User talk:Procyon

I welcome any and all feedback here, so please post your thoughts. Thank you.

Re: Upscaling
Hi Garrett. I noticed you upscaled the images on the retro titles I worked on. That's cool, however I was trying to conform to the changes that DrBob made to my Donkey Kong page. I'm comfortable following whichever formatting is correct, but now there's a discrepancy between DK and the other pages that I started. Just want to know which one I should use from now on (and if DK needs to be fixed.) Thanks!


 * Oh, I didn't see that change. On the SNES/Genesis guides I've been doing I've included the screens at full scale. I don't think one is more correct than the other, but to me it's silly to make a screen blurry when for only a few pixels more it's crystal clear. Of course that's what using an LCD does to you... :) GarrettTalk 16:32, 27 June 2006 (PDT)

Image categorisation
I see you've been uploading a few images lately. When doing so, could you please make sure to categorise them using the correct image categories? The image policy is viewable here, and contains all the information you'll need to categorise future uploads. --DrBob (Talk) 06:40, 25 July 2006 (CDT)


 * Additionally, could you use more than one category where appropriate please? I just had to add to all the LOZ images you uploaded, because you'd only categorised them as sprites, where they are actually both sprites and characters. ;-) --DrBob (Talk) 05:02, 11 August 2006 (CDT)

Enhanced Sprites
Those sprites you've been making for the DK games are pretty awesome. I've been wondering, is there any particular way you're working out the shading/highlight/fade colors, or is it just a trial-and-error thing? I'd like to have a go at making some myself, although not necessarily for StrategyWiki - they just look cool. --aniki21 08:31, 31 August 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks for the tips! I use GIMP2.2 myself. =) Can't say I knew that half the tools you mentioned existed before I followed your example, but thanks for the tutorial! --aniki21 09:56, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

Congratulations on making sysop
Congratulations on becoming a sysop, Procyon. I'm sure you'll continue to contribute lots of useful stuff. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 01:05, 6 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Thank you very much DrBob ^_^ Procyon 01:21, 6 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Is there any way I can contact you outside of StrategyWiki? MSN, e-mail, etc.? I have some questions&hellip; --DrBob (Talk) 10:49, 6 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Absolutely. If you use AIM or Yahoo IM, I am procyoncoon on both of them.  Email is plotor@ix.netcom.com, but I check it infrequently (once a day at night mostly.)  Lemme know if you need more direct contact.  Procyon 10:59, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
 * P.S. if I don't answer you right away on the IMs, I'm probably at lunch, or just away from my desk, but I'll definitely get your message when I sit back down.
 * Thanks. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 11:43, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
 * P.P.S Also, I'm in the Eastern United States time zone (-5:00 GMT) and primarily online from 10am to 5pm, give or take an hour.

Samurai Shodown
What's the difference between Samurai Shodown and Samurai Shodown!? Should they be merged, or what? I looked, and Wikipedia has the latter redirecting to the former, which I've copied over here, but if I'm wrong I can revert the changes. --DrBob (Talk) 10:48, 7 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Short Answer: SS is the name of the arcade version, while SNK added a ! to the name of the Neo-Geo Pocket version (and is actually supposed to be a retelling of SS4). The best place to confirm a lot of this information is typically gamefaqs.com.  Check out the SS page versus the the SS! page.  Different games.  There's a longer answer, but it's not important, I'm mainly frustrated by the user who started that page and then proceeded to upload the wrong picture.
 * Likewise, SS2! is different from SS2.


 * OK. :-) Sorry for the mess. --DrBob (Talk) 12:19, 7 September 2006 (CDT)

Fighting moves
What did you eventually decide to do for this? From the message you left on MUD's talk page, it sounds like you're going to put them all in one place, but I wouldn't recommend this. I still think it would be best to have the moves for each game in that game's guide, and moves for common characters put in the first game they appeared, then included (i.e. ) in pages for other games. --DrBob (Talk) 14:03, 9 September 2006 (CDT)

