StrategyWiki:Staff lounge

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Welcome to all users! This page is where people can ask StrategyWiki-related questions to the staff and senior community figures, and they will do their best to answer. If you want to raise a topic for discussion (rather than just ask about it), please use community issues instead. New issues are entered here, with the most recent at the bottom of the page. Please review the Table of Contents to see if your issue has already been raised; also check the archives (to the right) in case it was discussed some time ago.

To facilitate ease of browsing and replying, please:
 * 1) Place your question at the bottom of the list
 * 2) Title the question (by placing the title between equals signs: ==title==)
 * 3) Sign your name and date (by adding two hyphens and four tildes: --~ )

For regular members only: Wikipedia article draft
Hi everyone. Echelon asked me to help write a draft of an article that would be contributed to Wikipedia about StrategyWiki. Aside from the history (how the site began, which I'm not especially knowledgeable about), I have drafted two of the sections, the Mission and the Milestones. I think what I've done is very rough and in need of much improvement, but it should serve as a good foundation. It would mean a lot to this site if all of the regulars took a stab at molding and shaping it until we have an article worthy of depositing on Wikipedia. Have a go at it here: Wikipedia_Article. Thank you! Procyon 21:57, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * The problem is notability. Unless outside sources have noted StrategyWiki, well then it is not supposed to exist on Wikipedia. --Notmyhandle 01:32, 3 February 2007 (CST)
 * It needs to be notable so that it can be verifiable. I wouldn't bother putting an article about this site on there unless it has at least three outside sources (not here, or blogs, but gaming sites might due).  Or perhaps one major news story (like a cnn/nbc kind of thing).  As far as I know we've gotten some attention for challenging gamefaqs, but that isn't notability in itself. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 08:29, 3 February 2007 (CST)
 * What do you guys think of these sources? I am hesitant to say that they alone are enough, but I do think that they would serve well in our defense should our notability be challenged. If we need more sources, perhaps we can simply look into help--I know of a reporter at Wired, for instance.  ech elon  23:57, 3 February 2007 (CST)
 * I believe the key here is to get increasingly notable press for our project. I would like to start seeing GameFAQs regulars switching over to StrategyWiki; a Wikipedia article would only serve as an additional claim to our relevance, and though such would not be the ultimate measure of our project's worth I do believe it can and will serve as a talking point in converting GameFAQs contributors into StrategyWiki contributors. It is ultimately these people of whom we must garner the respect and support of. Random articles and Diggs may help us get more traffic, but they alone will not likely net us the hardcore contributors.  ech elon  00:07, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * Maybe it's time we got slashdotted. Oh, and a better server while we're at it. GarrettTalk 01:34, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think the Kotaku, MIT Convergence Culture Consortium, Joystiq, and perhaps lifehacker are all good don't bother with digg or delicious obviously.  It'll be a tough call to be sure on notability.  The only thing that could cause us problems is if we don't directly follow policy.  We can't attempt to game the system and using sockpuppets will sadly put our site in a more negative light.  I think we should start the article and use those three (perhaps four) articles as sources.  Ensure that all the information is sourced and meaningful to people outside of just this small group here.  -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 18:45, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * I doubt the article will have much length, but why not give it a try. Even if it gets deleted eventually we can bring it back. --Notmyhandle 20:18, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * Just to note, we do get classed in the top 100k websites according to Alexa, though thats only on Sundays... it'll take a little while before our 3 month avg is above 100k. -- Prod (Talk) 22:34, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * I added our site to the list of sites using MediaWiki, which could count as a reliable source (sort of) because all links on that page are checked for the fact that they A:exist and B:do use MediaWiki. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:41, 7 February 2007 (CST)

Request to change wikia interwiki url
Currently, interwiki links of the form  $1  gets parsed as  http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Index.php/$1 . I would like to request it being changed to  http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1  so that it will work with wikia's own redirect feature. Thank you. -Afker 04:01, 26 February 2007 (CST)


 * Bump. Pretty please? -Afker 01:49, 6 March 2007 (CST)
 * I wonder why this was overlooked, Ech is definitely someone to ask (as you did). --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 18:53, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

Achievement Campaign
Like them or loath them achievements have really taken the 360 by storm. Many people are now constantly trying to up their gamerscore. But lately I've seen very few guides with achievement lists. I think that alot of visitors to this site will come primarily for a list of the achievement for a game they have. Games that have alot of "Secret Achievements" will be requested even more so.

