StrategyWiki:Staff lounge

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Welcome to all users! This page is where people can ask StrategyWiki-related questions to the staff and senior community figures, and they will do their best to answer. If you want to raise a topic for discussion (rather than just ask about it), please use community issues instead. New issues are entered here, with the most recent at the bottom of the page. Please review the Table of Contents to see if your issue has already been raised; also check the archives (to the right) in case it was discussed some time ago.

To facilitate ease of browsing and replying, please:
 * 1) Place your question at the bottom of the list
 * 2) Title the question (by placing the title between equals signs: ==title==)
 * 3) Sign your name and date (by adding two hyphens and four tildes: --~ )

For regular members only: Wikipedia article draft
Hi everyone. Echelon asked me to help write a draft of an article that would be contributed to Wikipedia about StrategyWiki. Aside from the history (how the site began, which I'm not especially knowledgeable about), I have drafted two of the sections, the Mission and the Milestones. I think what I've done is very rough and in need of much improvement, but it should serve as a good foundation. It would mean a lot to this site if all of the regulars took a stab at molding and shaping it until we have an article worthy of depositing on Wikipedia. Have a go at it here: Wikipedia_Article. Thank you! Procyon 21:57, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * The problem is notability. Unless outside sources have noted StrategyWiki, well then it is not supposed to exist on Wikipedia. --Notmyhandle 01:32, 3 February 2007 (CST)
 * It needs to be notable so that it can be verifiable. I wouldn't bother putting an article about this site on there unless it has at least three outside sources (not here, or blogs, but gaming sites might due).  Or perhaps one major news story (like a cnn/nbc kind of thing).  As far as I know we've gotten some attention for challenging gamefaqs, but that isn't notability in itself. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 08:29, 3 February 2007 (CST)
 * What do you guys think of these sources? I am hesitant to say that they alone are enough, but I do think that they would serve well in our defense should our notability be challenged. If we need more sources, perhaps we can simply look into help--I know of a reporter at Wired, for instance.  ech elon  23:57, 3 February 2007 (CST)
 * I believe the key here is to get increasingly notable press for our project. I would like to start seeing GameFAQs regulars switching over to StrategyWiki; a Wikipedia article would only serve as an additional claim to our relevance, and though such would not be the ultimate measure of our project's worth I do believe it can and will serve as a talking point in converting GameFAQs contributors into StrategyWiki contributors. It is ultimately these people of whom we must garner the respect and support of. Random articles and Diggs may help us get more traffic, but they alone will not likely net us the hardcore contributors.  ech elon  00:07, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * Maybe it's time we got slashdotted. Oh, and a better server while we're at it. GarrettTalk 01:34, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * I think the Kotaku, MIT Convergence Culture Consortium, Joystiq, and perhaps lifehacker are all good don't bother with digg or delicious obviously.  It'll be a tough call to be sure on notability.  The only thing that could cause us problems is if we don't directly follow policy.  We can't attempt to game the system and using sockpuppets will sadly put our site in a more negative light.  I think we should start the article and use those three (perhaps four) articles as sources.  Ensure that all the information is sourced and meaningful to people outside of just this small group here.  -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 18:45, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * I doubt the article will have much length, but why not give it a try. Even if it gets deleted eventually we can bring it back. --Notmyhandle 20:18, 4 February 2007 (CST)
 * Just to note, we do get classed in the top 100k websites according to Alexa, though thats only on Sundays... it'll take a little while before our 3 month avg is above 100k. -- Prod (Talk) 22:34, 4 February 2007 (CST)


 * I added our site to the list of sites using MediaWiki, which could count as a reliable source (sort of) because all links on that page are checked for the fact that they A:exist and B:do use MediaWiki. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:41, 7 February 2007 (CST)
 * Does anyone think we should add a screenshot of bluecloud and maybe Autumn leaf onto this page on mediawiki.org.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 08:57, 2 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Autumn leaf needs a better header image (it's pixelated), preferably one with clouds, before it can be a good mod. -- 12:58, 2 September 2007 (CDT)

Request to change wikia interwiki url
Currently, interwiki links of the form  $1  gets parsed as  http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Index.php/$1 . I would like to request it being changed to  http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1  so that it will work with wikia's own redirect feature. Thank you. -Afker 04:01, 26 February 2007 (CST)


 * Bump. Pretty please? -Afker 01:49, 6 March 2007 (CST)
 * I wonder why this was overlooked, Ech is definitely someone to ask (as you did). --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 18:53, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Prod. Fixed. :)  ech elon  22:25, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

Achievement Campaign
Like them or loath them achievements have really taken the 360 by storm. Many people are now constantly trying to up their gamerscore. But lately I've seen very few guides with achievement lists. I think that alot of visitors to this site will come primarily for a list of the achievement for a game they have. Games that have alot of "Secret Achievements" will be requested even more so.

So I've decided to organise a little campaign to get achievement lists onto StrategyWiki. Especially on games like Viva Pinata, Final Fantasy XI and Lost Planet where the achievements don't all tie in with the main quest.

But I posted this up here to try and get one or two people too help me. But I also would like some advice on how these lists should be formatted. Like whether they should be in a table or just in a list, and whether there should be explanations. Post below if you're interested, you don't need to own alot of games but I think owning a 360 would help because then you should alot more about achievements. Thanks. Poiuytre 09:51, 15 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Great idea, I don't have a 360 but you could put it as a collaboration here and it then might get on the main page as the collaboration of the month.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:15, 15 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I agree with Rocky. I also don't have a 360, but this would make a terrific collaboration concept, that I would fully support.  Most of the classic arcade games that I have covered have achievement lists.  I'll try to mock one up for Pac-Man if I find some time.  (edit: I like the format that they use on this website.) Procyon (Talk) 10:24, 15 May 2007 (CDT)
 * For the overall achievements list a table will be the best way. For achievements earned during a specific quest or mission or whatever use Achievement beside the appropriate text (see Call of Duty 2/The Winter War for an example). GarrettTalk 15:41, 15 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Great idea; don't have a 360 but I love playing Geometry Wars at my buddies' place. I'll help where possible.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:15, 15 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Update: I've managed to complete the achievement section for Call of Duty 2. See here: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty_2/Achievements I think it looks good and if everyone can use that template for their achievement section in their guide then it'll look more consistent and neater throughout the site. One thing I would like for their to be added is an image category added for achievement pictures as I had no idea where to put them once uploaded. Something like Category:Achievements . Thanks Poiuytre 14:39, 21 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Has this been created yet????? Nobody has replied. Poiuytre 08:15, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Add an entry here and people can vote on it. -- Prod (Talk) 08:24, 28 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I´m ready to change all pictures to a Category:Achievements, if somebody creates that category. Foppe 11:55, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Done--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:27, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

Games with their own Wikis
I was wondering if it might be a good idea to encourage those contributors who want to make a page about a game which has a dedicated Wiki of a significant size to contribute there rather than here. For example, ParagonWiki is an excellent Wiki for City of Heroes/Villains and WoWWiki is a large World of Warcraft Wiki. The main reason I suggest this is to A: prevent duplication of effort and B: those sites will be likely to get more thorough error checking. What do you think? MichaelAB 23:17, 22 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The thing is, one day we could just have that all here. If you look at both wikis, they are under GFDL; thus we are legally able to copy all of their content anyways, so why not have it here as well?  We do need the traffic, and if we had the contributors come here instead they might help with other stuff beyond just City of Heroes/Villains.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 02:09, 23 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Except, a lot of people will just decide not to use this wiki rather than bring their content here. If you share traffic with them by sending stuff their way, you can get the same in return, especially since many of them are hosted on Wikia as well. MichaelAB 19:09, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * We are trying to attract as many editors to our guides as possible, so we can be highly comprehensive. We are not going to encourage our editors to edit at other wikis, however, we can not stop them (and we wouldn't want to if that is their choice).  We also don't mind linking to them if they have a lot of info that is outside of our scope. Prime examples are bulbapedia and AliceSoft (which we have essentially outsourced the Sengoku Rance guide to). Our future hope is that we will host all the walkthroughs (so we make our own version of that rance walkthrough, but keep a link to their site), but anything too far beyond our scope stays with those websites (ie. bulbapedia). -- Prod (Talk) 19:24, 24 June 2007 (CDT)

Database error
I got this error while searching, is there a problem:

Database error

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "". MySQL returned error "1194: Table 'stratw_searchindex' is marked as crashed and should be repaired (localhost)".