It's not quite what you think. Ultimately, I would like to retain the organization of the initial project. If you think of numbers as the name of each game, and letters as the name of each character, then you'd have a series of pages, each related to one particular game, that would be arranged as: And then you'd have another series of pages, each related to one particular character, that would be arranged as: Of course every indented appearance of A, B, C, 1, 2, and 3 would be linked to the non-indented occurrance page. With respect to the rest of StrategyWiki, we maintain a home page for each individual game just as we do today, but then we provide a link to the page that contains all of the moves for that game.
 * 1
 * A's moves
 * B's moves
 * C's moves
 * 2
 * A's moves
 * B's moves
 * C's moves
 * 3
 * A's moves
 * B's moves
 * C's moves
 * A
 * moves from 1
 * moves from 2
 * moves from 3
 * B
 * moves from 1
 * moves from 2
 * moves from 3
 * C
 * moves from 1
 * moves from 2
 * moves from 3

So for example, the Street Fighter II page would stay. Then instead of linking to each individual fighter, we say: Please see the list of moves for Street Fighter II here For Ryu's moves, please see Ryu's page here and so on. Organizationally, this is the best way to provide an easy navigation for the user to pop back and forth between games and characters, while still providing a consistant layout between the format we currently use for individual games, and a consistant organization for the arrangement of move lists.

I know it may seem a bit unorthodox compared to what we have today, but I'm only proposing this for the sake of increasing the organization, not decreasing it. That's why the individual SF2 char. pages need to move.


 * OK, I put up some sample pages, mostly copy/pastes of what was already on wikiknowledge. Of course the whole point is that I want it to look much better, and that's where blendmaster's hard work will come in.  So now if you check out Move_Lists, Move_Lists/Capcom, or Street Fighter II, you'll understand everything that I meant. Procyon 16:29, 9 September 2006 (CDT)


 * OK. Good luck. :-) (Please stop using CamelCase! It's driving me mad!) --DrBob (Talk) 16:48, 9 September 2006 (CDT)


 * LOL! I'm sorry about the CamelCase, it's a TERRIBLE programmer habit.  Just be glad I don't do lower-case preceeded camelCase like I have to do with all of my coding assignments (e.g. longHitPoints, gameObjectPosition, etc.) then you'd really hate me ^_^  I will make a conscious effort not to do it anymore.  Thanks!  Procyon 16:51, 9 September 2006 (CDT)

Re: Preview your changes before you save
I'll make sure to limit the number of Saves I do in the future. However, I would like to point out that it's impossible to see the effect editing a template has on a page that uses that template in preview. That's one reason there's so many edits. Weird things happen when you use html and css in wikis so it's hard to get it right using Preview. That being said, I'll try to use it whenever I can.


 * "I would like to point out that it's impossible to see the effect editing a template has on a page that uses that template in preview": That's why many templates have self-references included in a section. :-) (Sorry for butting in.) --DrBob (Talk) 08:59, 10 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Now that I'm trying to create a complex template for the first time, I understand exactly what he's talking about, and it's very frustrating. You can make a change to the noinclude section all that you want, but until you commit the changes you made in your template to the database, you can't ever preview your alterations.  I might start using regular wikipedia as a sand box ^_^ Procyon 13:40, 12 September 2006 (CDT)

MAME
One example of a CamelCase page would be MAME/Guide/Special Keys. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 16:34, 11 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Oooooooooh... I thought CamelCase would be if I were to type SpecialKeys (one word) instead of Special Keys (two words). I actually assumed that Special Keys was correct because it was the title of a page, and of course because it was seperated by a space.  I guess I'll move the page.  Procyon 16:39, 11 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Blech... :P There's four of them... and that many links to correct in the TOC and navs... I'll save it for tonight. Procyon 16:41, 11 September 2006 (CDT)

tmoe99's talk page
Why did you revert my comments on sub-paging? --DrBob (Talk) 14:00, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * Very sorry about that. I was looking for the comment you made about templates that was ironically just above this one, but I thought it was on someone elses talk page.  In the process, I clicked Revert mistakingly believing it would should me the point at which you might have said something about templates to tmoe99.  Pure accident.  I fixed it and put it back.  I'm really frustrated with templates :(  Procyon 14:06, 12 September 2006 (CDT)


 * No matter: everyone makes mistakes. ;-) --DrBob (Talk) 14:57, 12 September 2006 (CDT)

Wiki Knowledge
Thanks for the welcome message. I am an Administrator on Wiki Knowledge and I thought that sometime within the next few days I might import over some of the articles that are relevant that I created over from it, namely my articles on Eggerland, Mega Man, Mega Man 2, Rockman & Forte: Challenger from the Future, and the now work-in-progress Mega Man Timeline.

