 21:23, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I would say that the name of a game/company/console should reflect the exact spelling that is printed on the packaging/manual. When in doubt, I verify with GF, not WP.  Procyon (Talk) 22:03, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I say we stick to what the company wants of themselves. I don't count logos towards what the name is, since many capitalize everything, or make some letters bigger in the logo, but type them lowercase in the name (consider StarCraft vs. Warcraft III).  The main resource I go with is the official website for the company, and look for them mentioning their own name.  In this case I support full capitalization. -- Prod (Talk) 22:19, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think Ech, DB, and Garrett should put some input before any action is officially taken. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 02:19, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think that we should have it in non caps but put a little note that it was due to technical restrictions like wikipedia uses with This Template--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 03:13, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If you're sure the company does spell it in all caps (and not just on images), then sure, change the category. We shouldn't put it it non-caps and talk about technical restrictions, because there aren't any. :-P --DrBob (Talk) 04:36, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Honestly, I don't think it matters all that much. I see that the official page and even the page for Advance Wars all has it as all caps, but I don't think it really matters all that much.  I think that referencing them as INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS all the time will be more annoying in the end.  I don't see how it would be wrong to place them in lowercase letters, especially if other places do so as well.-- Duke  Ruckley  12:12, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * So does GF. Procyon (Talk) 12:54, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I was going to make that point (I find it annoying too), but I thought that it would get in the way of being technically correct. I suppose we have to weigh up both sides; do we want to be technically correct, or stay sane? --DrBob (Talk) 13:10, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * @ DB's last post: I say we become technically correct but maybe only in places such as the infobox name, since I can see how a lot of people might complain or get "annoyed" at all caps. What I'm thinking is like on the Int Sys cat page, we just put all caps for the infobox name, and put a note on the category page talking about it, etc.  Why should we give in to social standards when we can be better than them? XD --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 13:38, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Sounds reasonable, but it could be hard to maintain/apply in all locations. --DrBob (Talk) 16:34, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
 * As an aside, it is interesting how I.S. goes to such lengths to expressly write their name in capital letters on that English page. What I can't help wonder though, is if they're a Japanese company, are they doing so because upper case and lower case has no meaning in Japan, and so they just went with whatever seemed correct, or was it a purposeful conscious decision...  Just a thought... Procyon (Talk) 17:04, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

As another note, I brought up this question to a friend of mine who asked me a single question. Is StrategyWiki's goal to be neutral? If so, then we do not want to make it all caps. That could be seen as a form of advertisement (probably why it shows up like that on their website).-- Duke Ruckley  11:46, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Buttons above the edit window
Does anyone think that we should coustomise this a bit, add a few things that we need and remove things that we don't need, I have a few ideas about this, here's a list, feel free to comment and add to this list:
 * Remove Math (when will we need it?)
 * Add AGN with |game=
 * Add prettytable
 * Add footer
 * Add Image thumbnail
 * Hidden comment
 * Spoiler Template (1 + 2)
 * Hidden notes (the ones you highlight to reveal)

These would mainly be used by the more experienced users of the site that don't always use the new guide page button so it's simpler for them.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 09:49, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Keep math, it's rarely used so it needs a link. AGN/FN sounds good. Prettytable is more of a suggestion I think, so I'd rather not put that. Image thumbnail is all explained on the images page, and it might get confusing with the regular image link.  Hidden comments shouldn't be used much since talk pages are for discussions and they are easy to type. -- Prod (Talk) 10:05, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * What about a spoiler template button?--Dan 13:25, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Great, just add it to the list. One thing to bear in mind is that we also need the buttons for these, I'll post my ideas here, if anyone else wants to have a go then put them there, just to warn you beforehand, my image skills are terrible so any help'd be appreciated.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:37, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, I think it would be a good idea to make the buttons a competition, just a bit of fun and maybe a plaque on the user page of the winners.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:43, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I've probably jumped the gun a bt but here's a blank button to experiment with, I made it myself. [[Image:Wikibutton_Blank.png]]--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:54, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