--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:43, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Must've been a temporary glitch. I tried a few searches and everything worked smoothly.  ech elon  17:49, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

How do you make this symbol?
How do you make the "e" in Pokemon? The Pokemon pages won't link correctly if you don't have the letter. Sincerely, Myth 18:44, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Personally, I use Alt+130, but Alt+0489 works, and if you have an international keyboard (the one with Alt Gr), using that and e should work as well. Alternatively, just copy é and paste it whenever you need it. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:10, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I'm not sure Myth will understand the method you first spoke of. It's the same method that I use.  You press and hold the Alt button, and then on the number pad (and not on the numbers above the letters), enter 1, 3, and 0.  Then release the Alt key.  Procyon (Talk) 22:18, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Below the edit box (scroll down a bit), there's a whole bunch of funny symbols that come in handy (along with a few useful codes and templates). -- Prod (Talk) 21:12, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Does anyone mind if I put ♀ and ♂ in those symbols, it'd be helpful for nidoran.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:07, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Go right ahead, it would be useful for other things too. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 09:39, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Done, just to note, the toolbar is here--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:06, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the tip, Ryan. But I think my computer is different, because when I hit Alt+130, I got this. Yeah, nothing. I don't get it, but I found a great way to get any symbol you want quickly. To see that go to number 37 on the table of contents. Sincerely, Myth 11:28, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Myth, on my system, you have to use the keys on the number pad. That works when I hit alt + 130, but only on the num pad. MichaelAB 19:11, 24 June 2007 (CDT)

Archiving?
How do you archive your talk page? Mine is getting rather large and many of the things previously discussed are over a week old and have been resolved. Please tell me how you do it. Thanks. Myth 19:49, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * There are two ways to archive a page.
 * One way is to go into your history and click the date of the page revision you want to archive. Then copy the URL and put it into the archive template (on your current talk page, not the old one) via.
 * Another way is to go into that old revision, click "edit," and copy the wiki code. Then, create a new page like User_talk:Myth/1 or User_talk:Myth/Archive/1 and paste the code in there (and save). Afterwards, go into your current talk page and put.
 * Either of those two ways work (the "some text" should somehow describe the archive, like the date of the archive or what it goes through). If you want to add more, simply add another pipe between the ] and the }} and follow the same procedure. Hope that helped!--Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:10, 27 May 2007 (CDT)

An example of #1 can be found here. -- Prod (Talk) 21:11, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Or you can make a custom one like I did. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:28, 27 May 2007 (CDT)

MediaWiki Namespace
How come MediaWiki:editinginterface doesn't show up on pages in the MediaWiki namespace? It did a few months ago.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:12, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * No idea. Maybe the message was disabled or the software is trying to specify a nonexistant message instead of that one. It had it about a week ago when I was modifying MediaWiki:BlueCloud.css and MediaWiki:Common.css, but it's gone now. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 10:20, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * When we updated to the latest version of mediawiki, it deleted all the "message" pages which were still defaults. -- Prod (Talk) 10:22, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I know, but it should still appear despite that. Maybe if it was created it would work... Should I? --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 10:36, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * (conflict)But it was after the upgrade when I saw the message, I was only made a sysop last month and the upgrade happened in march, also is there a way to stop the Javascript prompt for a summary for redirects, there is an auto summary.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:45, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Somehow I have never recieved a summary javascript prompt; I use IE7, Spybot S&D and SpywareBlaster. Other than that I don't know why I'm immune.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 15:53, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I never got one in IE6 either, in FireFox you get a prompt when not having a category in your images (Annoying when re-uploading) and a red message about the summary when it has only a few characters, the code in a (slightly more) readable format is here, it's about halfway down and it says at the top something about firefox.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:12, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I use FireFox 2.0.0.3, and I don't get the stupid message telling me to put in a summary anymore. Categories on images is still a problem, though. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 16:35, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It still happens for me but only with redirects, try getting User talk:Rocky/test to redirect to my talk, for me, I get a red message when I click save.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:52, 28 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Done and annoying-red-message free :P --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 17:00, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

(reset indent) Oh well, my computer's strange :P P.S I'm using FF 2.0.0.3 as well --Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 17:06, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

Pokémon Artwork
Can someone upload the artwork of Shaymin and Arceus, bulbapedia only has the sprites and I've got no idea where to get them?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:14, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Shaymin and Arceus don't yet have Sugimori artwork yet, only sprites are available for now. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 15:30, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

Illegal?
Is it considered illegal to copy images from a site and put them here? --Myth 12:04, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Only if those images are expressly copyrighted by the site that you are taking them from. In other words, if they are works of art created expressly for the purpose of a particular site.  Screenshots and sprites from games generally fall under fair use.  No site can rightfully claim ownership of another company's game's screenshots or artwork.  And as long as you're not using said screenshots or artwork to make money (which you're not), you have every right to use them.  How else do you think we ended up with so many screenshots and sprites on our site?  If it were illegal, someone would have shut us down (and wikipedia for that matter) a long time ago.  So as long as you're not taking something like, I dunno, the IGN logo because maybe IGN are your initials and you like the way the logo looks, or someone's creative property that they have expressly stated that no one has permission to reproduce the artwork (like someone's own fan art of a video game character), you're perfectly fine with taking other images from sites as long as you know they aren't the owners of that image.  One word of caution however, avoid images that are watermarked (i.e. they have a little transparent logo slaped over the image somewhere like the bottom right corner or something.) Procyon (Talk) 12:23, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry, while we're on the subject, is it illegal to use screenshots from the E3 movie (On the left of the linked page, I can't link to it)of Super smash bros brawl, at the bottom of the website's page it says it's illegal but can we claim screenshots under fair use.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:38, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * "in connection with any product or service that is not Nintendo's, in any manner that is likely to cause confusion among customers, in any manner that disparages or discredits Nintendo, or in any manner that is otherwise exploitative for any commercial purpose or that otherwise infringes Nintendo's intellectual property rights."
 * That's the important part. We clearly state we're for guides (no confusion), we promote Nintendo, we are non commercial, we are using it under fair use.  IANAL but I don't see any problems. -- Prod (Talk) 12:50, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Is there any way to actually undelete images, I heard wikipedia has a way but do we? I uploaded them then deleted them, I have the links, this is one, is there any way or do I need to take them again.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:53, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You're a sysop, didn't you see the Restore button on the page that you linked to? I just clicked Restore, and viola, it came back.  But then a noticed you reuploaded the image, so I'm not sure if what I did had any effect. Procyon (Talk) 13:16, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry, I realised that they were still in my recycle bin. Usually when you try to restore an image it will only restore the text, try undeleting this, for me, you would only get the text.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:19, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Just a little bit of pedantry, it's voila, not 'viola'. A Viola is a kind of instrument (that I happen to play) with a range below a violin and above a cello, and is also the name of a character in Shakespeare's play Twelfth Night.  Carry on ;-)  --Froglet 10:24, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually it's voilà not voila :P--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:24, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, I know, I just don't know how to make those fancy characters on this keyboard. I wish I had my German keyboard with me.--Froglet 08:30, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Froggy, does your keyboard have an Alt Gr button, if it does then you can get a few useful characters by holding down that and pressing the letter, the é is very helpful for when you want to say Pokémon, sadly the á is the wrong way round so use the edit box below or hold normal alt then press 0224. Also, if you need a character added to the box then ask a sysop.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:29, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * á = Alt160, é = Alt130 --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:22, 12 June 2007 (CDT)