If you want to see what these articles look like before I import them, take a look at:

http://www.wikiknowledge.net/wiki/Eggerland

http://www.wikiknowledge.net/wiki/Mega_Man

http://www.wikiknowledge.net/wiki/Mega_Man_2

http://www.wikiknowledge.net/wiki/Rockman_%26_Forte:_Challenger_from_the_Future

http://www.wikiknowledge.net/wiki/Mega_Man_Timeline

Yes, the games have a lot of information with them along with some strategy, but that's because I always want to include the story/backstory and detailed info along with each game. Additionally, I make sure that everything I write with each game is properly cited so that users/readers know that the information is correct.

--Brahman 23:29, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

Template:SvC_CFC_Char
Discussion on the template here, check it out. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 01:02, 28 September 2006 (CDT)
 * Nevermind, I didn't realize you had another section about templates, I fixed that though :D. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 02:02, 28 September 2006 (CDT)

WikiKnowledge
It seems like you mistakened me the the owner of WikiKnowledge, but im just a member of WikiKnowledge, im not the owner. Minun 07:55, 1 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Trust me, I'm aware of who the owner of WikiKnowledge is. You tend to remember the name of the people who ban you simply because they disagree with you.  Minun, I'm not sure what motivates you to be loyal to Gmcfoley, and I won't ask.  But based on everything that I've seen about him on Wikipedia, he seems to have a difficult time getting along with anyone who doesn't completely agree with him. He's one of those "it's either my way or nobody's way" type of people.  That's why he had to start WikiKnowledge, because he couldn't get along with people on Wikipedia.  You seem far less unreasonable, but I can't understand why you wish to be associated with him.  Anyway, good luck with your wiki, and if you'd ever like to contribute anything to StrategyWiki, your additions would be more than welcome.  Procyon 08:25, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Minun's Pokemon guides
You sly dog, you. :-P --DrBob (Talk) 13:21, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

RE: Thanks for the Pokemon guides!
I didn't create them, and I CERTAINLY didn't TransWiki them here. Someone GRABBED them from my Wiki using the Special:Export and Special:Import features in violation of the GNU Free Documentation License, and im reporting this to my host, because I DIDN'T CREATE THEM Minun 13:41, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
 * No need to shout, and it isn't a violation of the GFDL, so there is no basis (your edit history is intact). --Prod 13:43, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Actually Minun, I spoke to your host, and they were all in favor of the move. They suggested you move all of your video game related material to this site to minimize the server load on their local databases. Procyon 15:02, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Minun... Learn how to take a joke numbnuts...
 * Joke? It didn't look like a joke Minun 13:33, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * That's because you have absolutely no sense of humor. Procyon 13:39, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Well... if you want to make a joke on my wiki, do it on a discussion page or something where it won't be considered vandalism. My project is a serious wiki, not one of those wikis where you just put whatever you want in. Minun 13:41, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * alright, apology accepted. If your truly interested in wiki stuff, please consider contributing to my wiki at http://wikidream.elwiki.com (your decision), were (or if someone even gets interested) working on the Pokémon guide at http://wikidream.elwiki.com/WikiDream:Site_discussion#Pokémon_RSE_alkthrough but you can contribute to any part. If your not interested, I won't feel too bad, but I think you'll find it a good wiki Minun 13:54, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I wasn't intending on advertising. Im not promoting my wiki to make it big. Im jusr creating it because I enjoy it, and im not intending on creating the largest wiki in the world; im intending on creating different sections of knowledge Minun 14:28, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Thanks, I need a little help promoting it though, do you know a way I can help get people to join the wiki, if so, I would be glad to here it, cheers Minun 14:51, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

Mega Man
I finally got around to copying over my work on Mega Man 1 and Mega Man 2, as well as Rockman & Forte: Challenger from the Future. The pain in the ass came in when I had to find all the images and copy them over as well, but now it's all good. I even put the Game Info box in that you all like, so hopefully you guys will enjoy it.

Any game-related articles that I write on WikiKnowledge I will most likely copy on over to here so that people can benefit from my contributions.

Also, I noted that the Mega Man 1 and Mega Man 2 pages are now marked for clean-up, but this is most likely because a lot of it isn't sub-paged. Oh well, that's mostly because I didn't sub-page it when I designed it in WikiKnowledge, but if you guys really have an issue with it's current layout, I suppose you can subpage the information. Still, hopefully you'll appreciate all the cool information that I put on it (such as the information provided by the Rockman Perfect Memories sourcebook).

