User talk:Abacos

Welcome to StrategyWiki!
Hello Abacos! Welcome to StrategyWiki. Thank you for your contributions. If you have any questions, just contact a sysop through their talk page or post on the staff lounge, and they'd be happy to help. If you need help editing, check the StrategyWiki Guide or visit the IRC channel to chat, we're usually around. On the other hand, if you have ideas for StrategyWiki, bring them up on the forums. To keep up-to-date with the goings on of the wiki, consider adding the noticeboard to your watchlist.

Please remember to sign your name when leaving comments on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (    ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to delete this message from your talk page if you like, or keep it for reference. Happy editing! — 19:21, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Pokemon taxonomy
Aha, I got a kick out of your user page. Very cool! -- 20:36, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. For a user whose only constructive edit to the site has been one small grammatical correction, I'm not certain how much we should support multiple and frequent edits to content on a user page which, while creative, provides no benefit to the site or its users, and would be more suited for Google Drive. I would much prefer to see you making more constructive and factual edits to guides that we could use much more help with.  Pro cyon  16:20, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * (lol @ NotMyHandle's response on my talk page.) He is correct, I'm an admin and one of the co-owners of the site, but I don't like to throw my weight around. I was merely expressing my opinion. You're welcome to continue editing your user page, I would just prefer to see some other helpful edits around the site. Goodness knows I make my share of typos and errors (as you have seen), so I know there are plenty to fix. Off the record, I understand and sympathize with your philosophical position, I'm just not sure that you're going to convince Creationists about evolution by using Pokemon as an example of proof...  Pro  cyon  17:02, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I have no intention of booting you off just for working on your user page. I'm just protective of the site from people who use it exclusively for their own personal scratch pad instead of contributing useful edits as well.  Again, I understand your position, and I'm like minded, but arguing the point here is like traveling to Columbia to argue your position on Palestinian-Israeli relations; no in Columbia cares.  I highly doubt that anyone with an opposing position to yours is going to come to this site, see your user page, and be swayed by your arguments.  And from personal experience, the amount of effort you pour into convincing them usually does not produce satisfying results.   Pro  cyon  21:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Paco beat me to it, but yes, everyone is welcome to begin a new guide, no matter how new they are to the site. The admins will help and make sure to include any formatting details you might have missed.  So please feel free, anyone who wants to add an old-school RPG definitely has my blessing (not that they need it, just saying...)   Pro  cyon  14:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Have you looked up what the term is for "evolution" in Pokemon in the original Japanese games? It would be interesting to see what word they use compared to English. -- 16:37, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Japanesu Nihongo
 * NMH's question really interested me, so I did some research. On the Japanese Wikipedia page, they use the term shinka (進化), which is literally translated as evolution.  進 means progress and 化 means the action of becoming.  Very interestingly, the article goes into some of the changes made to the game to make it acceptable in Islamic regions where the term "evolution" was forbidden.  Although this is now a translation from Arabic to Japanese, the Japanese term used to replace 進化 is hentai (変態) which in this context is translated as metamorphosis or transformation, although it also means pervert or weirdo in Japanese, and where the English term for animated pornography originates.  Pro  cyon  16:10, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Mega Man Battle Network/Battle Chips
I moved the explanation to the beginning of the article. There shouldn't be anything afterwards; reference-like notes aren't necessary. A general description of battle chips or a link to a different section would be useful (I'm just brainstorming). My main reason for posting here was to request that you provide an example of how to read the data in the "Program advance" column. Like, "For example, FtrSword's Program's strength is (l3*) 2xHero B, and if you use the chip in n.1 it..." (I have no prior knowledge of this game, nor the mechanics/layout of the menus/equipment allocation process; such an explanation would be very nice at /Getting Started. -- 03:09, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What do the stars mean on the Program Advance page, such as "10x HeroSwrd B*****"? -- 16:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info! So, are the stars actually part of the name in the game? Or do they have a separate "Stars"-like stat? -- 15:56, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Then it looks like the entries in the star columns, such as "07" should just be single digit "7" (no significant digits necessary here). Also, under Suggested Folders there is this sentence which I am confused about,
 * "Some chips are available in one copy only in the video game, therefore it would be necessary to link two GameBoys-Advance and exchange chips to gather more of the same type."
 * Do you mean,
 * "Some chips are available only once in the game. As such, to acquire more of the same unique chip it is necessary to link two Game Boy Advances and transfer a chip acquired in the other game cartridge."
 * -- 17:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, great. Would you mind jotting down these nuances at the start of the page? Thanks. -- 17:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy white magic
Hi Abacos. It's fine if you want to expand the existing spell information on the white magic page, but the page is already big enough and the last thing it needs is another table with redundant information. Having the information sortable really isn't very helpful.  Pro cyon  02:44, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel free to create mock-ups at User:Abacos/Sandbox. The column with the type shouldn't have "a - type" or "c - type" in the cell; just "type". I think the consolidated table was harder to read than the split up tables. -- 15:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Suggestion: remove Sun-Tzu classifications and replace with "Non-combat", "Support", "Debuff", and "Attack". I think those are all straight forward; especially since the target column right next to it clarifies it. -- 17:23, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Frankly, I'm not certain what benefit reducing the eight tables into one giant table will provide. The presentation of the spells according to the eight levels provides a clear enough breakdown of all 32 spell without potentially confusing matters by forcing users to hunt for the spell they are looking for in a huge list. What do you propose a large table will help clarify?  Pro cyon  03:28, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Our standard is sentence case; do not capitalize any words in a title beyond the first that are not pronouns
Thank you. -- 21:36, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * NMH is not talking about game titles, he's talking about walkthrough headers, those things between the equal signs. For example:

This Is Wrong

 * Game titles should always be capitalized, except for the words like "the," "or," "a," "an," "and," or "to" and prepositions of four letters or fewer unless they are the first word in the title. For example:

 Pro cyon  03:06, 16 June 2012 (UTC)


 * "Why making a grammar difference?" I got a kick out of that one. The main thing here, that you haven't realized for the sake of argument, is that we do not identify headers as actual titles, such as with the title of a novel. Maybe you can help change that stance.  The point was to standardize the layout of the site for monitoring purposes.  -- 17:55, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * My "shorter" answer. If it's copied from in-game, match the case.  Otherwise, sentence case. -- Prod (talk) 18:01, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Ability/item classifications
"Peace" doesn't make any sense to me. Support is also peaceful. Healing spells are restorative; better classified as "Restoration" or simply "Support." Non-combat is a widely used term for out of battle skills, such as exit. I suggest that we break down the classifications into more specific ones (e.g. Support into Buff and Healing/Restoration) and use Non-combat for those special skills; it is also a good way to mark support skills that can be used out of battle (so a healing spell could be listed as two types: Restoration as well as Non-combat). -- 18:00, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The five make sense to me. Sorry to be so against "Peace" - it is just ambiguous when used in this context. Times of "peace" may not be peaceful; e.g. if you're walking around in a dungeon with monsters nearby... It's just too odd, whereas non-combat is straightforward. -- 00:02, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Non-combat is more specific than "Miscellaneous spells", which is also what they are. We could make things even MORE complicated and just call them "teleportation" or "telekinetic" spells... Really, these type designations are arbitrary and not really that useful if the individual spell info has these details explained on a per-spell basis. The point is to come up with type designations that are shorthand for certain properties; e.g. "Non-combat" means either "This cannot be used in battle" or "This can be used outside of battle." This is important for healing spells that may be used in combat, but may not be used outside of battle (depending on the game/ability). I was against the type column for these games for this specific reason, since the designations are not specific. -- 16:25, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Travel looks fine. Make sure the type designation applies accurately to all of the spells in a list (each game needs to be reviewed individually for exceptions). Also, please remove the blank rows. They are unnecessary and add junk space when sorting. -- 23:04, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I noticed in DW3 or 4 spells that Antidote was listed as travel. Is it not useable in battle as well? -- 16:28, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It can be used in Battle and outside of it. Paco (talk) 18:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Abacos thinks it can only be used outside of battle... -- 19:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, in DW3 it can be used in Battle and Outside. I'm not sure for DW4 though. Paco (talk) 08:49, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Roger that. @Abacos: I saw your comments on Paco's page. There's no need to duplicate the conversation on multiple pages unless you really want me to comment, like I did so, here. I have both of your talk pages on my watch list so I see the changes that are made. -- 21:44, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Exploration/Combat
Those are not categories, they are use cases. I changed the header of the column from "Type" to "Use". Look, Abacos, I'm speaking strictly for myself here as a guide writer and user of the site, and not as an administrator, but I don't think trying to find a universal (and highly subjective) classification system for spells across RPGs is a productive area for SW guides to explore. If there are in-game classifications like Final Fantasy's Black and White magic, then it belongs in the guide. Otherwise, the amount of confusion and disagreement it lends is greater than the amount of informative help it provides. It would be far more helpful if you help generate content for guides that don't yet exist, than to attempt to apply deeper analysis to existing guides. That kind of contribution, while interesting from a philosophical stand point, is generally outside of the scope of this site, or at best, left to the talk pages of a guide instead of in the guides themselves. Other editors may disagree with me, and that's fine, we run the site democratically, but I am somewhat dismayed by the amount of distraction this discussion has caused. Again, this is simply my personal opinion. Finally, yes, there are Illustrations for DW4 magic, but that was released in 1990, and I'm quite far from there, still stuck in the first quarter of 1988, so it will be a while before I get around to obtaining and scanning the pictures.  Pro cyon  22:52, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You can continue working on anything. The point here is to not create more work than necessary, and to stay objective/confined to the information presented within the game. Original research, to some degree, and "subjective" classifications are unnecessary and could potentially be removed by future editors, since it may be difficult to complete if left unfinished. Also, recreating tables, when the data is already in a readable format, is also unnecessary. If it is objective to the game, however, it will not. Keep it simple! -- 16:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * By all means, please build a guide for Ultima 4. I'm not slated to work on that for a long time, and it's not one of the RPGs that I'm more familiar with so I think that would be great.  In fact, if you wanted to expand the walkthrough for Ultima 3, that would be cool too.  Pro  cyon  22:57, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, we have to start somewhere. The NES version is just as good as any other. As far as http://codex.ultimaaiera.com is concerned, based on their licensing you must adhere to the following:
 * "Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work)."
 * So, in the edit summary, just put the URL of the page(s) you copied from. -- 15:29, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * But Abacos is the actual author, so according to the "copyright" (or copyleft), he's free to take the information and place it wherever he likes. All the attribution would be doing in this case is indicating that he is the original author of the material found on another site, which sort of cancels out the need for attribution.  It's like, "Hey, I'm attributing this work to the original author, which happens to be myself."  So bottom line, I think you're free to bring your specific contributions over without attribution.  However, if you whole sale lift the current text from the codex pages, then you have to attribute since you are not the sole author of that work, and you must also attribute any other contributors.  So, that's where this all stands.   Pro  cyon  02:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The original text you wrote is perfectly fine to put here without any additional attribution. If you go back to the version you wrote, you can copy it here.  If you incorporate changes made by anyone else, you have to attribute them.  I'd say it'd just be easiest to copy paste the info and place a link to the source in the edit history, since our licenses are both CC-BY-SA. This way it avoids any ambiguity of sourcing in the future.  -- Prod (talk) 01:41, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Dragon Warrior 3 merchant
How is the merchant useful at end game? In your "different approach" party setup you transformed a thief into a merchant at the end... -- 16:54, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Ultima 4 inverted triangle
The text inside the triangle has "DEX" and "INT" swapped and in the wrong places. -- 16:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Mega Man Zero names
AFAIK, they don't actually number the missions in-game, and doesn't really add anything to the ToC. If you want the walkthrough pages numbered, switch to an ordered list (#) instead of unordered (*). -- Prod (talk) 19:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Adding talk page sections
To add a new section at the end to a talk page, beside the "Edit" button at the top, there's a "+" sign. Clicking that will start a new section for you. -- Prod (talk) 01:18, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Mystic Ark
I have mapped this Game thoroughly with help from someone so you should check it out. Paco (talk) 08:49, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