Help with formatting
This is all still a bit of a mystery to me. Are there any guides or keys on how to get formatting to work? Once I have figured out how to properly post and format I will begin to contribute what I can. I know I can start out by fleshing out the pages for Advance wars 1 & 2, Cooking Mama, and Digimon World 2. --Zaiqukaj 06:34, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I just left a welcome message for Zaiqukaj, which contains the link to the SW guide, but this may highlight the fact the guide on its own is not visible enough to new users. Granted, since we welcome every new user, this may not be a problem, but since Zaiqukaj asked for help before he edited, we was not able to locate the guide one his own.  Does it need better advertisement on the front page? Procyon (Talk) 06:57, 11 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I think so, yes... Maybe put it right in the welcome to StrategyWiki box?-- Duke  Ruckley  09:43, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The help button on the left links directly to the guide, I would think that would be obvious enough. Zaiqukaj, as a new user, perhaps you can tell us what pages you looked at/read before coming and asking here.  That way we can put links on those pages. -- Prod (Talk) 09:53, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree, i have huge trouble when I want help, maybe have a few redirects from typing help etc. in the search bar.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:51, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * We can also change here to pint to the guide.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:31, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, how about:

Welcome to, $1!

Your account has been created. Don't forget to change your Preferences. Also, check out StrategyWiki's Usage Guide to help you get on the right track.


 * SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 11:43, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Should have something big like, Need help?  Want to learn Wikimarkup?  Check out the StrategyWiki guide for everything you need.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:08, 11 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Thank you for the help everyone. I am going to do a little more browsing to get a better feel for data organization, the overall look of the guides, and common naming conventions for section titles. Since someone asked, here is my history of browsing yesterday before posting here. I first found this site by Googling for a walkthrough for Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Before posting here I randomly browsed through about 7 other guides and read the staff lounge page. I tend to get lost visually within a large amount of links. Perhaps if this confusion is a common problem you could fix it with an automated "getting started" my talk message as a reminder/notification of where to find the site's rules and helpful resourses for those who are starting out. Also, I somehow accidentally deleted this when I replyed. Sorry about that. It was an honest mistake. --Zaiqukaj 07:45, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It's fine. As for the message, that is what the welcome message is for (the one left on every new user's talk page, found at StrategyWiki welcome). Anyway, do you think we should implement a) My option for the new account creation, b) Notmyhandle's option for the new account creation, c) leave it the same, or d) come up with another one? --SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 11:25, 12 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I would keep it the same. With all websites, it will take new users a variable amount of time to gather their bearings and learn how everything works. It could be flawless and I would still be a moron starting out. Skimming the archive of this area is pretty helpful. It answered a lot of questions before I could even wonder about them. --Zaiqukaj 04:09, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry to disagree but I still think that we should add it in, I can't see it doing us much harm.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 05:08, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

partial content & screencapture question
I'm going to start seriously fleshing out and writing the Digimon World 2 strategy now. A few questions popped up so here they are: If I have partial information for a section should I post the partial information or is it best to wait and post once I have all of it? Also, at this point I have no ability to take screenshots or get images for things on my own. What is the standard way screenshots are taken? --Zaiqukaj 03:48, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Since it's a wiki, pages are constantly being revised. Even if what you've written is very incomplete it could still be of some value to others, and you might even find that other people find what you've written and then improve it (which they couldn't have done if you hadn't posted it). You can use stub or wip on the page to let others know it's not all there yet. As for screenshots, there are a variety of ways.
 * The first option is to use the PC version if one exists (which in this case it doesn't). Many games come with screenshot support, and even when they don't programs like Fraps can capture from them pretty smoothly.
 * Another option is to use an emulator (ePSXe, in the case of the PlayStation) which has built-in screen capturing of some sort. The downside here is that you can't transfer your save files to it without some sort of device, but on the plus side you can use emulator saves to save and load at any time and in any place (rather than only when and where the game itself allows it), which makes taking some shots a lot less frustrating.
 * Another way is to use a video capture card; this costs money and is a bit more fiddly, but it means you can still play on the real system.
 * If all else fails you can hunt for existing screenshots. Since screenshots are automatically the property of the game's copyright holder (rather than becoming the property of whoever takes the screenshots) any you find on the web are fine as long as they don't have watermarks (GameSpot and the like love putting their logo on everything they upload). The biggest problem is that certain shots might never have been taken before, especially if the game is less popular and/or has no PC version.
 * I've used a mixture of these for the guides I've worked on and it's worked quite well so far. GarrettTalk 05:38, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks for the information. I had no idea they had emulators for the Playstation. The idea of a wiki is still a new concept to me. It sounds like a very efficient system for data gathering and colaborative work as long as people aren't jerks about it(needlessly deleting or making up things). I look forward to helping contribute. --Zaiqukaj 07:48, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I whole heartedly recommend the use of emulators for any system prior to, and including the N64 (which includes the Playstation, but you'll have to exclude the Sega Saturn, emulation for that system just isn't up to snuff yet, but it's getting closer.) I use them for all of my guides.  If you need any help with that, leave a note for me on my page.  ePSXe is fantastic, but can be a bit bewildering even if you are familiar with emulators, because it relies so heavily on plugins, just as many N64 emus do.  Procyon (Talk) 15:39, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Good to know. The last time I checked emulators were pretty hard to find(at least for me). Are there any good websites or resources for this? I would really like to learn more about these in the hopes of gaining the ability to take some screenshots --Zaiqukaj 05:22, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * MAME has a guide here, there's quite a few in this cat on wikipedia for a list of notable ones but Proc probably knows the best ones.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 05:32, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Check out Zophar's Domain. He covers what seems like every emulator in existence, and his descriptions which gives a fair idea of their features and quality, but he doesn't explain how to use them. As for help, easyEmu has very clear guides for some of the most popular emus. GarrettTalk 05:50, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, Zophar's Domain is in a permanent state of suspension. It's not being updated anymore.  While not nearly as organized as Zophar, emulation9 is updated daily, and maintains links to every active emulator.  You just get a list of emulators instead of the descriptions that Zophar provided.  EasyEmu is a great reference, as is the wikipedia link that Rocky provided.  Another good reference is this page but it's a little rough.  At the very least, all of this should get you started.  Unfortunately, due to legal considerations, we can't entertain a discussion about where to find ROMs.  Sufficed to say, Google can help you more than we can.  Procyon (Talk) 07:46, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
 * OK, that should be enough information. Thanks for the help. The legal thing always makes me weary. Since I don't want anything illegal on my computer I would be strictly sticking to ROMs that I also own a physical copy of the game. --Zaiqukaj 08:01, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Adding a cat will remove all links in your edit summary
Check here, I had 2 links, one to the Pokédex and the other to the cat of Pokémon artwork (I forgot the colon) and it removed the Pokédex reference as well, is ther a way to stop it.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:43, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * You should probably test it on Wikipedia and other wikis to see if it's a problem with MediaWiki. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 19:35, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I wonder what happens if you do that when moving a page? Oh well, some things are best left unanswered?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 11:34, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Hmm, I tried it and it still showed the links (even the category one, and I know I did not use a colon before it). It even worked when I moved the page. -- 15:22, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
 * That's weird, the same thing happened when I tried to replicate it, I'll try again--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:33, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Numbers in Contributions
Just wondering... what are these numbers that display in your contributions right after the time? Like +699? Baejung92 21:52, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It's a count of the number of characters that have been added or removed. It's useful to see how big someone's edit was. -- Prod (Talk) 21:56, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