Whoa, whoa, whoa... time out. Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea? I mean, I know that we have a number of policies that don't exactly lend themselves to new users easily, but how is adding a button to the top of the edit window going to solve that? Part of becoming a member of this community is learning the processes that we all use to build a page. Now, I was able to learn how to do all of those things that are mentioned above with relatively little difficulty, and as a result of figuring out how to do them, I have become not only proficient with the use of those concepts, but I have also gained the ability to permute them however I like and become an even better author. Yes, I've typed more times than I can truly remember, but it's a habit now. Whenever I start a new page, I slap the AGN and Footer on there before I get working on anything else. Adding a button to the edit window creates a once-removed effect from the understanding of how to use things like the AGN and Footer. And if you don't know what the AGN is in the first place, how are you going to know to push that button? The starter templates (new guide, new company, etc.) I completely understand, those are good time savers (I don't use them personally, but I see the value of them). But these new edit buttons, I see 95% of our user base either not knowing their purpose or function, or not even realizing they're there to be taken advantage of. And you're going to go to a lot of effort to implement them, which seems like a waste of time. Feel free to disagree, it's no skin off my back if you implement it, but I just don't think you're going to get the kind of payoff you expect to get from them. Thd bottom line is, if you want users to become better authors, don't make it so easy for them to not learn how. Procyon (Talk) 17:44, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, you're probably not the only one that thinks this is a bad idea (only 4 people said anything at all) but this is mainly designed for the experienced users to save time (so you don't have to type out the AGN and can get to work on the guide more :-P). But do you think that a good compromise would be in the user css or js files, then you could add them if you want to or remove them when you don't want them.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:30, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It might be better to add these as as text buttons instead. They are both more visible and also somewhat self-explanatory without pointing to them first. Having said that, we probably want to keep that selection to a minimum. GarrettTalk 04:52, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

I added a few of them to the Insert template below the edit box, under StrategyWiki markup. -- Prod (Talk) 20:34, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

Sidebar
Can someone with a bit more experience than me edit MediaWiki:Sidebar to make the community issues link point to StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal rather than Community Issues please?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:43, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Done. --DrBob (Talk) 12:13, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

56K, Mobile Internet devices and StrategyWiki
I know this may hardly be on anyone's mind, but what are we going to do with the handful of unfortunate souls that run 56K or phone? StrategyWiki's main goal, after all, is about bringing the advents of the 21st centuary to video game walkthroughs, but there is always that little group of users that probably weren't ever able to load StrategyWiki in a comfortable time. Maybe there is some sort of preference to be made that allows dial-up people to use a simple skin and have images downsized for their viewing pleasure. The same may go for people browsing from mobile devices, like a PSP. But that's just my stray thought on it.--Dan 13:08, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * We could probably put something in the files somewhere to automatically put it on a simpler skin but from my experience with a 56K modem, it doesn't make much of a difference, broadband's great for when you're getting videos off youtube but with a modem you can wait for a page to load. It may be a good idea to set the default of images in cats for 56K users to about 20 because they take a long time to load but the main pages aren't really a problem with 56K (I should know, broadband is very expensive over here :.
 * So you're proposing all images not on the main page be replaced with Wait Kitty while the page is loading?--Dan 09:16, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I didn't actually mean it like that but it'd be a good idea if you only had to load it once, or we could crop it so only the DS is showing with Loading under it, that would make it better. But what I was saying is that images don't take long to load on dial up and you can wait 90 seconds for a page to load, it's not that long really.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 09:39, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

StarSonata Mission!
Anybody know about the A48 Passcard mission and where it leads from where to where like.