wip
wip is one of our cleanup/maintenance tags. Wikipedia usually does their tags similarly to our stub with a big banner. Our maintenance tags were designed to be inconspicuous and appear in the sidebar under the toolbox on BlueCloud (our previous primary skin) and Monobook (which I use to edit). These tags do not appear in Dolphin (the new default skin). If you switch to Monobook, you'll notice it in the bottom left of the left hand column; it has text if you put your mouse over it. -- 17:22, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Also note: we rarely use wip because we consider all of the pages to be a work in progress, forever (who knows what re-releases and patches hold for gaming history). We remove wip tags if they have been there for more than a month. Most people who put a wip tag on a page eventually forget about the project and leave the tag by accident. -- 17:28, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, I'm tired of bothering you about semantics. Plus, I get it and I think most people do, too. Try not to create too much additional work for yourself. This project has enough in its scope already. -- 17:32, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Image categorisation
When uploading images, please make sure to categorise them using the correct image categories and the guide-specific category, i.e.  Category:Game Name images. Please see our image policy for more details. Thanks for helping to keep our images neat! — 17:35, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Quest 64 etymology
Since you've already created a subpage, you might as well keep the details of the names kept listed on that page, rather than in the walkthrough. -- 22:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Use of "video game"
The scope of this wiki only includes video games, so the word video on this wiki can be omitted in every case. -- 16:08, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy Armor tables
What are these sorted by? Not alphabetically, not by absorption... Order of appearance? -- 16:07, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy 7 weapon "values"
Is "Value" a property assigned/labeled in game? Why not use "Price" and replace the 99999's with n/a? -- 16:23, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * They are not synonymous. "Value" is arbitrary and can be used out of the context of shopping (e.g. attack value), whereas price is what the vendor sells it for. You could specify "Gold value", but the found items have a value of zero. Since they don't have any price at all, their prices are not applicable to the table. If the column were price, the cell contents could alternately be "Free" or "Found". But really, if you're sorting by price, you're looking at which items to buy when, and how much you'll have to save up. The only information people want to know about the found items is how to get them. I see you made the change, cool. One other thing - why create an arbitrary designation for the "value"? n/a is accurate to its price, and doesn't construe the table's sorting ability. Even though they may be "zero" in terms of coming before the lowest value, the n/a cells are visually distinct and can be ignored by readers. -- 17:08, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * We tend to prefer a separate column for the sell value; it can be displayed as a pseudo column, with an explanation of the column above table, like so: "12/6", or we could take the brains out of it and just make the second column. We can do a col-span, but that will break the sorting ability of the table, which is nice, so I'd rather do "Price" and "Sell value". Give me a moment while I touch your sandbox. -- 17:22, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah that's fine. It saves more space that way. -- 17:36, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Why not use 0 instead of 2, and add another note? Listing it as "2" is false, since they don't have a price. -- 21:43, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha, sorry for any trouble I've caused. I like figuring out the best course of action. -- 23:10, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Mega Man Zero 2/Forms
Why not combine both listings into one table? -- 15:09, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

7th Saga Monster images
Can you send me all images? I will make it transparent, croping and finally throwing in PNGGauntlet and reupload it all. Paco (talk) 16:59, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * But not all pics are uploaded yet and i don't want to download each images as that take time, so its easier to just pack it all in a zipfile and upload it on mediafire or so and give me the downloadurl over "E-mail this User" or here whatever you like it better. If you like the color, then you can set it in the Table cell with Background color. Paco (talk) 18:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's probably easier to use an online host, like http://www.filefactory.com/ -- 19:10, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * mediafire was just a example, there are plenty other hosting site. Thanks for the hint with saving the page with the images on HDD (didn't thought of it o_0). If you want the exact color from the Background, then it's #505050. just neeeded to load one pic in Paint and choose the color and then check the RGB number and convert it to Hexadecimal number. Paco (talk) 20:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * reuploaded it all. What do you think? Oh also please don't upload pics in big case like XXX.PNG but in small case like xxx.png. Thanks. Paco (talk) 10:22, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy 3 jobs
What do the trailing hyphens mean, here? -- 22:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I overlooked the comma. I've never seen a trailing hyphen used in this context. Usually it occurs when alphabetizing lists that include titles that start with "The". -- 16:20, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy IV/Call Magic
What does "Dropped by enemies" imply? Do enemies use that ability? Is it an item that can be acquired? -- 20:18, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to get the Items from those Monster by the same Name to summon it. To get the Bomb Summon, you need to fight Bombs until they drop a "Bomb Item" which let you learn Bomb Summon. Paco (talk) 21:13, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, I will add that item info, since it was missing. -- 16:10, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I did it already, as soon as you two wrote me here :-) --Abacos (talk) 16:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha, I didn't see your edit. Oh well, my additions aren't excessive. -- 16:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy/Armor
On Final Fantasy/Armor, the use of the NES name is confusing and ambiguous without an explanation. Is the NES version the only one that uses an alternate name to the titles you added for "Body armor", etc.? -- 19:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)


 * My apologies. I had assumed you had organized the page. I am referring to the difference between the item's name, and the "NES" name, even though the first version was the NES's, wasn't it? Getting the naming differences down is important to having a multi-console integrated guide. In regards to the party ratings, I believe they should be scrapped. All of the existing ratings were created by Koweja, with no apparent system. If you want to redo them with objective facts you can try, but I think it's too difficult and much too time consuming to test each party configuration for specifics like the relationship bewtween average damage per turn and average party level. -- 20:38, 3 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. I know naming differences is a big task, so if you could add a note at the top of the page regarding version differences, that would help clear up the ambiguity of the information, to a degree. -- 15:38, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Ultima 5
It will be easier to keep the discussion on this talk page rather than going back and forth between yours and mine. First of all, should the NES version have its own guide page? E.g. Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (NES)? If the NES version requires its own walkthrough, due to significant differences, then it should be separate. Otherwise, the pages should be integrated into the existing walkthrough. To get it to stage three, all you have to do is finish the walkthrough in text form. Also, you should probably add keys/legends to a corner of each map unless all of the symbols are sprites from the game. Even so, it can be helpful. -- 15:34, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback. (1) Ok, I'll integrate the NES walkthrough in the main one, possibly just adding a "NES differences" section in the various pages. (2) All the maps I put in are made exclusively of screenshots, except for the red lines (sometimes yellow or green) that connect the stepladders. (3) I'll proceed to describe in text form how to navigate the dungeons. --Abacos (talk) 15:51, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Simple enough. If you're only playing the NES version, you could finish the walkthrough pages you were working on and continue with that trend, then go back and see if integration is possible. It is easier to move the pages to the (NES) guide than to integrate/chop up the content. I'm just worried that with all of the different ports we could end up with tons of little version-specific notes. -- 16:08, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

I checked, but the NES walkthrough, that is complete, is definitely different from the DOS one. As fas as I know, the NES version is the only one that is significantly different from the others, but it is known to be probably the worse port of any video game in the Ultima series. If a page by itself is made, I wonder how many people would visit it. Still, it would be easier and faster to make a separate guide, and I would have done two guides instead of one ;-) --Abacos (talk) 18:23, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright, let's separate them then. -- 22:50, 11 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I've been thinking about this, particularly because of Double Dragon, and I'm definitely in favor of separating the two. It can be hard to distinguish between ports that are relatively close to the original, but contain a few changes or additions (e.g. Dragon Warrior III and it's upgrades) vs. game that are so significantly different that they merit their own walkthrough (e.g. Salamander and Life Force).  In general, I would trust the author as an authority on the matter, and in this case, it seems fitting.  Out of curiosity, Abacos, do Ultima III and IV warrant the same treatment?  Pro  cyon  23:13, 11 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Done. Also, Abacos, we will want to incorporate a "version differences" section somewhere. [This page http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/NES-Port_of_Ultima_V] has a good (maybe comprehensive) view. The games that are the easiest to split have significantly different graphics. -- 23:19, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Notmyhandle, thanks for the splitting, I was planning to do it in the weekend (if my girlfriend would have given me time).

Procyon, I only played the NES versions of Ultima 3 and 4. From the existing walkthrough of Ultima 3 I can see that the dungeons (the most important part of a written walkthrough, I think) are identical in DOS and NES, only the names are different; therefore, one guide will do. I'm planning to play sooner or later the Sega MS port of Ultima 4, as it is known to be a faithful port of the DOS one, with just improved graphics and sound; I'll let you know. --Abacos (talk) 06:11, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Striking a balance
Hi Abacos. I moved your DW3 class triangle back down to the bottom of the page, but I wanted to explain why. It would be difficult for a new-comer to DW3 to understand your triangle before he or she is even introduced to the classes at all. A lot (most really) of your information is best suited for RPG experts, but you also have to consider that beginners need a good introduction to the material as well. That's why I was upset with your edits to Final Fantasy/Parties. You need to understand that a good guide writer caters to both the novice as well as the expert players. In fact, the novice players should be your first concern since they're the ones that need the help. Experts are just looking for "food for thought" as they say. Please keep this in mind as you continue to edit guides.