about deleting a page
Shoot, I forgot about the URLs of the pages being case sensitive. I need admin help deleting http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Digimon_world_2/Types

Hopefully I won't be making that mistake again.
 * Next time, just add delete to the page, you can also move it to the right name with the move tab (Do we have autoconfirmation disbled? if not then you can move after 4-5 days of creating an account) you can also link to it with square brackets, just put Digimon world 2/Types and you'll get Digimon world 2/Types.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:12, 16 June 2007 (CDT)

Problem with title
This template completely fails in IE6 (FF Keeps on freezing my PC :'-, the title of the page (right at the top) says undefined and the title of the page doesn't change. Now why can't I middle click the link to my user page and nothing is showing up in the edit box in red :( --Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:36, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * My only advice is that you try reinstalling FF (get it here). You might have to reinstall your addons too... I'm not sure. -- 14:58, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't really mind about FF (Its Jhust Danned Anotying tyhat yio dont have a sphellchekker :P) but I would like to know why this happens in IE.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:07, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * IE likes to set its own standards on how to represent certain aspects of pages (like transparency and floating stuff) instead of following the standards that nearly every open source browser follows. Do they want to be different? Make it seem like they are better? Who knows, but I'm guessing your issue is a problem like that (where FF and other open source browsers interpret/display it one way, and IE does it another, dysfunctional, way). Oh, and re-installing FF does work. One time for me it updated and I couldn't start it up, but then I re-downloaded it and re-installed it (the same version as the updated one), and it worked just fine. -- 15:22, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * The whole IE standards things brings up the shit I tried to get changed, that the div tags in IE can only have the width set to a maximum of 99% otherwise it messes up. I was like on the phone with them for 5 hours total over several sessions, but hey, now I have friends in India!  Well not really, but yeah, I got nowhere with them.  --User:Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 19:52, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Does anyone think we should put ads on the left hand side of the page, a banner or something using this code so it only shows up in IE6 (Maybe others too). Images work with this. <span style="position:absolute;top:465px;left:-140px;z-index:-1 --Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:04, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I'd say no, mainly because it works for me too, and I'm not using IE6. -- 09:42, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, your sig doesn't work for me, I can see both scissors and it looks horrible.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:27, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Completion Stage 3 for Pokemon Diamond and Pearl
I was wondering, what would qualify Pokémon Diamond and Pearl as a guide at completion stage 3? Like, what would it need? Would it just need more walkthrough sections, or would it need screenshots, too? Thanks for letting me know. Myth 21:55, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It should have enough content for the user to get through the game, with perhaps a few small gaps. -- Prod (Talk) 22:28, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Ah. So basically filling in most of the walkthrough gaps. Thanks. Myth 12:00, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Are we missing an image?
I was checking out the MediaWiki CSS and I saw that http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8e/MP-open-book2.png was broken for me at the time. Is it for you guys? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:02, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It's because the image was moved to Commons (which has different image directories). Those styles weren't used so I removed them. Anything calling for upload.wikimedia.org (or any outside site, for that matter) should be linked to a copy here instead. GarrettTalk 05:49, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, all images, stylesheets, etc. should be hosted at media.strategywiki.org. Can I have the images so that I can upload them?  ech elon  15:07, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I think they've all been eliminated now. There's something else you can fix, though: some external link icons are missing from Blue Cloud's skins folder and so a link to any of them won't have an icon at all in Blue Cloud--https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/, for instance, should have a padlock (http://media.strategywiki.org/w/skins/monobook/lock_icon.gif). This is already implemented in the CSS, it's just that the images aren't in the skins folder. Edit User:Ryan Schmidt/FakeLink to see which ones are missing. GarrettTalk 18:16, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
 * None of the pics work in IE6 though :(--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:43, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
 * They will show up at the end of URLs once they've been added to the skins folder, it's only this template usage that IE6 can't display properly. GarrettTalk 01:59, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Image size
What's the maximum size of an uploaded image? It didn't say in the image guidelines. Myth (talk) 16:55, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * There is none, but try and keep things sane (like a maximum of 1024x768). --DrBob (Talk) 17:19, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * The answer we'd like to use is: As big as it needs to be, but as small as it can be. Just use your best judgment. -- Prod (Talk) 18:07, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Image alignment
I was wondering, how do you align the image to the center of the page? Left and right works, but when you type in "center", it comes up as the default left. Myth (talk) 19:31, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Unfortunately, you can't centre using the standard image parameters. You have to use  tags. -- Prod (Talk) 20:09, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Or .  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:44, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * No offense NMH, you're absolutely right, and I've used that in the past, but we're trying to discourage that, and encourage Prod's method since it's easier for many to edit and understand. Procyon (Talk) 20:48, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah; just keep in mind that it should only be used when in conjunction with another div style, for organization purposes. Ironically they contain the exact same amount of characters... --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:52, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I tried the tags, but they didn't work... Myth (talk) 22:33, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * thumb overrides . Not sure if Pokémon Mystery Dungeon/Thunderwave Cave was the page you were trying it on, but I've changed it (probably needs to be undone >_>). The only problem is that you can't get text to wrap around it. -- Prod (Talk) 22:39, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It actually wasn't, but it looks nice now, thanks ^_^ Myth (talk) 18:38, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Lists that use commas
There is a grammar varient that always annoys me, but it does exist. When making a list that needs commas do we still use the comma before the and or do we drop it? I default write/type using varient 1, but some places insist on varient 2 being used.
 * varient 1: I have apples, oranges, pears, and bannanas.
 * varient 2: I have apples, oranges, pears and bannanas.
 * It depends entirely on personal preference. Wikipedia's got a nice article about it. Basically, it's typically used by Americans, but less frequently by British people. I prefer variant 2 (i.e. lack of an Oxford comma), but as I said, it's up to personal preference, and nobody's going to penalise you for it in your guides. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 09:52, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Thats pretty interesting, I didn't even know it had a specific name. I just wanted to ask since I want to learn all I can to match everyone else. --Zaiqukaj 10:11, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I've always preferred the more relaxed British format. Yes I have. :) echelontalk 23:19, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Zaiq; just to reiterate, it doesn't matter one way or the other. I think I've started to put the comma in recently, but now I'm going to switch back since I know it's ok for me to do so.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 00:49, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