Sol to shadow, shadow to free market like that cause it says find pink card, find balik and my map is full of holes can somebody tell me from first to last mission of the chain goes?
 * First of all, please sign your posts using ~ . Second, what game are you talking about, is Star Sonata Mission! the title of the game?  Third, have you checked if a guide exists?  If it doesn't, well then the likeliness of someone knowing will be less...  Finally, after you figure out your problem, please contribute to the guide!  Hope someone can help... --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:15, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The game is Star Sonata. I haven't played it, though, so I don't know how to help either. GarrettTalk 23:19, 17 April 2007 (CDT)

Another Wiki StrategyGuide site
Has anyone checked out http://www.gamerspress.com/index.php?title=Main_Page ?? If it's GFDL we might want to use some of their work. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:03, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's not GFDL, it's a Creative Commons license, so we aren't compatible. Also, by what I've seen on the site, NPOV is virtually nonexistant, so it wouldn't really fit here anyway. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 18:00, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Alternatively, we could contact the seemingly single author of all of those walkthroughs on that site, and see if he would be interested in contributing. But I doubt he'll be inclined since he probably has a lot of ego invested in the success of his own site.  Procyon (Talk) 19:44, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh well, I'll still be using it as a temporary resource (I've found WAY too many inconsintencies with Chrono Trigger and have to do my own original research). --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:56, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

IRC Problems Revisited
The Java applet isn't working for me, it says something about the traffic - does anyone know if I could get to the strategywiki channel using Trillian?--Froglet 06:07, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * You can. Server: irc.abxy.org, Port: 6667, Channel: #strategywiki--Dan 09:24, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

Daylight Saving time
Is there a way to remind users to recheck from their browsers about DST, can we have a warning or something because a few days ago I realised that the histories were wrong. Can we have a warning on top of the watchlist like wikipedia did (Though it wasn't for DST), it would be helpful. If we do do this, could we have a dismiss link as well so that people that don't want it won't have it.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 06:14, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Even more detrimental to histories is this huge thing called timezones. =/ --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 06:25, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I know, it'd be a good idea to automatically put your time prefs in your sig and histories so I'd be +6 (I think). Then again it'd be better if the world was flat :-P--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 06:54, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure what your specific concern is. The database server stores every edit in GMT (+0:00, technically the number of seconds that have passed since Jan. 1st 1900), as is the standard for many international databases.  Any time settings that you apply to your user preferences are only applied after the database look up shortly before the content is delivered to your client. Procyon (Talk) 08:35, 21 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's a minor thing really but the histories will have your old time zone and they'll be out by 1 hour. I though it affected sigs but I was wrong.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:02, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

StrategyWiki QR Code
If someone has one of the properly enabled cell phones, taking a pic of this works just like a link to the main page. Further info on wikipedia. -- Prod (Talk) 16:42, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Determining Completion Level
Just out of curiosity how is a guides completion level determined? Is it just each editors best guess? Or is there a formal process? --Argash 23:36, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Right now its just editor best guess. We have very generalized levels at the moment; but its based on the walkthrough part of the article.  Refer to Category:Guides by completion stage for more information.  Later on, when the community gets much larger I assume we will start having a review process/committee groups start going through and actually assesing them.  But for now its pretty simple, i.e. nothing, something, more than just a little, almost done, done.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 23:42, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I would have to agree. Right now we're not large enough to require the kind of bureaucracy that would mandate a committee or voting on completion level. For now, if there's a dispute the best way to settle it is to use the talk page or community portal. If you ever feel something doesn't match its completion level, just edit it. Be bold!  ech elon  15:18, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

Mobile Phone games/genre
When working on ActRaiser I noticed that Wikipedia has the game listed under Mobile Phones as a platform, since Square Enix made a version of the game in 2003 for such a platform (according to Wikipedia). How do we accurately note this information? Should a general Mobile Phone genre be created? I don't have a cell phone, but what sort of software is involved? Does it make a difference? Do the cell phones themselves, the model or brand for instance, change anything besides availability of the games and software (engine)? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:40, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Category:Mobile. -- Prod (Talk) 20:41, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Mmk. Ambiguity for the win.  What should it be categorized under the game platform though?  Mobile Phone or just Mobile?  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:04, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The problem with the genre is that the game will probably be very different so we would need a disambig page for the game and that would be annoying with games that are already done or half done.Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 00:57, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's pretty much gaurenteed to be different, although since 2003 I assume much has developed in the way of cellphones. ActRaiser was a game that got reduced to a three level platformer.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:34, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually for something like this we could probably do ActRaiser (disambiguation) and link to it at the top of the main ActRaiser page. I say that since the SNES version is WAY more common and what people would most likely be looking for.  Thats how disambig typically works on WP anyway and I don't see any reason why we shouldn't copy their policy on this.  --Argash 08:54, 27 April 2007 (CDT)