So I've decided to organise a little campaign to get achievement lists onto StrategyWiki. Especially on games like Viva Pinata, Final Fantasy XI and Lost Planet where the achievements don't all tie in with the main quest.

But I posted this up here to try and get one or two people too help me. But I also would like some advice on how these lists should be formatted. Like whether they should be in a table or just in a list, and whether there should be explanations. Post below if you're interested, you don't need to own alot of games but I think owning a 360 would help because then you should alot more about achievements. Thanks. Poiuytre 09:51, 15 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Great idea, I don't have a 360 but you could put it as a collaboration here and it then might get on the main page as the collaboration of the month.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:15, 15 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I agree with Rocky. I also don't have a 360, but this would make a terrific collaboration concept, that I would fully support.  Most of the classic arcade games that I have covered have achievement lists.  I'll try to mock one up for Pac-Man if I find some time.  (edit: I like the format that they use on this website.) Procyon (Talk) 10:24, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
 * For the overall achievements list a table will be the best way. For achievements earned during a specific quest or mission or whatever use Achievement beside the appropriate text (see Call of Duty 2/The Winter War for an example). GarrettTalk 15:41, 15 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Great idea; don't have a 360 but I love playing Geometry Wars at my buddies' place. I'll help where possible.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:15, 15 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Update: I've managed to complete the achievement section for Call of Duty 2. See here: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty_2/Achievements I think it looks good and if everyone can use that template for their achievement section in their guide then it'll look more consistent and neater throughout the site. One thing I would like for their to be added is an image category added for achievement pictures as I had no idea where to put them once uploaded. Something like Category:Achievements . Thanks Poiuytre 14:39, 21 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Has this been created yet????? Nobody has replied. Poiuytre 08:15, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Add an entry here and people can vote on it. -- Prod (Talk) 08:24, 28 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I´m ready to change all pictures to a Category:Achievements, if somebody creates that category. Foppe 11:55, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Done--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:27, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

Games with their own Wikis
I was wondering if it might be a good idea to encourage those contributors who want to make a page about a game which has a dedicated Wiki of a significant size to contribute there rather than here. For example, ParagonWiki is an excellent Wiki for City of Heroes/Villains and WoWWiki is a large World of Warcraft Wiki. The main reason I suggest this is to A: prevent duplication of effort and B: those sites will be likely to get more thorough error checking. What do you think? MichaelAB 23:17, 22 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The thing is, one day we could just have that all here. If you look at both wikis, they are under GFDL; thus we are legally able to copy all of their content anyways, so why not have it here as well?  We do need the traffic, and if we had the contributors come here instead they might help with other stuff beyond just City of Heroes/Villains.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 02:09, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

Database error
I got this error while searching, is there a problem:

Database error

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "". MySQL returned error "1194: Table 'stratw_searchindex' is marked as crashed and should be repaired (localhost)".