On the subject of editing, I notice that you make a lot of edits to armor and weapon pages. While I can definitely understand and sympathize with wanting to improve upon, or clarify, data presentation in tables, after a while you kind of have to go with one format and stick with it. Please do your best to settle upon one approach that you like best, apply it to a page, and then let it go for a while. Come back to it only if you learn something crucial through work that you do on other guides. Thanks.  Pro cyon  10:37, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Dragon Warrior 3 "bonus dungeon"
The new page is Dragon Warrior III/Sky World. Please migrate your changes there and mark the old page for deletion. Sorry for the edit conflict. -- 16:53, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * While you were commenting on my page I copied the content from /Bonus Dungeon over the top of /Sky World and compared diffs to see that they were the same. Use Reason at the top of a page to mark something (pages, templates, images, etc.) to be deleted. Usually you include a reason, but I am following the issue so it wouldn't be necessary in this case. Looks like we're good now. Resolved. -- 17:25, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Kickle Cubicle
Oh, I see what happened. I didn't mean to roll back your translation, I thought I was just rolling back the edit you made that broke the European release date template. You can't put the date values in any order you like, it has to go eu|year|date, and the date part is optional. Labyrinth for the translation is fine.  Pro cyon  00:54, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Do you want me to set up a set of Japanese pages for you? It seems like you're holding back information because you want to subpage it? -- 17:31, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * What I meant was, it looked like you hadn't created separate pages in the ToC for the Japanese versions of each world. So I was thinking of setting up pages like Kickle Cubicle/Garden Land (Japan) that would sit next to the western Garden Land link in the ToC. Take your time. -- 16:48, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I see, so the plan is to move the japanese island images to each level section, right? And also append an extra note for the Japanese solutions if necessary? -- 20:12, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait, it looks like you already did that... Lol -- 20:13, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * For each world's table of contents/layout, are you planning on creating a custom ToC or should we put the Japanese island number in the header next to the western? -- 21:16, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * After creating a custom ToC for Garden Land, I can see that this is not the way to go. A separate Japanese page for each world would be much better. Trying to align each version's islands doesn't make sense. Although they may look similar, they have different solutions and their order is completely off, especially when some of the islands are on other pages. I'll create the pages in the ToC for now. -- 16:40, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's where I'm confused: if someone is playing the Japanese game from start to finish, is there a fixed order? I understand that they can choose to play any level, but how are the levels ordered on the selection screen? If you beat a level, does it take you to the next one or back to the selection screen (this is info that would go on the Getting Started or Walkthrough page). -- 16:58, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha, ok. =) Take your time. -- 17:12, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The easiest way to deal with this is to simply set up single page for the Japanese version of the game that shows a picture of each level in each world, with a link to the location where the American solution is written (or the full blown solutions when they differ enough to warrant one.) We do something similar for the stage arrangement in Vs. Super Mario Bros..   Pro  cyon  04:35, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I updated the color of the tables on Garden Land, as requested. -- 03:52, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Enhanced sprites
Abacos, TyrannoRanger got the idea for the enhanced sprites from me. If you look at most of the guides for 8-bit games, they're all over the site. We get it, you don't like them. There's nothing to discuss.  Pro cyon  05:23, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls/Soul of Rebirth deletion
Does Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls/Soul of Rebirth need to exist? What is it? -- 22:04, 15 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I assume it is the title of a side quest or alternate campaign. In which case, it doesn't need to exist and the ToC entry can be changed to a bold title or h3. -- 22:05, 15 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, is the Unknown cave spelled that way, or is it "The Unknown Cave" or is it not special at all and none of the words capitalized? -- 22:10, 15 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I think we should not obfuscate the area names to match the storyline progression. That is, we should use the real names. Otherwise, find a different way to organize the walkthrough (are there labeled save points or chapters?). This sort of spoiler is negligible. -- 18:29, 20 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay. I understand. That's fine. This may be the first time we've had a subpage with a lowercase letter after the /. Or wait, are you going to keep it sentence case even though it's a title? -- 03:28, 21 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Those rules sound fine to me. Just make sure the page name/ToC link adheres to the title rule you specified on my talk page. -- 19:42, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

The Allusions Section of Mega Man Zero 2: Ideas
Hrm... fine question. This game has several notable things to point out. I would guess that a nice chunk of the allusions would be in-game references to the Mega Man X series, such as Phoenix Magnion's attack that spawms Vile, Colonel, Bit, and Agile, all from the first four X titles. Another one is at the start of the game- if you bring up the sub-screen, it's a worn-down version of the screen from the previous game, which Ciel later replaces afterwards with a new subscreen device to replace the tattered original. You can also note the mythology of the game. Like for instance, "Yggdrasil" is the biblical Tree of Life, which is that mechanical construct X's immobile body is strapped to near the game's end- a cyber-mechanical tree that creates energy to power and protect Neo Arcadia. The names of the Reploids and Guardians are also based of mythological creatures. You can find the meanings of their names on the Mega Man Knowledge Base by looking up the character pages. Finally, there should also be a small section with trivia so we can alert the reader Hidden Phantom could transform into an enhanced state like the other Guardians. I don't mean to be replying a good month after this message, but I just now caught up to my account since college died down. I'm very pleased to know you've taken interest in my work, and I shall see if we can find screenshots to pad out the text as well. I'll try to pitch in as much as I need to. Thanks! --Superpowered Mario (talk) 05:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Your ideas for the layout are nicely planned. Put it to work when you have time. I'm counting on your help. As for my grammar, I hate it, too. I'm slightly dyslexic, so give me a break, if you would. Notice I tried to use colons and semicolons besides hyphens in the later sections of the guide. I originally made these articles a few years ago in haste, then came back to gloss over the rough edges. However, the walkthrough is so long, it can get repetitive in places. I tried to string together words to avoid making it sound stale, sometimes leaving parts a bit nauseous to read. That's why I withdrew from the article and figured someone else would tidy up my mess if I missed something. The next step is to boot up an emulated copy of the game on VirtualBoyAdvance so I may use the Screen Capture feature and provide the article with a fast supply of screenshots, although we can't have them in excess. Have a safe New Year's! :D --Superpowered Mario (talk) 22:20, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I was going to say something, but then I chose to wait for SPM's response. Criticizing someone over their use of grammar or punctuation is in very poor taste.  Everyone makes mistakes, including you.  As long as another user is trying their best, please keep your comments constructive and save the criticism for when you edit an article.  Thanks.   Pro  cyon  23:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

That's perfectly fine. You were kind enough to apologize. It's a rare sight on the Internet and I appreciate it. Wiki members tend to be much nicer than those snarling menaces on the image boards and meme websites, because we subject our work to peer editing and know how to constructively build something from a joint effort instead of cursing out people for bad posts. For the record, I am a first-year college student who chooses to tinker on this guide when he has the spare time. It's my way to perform a stress release. I did the groundwork two years ago, but came back when I discovered I could use VirtualBoyAdvance to capture unlimited screenshots on a ROM file bootleg of the game. I'll be adding them at my best convenience.

Before I go, I need to voice one suggestion I have for the guide. We should make the Enemy Roster like an interactive list. You can click on a picture with the name of the enemy captioned underneath, and the page automatically jumps to their description and lists a few tips about fighting them. It would be very convenient for the reader, who wouldn't need to scroll through a whopping list of 50+ enemies. However, the textile commands to set up what I just requested are unfamiliar to me. If you or someone else is savvy, we're set. If not, I'll look up an example for future reference. Many thanks as always. --Superpowered Mario (talk) 01:43, 12 January 2013 (UTC)


 * SM: beware of wiki dreams. They are time sinks, for sure! Focus on the goal of the guide. If you feel like you want to take it to the next level (featured, and beyond), then we can put some time into this. As for the monster listing, my preference is to have enemy lists in tables, sorted by stage. Either with headings or a column(s)(i.e. sortable=1) for the stage. But you gave me a cool idea that we've never implemented. Have the boring headings sections down below, but have a duplicate, non-heading, simple, but large, clickable table of all of the enemies (shrunk down of course if their sprites are large). The duplicate here is in the images, not the content. One really cool feature to add to Mega Man guides is the ad-lib style small sprites embedded into the text. Like, "Go around this corner and then you'll see a Gun Volt Mega Man X Enemy Gun Volt.png." I've started this sort of thing on Mega Man X/Highway Stage. It is also very present in Castlevania Circle of the Moon (which is featured). Another way to break up the enemy info is to get a map on the page, and break the map into sections for the guide (e.g. draw lines on the map to make your own sections). Mega Man X2 is a good example of where this is more useful, since there is a map available on each Maverick stage once the head upgrade is acquired. -- 04:37, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Mega Man X5 sequel
Yeah, the Mega Man fandom occasionally still sees arguments about whether or not the post-X5 X games are canon. They bring up things like X6's Zero ending, the orbital elevators in the Zero series, the Z3 bosses having transformation abilities, Model A in ZX Advent, etc. It never really goes anywhere, and it's pretty much all just fanon speculation. Not really an official thing. It's not something we as a reference site should be taking a side on. We should be objective. X6 exists and is the official sequel to X5, in the sense that it was produced and released by Capcom. Zero 1 was meant as the start of a new series set after the X series. That's pretty much all we can say objectively about it, claims about the later X games being non-canon are just something fandom speculates about, not something Capcom's ever stated officially. Wanderer (talk) 20:06, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Regardless of what happened behind-the-scenes, Inafune never actually declared any of those games non-canon. He can't, really, the Mega Man franchise is legally owned by Capcom, not him. Inafune does say that Mega Man Zero was intended not as a "sequel", technically, but as the beginning of a new series. Regardless, we shouldn't be reading too much into those statements or making judgements about game canonicity. That's not our place to say. We're supposed to be focused on game mechanics and strategies and stuff, anyway. Wanderer (talk) 19:08, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Our preceded by and followed by links are chronological by release date and have nothing to do with plot. A note can be made on the Mega Man Zero page, about a suspected connection to one of X5's endings. -- 19:38, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you can verify whether or not the information is true (and I'm pretty sure what you're talking about is correct, because I remember hearing about that elsewhere,) then it's possibly worth mentioning in the introduction page of the guide. Although it would have to be kept brief, two sentences, three at the most.  Definitely don't dive into a discussion about it, just throw it in there as a bit of trivia.  Try to find a reference if you can, but you don't have to do the whole business.  Pro  cyon  05:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Mega Man X
I've forgotten what this discussion was about. Can you link back to it? -- Prod (talk) 07:06, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * We try to go by official documentation of names if ever available. The official japanese website for X7 doesn't have a space in the name (check the title of the webpage).  -- Prod (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I left an additional note on the discussion on Prod's talk page. Check it out. -- 19:25, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * My understanding was that while Mega Man X came to be called X for short, the original intention of the X was to be like a variable. So the X actually indicated some kind of numbering system.  Mega Man x was some game that took place after the main series where n was the last regular Mega Man game, and x = n + 1.  Then Mega Man x2 was the next, and then x3, and so on.  It came after the Mega Man series, but you were never really supposed to know quite when it did because they knew they were going to do more than 6 games.  Although to be consistent, they probably would have had to call the first game Mega Man X1, but I guess that would have been confusing.  Pro  cyon  05:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Ultima IV
I primarily used this website to help me play through the game, but obviously took note of several things I had to discover on my own that weren't very well covered here. I need to go back and get screenshots of some more of the items. I think the site could really use an overworld map and a map of the dungeons. It would take some time, but I could probably get a map of the dungeons put together. Any ideas that might be faster? Preech2671 (talk) 23:12, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Final Fantasy III and Game Category
wouldn't it be easier to just use the "move" (which is right beside edit and history) instead of copying a page and then create a new page and paste it in? And also please check that you add the proper game category for an image. Ultima 4 and Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar are not the same. Thank you for your work. Paco (talk) 15:58, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Heh, seems i don't need to explain it anymore *phew*. ^^ I have fixed some of your images 2 days ago. Paco (talk) 19:18, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Grammar