Interesting recent feedback
Hello everyone. I have recently been polling a lot of the retrogaming community about the layout and formats of our guides (specifically, but not exclusively, the ones that I have been focusing on), and I've received some interesting feedback that was not along the lines of what I expected. The predominant concern that I've heard is the lack of awareness of the existence of information beyond the front page of a game. Despite the fact that we include a Table of Contents link in the AGN, and despite the fact that we typically include a TOC somewhere on the front page, not everyone realized that these were actual functioning and complete links. And these are not unintelligent people by any means. One person commented that the The Legend of Zelda/Walkthrough, whose current content I am primarily responsible for, was very sparse. When I asked him what he thought of the content that the page links to (e.g. Underworld Level 3, Overworld Section 5, etc.), he did not realize that the blue words were hyperlinked. Again, these aren't dumb people, and I think they are primarily mislead by the preconceptions they have about FAQs and Walkthroughs in general, where everything of interest appears on one page. Our multi-page approach is even a departure from most Wikipedia articles.

By no means would I ever suggest that we revert to an archaic single-page format. However, I am beginning to reconsider how important it is to stress the existence of information beyond what can be found on the page they are currently looking at. For this reason, I am strongly considering moving the TOC's that I have listed on each of the main pages for the guides that I have created above the introduction! And not simply move it, but expand upon it so that it's clear what information can be found. For example (I'm using Pac-Man here): ...and so on. I'm not sure if this is overkill or not. I would prefer to leave the TOCs where they are, but perhaps that may lead to continued confusion over this issue. We know that the format we're using is good. I just wonder how effectively we are communicating this. How does everyone else feel? Thanks. Procyon (Talk) 13:00, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Controls & Characters: Descriptions of the game's controls as well as every player and enemy found in the game.
 * Gameplay tips: Learn the various features of the game, and survival techniques.
 * Home version comparisons: Find pictures and descriptions of every home conversion of this game made, as well as comparisons of their differences.
 * Looks great, we'll have to redesign it for bigger guides but it looks OK. IMO I think that we should make the TOC link stand out a bit more, on my first visit to the Chips Challenge page, the AGN was really confusing, It took me a few more visits to work out about the show button.Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:30, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think this makes things just look really messy, and totally detracts from our vision of being organized. The newer game ToCs (as seen in OoT) have done a great job in attracting people to view other areas of the guide, mainly because they are near the top of the page and receive lots of screen space. Not in an entirely critical sense, your proposed format isn't clean as the descriptions, since each description are clumped next to each respective link and makes it stand out no more than any other paragraph. If our goal for the ToCs is to make them newbie-friendly and accessible, we should work with a system that already exists and works well, that ToC system being the one employed in the OoT guide. Immediately, anyone can recognize that it is the one stop place to navigate around the guide as it resembles a Table of Contents in a regular book, and anyone who has ever been through school or have seen a book to the least will be familar with this system, and thus know how to use it. The pros of this system go on and on and on, but I'd rather stop here and let you figure the rest out to your heart's content.--Dan 21:49, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I for one really dislike having descriptors next to ToC links; its messy, unnecessary unless you're brand new to the site and don't understand what "introduction" or "getting started" or "controls" or "characters" means. When someone goes to a page, the top should have a small note in italics if there is any confusion about another page that contains related but separate information; i.e. character bios versus move lists.  Luckily we often make the information duplicated so that both pages contain the same thing.  Reiteration is quite powerful, but unnecessary if excessive.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:11, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Dan, I completely agree with you about LOZ:OOT (although I personally hate how much white space exists between the intro and the TOC. We should get at least one image in there to fill the space.)  But that format only works well for guides that require such a large TOC, like OOT, or Pokemon, etc.  It's much more difficult to generate that many pages for older games, and at the same time, we want to avoid throwing all of the content on one page.  The result is the 4~6 or so page template that I've been following.  I'm just not certain how to highlight the TOC more than it is (in both navs and in the center of the page.)  Maybe it really is just a matter of experience.  Maybe there is a "learning curve" to using StrategyWiki, and some casual users may not catch on unless they visit frequently enough.  I don't think that's an adequate conclusion to the matter, but I don't have any other ideas. Procyon (Talk) 22:46, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm blank on ideas as well, but I do know for one thing that if we don't call something a Table of Contents and instead call it "In depth", you won't find many people using that as a ToC. It has to be made so that if we wish to introduce the idea that there are more pages beyond the first, we have to have a uniform way to do that (aside from the AGN), and calling every bunch of links a ToC will help. Of course, small game ToCs might not have to be in the exact same layout as can be found in the OoT guide, but things surely become easier for the newcomer.--Dan 08:33, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