--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:43, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Must've been a temporary glitch. I tried a few searches and everything worked smoothly.  ech elon  17:49, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

How do you make this symbol?
How do you make the "e" in Pokemon? The Pokemon pages won't link correctly if you don't have the letter. Sincerely, Myth 18:44, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Personally, I use Alt+130, but Alt+0489 works, and if you have an international keyboard (the one with Alt Gr), using that and e should work as well. Alternatively, just copy é and paste it whenever you need it. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:10, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure Myth will understand the method you first spoke of. It's the same method that I use.  You press and hold the Alt button, and then on the number pad (and not on the numbers above the letters), enter 1, 3, and 0.  Then release the Alt key.  Procyon (Talk) 22:18, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Below the edit box (scroll down a bit), there's a whole bunch of funny symbols that come in handy (along with a few useful codes and templates). -- Prod (Talk) 21:12, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Does anyone mind if I put ♀ and ♂ in those symbols, it'd be helpful for nidoran.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:07, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Go right ahead, it would be useful for other things too. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 09:39, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Done, just to note, the toolbar is here--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:06, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the tip, Ryan. But I think my computer is different, because when I hit Alt+130, I got this. Yeah, nothing. I don't get it, but I found a great way to get any symbol you want quickly. To see that go to number 37 on the table of contents. Sincerely, Myth 11:28, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

Archiving?
How do you archive your talk page? Mine is getting rather large and many of the things previously discussed are over a week old and have been resolved. Please tell me how you do it. Thanks. Myth 19:49, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * There are two ways to archive a page.
 * One way is to go into your history and click the date of the page revision you want to archive. Then copy the URL and put it into the archive template (on your current talk page, not the old one) via.
 * Another way is to go into that old revision, click "edit," and copy the wiki code. Then, create a new page like User_talk:Myth/1 or User_talk:Myth/Archive/1 and paste the code in there (and save). Afterwards, go into your current talk page and put.
 * Either of those two ways work (the "some text" should somehow describe the archive, like the date of the archive or what it goes through). If you want to add more, simply add another pipe between the ] and the }} and follow the same procedure. Hope that helped!--Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:10, 27 May 2007 (CDT)

An example of #1 can be found here. -- Prod (Talk) 21:11, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Or you can make a custom one like I did. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:28, 27 May 2007 (CDT)

MediaWiki Namespace
How come MediaWiki:editinginterface doesn't show up on pages in the MediaWiki namespace? It did a few months ago.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:12, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * No idea. Maybe the message was disabled or the software is trying to specify a nonexistant message instead of that one. It had it about a week ago when I was modifying MediaWiki:BlueCloud.css and MediaWiki:Common.css, but it's gone now. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 10:20, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * When we updated to the latest version of mediawiki, it deleted all the "message" pages which were still defaults. -- Prod (Talk) 10:22, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I know, but it should still appear despite that. Maybe if it was created it would work... Should I? --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 10:36, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * (conflict)But it was after the upgrade when I saw the message, I was only made a sysop last month and the upgrade happened in march, also is there a way to stop the Javascript prompt for a summary for redirects, there is an auto summary.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:45, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Somehow I have never recieved a summary javascript prompt; I use IE7, Spybot S&D and SpywareBlaster. Other than that I don't know why I'm immune.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 15:53, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I never got one in IE6 either, in FireFox you get a prompt when not having a category in your images (Annoying when re-uploading) and a red message about the summary when it has only a few characters, the code in a (slightly more) readable format is here, it's about halfway down and it says at the top something about firefox.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:12, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I use FireFox 2.0.0.3, and I don't get the stupid message telling me to put in a summary anymore. Categories on images is still a problem, though. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 16:35, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It still happens for me but only with redirects, try getting User talk:Rocky/test to redirect to my talk, for me, I get a red message when I click save.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:52, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Done and annoying-red-message free :P --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 17:00, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

(reset indent) Oh well, my computer's strange :P P.S I'm using FF 2.0.0.3 as well --Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 17:06, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

Pokémon Artwork
Can someone upload the artwork of Shaymin and Arceus, bulbapedia only has the sprites and I've got no idea where to get them?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:14, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Shaymin and Arceus don't yet have Sugimori artwork yet, only sprites are available for now. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 15:30, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