 * about 20x: I saw that it's on other pages but not on this page, so i just applied it on this page as well to make all pages the sames. I didn't think about grammar at all. If it's one chest, two vases, then yes it should be written as words, but what's in the chest should be written as numbers.
 * Notes: well yes, you can tell me what i did was wrong and why. As for "is" and "are" i sometimes forgot that (well, more like i didn't think much while writing). As for "etage" and "floor" i was thinking which word i should take and so i picked etage.
 * Language: German is my motherlanguage, but i don't think it's allowed to talk in other languages on talk-pages, but i may be wrong. You have to ask the older Admins for that. Paco (talk) 11:33, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Sentence complexity
Hi Abacos. I took a look at your recent edits to Final Fantasy/Weapons, and I felt it necessary to ask you to simplify some of your explanations. While nothing you wrote was technically incorrect or inaccurate, I think you're writing at a level that isn't necessarily accessible to all of our readers. The idea isn't to sound the most intelligent, it's to be the most clear, and to remember that your audience is people of all levels of comprehension. Please keep that in mind. Thanks.  Pro cyon  23:09, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Abacos. I have zero problem with the factual content or subject matter of your edits.  I was only objecting to your presentation.  I'll use a specific example:
 * Daggers are weaker than comparable axes or swords, but they are still a good choice for Thieves and Black Mages/Wizards, although the former can use sme swords and the latter spellcasting staves.
 * In that one sentence, you've attempted to communicate around three or four different concepts. For some people, that's fine, they've got enough concentration and comprehension to follow your thought process all the way through to the end, but for others, that's just too much information packed into one sentence.  It's too hard to follow for some people.  Rather than risk only reaching a portion of your audience, you can ensure reaching everyone by keeping the sentences simpler, without watering down your message.  If I personally were to rewrite your sentence, I would say:
 * While daggers are weaker than some weapons, they are good choices for Thieves and Black Mages. As the game progresses, and they get stronger, you'll want to switch to more powerful weapons.
 * The reader can study up about Thieves and Black Wizards specifically to see what weapons to switch to. In the mean time, the two sentences are clear and easy to follow.  Granted a lot of this is subjective, and I'm trying very hard not to inject my own personal bias into this.  It's just that a lot of your writing contains very complex analysis.  That analysis definitely has a home on this site buy it a) should be as accessible as possible and b) should not replace simpler analysis, but rather complement it.
 * In other words, what you write should be as understandable by your dumbest friend as it should be by your smartest friend.  Pro cyon  04:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Ultima 5 completion
Abacos, I know your attention to detail is on par with the rest of us OCD types, so I will take your initial opinion of a completed guide on face value. It looks like you already changed the completion stage on the main page of the guide. Congratulations! Unfortunately, I do not have the time nor expertise to evaluate the guide. However, I quickly scanned the first couple of pages of the walkthrough. The main thing that is lacking are helpful images. Maybe some day you can play through again or use a completed save file to find maps or something. There is almost an infinite number of improvements you can make to a given guide, so it is usually best to 1) pat yourself on the back and feel good about your contributions and successful completion of a difficult goal, 2) wait for readers to evaluate your work (make sure you put all of the pages of that guide on your watch list and check it once in a while), and 3) spend your time on the guides for games that you really like. Maybe you made this guide just because you like the Ultima name and you saw that our guide wasn't completed. Maybe it's your favorite game. It's up to you to allocate your time. For me, I feel like Chrono Trigger and Mega Man X are "my" best guides. I've spent a lot of time evaluating and collaborating on those works and I think about them once in a while and know that some day I may finish the vastly difficult additional features I dream about. Cheers, mate! -- 03:41, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Of course! Feel free to copy it to your user page. Technically it is more like completion stage 3 due to our image policy, but don't worry about it. I mean, you could argue it the issue, but really it's not a big deal. I'm just glad you finished it! CS4 means it can still be improved a lot. Even featured guides can have more added to them. So, think about going back some day and making it better =) -- 17:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

instead of. You can also insert it using the Return-Button. Thank you. Paco (talk) 12:02, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you also expand Getting Started? It's a Manual to how to play U5, but it's too little info there. Also please use


 * As long as Paco's talking about the Getting Started, I like the "similar games" thing. Way to innovate, dude. ^_^ Congrats on completing your first guide! -- Wario Talk 22:32, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Ultima III: Exodus
Can you check if File:Ultima III Yew Prayer Temple.png can be added and if not then please mark it for deletion. Paco (talk) 15:37, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Ignorance is fun?
If it's too stressful, then you can leave here and set up your own Wiki-Site where you can teach other peoples your special grammar rules. I don't care. Paco (talk) 22:12, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

You're on thin ice
You are seriously one personality conflict away from a temporary ban on editing. I really don't care how important grammar is to you, if you can't handle yourself appropriately and interact with the administrators of the site in a polite and respectful way, you're not welcome to contribute here. We ask very little of editors: accuracy and respect. You're great with the first, and questionable with the second. And you are an adult. I would understand if you were younger and didn't have the ability to distinguish between appropriate and inappropriate communication. But that's not the case, so you have no excuse. Understand this: if a trend has been set across several guides, such as abbreviating Oracle of Ages as "OoA", it does not matter how much it irks you to see it, you have two choices. You can propose that it be changed in a discussion, or you can ignore and let it be wrong. I don't care which one you choose, but being belligerent to any of the staff on the site is not an option. Please keep this in mind from now on.  Pro cyon  01:28, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Abacos, it's nothing about grammar rules. This site isn't the only place that abbreviates Ocarina of Time as "OoT" or Legend of Zelda as "LoZ"; it is done by gamers everywhere. Why? Because otherwise, the abbreviations would be way too general. I mean really, "OT" could be referring to anything. Do we care if they're grammatically correct? No, because we're not writing an essay. By the way, you shouldn't feel too offended by what Paco said. I'm sure it wasn't his intention to insult you; you were just coming off as a bit rude. I think it annoys us all when you say we don't know our grammar because our schools suck. Back to the issue, it's nice that you're trying to change the site for the better, but I have to disagree on this one. That doesn't mean you should give up on this site's grammar entirely, though... -- Wario Talk 15:59, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, wait, wait: I never meant to imply that other thing about schools in English-speaking countries! The fact is: English spelling requires long years to be taught and there's less time left to teach grammar, if compared with other languages. It's not a fault, I'm not blaming anyone, it's a characteristic of the English language. I could say schools in my homecountry suck (can I? it's my homecountry), because we're filled with loads of theory and rules, but we're given little or no practical teachings (and that's the reason I moved abroad to get my Master degree). Anyway, I'm ok with abbreviations now, I said I apologize and accept it. And I'll be careful, very careful about correcting grammar from now on. --Abacos (talk) 17:16, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Your response misses the point. This has nothing to do with your opinion of the usage of grammar on the site.  This has everything to do with the way you relate and communicate with other members of the community, particularly the site admins.  Paco, Moydow, and E-123Wario54 have all earned the trust and respect of this site through their contributions and friendliness.  They do a fairly thankless job, for which they deserve a lot more appreciation, and the last thing I want to see is someone give them an especially hard time over something relatively trivial.  With regard to the difference between the two communications, I had considered warning you when you wrote your initial message to Moydow, but you were a bit more reasonable, and Moydow didn't seem offended.  You were much more rude to Paco, and to be quite frank, I agreed with his measured response to you.  The bottom line is, this is a democratic community driven site.  Your contributions are welcome, but your opinion about problems you find on the site counts as one vote, just like mine.  You are free to open a discussion to raise a concern that you have about abbreviations or grammar rules, but you must abide by the majority vote.  If the majority agrees with you, great.  If not, you must abide by that decision.  What you may not do, is harass other members because you don't like something.   Pro  cyon  02:53, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I understood that, but looking back I saw that my communications problems always involved the use of grammar. That's why I say that I'll take grammar easy from now on, because that was the cause of all. You say grammar is trivial, and indeed the problems always arose because I was the only one that considered it basic instead. I understand my error, I identified the cause of my error, I apologize, I'll behave from now on. --Abacos (talk) 10:14, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * For mediation purposes and for all of us to understand what is going on, what really was the initial issue? On what page was there something that set you off as to a recurring error of, say, Paco's (as I see from a discussion between you and him, not to single him out)? I am interested in the issue and not the bantering, which I agree is annoying and unncessary.
 * If this is all just regarding abbreviation grammar, then yeah I think it's ridiculous to add all possible abbreviations. Not abbreviating "of" and participles may be grammatically correct, but it is not applicable to the context of these games. Product abbreviations are usually done by either 1) the company or 2) the gamers, who, unfortunately, tend to average about 12 years old. So, unless you enjoy arguing with children, you need to realize that grammar is out the door in this case and pretty much everything is arbitrary. Figuring out the arbitrary-ness in all game cases is the tricky part. We have a lot of trouble finding the correct Japanese to English translations for the same reason. Also, a lot of commerce does not follow grammar rules, such as "FiOS" - the abbreviation for "Fiber OpticS" in the telco industry (which I am part of). Please do not waste your time trying to add these little nuances or you will end up just creating unnecessary content that another person can just as easily justify its non-existence, and none of us appear to be willing to stop them, so know that your efforts in this regard will probably be futile. Oh, and that was a good joke. The English-German EU thing, it basically ended up looking and sounding just like German, ahaha. -- 20:21, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, it's exactly as you said: nothing important, but I realized its triviality only after a louder and louder choir of "f***-*ff" (metaphorically speaking) that I really deserved. I was just thinking that almost every administrator I know got involved; now there's only one left out. With all these eyes on me, I cannot make another mistake. And I promise I won't.
 * But are players really that young? That makes me feel a bit weird. I've clearly showed to you all how childish I've been, and I've been the last one who realized it. Time to grow up.
 * Thanks Paco and  Pro cyon  for metaphorically spanking me, because I agree now that it was the right thing to do. Thanks, Wario and Notmyhandle for your indulgence and mediation. --Abacos (talk) 23:14, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Procyon swings the ban hammer, but I'm the pillow that tries to lessen the blow (in some cases). Each of our personalities is an extreme to some extent, and thankfully we balance each other out in the end. Moving on from an issue like this is necessary, otherwise you will quit doing what you're doing because of something so insignificant. It's just not worth the trouble. I ended up in a pickle when I first started here, too. I removed it from my archives, but check it out: here at the bottom. We all have to learn that our actions can be harmful. While I thought that I was being objective and playful, in reality I was being pessimistic, sardonic, and belittling. It's interesting because I carry these traits as a minor part of my personality, and it comes out in my words if I am note careful. You should look at yourself in a similar way. Are you helping or are you just being an elitist prick? Do you have to bite when you teach or can you lend a helping tip without comment? In a way, we must seek to communicate in the manner that we write our guides - bland and brief.


 * Games seem to be targeted at young audiences to get them hooked (not to mention Nintendo's target demographic is clearly like 8-16 years old). As they age only the hard core ones stick with it to an extreme. A lot of casual players will have the most recent system with 1-10 games. I have every console I've ever owned and have like 10-50 games per console. Also, kids are usually pretty poor so it comes down to parenting for who gets to have what. All of the games targeted at adults now are the super casual facebook games. It sucks. I mean, you could argue that "Mature" games are meant for 18+ or something, but they're just a more vulgar clone of some older game (e.g. Gears of War vs. Turok) and thus their content does not reflect gameplay, which is why gamers are playing in the first place. I'm saying that the art and content/story is just for branding/marketing/fan base creation. Plus, when it comes to abbreviations, we usually end up going the route the product typesets it as, so normally you would abbreviate Gears of War as GW or innacurately GoW, but maybe they use GOW. In any case, it doesn't matter, since abbreviations are all ambiguous without context. The only thing we use abbreviations around here for is redirecting pages, and if two games have the same abbreviation then we have to disambiguate it and link to both... -- 18:18, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Advert. and Transparency
I'm using some Firefox Addon like NoScript or Adblock + so there is no such advertisements when i', surfing StrategyWiki. ^^ I think i have edited almost all such edits. Also for Transparency i'm using Gimp for it. That and PNGGauntlet to make the images smaller without qualityloss. Paco (talk) 15:28, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

No ASCII
Please Abacos, for crying out loud, no ASCII maps. I'm not being "Mr. Serious Wiki Leader" here like last time, but come on. We're a wiki. Please replace the ASCII map of the Zelda overworld with a decent jpg or something. Thank you.  Pro cyon  00:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and uploaded one for you, but yes, I think we can afford to go one better than an ASCII map. -- 01:51, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

table sort
Hi Abacos. I disagree with the premise that tables of monsters should be sorted by HP or strength. Players are far more likely to know the name of an enemy than their strength, so sorting a table by strength does not help readers find the correct entry faster. If anything, it slows them down. You should be using the  flag of the prettytable template (e.g.  ).  That way, the table can be sorted by strength if the reader desires.  Pro cyon  20:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Brain Lord CS4
I am upgrading it to completion stage 4, however, please skim all of the pages and find a place where you can add additional images. I.e. what does the main character look like, possibly enemy sprites, etc. Images are the main requirement separating stages 3 and 4. Note that these additions will also help it pursue featured status, so even though I am putting it at CS4, keep in mind that there will always be more to add! Great work, and thank you for your contributions, as usual. -- 20:53, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