Enjoy! --Brahman 02:12, 2 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Thanks so much Brahman! You did an awesome job.  It's true, the articles could use some sub-paging, but that should be easy to take care of.  By the way, I love that sourcebook, I have a copy at home as well.  I dunno if you are aware, but I'm one of the earliest FAQ writers for the Mega Man series. Some of my content is still on gamefaqs.  A small amount of the stuff I wrote got used by Capcom in the Mega Man 7 anniversary booklet without any credit to me (primarily what features premiere in each version.  That FAQ was published before MM7 came out.)  So, I'm a hard core original Mega Man lover at heart.  Great to have you on board!  Procyon 13:39, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Will you be adding those FAQs here? GarrettTalk 17:36, 4 October 2006 (CDT)


 * No, I wasn't planning on doing that per se. If you look at how I wrote them, they're not sufficient for StrategyWiki.  I wrote them back in like 1994 or something, when FAQs didn't look they way they do today.  If anything, I'd write something from scratch, but I'd rather just contribute to someone else's Mega Man project as I'm spinning pleanty of plates at the moment. Procyon 20:09, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Move lists category
Why did you put all the sub-pages of Move Lists in the category of the same name? Isn't it a bit redundant? --DrBob (Talk) 15:43, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, I couldn't think of a better way to provide a comprehensive way to present all of the available pages to a reader other than using the category. I'm open to suggestions.  The main reason I did the work that I did today was to break all of the subpages out of the M category that they were all stuck under.  At least now if someone wanted to look at, say, Raiden, they didn't have to look all the way at the end where he was, and their eye could jump to the big R so they could find him more easily.  Believe me, I would like to find a better way to present that whole mess.  Like, if you go to the Move Lists/Capcom page, that's more of what I had in mind.  The irony is that the Capcom page has no move lists on it :/ Procyon 16:45, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Overcategoryization
Not exactly a part of the main convo, so I'm asking here. What exactly is overcategorization? -- Prod 09:20, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Simply providing too many categories for pages to fall under. Every new category that you create is another category that an author has to remember to potentially include their game under.  Inevitably, someone will forget to use a particular category, and then another user will potentially search for a game under this forgetten category and not see the game and assume the page doesn't exist.  Now your response may be, "That's OK, if someone forgets to use a particular category, we'll come in afterwards and add it ourselves," but think about all of the work you've just added to people like DrBob.  Where as, if we bolster and support the use of the categories that we have now, there's no way a user should not be able to find a page if it truly exists on this site.  I'm all for categorization, but I guess I'm a minimalist.  I'd rather see the bare minimum categories be used consistantly then try to create every conceivable category and see them used sporadically. Procyon 09:29, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


 * His point of adding it to the infobox kind of makes the problem with it pointless. We continue doing what we're doing, which is having an infobox on every guide main page, and the advantages just become slightly more.  Same effort, slightly more benefit (even if it's just POSSIBLY more benefit), why not? -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 21:52, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Please compare...

 * StrategyWiki's version: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Pokémon_Ruby_and_Sapphire/Route_101
 * My version: http://wikidream.elwiki.com/Pok%C3%A9mon_RSE_Walkthrough:_Route_101

I am just chcking to see if my doing a good job Minun 14:20, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * please respond Minun 14:41, 10 October 2006 (CDT)


 * Minun, I don't know what you expect me to tell you. I would be happy to tell you what I think about your contributions to this site, but I do not intend to be an evaluator of other people's wiki sites.  Yes, your site is well done, but do not count on me to provide constructive critism of the contents of your site.  I'm far too busy with my work in real life and my contributions to this site.  I'm not trying to be mean to you, I'm just being honest with you.  Good luck.  Procyon 14:43, 10 October 2006 (CDT)


 * And you gotta give him more then 21 minutes before you ask for him to respond. He isn't here ALL the time ;). -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 19:00, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