Illegal?
Is it considered illegal to copy images from a site and put them here? --Myth 12:04, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Only if those images are expressly copyrighted by the site that you are taking them from. In other words, if they are works of art created expressly for the purpose of a particular site.  Screenshots and sprites from games generally fall under fair use.  No site can rightfully claim ownership of another company's game's screenshots or artwork.  And as long as you're not using said screenshots or artwork to make money (which you're not), you have every right to use them.  How else do you think we ended up with so many screenshots and sprites on our site?  If it were illegal, someone would have shut us down (and wikipedia for that matter) a long time ago.  So as long as you're not taking something like, I dunno, the IGN logo because maybe IGN are your initials and you like the way the logo looks, or someone's creative property that they have expressly stated that no one has permission to reproduce the artwork (like someone's own fan art of a video game character), you're perfectly fine with taking other images from sites as long as you know they aren't the owners of that image.  One word of caution however, avoid images that are watermarked (i.e. they have a little transparent logo slaped over the image somewhere like the bottom right corner or something.) Procyon (Talk) 12:23, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry, while we're on the subject, is it illegal to use screenshots from the E3 movie (On the left of the linked page, I can't link to it)of Super smash bros brawl, at the bottom of the website's page it says it's illegal but can we claim screenshots under fair use.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:38, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * "in connection with any product or service that is not Nintendo's, in any manner that is likely to cause confusion among customers, in any manner that disparages or discredits Nintendo, or in any manner that is otherwise exploitative for any commercial purpose or that otherwise infringes Nintendo's intellectual property rights."
 * That's the important part. We clearly state we're for guides (no confusion), we promote Nintendo, we are non commercial, we are using it under fair use.  IANAL but I don't see any problems. -- Prod (Talk) 12:50, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Is there any way to actually undelete images, I heard wikipedia has a way but do we? I uploaded them then deleted them, I have the links, this is one, is there any way or do I need to take them again.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:53, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You're a sysop, didn't you see the Restore button on the page that you linked to? I just clicked Restore, and viola, it came back.  But then a noticed you reuploaded the image, so I'm not sure if what I did had any effect. Procyon (Talk) 13:16, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I realised that they were still in my recycle bin. Usually when you try to restore an image it will only restore the text, try undeleting this, for me, you would only get the text.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:19, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Just a little bit of pedantry, it's voila, not 'viola'. A Viola is a kind of instrument (that I happen to play) with a range below a violin and above a cello, and is also the name of a character in Shakespeare's play Twelfth Night.  Carry on ;-)  --Froglet 10:24, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually it's voilà not voila :P--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:24, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I know, I just don't know how to make those fancy characters on this keyboard. I wish I had my German keyboard with me.--Froglet 08:30, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Froggy, does your keyboard have an Alt Gr button, if it does then you can get a few useful characters by holding down that and pressing the letter, the é is very helpful for when you want to say Pokémon, sadly the á is the wrong way round so use the edit box below or hold normal alt then press 0224. Also, if you need a character added to the box then ask a sysop.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:29, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * á = Alt160, é = Alt130 --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:22, 12 June 2007 (CDT)

Help with formatting
This is all still a bit of a mystery to me. Are there any guides or keys on how to get formatting to work? Once I have figured out how to properly post and format I will begin to contribute what I can. I know I can start out by fleshing out the pages for Advance wars 1 & 2, Cooking Mama, and Digimon World 2. --Zaiqukaj 06:34, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I just left a welcome message for Zaiqukaj, which contains the link to the SW guide, but this may highlight the fact the guide on its own is not visible enough to new users. Granted, since we welcome every new user, this may not be a problem, but since Zaiqukaj asked for help before he edited, we was not able to locate the guide one his own.  Does it need better advertisement on the front page? Procyon (Talk) 06:57, 11 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I think so, yes... Maybe put it right in the welcome to StrategyWiki box?-- Duke  Ruckley  09:43, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The help button on the left links directly to the guide, I would think that would be obvious enough. Zaiqukaj, as a new user, perhaps you can tell us what pages you looked at/read before coming and asking here.  That way we can put links on those pages. -- Prod (Talk) 09:53, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree, i have huge trouble when I want help, maybe have a few redirects from typing help etc. in the search bar.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:51, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * We can also change here to pint to the guide.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:31, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, how about:

Welcome to, $1!