Edit Tags
I was wondering how to make an edit tag. I saw the Work In Progress is, but I couldn't see the tag on any pages containing the edit tag. Myth (talk) 18:47, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
 * What? wip is a template, and there's no such thing as an "edit tag". --DrBob (Talk) 19:45, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Do you mean drivel--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 00:51, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * If you wany to make your own tag then edit one of those, copy it to the sandbox and give it a try.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 00:55, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I still think my drivel icon was way better... --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 11:14, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

how to make a table
hello, new user here. i just joined strategy wiki today, and have wrote the section for controls in ffx. i would like to turn this in to a table, but i dont know how.--Pyro maniac 00:31, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Press edit and check the source of this

--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:04, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Also check out our help page--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:05, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

okay thanks Pyro maniac 19:01, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

how to delete an unnecesary page
I just wanted to know, how do you delete an unnecesary page? i thought is was drive|, but i was wrongPyro maniac 19:00, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Are you thinking of drivel? We consider drivel to be ugly, unnecessary content that needs revision and cleanup. Only administrators like myself can delete pages.  You can always make a request for deletion on any administrator's talk page, or mark a page with  . --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 19:06, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Is there a way to allow normal users to delete the pages that they created when they are the only person in the history, I think it would be a good idea.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:53, 7 July 2007 (CDT)
 * No, there isn't. The only way to enable that would be a software hack, which would be erased once we upgrade to 1.10 anyway. Plus, if we had that, what would the point of "show preview" and the Guide be? Users need to learn what they should and should not do and giving them that kind of power unnecessarily prevents that learning process, at least in my opinion. -- 10:47, 7 July 2007 (CDT)

Singapore Map
When will the singapore map info be posted on the website?--Fideltan 01:27, 23 July 2007 (CDT)Fideltan


 * Are you talking about MapleStory? Remember that StrategyWiki is run by volunteers, not payed editors.  I bet IsaacGS will be the one bringing that info up, but if you can add or start something, please do! --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 08:47, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

Glitch in Special:Uncategorizedimages
How come some images in here are categorised and the only way to make the software take it out is to put another return between the text and the cats for the images.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:40, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Could you give an example? --DrBob (Talk) 07:55, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Click the link in the title, Image:Dune II IX.jpg is at the top but it is in Category:Sprites, it will go out of the Special:Uncategorizedimages if you put a return between the text and the cat for the image.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 07:59, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * They don't need a new line; they just need a null edit. There may be a way to get MediaWiki to go through them all automatically. --DrBob (Talk) 08:48, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Fixed whatever was there already. -- Prod (Talk) 08:57, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think &action=purge works but it's been fixed now.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 09:17, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Null edits are different from purge. A null edit is when you load the edit page and click save without changing anything.  That's what I did to clear them all out. -- Prod (Talk) 09:20, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Copyvio
Is it a copyvio if the readme is a walkthrough and you copy and paste that into a page on here?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 08:05, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I would guess so. Most authors and websites are a bit possessive of things like that. The wording may be copyrighted but ideas and information normally can't be. When it comes to text, things like the specific wording is what would be protected... So quoting something word for word tends to be frowned upon in general. Copyrights are pretty tricky so I'm also curious to hear more about this. Could we perhaps also add walkthrough/guide books to this question? --Zaiqukaj 08:34, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * It depends on what sort of legal information is stated. There are four general possibilities for this:
 * It states that it is copyrighted and cannot be used/duplicated without permission.
 * Try to contact the person/company and ask if you can use a verbatim copy of whatever on StrategyWiki, be sure to clearly explain what StrategyWiki is and that it is licensed under the GFDL. Also be sure to explain that since StrategyWiki is publicly editable, the page may get modified. If you get a positive reply, go for it. If not, and it is the ONLY work of its kind out there, claim fair use and re-word/modify it heavily (as in if you did a Google search for the modified content, the link to the original won't show up).
 * It doesn't say anything, not even contact information.
 * It is still protected under copyright by the person/company that wrote it. If it, again, is the only work of its kind, re-word and modify it heavily. If not, try to find something that clearly states its copyright stance.
 * It is copyleft, but not with the GFDL.
 * Since it is not compatible with the GFDL, it must be re-worded/modified to make it a new piece. Check the provisions of the license it is under, as most also apply to derivative works. If it allows for dual-licensing, put it under the GFDL as well and use it. If not, find something else as it can't be used here.
 * It is GFDL or public domain.
 * Use it.
 * Of course, that was only a general overview of a few things that might happen. If I knew what readme you were referring to, I could give a more specific answer. -- 08:52, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * This the official readme that comes with the game. I'd guess that we shouldn't use it but here's a snippet from the bottom:

All registered and non-registered trademarks and trade names contained within this document are the properties of their respective owners.
 * That's all the copyright I can find, this is just in the normal readme I didn't buyanthing else.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 09:15, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, its the official one. That would put it into case number two with the fact that it is probably the only one of its kind, so go ahead and use it (after modification). If the company actually decides to care and come after us, we can always delete it. -- 09:23, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, very strange. BTW the game is called Project Nomads and according to Wikipedia, the site has been closed. Is just changoing the wording enough because it's a full walkthrough.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 09:31, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

wonky walkthrough button
I was working on randomly adding footers and links when I stumbled upon a missing link. When I double check the link, Walkthrough, it leads to what I thought was a duplicate. On this computer it leads to a page with the correct url http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Banjo-Kazooie/Walkthrough but it has the content of Spiral Mountain. When I go to edit it to remove the duplicate data the URL reflects that of spiral mountain and not that of walkthrough. Is there something wrong? --Zaiqukaj 13:58, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Nothing is wrong. The page was changed to a redirect to Spiral Mountain.  I've deleted the page for now so you can rebuild it however you want.  With redirects there is always a link at the top of the page back to the original (check Asphalt). -- Prod (Talk) 14:30, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Wii "Z" Button
I can't help but notice that the Z-button for the Wii isn't the real image like the B- and A- buttons. Why is it different? (seen here) --Myth (talk) 20:56, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I couldn't find an image of the back of the Nunchuk so I could rip the Z and C buttons. If needed, I'll take a real photo, but that will then have to be done with the rest of the buttons as well. -- 18:44, 15 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Your right... the views are all front or side views. Nothing you could take the whole Z-button with anyways. --Myth (talk) 12:15, 18 July 2007 (CDT)


 * Just so you know, I saw that the button has be replaced with this one [[Image:Wii-Button-Z.png‎]]. I didn't upload it, but I think it is a perfect replacement. --Superpowered Mario (talk)13:31, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, blendmaster uploaded new buttons for the Wii (and they look awesome). -- 13:56, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

When should an article for Mario Kart Wii and information regarding the Wii Wheel be made?
When should the Mario Kart Wii article be made: before or after its inital release? Information on the game is beginning to rapidly surface up, and a few tracks, items and characters have been revealed. Should the article be started as a temporary stub and develop as time goes on, or should be started when all the information is ready at once? I'm not in a rush to make the article, but I would like to agree on an answer. Also, the eventual introduction of the Wii Wheel is getting closer. It should eventually be added to the Wii article as an accessory. Superpowered Mario 13:08, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Be bold but make sure that everything has been oficially revealed, use future, we have Super Smash Bros. Brawl and that's not been released so I'd guess it's ok.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:34, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