Re: Inaccurate revisions
Garrett, I'll start out by admitting that I am being extremely sensitive about this subject, but a lot of the revisions that you've been doing appear to me as being a blanket action taken without thought or consideration. The Pinball nav thing, I can understand, but the Samurai Shodown/Samurai Shodown! redirect is inexcusable. If you had just taken a few moments to look at the infoboxes or the categories, you would have seen that they are distinct games. Furthermore, if you had looked at the history, DrBob made the same mistake previously, and I made that very correction once before. Please do some research before taking a similar course of action next time. Thank you. Procyon 16:04, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Hm. Well yes it was sort of a blanket action. I'd been using the completion categories to keep track of how many guides we had (the total was approaching 250, a nice round number worth celebrating), but Category:Games showed me that there were many more than that! Therefore I went to work adding nums as close as I could guess. In the case of Samurai Shodown I checked Wikipedia--"!" redirected to the main article, so I decided it was an alternate title (like Mega Man vs. Megaman) for yet another port. Some ports are done years later, so the date didn't clue me in either. GarrettTalk 19:40, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

Re: Street Fighter II Nav
Oh and I was meaning to ask you about the Street Fighter versions. I used Street Fighter II as the nav of its variants so that they could share the TOC and walkthrough of whatever info isn't in the move lists. Is this the best way to handle them? GarrettTalk 19:40, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Oh wow, that's actually an excellent consideration that I hadn't thought of. Unfortunately though, now that I've switched to using the Fighting Game Nav and the Move List Nav, I would regret losing that functionality that links the two pages together.  Alternatively, though I am loathe to borrow anything from WikiKnowledge, perhaps we could adopt their Street Fighter II navigation system.  Look at the bottom of this page to see what I mean.  As another alternative, we are making use of the Street Fighter category.  Procyon 19:44, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, another way would be to add a parent= variable to control the other links. That way the advantages of both types of template would remain, and the two fighting templates could be merged into one. Even better, the dropdown could also hide a series nav like WikiKnowledge's. GarrettTalk 20:07, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I'm cool with that Garrett, if you would like to oversee the change. I like the idea of merging them, I just couldn't figure out how to do it and keep the functionality. Now I realize that the variable "movelist" is only used in the Fighting Game Nav template, so obviously it can serve as the conditional between being a Fighting Game Nav and a Move Lists Nav. I'll leave it to you to make the changes to the templates, and then I'll follow behind and fix up the affected pages. (Man, I gotta clean up this page...) Procyon 20:09, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I can do that when I have the time. You can add the template any time, however; just call the merged template whatever you want and insert it like . Assuming you want gameplay-related links hidden when viewing the movelists, leave off the movelist= variable when adding the nav to cover/walkthrough pages. This way me writing the template doesn't hold you back from adding it. You could also decide what links you want the gameplay pages to show (Stages, Characters, etc.). GarrettTalk 20:48, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

Hi Garrett. I've gone ahead and merged the functionality of those two templates, so only Template:Fighting Game Nav remains. So any change that you would like to make only needs to be made on that template. While I understand what you mean by parent, I don't exactly understand how you intend to use it, so for the time being, I have not added it to any page. When you are ready, I would be happy to add the variable at that time so just let me know. Thanks. Procyon 21:29, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Well, will the walkthrough info fit on a single page nicely? If walkthroughs are likely to use subpages it would make sense for the nav to have links to common page names (such as Stages). The idea behind Parent was that variants like Street Fighter II Turbo and Super Street Fighter II could link to shared info pages (e.g. Street Fighter II/Stages), rather than each having their own stage descriptions. Like the current template, the links would default to the game= name if no parent was defined, and would be hidden if movelist was undefined. GarrettTalk 22:24, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * OK, it's late for me, so that's probably why I'm confused. I understand that you would like to establish a relationship between the original game Street Fighter II, and it's many derivatives like Champion Edition, Turbo, Super, and Super Turbo.  But if you look at the different home conversions that each one has spawned, they really are distinct titles in and of themselves.  So while I agree that there is a clear relationship between SF2 and all of the other titles, treating the different versions as "stages" of the parent doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Not the way that, say, Dinosaur Island is a stage of Super Mario World.  You know?  I thought you wanted to use the "parent" variable to show all of the titles in a series (like SFA1, 2, and 3).  If there's a way to do that, I'm all for it.  Procyon 23:03, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * I've kinda skimmed this conversation (TLDR sorry), and I quickly visited the guides. Is there a reason why all the SF2/SSF2 games can't be put on the same page with a subpage going in-depth into their differences.  From what I can tell, all the guides are the same (except for the special moves in the the last one). -- Prod 23:44, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

Name
As in the star, the raccoon genus, or the release group? -- Prod 23:51, 10 October 2006 (CDT)