MapleStory skill template overhaul vote
Please see Staff lounge. We need your input. -- 16:21, 24 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I didn't log in for a few days, and the survey is closed already. Anyway, I never played MapleStory, I cannot say anything about it. --Abacos (talk) 15:46, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Ultima 5 key mechanics
Hi Abacos, a new user challenged some info you wrote. Please see this diff and this discussion. -- 23:42, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

7th Saga
Hey, thanks for all your great work. I am really glad you are working on this guide. It is a game I tried twice to get into but never could pursue it fully. Hopefully I can use the walkthrough to speed up my progress next time! -- 16:41, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Nahhhh you're great. Retro games are our focus here, as the guides are small enough to be completed by one or two people. Large, modern games are often too large and difficult to fully complete (e.g. MMORPGs). Linear games, platformers, etc. do well here. Anyways, you fit well, and that's what matters. The thank you button is only available on the page history, on the far right of every row next to "undo". You can thank them for specific edits. =) -- 17:54, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to give you a premature congratulations on finishing the 7th Saga guide. You have put in an incredible amount of time on it and I definitely respect you for that. I can't wait to level up the guide once you finish the final sect-stub of the game (in The Final Chapter). Or if it is cathartic for you, feel free to upgrade the level of the guide yourself once the content has been added! -- 17:05, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Wooooo! Congratulations on completing such a guide on your own! That's a major accomplishment! Buckets of cookies for you, sir. -- 00:59, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should nominate it at this time, as it will be overlooked during the current storm of efforts to get Super Mario Bros. 2 featured. After that, then yes that sounds like a good idea. At that time, I will attempt to play through the game using your guide and touch it up where I can. I know it's a long game so I probably won't be able to do it in a timely fashion.
 * Also, I think your cultural assumption is grossly exaggerated. The superstitious 13 means nothing to me. I rarely hear about it, too. But then again, I live in a city with only a few buildings with that many floors, so I have no idea if they have a 13th floor or not. -- 16:22, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Upload versions
Usually you can't see the new version right away due to caching issues, though I have problems with versions sometimes, too, so using a new filename is the best way to go. So, can I delete File:Ultima3 Dungeon difficulty.png? -- 18:46, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Please do. I suspected it could be some problem of "memoire caché", so I let some days elapse, then I re-set my browser: nothing happened, so in the end I uploaded a separate file. --Abacos (talk) 20:08, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Anonymous question
Someone posed a question for you, here. -- 01:55, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Commentary on your edits
Once again, I (Procyon) am taking a very oppositional position and NMH is taking a gentler approach. Either way, I'm still concerned about this, and would like to hear your defense.  Pro cyon  22:07, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Procyon: Since when is "Flee" a useless ability?
Abacos, I'd like you to justify your recent edits concerning the removal of information stating that a Thief has the best chances to run away from a battle out of any class. This kind of edit on your part is very alarming to me, as it smacks of pure personal bias, and not a desire to communicate all useful information to a player. Perhaps you prefer not to run away from battles, but I have countless vivid memories of dragging a half-dead party all the way back from the Marsh Cave to Elfheim, and feeling incredibly grateful that the Thief in my party was successfully escaping battles that would have otherwise destroyed my party. So please defend your position before I roll your edits back. Thank you.  Pro cyon  04:38, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Notmyhandle: FF flee strategy
Please keep in mind that flee strategies are often viable for passing through dungeons. They are often used for under-leveled parties. It is something I usually run into in RPGs because I get tired of grinding, then when I get into a dungeon the goal is to flee from every fight that is possible untilI reach the boss. Depending on the game mechanics, this may or may not be possible in the original FF (I never beat that one, so your call). Later FFs it was more viable with skills like escape and smoke bomb. I just don't want you to remove useful information for players that end up in flee-type situations or prefer playing that way. -- 20:53, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * This was in reference to this diff. -- 20:54, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Abacos replies
I was saving my reply, and my modem "betrayed" me. It's past 2am here now. Can you wait tomorrow for my detailed reply? In short, there were 6 references to the Fleeing ability in the same section, and I thought they were too many for an ability that, indeed, I never used, but since you say it's only me, then I apologize. --Abacos (talk) 01:30, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late answer. Twice I wrote a reply, and twice my modem failed me.


 * The first reason for my edit is that the "flee" ability is quoted six times in the same section, and I thought it was redundant. I admit that I should have left at least one instance of it.


 * However, I've never used it in any video game, for the reasons explained in my tactival observations about fleeing. Indeed, I prefer to reload a saved game and do more grinding instead of fleeing. Like Notmyhandle, I often get bored of grinding, too, but I prefer to stop playing, then resume a few days later. Since you say that many players actually use "Flee" often, then I realize that my thoughts about it express the opinion of a minority only. I apologize for not realizing it before.


 * In my humble opinion, I don't think the main purpose of the Thief is to flee. I condider it as a weak class (few weapons, light armor, no magic) that later becomes a powerhouse Ninja (almost all weapons, almost all armors, lots of black spells), in the same way as the Jester in Dragon Warrior 3 becomes a Sage.


 * Can I edit the section again and write an intermediate version? --Abacos (talk) 11:35, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, the only solution to this problem is a holistic grouping of varying strategies. Noting flee's usefulness in certain situations is necessary for the guide. -- 17:43, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Agreed, the new write up is much better. Look, I'm all for eliminating cruft or redundancy, so if you felt that Fleeing was mentioned too often, it's fine to tone it back.  But please Abacos, remember that as a collaborative site, we have to offer a plurality of strategies when there is more than one to offer.  Your target audience isn't just people who play like you.  It's also people who have completely different play styles, we cater to everyone.  Thank you for fixing up the class and party descriptions, I appreciate it.   Pro  cyon  04:27, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Companies
Please use the preload button for companies. It includes the infobox. Also, we don't make company specific series' templates, because that's not a series, that's what the company made. If they are actually sequels then they can be in the same series. -- 04:39, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Mystic Ark series
The two Mystic Ark games are definitely in a series, as they are sequel by title and developer. However, the first two games have no direct connection to these, do they? I see the names and sprites that are similar across the games, but do they reference the same world? Same places? Same lore? Are there any official explanations to support your claim? In similar situations, we create a series template for, say, Mystic Ark, and then have the first two games as a second line under "Related titles" or something like that, but this usually only occurs if any of my questions could be answered for these games. It would also be obvious if they shared the same titles. I think that the similarities occurred because a few of the developers really wanted to put in those common elements as signatures of their work, or they just had no original ideas, or each release was a remake of the game before it original. None of these facts justify claiming that they are in a series together. -- 23:10, 23 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Because of their minor ties, I am happy to satisfy you by allowing separate lines on the Mystic Ark series template, as I have added. -- 17:47, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Note that the Category:Mystic Ark series category would be a great place to precisely and accurately document these connections to justify the way we have connected the guides here. Oh, and the preceded by and followed by parameters of infoboxes are only supposed to show the previous or next title (not the entire series in either direction; the series template helps readers see that). -- 17:54, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

From now on...
Abacos, before you start making a site-sweeping change, such as changing the genre categories of several games, I would like for you to propose the change in the Staff lounge so that the change can first be discussed and then approved before you proceed with the changes. Failure to comply with this request will result in your changes being reverted. Thank you.  Pro cyon  14:17, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Spambots
I guess you don't watch the recent change log too frequently. We've been under a steady (5~7 per day) stream of spambot attacks. As our site popularity grows, more spammers include our URL in lists that automated programs parse and utilize to try and drop spam links. The bots analyze the site, and try to identify pages that might have a low amount of traffic so that they can try to drop their link in so that no one notices. However, our captcha system doesn't allow anonymous users to drop links without picking out the cats from the dogs, something bots can't do. So instead of leaving a link behind, they just leave garbage behind. Our admins do an excellent job of identifying spam, reverting it, and blocking the IP from which they came. There's no reason to be alarmed, it definitely isn't a personal attack on you, it was done by an algorithm, not a person.  Pro cyon  17:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Please do not specify 256px thumbnail size
Default thumbnail size is 250px. You may alter your user preferences and change the default to 256px if that is your preference. Some viewers specify 300+px for their thumbnails. -- 17:02, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I specified the thumbnail size equal to the images size. This way, the images can be seen in full scale instead of being shrinked, with loss of detail. Same for small images: I specify their size as an integer multiplier, to limit blurrying images (e.g. if a sprite is 10px size and I want it bigger, I'll set it to 20px (2x) or 30 px (3x), but not to 12px (1.2x) or 23px (2.3x) ). If I set my default thumbnail size to 256px, then images of a different size would suffer a loss of resolution. By the way, the default thumbnail size I have always seen was definitely less than 200px. I didn't know it could be adjusted by the user. Thanks. --Abacos (talk) 10:26, 28 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I would like to rescind my initial comment. The situation has changed, so it may be time for a new policy. For the last six years, I have been editing here using, essentially (we had a custom skin when I started here but it was basically a better look version of Monobook), the Monobook skin. In the last 1-2 years, when Dolphin was acquired, I did not switch because of the tiny resolution it forces users to. I now use Dolphin, due to editing conflicts primarily caused by me. The new policy is to focus on making guides look good in Dolphin; that way it looks good to people not logged in (which is the majority of our viewers). So, since the resolution is maxed out at ~800px wide for content, we may want to ignore user preferences for thumbnail size and say that the correctly scaled images is a better solution. I verified that the 250px width default still exists in Dolphin, as can be seen here: Chrono Trigger/The Millennial Fair. However, many of these screenshots could be forced to 256px to improve the image quality oh so slightly without affecting the overall look in Dolphin. However, if we say that user preference thumbnail size is our focus, then we can't really control the look of the content. I feel like we should, so we can have better images and focus on defining the look of each page. @: thoughts? -- 16:02, 28 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, for one thing, there's a much easier solution to Abacos' problem. Abacos, if you want screenshots to show up at a 1:1 ratio, stop using "thumb", and use "frame" instead.  Then the size issue is moot.  And I agree, screenshots of any system prior to the PlayStation should generally be shown at 1:1 resolution.  So switch all of your thumbs to frames.  NMH, the concern with scaling images has less to do with user's screen resolution and more to do with the degree to which it taxes the server.  In general, images should be unscaled unless it can't be avoided (e.g. large maps, large artwork, etc.)  However, when a thumbnail makes more sense, it's kind of the authors discretion whether they want to enforce a specific size or not.  That being said, the author should be able to defend their decision, or an admin may proceed to remove the size parameter.  So, there's flexibility on both the user's side and the admin's side.   Pro  cyon  02:07, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * One of the first places the default thumbnail size came up was when a user with worse eyesight has his default thumbnails set larger. According to MW:Manual:$wgDefaultUserOptions, the default is actually 180px, much different than the 250px mentioned above. I wouldn't worry too much about thumbnailing load, since they're only generated once and then the CDN takes over (except for the broken thumbnails...).  However, having non-integer scaling factors does make thumbnails look bad.  I would suggest that thumbnails should be left at default size (whatever the user chooses) but if you want you can use frame to keep it at original size. Though, note that captions look different in both. -- Prod (talk) 05:18, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