I just had an idea for newcomers and non-registered users: we could put a notice below the nav bar on the left that says some basic stuff like "Blue links lead to other pages and red links are currently empty." It might help... And by newcomers I mean like display the message for the first ten days after registration. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 18:18, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

I haven't read all the comments, but we have the Continue Nav's usually after intro sections (or should be adding those, link in the bar just below the edit box). Perhaps we should also clarify the One game, one guide slogan. -- Prod (Talk) 19:03, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * You know, when you're right, you're right. Prod and Dan have both provided me with rather constructive criticism, and although it will take some time to apply these to all of my guides, I will change "in depth" to "Table of Contents", and make sure all Introductions are followed by a Continue Nav. I am also contemplating moving things like the box art galleries to the home version comparison pages if a guide contains one.  I'll work on Pac-Man first and get your thoughts when I'm complete.  Procyon (Talk) 19:36, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

Reformat test
OK, I redid the Pac-Man front page in an attempt to incorporate the ideas presented here. I moved the box art gallery to each appropriate section of the home version comparisons. Not sure if switching between a left and right picture for 1-2 images, and a gallery for 3+ images was a great idea. Anyway, please take a look at the main page and the home versions page, and share your thoughts. Thanks guys! Procyon (Talk) 22:25, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I think it looks great. Additionally, your thoughts would come in handy for the StrategyWiki:Guide and applicable policies.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:54, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

Collaboration of the Month URGENT
It's the end of the month, and there's no Collab assigned! See main page A.S.A.P! --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:11, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Heh heh heh, I'd been wondering about that... Get to it guys, gals, etc, put votes in if you haven't already, sort this out Quick!! :-P --Froglet 04:08, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * We still need a promising guide of the month. Vote, people!--Dan 08:27, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Currently, Pokémon Gold, Silver and Crystal is in the lead with 2 for votes and 0 oppose votes! I'd say this candidate would win unless some new votes are added (and/or new candidates)! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 16:28, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I opposed G/S/C, but I want to be clear about why I did. At some point I intend to reformat G/S/C to the format that R/B/Y uses, and the less stuff that's already there, the easier it is to do.  I know it's not for me to say, "no, you can't do that," and I'm not trying to say that.  I'm only asking to be given an opportunity to get through R/B/Y and then I can start G/S/C in earnest.  Read my comments on the collab page for more.  Procyon (Talk) 16:47, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

Math Tag, doesn't work?
I tried using the math tag and it failed: $$This = Fail$$

Is something wrong? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:06, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It might be disabled... If that's the case, it should really be removed from the toolbar. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 18:10, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Math? Who needs math on a site like this? :P--Dan 19:39, 2 May 2007 (CDT)