I will wait for further information to come out. Then I will start the article. Right now there are only twelve characters revealed and a few tracks and items. To notify anyone working on the same thing I am, the new revealed tracks are Wario Railway, a new Moo Moo Farm, Mushroom Jungle, and confirmed in the Flower Cup, Mario Circuit. The retro tracks are Yoshi Falls and Peach Beach. If anyone has information on anymore, let me know. Superpowered Mario 14:07, 25 July 2007 (CDT)


 * I created Mario Kart Wii so you can begin filling in information. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 14:35, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Right now, I've put in some information that I know of, and I have more to add. There isn't much to do but wait for more information. At least the article is developing steadily. --Superpowered Mario 15:17, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Hello?
Hello? Im sorry if im bothering u but i hav a question. I put a few facts on runescape, reffering to my knowledge of playing runescape until my character was level 88. Would adding a few game facts help other gamers? Thx and good luck
 * Ok, first of all, sign your comments with either [[Image:Wikisigbutton.png]] or four tildes ( ~ ). Secondly, use proper spelling and grammar. This is a website, not a chatroom, and that type of presentation makes us look like a bunch of five-year olds. And finally, to answer your question, please do! Don't relate any personal experiences, but any information that you could give that would help other people get through the game easier and quicker is great! -- 08:14, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I just saw this and my first impression was, "Wow, don't eat the newbies Ryan..." :P echelontalk 23:21, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I would've been nicer if I didn't have to go into history to figure out who wrote it (aka they signed their comment)... But, really, that grammar is atrocious. -- 09:10, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Template help
Can someone help me with an addition to the rename template, if it has a parameter then the page goes into a sub-page of the rename category, I've had a test here but I have no idea why it doesn't work when I transclude it here, if anyone can help me then it would be much appreciated.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:04, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * What is the purpose of this template? -- Prod (Talk) 12:21, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * I've fixed it, and I think I know why Rocky is doing it. Normally, the rename template puts things in Category:Pages needing renaming. However, if the first parameter is defined (the suggested name), it puts it in Category:Pages needing renaming/Name Given instead. -- 13:40, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, that's it, thanx for the help.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:13, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Whats the best way to vandalise
How do i performance vandal attack this wiki
 * Wow that's an appropriate question to ask at the staff lounge... Baejung92 20:04, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * The best way to vandalize is to get banned. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:18, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Er... isn't that the other way around NMH? Procyon (Talk) 21:12, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Shhh, it's positive reinforcement. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:17, 1 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Ha ha ha. Um some people are strange as this is the best way to avertise that they are vandal's . Richardson j 20:30, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Let's not give anyone ideas for vandalism. THAT ISN'T SOMETHING WE SHOULD MAKE INCREASE!!! (quietly walks away.) --Superpowered Mario (talk • contribs) 14:41, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * You ping 127.0.0.1 with millions of packets of data. echelontalk 18:39, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Need an image
I'm not sure this is the best place but does anybody have some cover art or some other art that i can use for Military Madness. Plus if anybody can able to give other help to it thanks Richardson j 20:48, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * . Google Image Search is your friend... -- 21:00, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Well im useing my wii to do it and i'm unable to upload images Richardson j 21:03, 3 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry for the delay. Anyway, check out Image:Military Madness boxart.png. -- 09:01, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Thanks i shall put it in right away and once again thanks ,Richardson j 19:45, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Completion stage 5
I've seen it mentioned on the promising guide page. What exactly is it, and what does a guide need to have in order to be given it? Baejung92 20:51, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * There's no one-size-fits-all answer, but roughly: Complete instructions, complete walkthrough, complete bestiary, fully labeled maps, and a complete set of screenshots to compliment the walkthrough (rough estimate, at least 2 screenshots per page.) A number 5 guide can still be edited if someone sees a correction to be made, or would like to add something useful, but in theory, a number 5 guide doesn't need any more editing to improve it.  Basically, if Pokémon Red and Blue has more screenshots, it would be at number 5.  The same will be true for The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past once I get the bestiary and a few other sections complete.  I plan to play through it when I'm finished to get the necessary shots.  Procyon (Talk) 21:01, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * For a shorter answer, you can compare a num=5 to a featured page on wikipedia. -- Prod (Talk) 21:14, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Also, these guides have to meet a community consensus. We put it to vote. echelontalk 18:40, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Hey guys! I've just got back from a weeks holiday and have just seen the changes. They look great! and the front page really stands out more now. I especially like the logos and Recent Activity column. The only thing I'd change would be the "PlayStation2" into "PS2" and the same with "PS3" as the number goes into another line - or maybe get rid of Xbox or GameCube as they are a bit last gen now. Anyway good work guys! Poiuytre 13:40, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
 * We're keeping the two recent generations on the browser unless it becomes a problem, as for the names, we are referring to them as they are officially named, so it won't get shortened. -- 11:19, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

what are the requirements for the completion stages?
I just want to know: how do you guys determine what completion level something is; what do you look for?

Ttfan147 08:24, 14 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Its usually based off of the contributor's judgment. Use a level 4 completion as a basis.  If something is not quite level 4, then it should be three.  If something is half way there, it should be two.  Etc.  A level 4 guide is generally the following:


 * No red links
 * Walkthrough complete
 * Sometime missing pictures, but should have at least a few to get started
 * A good look and feel (clean pages, easy to read, no drivel, etc)


 * Remember these are just general ideas of a level four guide. There is no current policy on them and there probably will not be one for a while.  In any case, just use your judgment and if someone disagrees with you, we can take care of it then.-- Duke  Ruckley  08:41, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Basically, it goes as thus:
 * [[Image:0000.svg]] Little or No content. Exists primarily as a placeholder.
 * [[Image:0001.svg]] Sparse content, there would be more red links than blue links if the Table of Contents was created to its fullest. Very little in terms of the actual walkthrough.
 * [[Image:0002.svg]] Maturing content, the main walkthrough can take you through at least half the game, and there are a few pages in the Getting Started and Appendices sections.
 * [[Image:0003.svg]] Fairly thorough content, the main walkthrough may be complete or just about there, and the Getting Started and Appendices sections are well-developed with very few to no red links.
 * [[Image:0004.svg]] Comprehensive guide that is missing only a few things formatting-wise, namely pictures. The look and feel is clean and there are no red links.
 * [[Image:0005.svg]] Featured guide. Please see Featured guides for the criteria.
 * So, just loosely base your decision off of these to assign a correct completion stage. -- 08:58, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

StrategyWiki Bug
It involves the watchlist. not showing everything and heres the step by step details Richardson j 21:20, 22 August 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) load watchlist
 * 2) click all but it only shows the last 7 days but other wikis show everything and the only way to show everthing is to
 * 3) click Show and edit complete watchlist which doesn't show edit summary.
 * Ok, what it's doing is restricting what it is showing based off your preferences. If you want it to show everything, go into your preferences, and under watchlist, change the "number of days to show in watchlist" to 0. If you have the "expand watchlist to show all applicable changes" checked, uncheck it as it will restrict the amount shown then (I think). Let me know how that works. -- 08:46, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Skizz, make sure this info is in the SW:Guide. -- 11:16, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Didn't work Richardson j 18:34, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * So you want every day to appear? Well it's been restricted to 7 days maximum; I think you know that though.  Why does it matter though?  How far back do you want to go?  I assume it's restricted to reduce strain on the server.  -- 19:55, 23 August 2007 (CDT)
 * I think you can set it under your user preferences to go back as far as you want.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 03:35, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * No, you can't. Try changing it, then go back to preferences and the values have maximums (I set days to 9999999 and it went to 7).  -- 11:16, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

image in your sig
I was wondering, how do you put an image in your signature (i.e. Scissors for Skizzerz, box for Echelon, etc.). Just wondering how and thought it would be a neat thing to do. Myth (talk) 20:42, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry about editing your comment, but I dislike it when people put an "s" at the end instead of a "z" for "Skizzerz." Anyway, as for an image like mine or Rocky's, just come onto IRC and I'll explain it to you. As for Echelon's, that's actually a table, not an image. If you want to see the code, this is mine, this is Rocky's, and just go into editing somewhere where Echelon signed to see his. -- 22:09, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
 * BTW the .css is so that it's fully protected, only you and admins can change it then.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 04:59, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