That's fine with me. I didn't know "frame", I tipically spend more time adding content, while reading manuals and tutorials mostly when I meet a issue. I'll go through all of The 7th Saga guide, for a start (I dream someday I will get that guide to Completion Stage 5). --Abacos (talk) 12:34, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Table of Contents
If you would use the Preload buttons, you would follow the proper syntax for table of contents. That is, you must use the full game name. If you use "..", when on the main page there is nothing above the main game page, so it gives an error. Correct syntax is Mega Man Xtreme/Page title. --


 * That's it! I wrote the TC on a separate computer (not connected to internet), and then I copied and pasted the TC. If I was online, I would have used the preload buttons for sure. --Abacos (talk) 19:48, 20 June 2014 (UTC)


 * P.S.: You forgot to a "/nowiki" above there. It took me a bit to find out the error, but I learned a new function :-) --Abacos (talk) 20:30, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Mega Man Xtreme Hadouken and Shouryuken spellings
Unless it says "Hadou-ken" and "Shouryu-ken" in-game, please do not use hyphens. --


 * But in this specific case, the game does use hypenations. Evidence: a Youtube video --Abacos (talk) 19:48, 20 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for finding evidence. -- 21:47, 20 June 2014 (UTC)


 * To be honest with you, that's still not good enough for me. Those hyphens are the result of a lazy localization team, they're still not correct.  You are transliterating 昇龍拳 (Shōryūken) and 波動拳 (Hadōken) into English.  Adding hyphen is incorrect, and following an incorrect example is still incorrect.  At best, the correct thing would be to refer to them throughout the guide without the hyphen, while mentioning at the first occurrence that the game incorrectly refers to them with a hyphen.   Pro  cyon  05:15, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

I like Procyon's approach. I'll fix the hyenations straight away. I already fixed a few little English errors from Mega Man Xtreme in the StrategyWiki guide, but my knowledge of Japanese is way too limited.

I take this opportunity to point out a few things that I don't like (and none of my school teachers would, either) and that I always fix whenever I see them:
 * when a single person is referred to as "they", because it should be a singular "he or she";
 * when someone uses the hypenations as if they were punctuation marks, and I replace with the appropriate punctuation; also, in many games I saw the ellipsis "..." used instead of column ":".
 * when someone mixes the verb "to be" (you're, he's, it's, they're) with possessive adjectives (your, his, her, its, their) or with adverbs of location (here, there).

These are always minor changes, of course, but they are grammar mistakes, not typos. I fixed so many of those minor errors, that I felt the need to state it clearly once and for all. Now let's forget about it and stick back to video games. I suppose these minor corrections of mine are harmless. --Abacos (talk) 20:07, 21 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I recently looked up the hyphens as punctuation issue, but the first references I looked over were stating that it was okay to use them like parentheses or commas. Though the grammatical difference between a comma and inline parentheses is not clear to me. I do not have an MLA handbook on hand to look it up. I'm sure there is some official source somewhere online, but I don't know it. And yes, they are harmless. Keep in mind that after you make an edit, it is not the "final draft". People will come by and add little annoyances. The problem with cleaning them up is you take away that person's voice, and thus snuff their spirit to continue to edit here. There is a fine line between perfection and tolerance, and we should side with tolerance because readers are quite capable of overcoming grammar and spelling errors. Procyon, I knew you would be offended by an incorrectly spelled hadouken :P I think noting the spelling error in the walkthrough, as well as on the weapons page is necessary, as you suggested. -- 20:58, 21 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I checked my old school books (I usually say: internet holds no degree), and they specify clearly the separate field of use of every punctuation mark. Hypenations are not listed, therefore they are not considered punctuation marks. Indeed, English is not my mother language, but none of my English teachers ever mentioned hypenations, either. Whatever! Languages are in continuous evolution: from Latin to French, from Saxon to English, etc. I fix those minor things for my reading pleasure, but I won't get fuzzy about them, don't worry. --Abacos (talk) 21:29, 21 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Academia may try to ignore it, but I have seen hyphens used to break up text for as long as I can remember. Albeit occasionally. Language evolves with what is commonly understood, not what is mandated in a book. For cleanup's sake, I would say that any featured guide should require non-hyphenated punctuation. If a new editor comes in and uses it, I think it's fine if we are welcoming to their content at least for a while. 90% of new editors only stick around until they have "dumped" their ideas and content. I would hate to interrupt that process by saying "sorry, this is how we do it here," which can be offensive. -- 22:30, 21 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Just to chime in, I don't think any of the fixes that Abacos mentioned above snuff out the spirit of the edit. Snuff out the spirit of an edit would be changing the tone of a sentence.  For example, changing something like, "it's really fun to do such and such!" to "Many people enjoy doing such and such." snuffs out the spirit of the edit.  In general, I would hope that no one would get offended or bent out of shape by someone correcting a grammatical mistake.  Changing "when the enemy appears, they like to jump," to "when the enemy appears, [he/it] likes to jump," really doesn't change the spirit of the edit, it just corrects something in such a way as to make it more understandable.  Regarding hyphenations, that's a non-issue in my book.  They're supposed to be used as an interruption or extention of a thought, as in "Make sure you have your sword equipped when you go to the next room—the boss inside will destroy you if you don't."  Some people like them, some people don't.  There's no hard and fast rule about them, I would replace them unless the thought being communicated is unclear.   Pro  cyon  17:30, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I missed this post for almost two years. I agree that we are talking about secondary stuff. Still, in my book the hypenation is just a placeholder for proper punctuation marks (usually colons, brackets, ellipsis, and occasionally commas). Even in your last example, I am 100% sure that it should be written this way: "Make sure you have your sword equipped when you go to the next room: the boss inside will destroy you if you don't". There was a light-hearted example I was shown in primary school, and it shows how punctuation can be relevant:
 * "The teacher", says the director, "is an ignorant".
 * The teacher says: "The director is an ignorant".

By the way, this is a website about video games, not about grammar. ---Abacos (talk) 13:26, 22 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but we're also a site about being able to communicate clearly with our readers. If we use the wrong punctuation, it can be difficult for our users to understand what we are trying to tell them.  I would argue that your example:
 * "Make sure you have your sword equipped when you go to the next room: the boss inside will destroy you if you don't"
 * is 100% wrong. That's not how colons are used.  Colons are used to separate two clauses where the second one provides an example or demonstration of the first clause, not a defense of it.  So the proper use of a colon would be as follows:
 * "To ensure that the boss does not destroy you, you must take the following step: make sure your sword is equipped when you enter the room."
 * That is a proper use of a colon. A hyphen is correct in the first example, where two clauses are directly related, and the second clause is expanding upon or defending the statement in the first clause.  This site does a better job explaining it than I can: http://www.pugetsound.edu/academics/academic-resources/cwlt/writing-advisor-schedule/writing-resources/colon-and-dashes/  Pro  cyon  14:23, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

MMX3 Bit Byte and Vile "original" names
What do you mean by "original" names? Are you referring to transliterated Japanese names? The U.S. version was released first. If Japanese, can you acquire the actual Japanese characters for us and not the romaji? -- 17:05, 25 June 2014 (UTC) Furthermore, I saw your edit to the TC. Actually, I'd keep a single link on the TC because Bit & Byte can appear in random stages, although they do so more often on the 3rd and 6th ones. Also: I'm not sure that multiple links to the same page in the TC is a good idea; I thought it was, then I changed my mind; yes, I cannot make up my mind. --Abacos (talk) 14:22, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * According to a quick web search I just did, the Japanese version was relesed in December, and the localized versions the next January. Anyway, I think the original names are the Japanese ones also because the game was made by Japanese people. I added the Japanese characters, as you requested.
 * It's been a while since I played through that game, so you'll have to nudge it, but remember that the table of contents is designed in a linear fashion. If the guide is followed in a particular way, then Bit/Byte's appearance will not be random. However, the final revision of the ToC should not have bit/byte/vile listed in any way. Instead, they should be integrated into a particular page of the walkthrough and placed under a level 2 header (==). The boss index page will need to link to those sections. -- 16:27, 1 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The extra info about when they can be fought and where and whatnot should be on the boss index page (the bit/byte/vile page should be merged into that). -- 16:27, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Spelling issue on your triangle diagram
"Strenght" is at the bottom left in File:Ultima5 RPGtriangle.PNG. -- 15:45, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Nobody is perfect... Thanks for the errata corrige! I'll fix it. --Abacos (talk) 16:43, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Link Between Worlds title
I'm not going to get into an argument with you over this, I'm simply going to tell you: No matter how wrong it is to you to capitalize the word "between" in a title, every single site on the internet, including Nintendo's own site, spells Between with a capital B, and I have no interest in SW being the only site in the world that gets it "correct" if it means we're different from everyone else. It's just going to have to be wrong. If you can convince Nintendo to change it to a lower-case b, then you can change it here.  Pro cyon  01:33, 2 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Democracy = majority wins. If I am minority, I say my opinion, but then I follow majority. That title capitalization is fine by me, then :-) --Abacos (talk) 12:28, 2 October 2014 (UTC)


 * P.S.: Let me say that I acted according to what you wrote few months ago on this same talk page: Those hyphens are the result of a lazy localization team, they're still not correct. You are transliterating 昇龍拳 (Shōryūken) and 波動拳 (Hadōken) into English. Adding hyphen is incorrect, and following an incorrect example is still incorrect . Anyway, you told me to capitalize "Between" in titles and added an explanation, so I will follow it. It is less than a letter, it's just a capitalization. --Abacos (talk) 13:05, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Ogre Battle maps
I think you might be better off using the maps from here as a base. They do not contain any watermark or copyright of the person who ripped them (Tropicon), so they should be fair game for anyone to use. If you want, you can credit Tropicon in the upload description. I think they will aid players better than the Mode 7 view you are using. Just a suggestion.  Pro cyon  18:23, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * They are beautiful maps indeed. Thanks. --Abacos (talk) 21:10, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Series lists ordered by story chronology

