StrategyWiki:Staff lounge/2012/July

PAL region release dates
I want to create pal, but DrBob deleted the template the last time I created it. He referenced this post: http://forums.strategywiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=26115 which no longer exists, and I couldn't find one at ABXY. Why can't we have a pal template? We need it for games like Agatha Christie: Evil Under the Sun. -- 15:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't find that topic either, but I did find this one. Like I said there, PAL is Europe and Australasia, which have their own templates, and, nine times out of ten, have different release dates. So, a separate PAL template doesn't make sense to me. -- 17:30, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * PAL is huge; it includes more than half of the countries of the world (Europe, Middle East, Asia, part of South America, part of Africa, Greenland, South East Asia, and Australia). Yes, these countries/areas often have their own release dates, but in some cases there are official PAL releases. I don't mind if our policy is to add 10 rd templates to a page instead of PAL, but we need a decision. My vote is for a simplified template unless there are specific release dates. In some cases, we might add PAL and find out later the individual dates, in which case we can change the page. -- 17:50, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * How often do we even know specific dates for Africa or Greenland, anyway? I think in most cases we can get away with just listing Europe and Australia and only listing other countries (with their specific templates) when necessary. Wanderer (talk) 22:49, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Wanderer, NMH. An EU release date is pretty much synonymous with a PAL release date, and how I've always worked.  What icon would you use for PAL, and how can you guarantee that everyone understands what is meant by a general PAL release date?  I'd rather keep the release dates on a system/region level, and not delve into the issue of TV standards.  Then you open pandora's box for listing 480p, 1080i, 720p, 1080p, etc. as well.  Not that I would object to that, but I think it should be kept separate from release dates.   Pro  cyon  22:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The TV standards isn't the issue. It's really about the release date region. I was under the impression, due to repeatedly running into PAL rd's on Wikipedia, that this was a legitimate thing. But then when I go to investigate further I only find proof of, say, an EU rd. The latest instance of this was with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agatha_Christie:_Evil_Under_the_Sun and then running into a more specific entry related to JoWooD Entertainment (see http://strategywiki.org/w/index.php?title=Agatha_Christie%3A_Evil_Under_the_Sun&diff=620313&oldid=620311 ). Unfortunately, I don't know how to prove that it is November 16 rather than 23, as found on GameFAQs. -- 03:23, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Dragon Warrior 3 enemies and control selector linking
Another big issue: Dragon Warrior III/Enemies. This page is huge and uses control selector to combine three pages in one. To upgrade the walkthrough of the game, we need to link to the enemies whenever there is a reference. However, we cannot currently link to enemies of the other versions (I created the IDs for the names, so a proper link will put the reader down to the right monster, but the control selector will not change from NES so GBC/SNES users end up having to scroll back up to change it, and then back down to find the enemy again).

The question is: is there a way to set the control selector opt value when linking? If not, is there a way to add it? If not, then do you agree that the best solution is another overhaul of the enemies page where we combine all three versions into the tables and remove control selector from the page? Is walkthrough linking to enemies useful/necessary/wanted? I want this guide to be featured. -- 17:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * As was mentioned from the get go, the control selector isn't meant to be used for lots of tabular information the way you did. You can see on enemies pages in other guides that individual sections for enemies with alphabetTOC at the top works just fine and avoids these problems. So yes, I would say it needs an overhaul. — Najzere  ·  Talk  18:44, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It was fun while it lasted. -- 19:47, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Bug list
Feel free to add anything you spot to the list.