Your account has been created. Don't forget to change your Preferences. Also, check out StrategyWiki's Usage Guide to help you get on the right track.


 * SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 11:43, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Should have something big like, Need help?  Want to learn Wikimarkup?  Check out the StrategyWiki guide for everything you need.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:08, 11 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Thank you for the help everyone. I am going to do a little more browsing to get a better feel for data organization, the overall look of the guides, and common naming conventions for section titles. Since someone asked, here is my history of browsing yesterday before posting here. I first found this site by Googling for a walkthrough for Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Before posting here I randomly browsed through about 7 other guides and read the staff lounge page. I tend to get lost visually within a large amount of links. Perhaps if this confusion is a common problem you could fix it with an automated "getting started" my talk message as a reminder/notification of where to find the site's rules and helpful resourses for those who are starting out. Also, I somehow accidentally deleted this when I replyed. Sorry about that. It was an honest mistake. --Zaiqukaj 07:45, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It's fine. As for the message, that is what the welcome message is for (the one left on every new user's talk page, found at StrategyWiki welcome). Anyway, do you think we should implement a) My option for the new account creation, b) Notmyhandle's option for the new account creation, c) leave it the same, or d) come up with another one? --SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 11:25, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I would keep it the same. With all websites, it will take new users a variable amount of time to gather their bearings and learn how everything works. It could be flawless and I would still be a moron starting out. Skimming the archive of this area is pretty helpful. It answered a lot of questions before I could even wonder about them. --Zaiqukaj 04:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

partial content & screencapture question
I'm going to start seriously fleshing out and writing the Digimon World 2 strategy now. A few questions popped up so here they are: If I have partial information for a section should I post the partial information or is it best to wait and post once I have all of it? Also, at this point I have no ability to take screenshots or get images for things on my own. What is the standard way screenshots are taken? --Zaiqukaj 03:48, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Since it's a wiki, pages are constantly being revised. Even if what you've written is very incomplete it could still be of some value to others, and you might even find that other people find what you've written and then improve it (which they couldn't have done if you hadn't posted it). You can use stub or wip on the page to let others know it's not all there yet. As for screenshots, there are a variety of ways.
 * The first option is to use the PC version if one exists (which in this case it doesn't). Many games come with screenshot support, and even when they don't programs like Fraps can capture from them pretty smoothly.
 * Another option is to use an emulator (ePSXe, in the case of the PlayStation) which has built-in screen capturing of some sort. The downside here is that you can't transfer your save files to it without some sort of device, but on the plus side you can use emulator saves to save and load at any time and in any place (rather than only when and where the game itself allows it), which makes taking some shots a lot less frustrating.
 * Another way is to use a video capture card; this costs money and is a bit more fiddly, but it means you can still play on the real system.
 * If all else fails you can hunt for existing screenshots. Since screenshots are automatically the property of the game's copyright holder (rather than becoming the property of whoever takes the screenshots) any you find on the web are fine as long as they don't have watermarks (GameSpot and the like love putting their logo on everything they upload). The biggest problem is that certain shots might never have been taken before, especially if the game is less popular and/or has no PC version.
 * I've used a mixture of these for the guides I've worked on and it's worked quite well so far. GarrettTalk 05:38, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for the information. I had no idea they had emulators for the Playstation. The idea of a wiki is still a new concept to me. It sounds like a very efficient system for data gathering and colaborative work as long as people aren't jerks about it(needlessly deleting or making up things). I look forward to helping contribute. --Zaiqukaj 07:48, 13 June 2007 (CDT)