 * ''about: Category:Seiken Densetsu

Is there a reason for this type of setup? We prefer chronological order for all series lists. Also the "N." column is, as usual, ambiguous. The series template needs to be updated in conjunction to make sense. E.g. I have no objective rationale for why Legend of Mana does not appear before Dawn of Mana in the series nav. Please put a bold label at the front indicating "series 1" or "series 2" or "spinoff" or "non-canonical". World of Mana, since you identified it as such and it may be an official title, should likely be split off into its sub-category, Category:World of Mana with its own series template. -- 17:16, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm updating the table so that default sorting is by release year. I'm also specifying what is "N." about, in order to remove ambiguity. I would not split the World of Mana from the other titles: it was just a commercial process, not a sub-series; also, a World of Mana sub-page would include Seiken Densetsu 4, but not the first three. I am for a template that simply divides numbered titles from unnumbered ones. --Abacos (talk) 17:34, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Category:Quintet
I just wanted to thank you for expanding this work. I realized from your categorization that Quintet has produced several of my favorite games, and now I look forward to tackling Terranigma at some point to continue my way through that loosely tied series. -- 02:00, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Glad to be of help. --Abacos (talk) 13:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Image categorisation
When uploading images, please make sure to categorise them using the correct image categories and the guide-specific category, i.e.  Category:Game Name images. Please see our image policy for more details. Thanks for helping to keep our images neat! — 18:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I was sure I did it... Sorry for the mistake, I am going to fix it right now! --Abacos (talk) 13:02, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Everything fixed. Thanks for pointing out the mistake. --Abacos (talk) 13:40, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Merging pages
Please be specific in your deletion requests as to what page the content has been moved to. E.g. you requested a couple of pages to delete content, and yes, as I am patrolling a chronological log of changes you made I can see where you moved the content to. However, if someone goes back to one of the deleted pages they will not know where it was moved to. E.g. I deleted BS The Legend of Zelda/Map 2/Overworld part 8 for you. Thanks for your help! -- 23:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned and unused images
Hi Abacos, I see you replaced this GIF with a scalable PNG: File:Final Fantasy III Ancients Labrinth.gif. Please mark unused files with reason when you are done with them so admin can quickly handle the cleanup. Thank you. -- 19:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Writing quality
Hi Abacos. I'm concerned with the recent update you made to the Eggerland category. Phases like "On another note," and "considered a better deal" aren't really appropriate for guide content. Both of these are very casual styles of writing, and the better deal remark is conjecture. If one title is better than another, explain why and don't expect the user to take your word for it. Additionally, you made the comparison between the MSX and FDS version of Eggerland twice, and this is unnecessary. Please clean up and formalize your edits to the page. Thank you.  Pro cyon  20:48, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Procyon. Actually, I just copied and pasted existing text without adding or removing anything. My real edits were in the table and the template. But I can edit the text following your suggestions, no problem. --Abacos (talk) 13:31, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * You know, you're right. I misinterpreted the edit difference.  I apologize.  But yes, if you rearrange the text for clarity, feel free to edit it as well and tighten up the presentation.  Thanks.   Pro  cyon  13:40, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Eggerland series: edited already. You know, it happened already that I moved text around (simply trying to make everything more clear), but then I was blamed for the contents that were already there. But in truth, I did not remove any text for fear of being blamed for that instead! :-D :-D :-D Well, these misunderstandings are easily solved :-) --Abacos (talk) 13:58, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Lolo suggestion
Hi Abacos. I think that including the old Eggerland images in the Adventure of Lolo guides makes the page look a little confusing and cluttered. I like the idea of pointing the user back to the original inspiration of the maze if they're curious to see it, but I would include it as a link at the bottom of the solution description, and let the user navigate to that page to see the original maze, instead of adding another image that the reader may not really be interested in. Readers get frustrated if their attention is drawn to something that they consider to be irrelevant to their purpose.  Pro cyon  15:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I see. Having recently learned that Adventures of Lolo is a compilation of stages from previous titles in the series, I was curious about the comparison. Instead, how about a page in the appendix of Adventures of Lolo with all the links and/or screenshots of the original and the remade stages? Something like the one below (because I am addicted to tables, as you know). --Abacos (talk) 15:25, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


 * That would be cool. As long as it's not in the face of reader's who are simply looking for the solution to the room.  There are similar relationships between Lolo and some of the other Eggerland games.   Pro  cyon  18:57, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't want to stymie your creative inertia, Abacos, but a comparison page like that is not useful for strategy or pointing out differences in gameplay (we do version comparisons when there are things our guide readers should be aware of). As trivia, it would be better represented in a sentence for that room. E.g. "This room's layout is a copy of..." and link directly to the first guide's section for the copied room. -- 05:45, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

I wrote many links already. I will add more. Please let the page exist until all the links are done: it works as a complete list of the links to be done. --Abacos (talk) 20:07, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I honestly don't mind having a page like the one that Abacos set up. It doesn't get in the way of users who are purely looking for a strategy on how to complete a room, but it does provide some historical context for people who are into that sort of thing (like me.)  Priority number 1 is to provide strategies for players.  Priority number 2 is to provide other factual information about a game as long as it doesn't interfere too much with priority 1, which is what you've done.  Will a lot of people appreciate the page?  Probably not, but some will.  Does it hurt us to have it?  No, especially since it's not using any unique images that appear nowhere else on the site.   Pro  cyon  23:38, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Castlevania enemies
Abacos, I'm sorry, but I simply don't see the point in presenting the enemies in Castlevania as a table. It serves no beneficial purpose to the reader, and it only ends up making the page more complicated than necessary. Castlevania isn't a game where players randomly encounter enemies like an RPG, and therefore are concerned with the statistical attributes of the enemy they are facing in order to make strategic decisions. Castlevania is an action game where the locations of a majority of the enemies are fixed and the player is concerned with managing the amount of threat present on the screen at any one time. Statistical comparison of enemies in those cases are far less worthwhile than in an RPG.  Pro cyon  18:28, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * No problem. I just wanted to try it out. I was even tempted to write "rollback if you don't like it" in the changes summary. I see your point, thanks for the explanation. --Abacos (talk) 08:16, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The last time I received a message was four months ago. Am I working on a guide (Ultima 6) nobody cares about? --Abacos (talk) 08:20, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * My original idea was that I disagree with the alphabetical order of the names. Since the invention of "Ctrl+F", the alphabetical order serves no purpose and conveys no information. But we talked about this long ago, I remembered just now. No problem and sorry for the trouble. --Abacos (talk) 08:46, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Two responses: Don't interpret the lack of communication as no one caring about what you're working on. It's simply that you are currently the site's foremost expert on the Ultima games, and no one else really knows enough about them to comment on your work.  You've been with the site for quite a while now, and we trust you know what makes for good content by now.  The quality of your RPG guides is usually quite high, so it's more a matter of letting experts be experts and not getting in your way.  As for the order in which Castlevania's enemies are present, I realize that alphabetical order is arbitrary, but a majority of readers (myself included) are either too lazy to bother with Ctrl-F, and would simply prefer to scroll to the desired description, or are on tablets or phones where the find text feature is far less accessible.  Therefore, even though alphabetical ordering isn't informative, it definitely helps viewers find what they're looking for with minimal effort.   Pro  cyon  19:05, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Eggerland stuff
Hi Abacos. I'm not 100% cool with the changes, but run with it and let's see how it turns out. In general, if the primary author of a finished guide is present and active on the site, it's a good idea to run your changes by him/her first and waiting for some feedback before plowing right through them. It's not a site rule, it's just etiquette. I would have appreciated a chance to respond. But you've already started, so go for it, and we'll judge it on the finished product.  Pro cyon  13:21, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I misunderstood, I thought you were applying these changes directly to the existing pages in the guide. Thanks for doing it in this format first.  So far, it looks good, I have to admit it does make a little more sense.  I guess all I'd want somewhere in the guide, maybe on the walkthrough page, is a map of the grid which links to each solution.  It would take a little bit of work, based on how you're doing it, but it would help someone who doesn't know precisely what key or object they're after, but know what room on the map they're trying to solve.  I don't want to break that mechanism to find a solution based on location.   Pro  cyon  23:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey, the alterations that you did to that Eggerland guide look good. I'm a little concerned about the length of some of those pages though, but it's not really a big deal.  The map on the walkthrough is really nice, I'm just concerned that people won't really know how to find the room they're looking for simply by looking at the Table of Contents.  Perhaps the map needs to put on its own page and labeled as such in the ToC, just to make it very explicit that that is where you go if you don't know what chapter to read, and you want to jump right to the room you're looking for.  Clear navigation is the key to making that guide useful.  Other than that, the presentation is really nice, and you broke it down into clear logical branches.  I like the maps at the top of each page, they do a good job illustrating what the page is for.   Pro  cyon  23:48, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Guide completion
Hi Abacos. To get straight to the heart of your question, I know that you cite the MM1 guide as something you don't wish to replicate, but that guide is, in fact, complete. It's not a matter of elaborating on each and every enemy that appears, I agree that that is incredibly unhelpful to a reader (no one can hold that granularity of information in their head while they play.) But a good compromise measure is to explain the highlights of what a player can expect throughout the stage. I think that the Mega Man guide (along with the Castlevania and Super Mario Bros. guides) find a good medium between high-level overview and trying to describe each and every second of play-through (something that another frequent editor on the site does that I'm not a fan of...).

In particular, completed guides should not have external links to other sites for information (so linking to vgmaps will not complete the guide), nor should it reference graphic information from related games (so no enemy images from MMII or MMIII). The guide should be completely self-contained on the site, referencing only its own game's material. On a personal note, I'm slated to work on Mega Man 2 after I finish Final Fantasy II, but FF2 is taking a while, so maybe I'll take a break from that and switch to MM2.  Pro cyon  12:33, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * No problem. I want to be clear that I'm not equating "incomplete" with "wrong".  I don't want you to think that I'm claiming anything you did in the Mega Man 3 guide was wrong, because it wasn't.  It's not just complete under the standards mentioned above.  I'd also like to point out that I think your work on the Ultima guides is exemplary.  At least one of those guides could be nominated for featured guide status (although we don't have the active voting community that we used to regretably.)  And as much as I was opposed to it, your modifications to the Eggerland Meikyuu no Fukkatsu guide turned out terrific.