I got a favour.
Due to a but in the internet channel that if i edit a whole article that the text at the end gets chopped of at the end. Even thu i managed to get around that bug by editing the section of the article that i'm working on but the thing is i want to ad a link to a contents page template but it got too much text. I want one of you guys to add the link in for me please. Well unfortunately i haven't witten down the link to the contents template but i know the article name so i can provide a hink to it which should be helpful and here it is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. And the link itself i want it to be put in the extras section and the link to the page is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest/Ocarina Songs but label the link as Ocarina Songs .if you could do that for me please thanks. Richardson j 18:57, 27 August 2007 (CDT)
 * This problem is supposed to be solved for the most part. What browser are you using? -- Prod (Talk) 19:02, 27 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Internet Channel for the wii which is Opera based Most probably fine on the desktop version unfortunately wii version no good but if you do that favour for me please thanks as i have no way of solving the problem .Richardson j 19:10, 27 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Richardson, please don't take this too hard, but I'm going to be very honest with you. Until I understood that you were typing that note of yours through the virtual keyboard on the Wii, I honestly thought that you were drunk, or somehow incapable of typing normally.  The bottom line is this: We are not going to make special provisions for users who wish to edit guides on the Wii.  It is not recommended, nor preferred.  If you do not have a keyboard, you can not type clearly and professionally (as you have demonstrated above), and Opera on the Wii is not a full featured browser.  It does not support all of the featured used by this site to display it properly (as demonstrated by the problems you are having).  You are going to have to find some other method of editing guides on StrategyWiki.  I know you will find one if you want to contribute.  Good luck.  Procyon (Talk) 20:13, 27 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Yes, the wii browser (and cell phones) have problems with editing StrategyWiki. I think the character limit on the Wii's Opera browser is 1024 characters in the text box, but I'm not sure about that (the cell phone is less - only 512 for me). Basically, if you have a computer, don't use the Wii. It's fine for browsing, but use a normal computer with a keyboard for editing unless you really cannot. -- 22:11, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

How to make a new subpage?
For San Andreas I added a glitch on the page but I don't know how to make a new subpage such as the page for glitch "178 Territory Glitch". Can you help me? --Frank2368 17:51, 29 August 2007 (CDT)
 * Just put the name in the search box (such as Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas/Appendices/178 Territories Glitch, but with the "178 Territories Glitch" part replaced with the name of your glitch), and click "Go." It should say that the page does not exist, and that you can create this page. Click on that link that says "create this page" and you will find an editing box like the one that you used to make your comment. Click on the "Guide Page" button above the box, and change the   in the Header Nav and Footer Nav to "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" (no quotes, case matters). Then, type your glitch in between the Header Nav and Footer Nav, put in an appropriate edit summary in the summary box, then click save page. Viola, you have just created a sub-page! If you didn't understand all of that, just do it as best as you can, and I'll come by and do the rest after you've saved. -- 17:57, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Thank you very much--Frank2368 18:03, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Question about transferring a guide
I am currently working on a guide for the old DOS game Star Wars TIE Fighter for gamefaqs.com, but that site has really made me angry over the past few months... So once I complete it, I intend to upload it there, because I've wanted to write this guide for a long time... But would there be any easy way for me to put it on here? Like, can I give you guys permission to use parts of my guide for on here, or how would I go about that? Vegetaman 17:02, 31 August 2007 (CDT)
 * We don't have to give YOU permission, you have to give US permission. By putting anything on this site you are surrendering actual copyright of the document, however your name is associated to the content that you submit.  What this means is that any person can post any part of your guide anywhere so long as they say Vegetaman wrote it.  Anyways, when you're finished (or while you're not finished) you can just start pasting content on the correct pages.  -- 18:01, 31 August 2007 (CDT)


 * Excellent. I'd say I'm only half of the way done, but I hope to be done in a few weeks. I'll have to add the game and somebody will probably have to pretty it up and screenshots will need to be added, but no worries there. Many thanks. Vegetaman 18:52, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

Table of Contents
I want to know how to change the table of contents for the Sims 2 page but I'm not sure how. Clicking on edit doesn't do anything, I don't know how to add new pages to it and I'm scared I might accidently delete pages that I've already completed. Can someone help me?--Sims2Guy 00:09, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You need to edit The Sims 2/Table of Contents directly. -- Prod (Talk) 00:18, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

Oh never mind. Worked out how--Sims2Guy 00:26, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

Tables and Graphs
I know your not allowed to copy information directly from copyrighted sources but are you allowed to copy raw data, (that is, tables of information and graphs) from those sources if they're relavent to the page being created or edited.--Sims2Guy 00:31, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
 * You can copy the data, as long as you completely redo the layout and presentation. -- Prod (Talk) 00:34, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

missing games question
Work has been keeping me too busy to play through games lately but I still want to help out since this site is a wonderfully helpful idea. Right now I have access to a lot of box art that we are missing. The games also have their manuals so I can at least do the research for the first page and add any information like play instructions from the manuals. I was wondering if it was considered rude or undesirable to create stubs for games that have yet to have anything added on them? The most I would be adding would be info for the front page and instructions on how to play. --Zaiqukaj 21:29, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * No, it's not rude at all. We weigh the pros and cons of doing this.  On the one hand, it adds work that someone can eventually expand upon.  On the other hand, the presence of the stub itself may deter less investigative members from working on a guide because they assume is already present (even though it's just a stub.)  But I think the pro outweighs the con in this case.  And in my opinion, a "fleshed-out" stub is much better than a page-creation stub.  So feel free to go for it.  Procyon (Talk) 21:37, 4 September 2007 (CDT)
 * The more information you add, the better. Some people focus on the main pages, some people focus on the guides. Really the best thing you could do to start off a guide (even if you don't plan on writing the actual guide) is to fill in a few key pieces of information:


 * Make sure the game name is right (verify based on the wikipedia page, name on the box, additionally the company site should give you the exact 'trademarked' name).
 * Fill in the infobox (wikipedia is a great help)
 * Add some quick info about the game (a few sentences)
 * Create the table of contents (using the preload button) and then add some extra links (level names, or just something specific for the game)
 * A good example of this is Ghost Master. You don't need to fill everything in, but the more the merrier :). -- Prod (Talk) 11:42, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Thank you for answering. I will keep this information in mind when making a new page. --Zaiqukaj 08:46, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

Naming Pages
I have basically finished the walkthroughs, renamed the missions and am getting ready to do cleanup from when I first started, as I feel I have a bit more of a basic 'format' feel of things now.