 * 1) Classes for tag need to be updated for the "small" functionality that used to have a mouseover box on the right in BlueCloud. This actually still works in Monobook. I don't know if we just want to get rid of this functionality all together, or make it work in all skins. (Dolphin, Vector, Monobook).
 * 2) *Here's a new tag template based on the look of Wikipedia's cleanup tags: User:Najzere/Tag. This goes away completely from the "hidden", expandable box that used to go off to the side. It's pretty simple, just puts a normal box at the top like stub does, or a smaller one for sections. Here are examples: test cases. Each header box template would set its own colors/icons or use a standard one and we could make a multiple issues style template to combine them. The header_box class could be updated with the new styles and developer_header_box could be removed completely. — Najzere  ·  Talk  16:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) * And here is the multiple issues template, also added to the test cases. — Najzere  ·  Talk  18:02, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) **I like this. Would the currently invisible templates (needinfobox, needcat, etc.) be merged into this? -- Garrett (talk) 03:36, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) ***I'd still like to bring back the "tagging" feature. They could probably be added something like a toolbox on the side.  Perhaps a "tagbox" or something. -- Prod (Talk) 04:21, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) ***Yes, it's set up to include needinfobox and needcat, but we don't need to include any that we want to be category-only, with no messaging. Also I left some out that I thought should always be their own separate banner, like delete and future. — Najzere  ·  Talk  17:03, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) subtoc doesn't seem to center when transcluded. See Super Mario 64/Walkthrough, expand TOC, see header "Super Mario 64 DS" aligned left, see Super Mario 64/Table of Contents where header is centered. -- 16:29, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) *They're both centered in my browser. — Najzere  ·  Talk  17:00, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 9) **Uncentered in the ToC in Google Chrome, Monobook. Uncentered in FireFox 13.0.1 in Dolphin. Hmmm... -- 18:03, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 10) ***Seems to be caused by the rule, which is part of MediaWiki:Common.css. Not sure what other effects removing/editing that rule will have however. -- 08:06, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 11) ****Should be fixed, please confirm. -- Prod (talk) 02:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 12) Extension ConfirmEdit is giving trouble again.  The wikimedia update for 1.19 doesn't work with Asirra.  --76.10.168.59 03:57, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Done