 * The Mega Man series holds a special place in my heart, so if you want to collaborate on it, that's cool. If you'd rather work on it solo, I will back off until you're done with it.  I could take care of the maps for you, but if they are labeled maps (with the A, B, C, etc. marks) then we'd have to coordinate on where we both felt those labels should go...  Or I could lay the groundwork, and you could follow up.  What's your preference?   Pro  cyon  16:02, 9 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey, welcome back, and happy new year to you as well. With respect to making your Ultima guide featured, it's not entirely up to me, we have a formal voting process for it.  The problem is, we don't have quite the number of active voting users that we used to, but you could always campaign for votes :)  You could add a nomination for one of your guides here (Wow, I haven't looked at that page in a while, I think I need to clean it up...)  As for Mega Man 3, I won't really be getting around to that for a long time I think.  I just finished working on the Mega Man 2 guide, you could take a look and see how that turned out if you want.  I understand what you're saying about older games, but my perspective is we should never assume that all players know things about a game.  There may be a ten year old child out there who downloaded the Mega Man Legacy Collection and is playing these games for the first time in their life.  That's who I like to keep in mind when I write guides.  Anyway, just my two cents.  If you put one of your Ultima guides up for a nomination, count on my support.   Pro  cyon  03:24, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Oracle of Seasons page density
Hey Abacos. I'm not sure that merging the pages in Oracle of Seasons is producing a better result than the way it looked before. I feel like you're packing too much info on each page, especially considering the number of images that each page contains. I'm all for images, I promote their use heavily, but when there's so many to look at, it can start to look and feel a little cluttered. That on top of how much of the walkthrough you're trying to pack in each page, makes me think they were better off separated... Thoughts?  Pro cyon  14:57, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know you weren't the original author of most of that content. You have my trust.  Speaking of trust, how would you feel about being nominated for an admin position?   Pro  cyon  15:26, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, that was no fun. Necessary, but no fun.  111 images deleted.  Let me know if I missed any.  Are there gonna be more? :/   Pro  cyon  02:14, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Are the pages merged like that since those are official chapter numbers, or was it for some other reason? -- Prod (talk) 08:41, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Congratulations, you have been nominated
Hi Abacos. Please see this page for your nomination. You must complete the three questions. We're blowing the dust off this process as it hasn't been used in an unfortunate amount of time. But hopefully others will notice it and there will be enough participation to get a consensus. That being said, don't be hurt if there's not a lot of activity, we just don't have the same user base we had when we authored the process almost ten years ago...  Pro cyon  20:41, 22 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Hey, so, two things. One, it's a little hard to ask people to participate in the nomination process if the nominee hasn't participated, so please, if you're still interested in the position, fill out your questionaire when you get the chance.  Two, I just finished up the Walkthrouh for Final Fantasy II.  I know you started that one off, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look at it, and see if there isn't anywhere where you thought it could be improved.  To truly complete the guide, I'd need to do a bestiary, and I'm just not sure if I'm fully interested in doing one.  Let me know what you think.  Thanks.   Pro  cyon  01:53, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Granted! -- Prod (talk) 22:00, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Congrats :)  Pro  cyon  22:01, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night/Slogra & Gaibon
This page isn't linked from anywhere. If needed, can you add it to the ToC? -- Prod (talk) 22:11, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Eggerland Meikyuu no Fukkatsu
I noticed that you moved the guide around quite a bit and then marked the old pages for deletion. Unfortunately, if we just delete all the pages, we'd lose all the edit history of the people who contributed to those other pages. I'll take care of this guide, but in the future, please make sure that all the previous editors are represented in the new pages that contain old content. -- Prod (talk) 00:42, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * This is now done :)! -- Prod (talk) 00:15, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Staff lounge
There are a few discussion going on in the staff lounge. Please provide your input if interested. -- Prod (talk) 02:02, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Series standardization
Where do the Category:Dragon Slayer numbers come from, are they part of the actual titles? Also, please use the icon template, instead of the rd related templates. I don't want to mix their use cases. Is there a reason for the line break in Dragon Slayer, or just for styling? -- Prod (talk) 15:23, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * globe should work. I'd suggest keeping the series templates simpler by having the link text the same as the game name. And having a line break in the template doesn't really provide any information and breaks consistency with other series templates. -- Prod (talk) 20:30, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Can you bring up a discussion about this standardization on the staff lounge? I think it would be good to have other editors provide input. -- Prod (talk) 04:30, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Deleting pages
Please make sure to mention previous editors when moving content from one page to another, especially if the source page is going to be deleted. -- Prod (talk) 22:59, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Mega Man guides
I don't really like the new "Weapons and Bosses" pages, where everything is on the same page. I feel there's too much information that doesn't really need to be together. Ideally, the bosses should be incorporated into their stages in the guide. However, the same bosses are encountered multiple times, so having their own page makes sense. Although each weapon is associated with a boss, having them on the same page only confuses the purpose of the page. -- Prod (talk) 02:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Not to pile on, but I agree with Prod on this one. I also feel that the way you set the new page up is too spoiler-intensive.  The guide is definitely in need of cleaning up, and you're on the right track, but I would go with a more granular approach to presenting the information and divide it up so players can more easily find the specific information they're looking for, without the potential for finding out more than they wanted.  Our readers shouldn't be forced to try and ignore a weapon damage chart when they visit the page to find out more about a particular boss.  Pro  cyon  02:20, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Prod. I saw the {subpage} tab you added to the category. Indeed, all information about is already on its own page, while the categories  and  are empty for the moment; therefore, I'd leave the information about the latter two on the parent category page, for the time being. How about it? ---Abacos (talk) 15:25, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If such detailed content is ready, might as well set up the category pages, even if the specific guides aren't ready. Hopefully, it'll prompt someone to start the guides. -- Prod (talk) 21:40, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Devil Summoner and Devil Survivor have 4 games each. It seems reasonable to split them off to their own series pages. -- Prod (talk) 13:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Overly complicated pages.
Hi Abacos. I understand that you like to do deep mathematical analysis in games, but please be very careful not to make some pages more complicated than necessary, or you risk reducing the usefulness of the page altogether. Dragon Warrior III/Player classes‎‎ and Dragon Warrior III/Personality are definitely in danger of reaching that state.

Additionally, please remain aware of the purpose of some pages, and don't bury the most desired content of that page below secondary analysis, as you did with Dragon Warrior III/Experience chart. I don't want some reader to arrive on the page and think to themselves, "Why do I have to read past all this stuff when all I want to know is how many experience points my Cleric needs to reach the next level?"

Always remain conscious of your audience and our user base. Thank you.  Pro cyon  15:30, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You're right. I'll try to simplify the pages you noted. Hmmm... maybe the book I'm reading these days is affecting my Strategywiki contributions... it's titled "Linear Algebra and Geometry"... --Abacos (talk) 18:34, 5 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I should add that on a personal note, I think the graphs you made for DQ3 are amazing, and they definitely add value to the site. I'm sure other readers will enjoy them too.   Pro  cyon  01:33, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Really? I thought they were very basic graphs. All I did was putting the first table on the OpenOffice spreadsheet, and made just one subtraction or one division to create the subsequent three. The description about how to make each one of them is just one line long. I did the same graphs for many games on StrategyWiki, each one takes just a few minutes ( in case you didn't know: OpenOffice is a freeware program, similar but far more efficient than MS-Office; no advertising! :P). A few years ago, I put far more thought in this diagram for Ultima 3 and this graph for Dragon Quest 4. --Abacos (talk) 08:45, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Japanese vs English titles
Hi Abacos. I just wanted to drop a note about the subject that you touched upon on Hussein Sonic's page. The fact is that a long time ago, it was decided that English titles should take preference over Japanese titles as long as a game was actually published with the English title. What happened in Castlevania: Rondo of Blood's case was that the game was finally released in English with that title on the Wii Virtual Console. So even the wp:Castlevania: Rondo of Blood page on Wikipedia switched over to the title. A more infamous example of this is the original Mother being renamed to wp:Earthbound Zero, which we haven't properly switched over to. There was a huge fight about that one on Wikipedia. I checked to see what WP had done about Rondo of Blood and when I saw they used the English title, I figured we should too, so I left Hussein Sonic's edit alone. Any policy is debatable and up for discussion if you feel strongly about it. It's just that certain subjects result in never-ending battles between two even sides, and usually result in stalemates. Let me know what you think.  Pro cyon  21:25, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Adding new section to TOC
Hi Abacos. Thank you for welcoming me to the site. I plan to add a completely new section to the but don't know how. I've read manuals and tried to edit the TOC page but couldn't find how to do this. Please help. Thank you.

--Pussy (talk) 16:15, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Never mind. I found it. Sometimes if I navigate to the game TOC and click edit it gives me only game name reference line and that's it. This time I saw all the content. Don't know why it works like this. Thanks anyway.

--Pussy (talk) 16:31, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Moved your post to Staff lounge
Hi Abacos. I just wanted to let you know that I moved your post over to the Staff lounge for further discussion there. is generally in charge of site layout issues. To be honest, I don't think the tab order is determined necessarily by an item's placement in the source code, but rather by it's actual appearance on the page. So even if the source code for the social buttons were moved to below the show preview, I doubt it would matter if the execution is the same. Never the less, I'll leave it in Staff lounge for discussion.  Pro cyon  00:39, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Abacos (talk) 07:42, 26 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Grammar alert: it's = "it is", its = "of it". You just mixed up the two ("...By the actual appearance of it on the page"). Eh, it happens even to the best ones... ;-P --Abacos (talk) 07:42, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Bionic Commando
This seems to suggest that this should be split into two different series: Wolf of the Battlefield and Bionic Commando. What do you think? -- Prod (talk) 21:23, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The gameplay of "Commando/Wolf of the Battlefield" (and its sequels) is fully incorporated in the "Bionic Commando" games, as a mini-game or special bonus stages. It is the same as when Mario Bros. was incorporated into Super Mario Bros. 3 (and in a different way in Super Mario All-Stars). Since Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. are in the same series, then I would also keep Commando together with Bionic Commando. ---Abacos (talk) 11:51, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Mega Man III/
Was this an actual release? I couldn't find anything after a quick google. -- Prod (talk) 17:43, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Simply put, whenever I select "https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Mega_Man_III" in the address bar, my browser changes it to "https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Mega_Man_III/", and I get to an error page, therefore I created the redirect back to the actual page. It does it with plenty of Strategywiki pages. --Abacos (talk) 17:50, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This sounds like an issue with your browser, since the trailing / is considered a different address than without, and as such has different content. This should _definitely_ not be in the Mega Man category. Although I like having redirects for possible misspellings of names, I'd rather this issue be fixed globally rather than relying on redirects. -- Prod (talk) 17:58, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Just before reading your answer, I thought that maybe it could be fixed globally. I wonder why it came to my mind only now. Therefore, I will look for all the similar redirect pages I created, and delete them all. --Abacos (talk) 18:21, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Which browser/version are you using? And any extensions? -- Prod (talk) 18:55, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The latest Mozilla Firefox, without any extension. --Abacos (talk) 22:40, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That's strange. I've been using the same for years and never seen that happen. -- Prod (talk) 02:52, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Well then, I will use more patience: if I have to delete the trailing slash twice or more times, I will do it. --Abacos (talk) 12:32, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * If you're seeing it, there may be others having the same issue. Can you try starting firefox in safe mode and see if you can reproduce the issue? -- Prod (talk) 19:04, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Mega Man Bosses
One of the discussions we had a while ago was to not put the bosses in weakness order, but to try and follow the display order. Weaknesses would be considered a spoiler so it shouldn't be displayed in the ToC. -- Prod (talk) 14:45, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree with this. The information should be contained in the guide, but presented in such a way that readers only discover it if they actively choose to find out what the weaknesses are, not simply by looking at the table of contents.  Spoiler-free is difficult to do, and takes a greater deal of planning and organizing, but it gives each guide a higher level of quality in the end.   Pro  cyon  14:52, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I see. I am fine with that. If I knew it, I would have respected it. I can fix it. How about sorted by serial number, i.e. as they are presented during the ending credits? --Abacos (talk) 23:26, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Stats
Hey Abacos. I don't mind the switch to attribute, but I just want you to understand that the word "stat" is a generally accepted term, at least within the context of games (video or otherwise). Stat is another word for attribute, while statistic is piece of data from a study, and not an aspect about a character. I was using both stat and attribute to reduce word fatigue. I personally don't like reading a page where the same word is used over and over again when alternatives are available, but that's just me.  Pro cyon  01:40, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, this week I was stressed out for other reasons. You are right: repeated use of the same word is bad writing style. I have to think of "stat" not as an abbreviation (you know, I dislike abbreviations), but as a synthesis/intersection of "status" and "statistic", until I persuade myself. :D --Abacos (talk) 17:49, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Forgotten Realms
If these games were all done by different developers, shouldn't they be separate series? Usually different developers change enough of the game that they're not really a series anymore. -- Prod (talk) 20:40, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Forgotten Realms is a license, like Star Wars, or Harry Potter. The license gets shopped around to different developers, but the category serves to archive every game that belongs to the license.  Maybe it could be further subcategorized. --  Pro  cyon  01:25, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it is unnecessary to create further sub-categories for the following reasons:


 * 1) Almost all the games (except e.g. the strategy games) use the same rules from Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, and they share the same setting, character classes, enemies, etc.
 * 2) I personally would prefer to avoid templates made 100% of red links to nonexisting pages.
 * 3) Pool of Radiance and the Gold Box games are the very first role-playing games based on Dungeons & Dragons. I think it would be unfair to put them in a 3rd level sub-sub-series. Chronologically, they are the original series.
 * 4) The plots of the Stormfront games are unrelated (except for the Savage Frontier's), and the gameplay of the last ones is different.
 * 5) The gameplays of the Dreamforge games are totally different: one is a random-generated dungeon crawler, the other one is a plot-rich open world.
 * 6) I occasionally pondered the possibility of moving Black Isle's Icewind Dale games into the  series: they use the same engine of Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, and Black Isle developed Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 2. Still, I am against creating a separate "Icewind Dale" category.
 * After all, maybe the previous version of the template, organized by genre, was better than the current. ---Abacos (talk) 07:14, 5 January 2018 (UTC)