I have one idea about naming the missions, and wanted your opinion. When I am working on things, I see the mission titles like "Blue Angel" and I have to make extra efforts to remind myself what mission it is, China, USA, GLA -- and then what number the mission is. I know I can default to the Table of Contents, but just looking at the page I feel lost.

What do you think of this page-naming concept...do you think it is too much information???

CHI-1 The Dragon Reborn  or China 1. The Dragon Reborn USA-1 Blue Angel GLA-3 Flood of Chaos or at least: 1. The Dragon Reborn 2. Chaos Factor

thanks...Karlcsr 18:30, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Uh, try to be as descriptive and concise as possible. Other than that, no idea. -- 20:11, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, you could take a look at how I named the missions for StarCraft. Since yours are way shorter than my examples, I'd say any of them are okay. Baejung92 20:20, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

I replied to this on his talk page. In short, I don't think it's necessary (even the StarCraft guide doesn't really need them). -- Prod (Talk) 20:44, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Please ban XLordKishuX to edit maple story category..
He is edit maple story category and destroy it or put wrong staff there....i did undo his changes 5 times and said to him to stop this but he is not listening to me...--Ofir38 03:35, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Done. Sorry for not doing it sooner, i have also reverted all of his edits.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 05:36, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Where did you tell him to stop??--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 05:39, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

in my MS forum...i know him there and in that forum i speak hebrew and he speak hebrew 2 so i told him there in pm to stop edit the MS category and he didnt listening to me...--Ofir38 07:29, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Ah. Anyway, we can't just block someone for editing one specific thing. They can either edit everything (aka, not blocked), or edit absolutely nothing (aka, banned). Quite obviously, vandals fall into the second category, but please keep in mind that when blocking users, it is impossible to "pick a category". Just to let you know, Ofir. -- 09:52, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Page Protection would kinda, but that's not really an option.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 09:58, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

YouTube video guidelines?
Are there any specific guidelines to adding Youtube videos to a strategy section?

For instance, I have recently been uploading video walkthroughs of The Simpsons Hit & Run to my YouTube account and was wondering if I would be able to use them here. Would videos like these be okay, or should I get rid of all the extra stuff (site logo, zomg glitch alert, watermark, etc) and just upload plain videos? Kamek 22:12, 21 September 2007 (CDT)


 * Don't worry about it, just use the YouTube template (you can see pages that have been using it by going to YouTube and then "What Links Here" in the toolbox, then check the list for examples. Btw, thanks for the contributions - vids are greatly appreciated.  -- 23:38, 21 September 2007 (CDT)

Outside link
Is Audition/Songs an acceptable page? All it contains is a link to an outside source that has all the songs listed in it. Baejung92 23:09, 28 September 2007 (CDT)
 * Never mind, I see it just got rewritten. Baejung92 23:15, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

code with spaces
When a link or image name has spaces in it I just noticed that both space and underscore work in the same manner(at least in my browser). I'm confused on if there is a prefered standard.

Also, is it ok to take information from a walkthrough book if the information is a statistic or number that would be the same in every source? For example: The encounter rates of enemies in a specific area or how many HP something has. Zaiqukaj 07:59, 1 October 2007 (CDT)
 * There's no standard for spaces vs. underscores right now. I personally prefer to use spaces because I think it looks cleaner.  As for statistics from games, as long as you do not copy the formatting of a guide, you can use the information.  Everything you take/learn from another guide must be rewritten to avoid copyvio.--
 * It's better to upload images with underscores but it doesn't really matter.-- The preceding signed comment was added by Rocky (talk • contribs). 10:29, 1 October 2007 (CDT)
 * When using the images in a page, try to avoid underscores. They aren't really necessary and it looks cleaner.  The underscores are converted to spaces when you upload the file anywayz. -- Prod (Talk) 11:18, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

infoboxes
With the different categories that infoboxes cover, is there a proper/preferred way to cover remakes or game collections that include the game? There are also some services that allow use of older games. Should the dates a game becomes available on one of those be stated somewhere? Just thought I would ask since Wikipedia threw me off by giving release dates for Midevil on Playstation Network. --Zaiqukaj 06:08, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

I'm confused
Well i started to edit Neo Geo and i added in an infobox via then saved it off so a second later it comes up with the needed syntax. I thougt it be simply like other infoboxes but it ended being jiberish to be .Richardson j 06:14, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Fixed that. You must have used subst: when creating it. It's currently just a stub, so could use some information filled in.  Check System for some documentation of variables. -- Prod (Talk) 09:26, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
 * I added some info to the infobox, but it could still use some information in the body of the page... Oh, and Prod I hope you don't mind, I fixed the link in your response.--
 * Ok thanks Richardson j 18:15, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

For the experts out there.
OK, so Prod and I have been on a tear to reorganize the fighting game move lists and get them transcluded on respective pages. I thought it was a pretty good idea, and it has been working well up until now. If anyone tries to check out Street Fighter Alpha 3, with its 33 transcluded move lists, they're probably not going to succeed. It seems to time out. I've been editing the page to try things out, and the most number of guys that I can get to show up without it bombing out is around 10, and even then it's extremely sloooooooow. I don't know if there's anything that I can do to optimize the individual lists, or anything in general that would help SW build this page in its entirety... I think we may simply have hit upon some kind of limit. Any advice that anyone has on this problem would be greatly appreciated. Chances are I'll just break the list down into smaller sections, as unfortunate as that would be. (Well, it wouldn't be that unfotunate, it would just make SFA3 different from the other lists...) Procyon (Talk) 16:47, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
 * I've always been kind of confused with the move lists project. What exactly is the goal?  Are you trying to put all of the lists on each guide as well as a specific character page for each character with all of their moves from each game?  Also, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea to have a separate page for each character in the guides with strategies vs. other characters (or is this part of the transclusion as well?).  Like I said, I've always been kind of confused about it.  Maybe it would be worth it to create a move lists project page that explains what you are trying to do and has a to do list for those of us who don't really know where to begin.  Kind of like the cleanup project.--
 * The original intention was to have two ways for a player to reference moves from every fighting game: A master list of all the characters from a particular game, and a character list with all of his/her moves from every game. That was the the concept at it's most basic.  Unfortunately, the original plan doesn't lend itself very well to the organization here at SW.  (I mean, it lends itself well, just not very well.)  So Prod convinced me of a few reformatting ideas, and I like them a lot, particularly because rather than having to update to distinct lists in order to keep each page up to date, you only have to update one, and the update occurs everywhere the list is transcluded.  So even if we transclude it three or more times, it's not a problem.  At this very moment, Street Fighter II has pretty much the ideal format for the move lists.  Each game's page contains its master move list, and each of the character pages reference their own moves from each of the games.  (This way you can see how the moves differ from one version to another).  Versus strategy was never in the scope of the Move Lists project itself, per se.  That doesn't mean there's anything stopping anyone from adding a strategy page to any fighting game page they wish.  Along those lines, a combo page might be nice as well, but my personal biggest concern was recording all of the special moves.  So... does that answer all of your Qs Duke?  Cuz I'm really hoping someone can answer mine.  I have a feeling that Template:SFA3 may be part of the problem :( Procyon (Talk) 20:05, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

Update: Well I tried blanking out Template:SFA3 as a test, and the page (slowly) succeeded to load. But that template is extraordinarily useful for that game. So either I need to find a way to trim so fat, or split the list up into two parts. Still curious if anyone has any ideas. Procyon (Talk) 20:46, 3 October 2007 (CDT)