 * 1) First off, if BlueCloud is completely killed, can everyone's preferences be updated to Dolphin automatically?
 * 2) * Done. -- Prod (Talk) 05:05, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) **Awesome thanks. — Najzere  ·  Talk  05:36, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) featured needs to use a class instead of inline styles to properly place the star in different skins. (Dolphin, Vector, Monobook).
 * 5) * Looks like the class was already ready, I just did some tweaking to the css rules. -- Prod (Talk) 19:58, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) Restore functionality of sortable for custom skins.
 * 7) * If anyone is having problems with this, try disabling abxy scripts, which worked for me. Likewise a fix on the abxy side may be needed.
 * 8) ** Removed the abxy script includes, so it should be working now, with new arrows too! -- Prod (Talk) 06:01, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 9) We need a new graphic for the top left corner in Vector and Monobook. It's clickable to get to the main page, but shouldn't be empty.
 * 10) * Same old image, but at least it isn't blank. Not the highest priority to make a new image, but it'll get updated at the same time we update any other images. -- Prod (Talk) 06:01, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 11) The   class needs to be eliminated, and I think Prod has already started that by deprecating sidebartoc.
 * 12) * All uses have been removed and the template deleted. -- Garrett (talk) 03:36, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
They just released 1.19, and I'm going to be updating to that soon (next week if no new extensions break), so expect new bugs to crop up then. -- Prod (Talk) 05:05, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool. Have you seen the new diff engine they rolled out on Wikipedia as part of the 1.20wmf1 upgrade? Most people hate it, but I think it's pretty cool and would be perfect with a little palette enhancement. — Najzere  ·  Talk  05:36, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I still haven't accepted the fact that they managed to release 1.19 on time... -- Prod (Talk) 05:59, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Can we just use the Facebook logo for Monobook? -- 20:52, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's the right size, but it's also from the old logo, so an updated one would be good (to replace the FB one too). — Najzere  ·  Talk  00:22, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Spoiler image script
I'm proposing an addition to the site wide javascript for spoiler image functionality. It replaces images with a spoiler placeholder image and reveals the hidden image on mouseover. Usage would be something like  . To see it in action, add importScript('User:Najzere/spoilerimage.js'); to your common JS or skin-specific JS and visit my sandbox for an example. The example just swaps two images, but obviously the "top" image would be the spoiler placeholder. If javascript is disabled by the user, then the normal image would appear without the spoiler placeholder. — Najzere  ·  Talk  21:03, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Do we support users without javascript enabled? I mean, who doesn't have js enabled while browsing? My real concern is with using mismatched file sizes. Can you script the spoiler image to resize according to the size of the image it is covering up? -- 22:45, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * We support them in the sense that we try not to do things that will entirely fuck them if they don't have javascript enabled, but if you take something like spoiler for example, you can see that there is precedence for making content entirely inaccessible without js enabled. This particular script won't do that, you'll get the normal image if you don't have javascript on. But really in this day and age you would be hard-pressed to find any site that doesn't use some javascript, it's really not worth worrying about anymore.
 * The spoiler image will be sized to whatever the original is set at, or its natural size if nothing is set. Only the source of the image is changed. For the spoiler image, the easiest way from a coding perspective would probably be to just use a .png image with a single color that will look the same at any dimensions. The spoiler image template would add text somewhere (like above or below) with instructions to mouseover to reveal the image. There are other methods if you wanted the placeholder image itself to say "mouse over me", but there would always be either scaling issues, funky image size changing issues or unnecessary complexity. — Najzere  ·  Talk  00:08, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There's no way to pass the image size as a parameter of the script? Or, would it be possible to put an image on top of the spoiler image? Like, have a "SPOILER" text image centered on top of the, say, red spoiler block image that would scale? -- 16:14, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * SVGs seemed to scale all right as far as not getting pixelated at larger sizes, but you'll always have problems with odd stretching if you try to use one image considering you can have very wide and short dimensions or very tall and thin dimensions. I updated the script to use another method, which repeats a small background image and hides the original image. This works with any size or dimension after 50×12 (the size of the background image). You can see different image shapes at the example section. — Najzere  ·  Talk  17:22, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, I updated the script to center "SPOILER" over the image cover and it reveals the image when you mouseover. — Najzere  ·  Talk  23:32, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It should also say "(mouse over)" so people know it's not just an image. -- 02:08, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * This is pretty sweet :). Though I'd prefer if we changed the colour and figured out a more descriptive caption.  Perhaps a default that can be changed through a parameter for really small images (is that possible)? -- Prod (talk) 12:26, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You can consider the stuff I used to be placeholders, I just wanted to demonstrate how it would work, not that we should use a hideous yellow background. For the "caption", yes we could switch out where it says "spoiler" for other stuff based on the template parameters. However, I think how it works is self-evident and everyone's first reaction to it would be to try and click it to see what it does. One change I was considering was to leave the image unhidden after mouseout, so you don't have to keep mousing over it if you want to see it again. That way it will be only be hidden every time you load the page before the first mouseover. — Najzere  ·  Talk  21:26, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I like that setting. We'll have to make the placeholder text clear. Black background with white text is better? Or making it fit better with Dolphin? -- 21:02, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Adding new pages
How do I add a new page to an existing guide? I searched, but wasn't able to find anything. If there is something on this, please show me the way. --Pokelover11 (talk) 19:31, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * First, edit the guide's table of contents to add a link to the new page. The link will be red at first to indicate that the page isn't there yet. Then you just click that new link and it'll let you create the page. Wanderer (talk) 22:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Series templates for 2 game series - yea or nay?
See this diff. -- 15:22, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * My take on it is that series navs aren't necessary at all, but generally useful for our readers' navigation. The length of the series doesn't matter: our standard is to have preceded/followed by links in the infobox and a series nav at the bottom if possible. -- 15:29, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally I think it takes more than two games to make a series and the templates look silly with just two links in them. If there's actually a game series, there should be a link to its category page in the infobox. I think series nav templates really shine when there are a lot of entries but are otherwise mostly unnecessary. — Najzere  ·  Talk  15:54, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't really think we need a series template until there are 3 titles minimum. Then the nav would be giving a link to the missing member somehow for the games not in the middle. Though I do like how much the series navs stand out without some added usefulness to a 2 game series it is repetitive. Links in the initial page description and infobox are enough. --Zaiqukaj (talk) 18:39, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Multiple Upload page minor issues
Useful page, and it does what it needs to. However, two points that seem odd. First, when you've uploaded files, the resulting page's second heading is "& lt;successfulupload& gt;", except without the spaces (I can't figure out how to even get this text to display what the heading is displaying without the spaces...).

Second, it gives upload warnings if you left any spots blank. It seems if you are not able to choose the number of files, it at least shouldn't complain when you're not filling every spot :P -- Ceegers (talk) 02:30, 28 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Ceegers. Believe me, we're aware of the issues with that page.  It was written by someone for Wikipedia, and considering how old it is, and how many revisions of MediaWiki have passed since it was created, we're lucky that it even still works at all.  While I'd like to see those issues fixed, the danger of breaking it entirely outweighs the benefit we'd see from fixing the minor hiccups.  There was a time when we lost it, and I didn't think we'd ever get it back.  After a period like that, you shrug at the minor cosmetic issues because you're so grateful that it just works.   Pro  cyon  03:24, 28 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It's a weird page. I've never used it (I always make/upload images while write guides one image at a time) since it only works well for images that can have the same description (e.g. monster images, icons, artwork, etc.). -- 18:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It seems MultiUpload version 2.1 was released a week or so ago which purportedly fixes some issues with version 1.19 of MediaWiki, currently working with Prod on getting that update on beta and tested/pushed to live if it works properly. -- 19:19, 29 July 2012 (UTC)