Talk:MapleStory

Items Page
Just checking, but should the Items page(s) be continued? I've had mixed opinions on it. Check it here. It will look better sooner, I hope.
 * I saw it. you might want to sign your comments btw. i'm not sure it's a good idea. it'll basically just be a humongous list of pictures. Can't put much info for most of the items. Maybe if you wanted to do just event items or something, but listing every item in the game seems like a waste of space to me. IsaacGS 21:57, 3 March 2007 (CST)
 * lol, this is so noobish, how do I sign comments?
 * Use ~ . -- Prod (Talk) 23:53, 3 March 2007 (CST)

Title
It was moved as per wikipedia:Talk:MapleStory. Enochlau 14:08, 2 October 2005 (UTC) Im copying the text from there to here for reference sake.... --Prod-You 04:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Should this be called MapleStory instead? On the game's website, it's always spelt without the space, and staff sign with "MapleStory staff" on the news. Enochlau 06:02, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yea you are right. I looked through the website and it always refers to it as MapleStory.  One thing to consider before changing the name is that the wikibooks link probably will break if the name is changed -- Prod-Me 12:08, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That should be ok - we should be able to move the wikibooks article, or failing that, put a redirect in place. Enochlau 14:02, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. Enochlau 14:09, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Armor and Weapon pages
As was said a while ago, it would be pointless for this book to turn into a hidden street or sauna, so lets try to do something different. My view is that these pages should have recommendations of which items to get and when. Perhaps even to be merged into one "shopping" page or something since they are fairly closely linked. -- Prod-You 06:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * There are a few pages with listings of armors and weapons from the game which can be found linked from MapleStory/Items. All of this info can be found on Hidden-Street and Sauna already.  Initially this stuff should be moved to the specific class section(s) that would need to wear those items.  However, we should move towards discussing the advantages and disadvantages of wearing certain items.  Perhaps a guide to which armors to buy and when, based on amount of money, and enemy trained on.  --Prod-You 06:42, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I moved most of the info to the MapleStory/Beginner Guide/Armor page since they are mainly beginner items. Those lists need to be cut down so that only the important items are included, rather than everything (which is already covered nicely on hidden street).  Also got rid of the items link from the main TOC. -- Prod-You 01:21, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking of merging the Armor and Weapons pages into an Equipment page, and moving all the equip guides to those pages. I'm thinking that the main job pages should only be for training locations and discussions about the classes. -- Prod (Talk) 23:32, 9 March 2007 (CST)

Templates

 * Template:MapleStory/itemtable (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/itemtablestart (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/item (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/TOC (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/tablestyle (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Skill (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Skill desc (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Quest (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Monster (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Training location (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/TOC/Jobs (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/TOC/Jobs/sub (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/TOC/Quests (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/TOC/Towns (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/TOC/Monsters (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Jobs (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Versions (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Versions/Areas (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Versions/Jobs (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Versions/Accompaniments (Talk)
 * Template:MapleStory/Versions/Other (Talk)

Unused images
I'm not going to list them all here (because there are hundreds of them), but Special:Unusedimages is full of MapleStory images, and it might be a good idea to get them used in the MapleStory guide before duplicates get uploaded. --DrBob (Talk) 07:17, 27 January 2007 (CST)
 * Some already have been duplicated. The rest are skills that should go on the guide pages... a section that's been fairly neglected as of late :X We'll work on it some. IsaacGS 20:48, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, I don't think any have been duplicated. I made sure I only uploaded one of each (based on checksums).  It's taking a little while to use them as there is a lot of content on the pages.  So far I've finished the Beginner, Warrior, and Magician pages.  Next is Thief since Bowman may take some rearranging. -- Prod (Talk) 00:36, 9 February 2007 (CST)

Amoria
Talk:MapleStory/Towns/Amoria I put it there, but i'm not sure anyone would see it. not sure it'll be seen here, but i figured this is more often viewed.IsaacGS 20:44, 8 February 2007 (CST)
 * Congrats on your wedding :P. One pic should be good enough. -- Prod (Talk) 23:58, 8 February 2007 (CST)

AMORIA PQ! data has started to appear in the GlobalMS's files. Not much known yet, just the names of the items. Definitely an expansion coming soon. IsaacGS 13:17, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

Quests page
I split it up according to locations. I think Omega Sector and Ludi quests should be combined into one level list. When KFT comes out in Global, it'll go there too. Riprey, Wuling, and Hundred grass can go on a separate page, and all the Original areas too. Perhaps break Victoria Island down into high level quests, and low level quests. IsaacGS 22:16, 7 March 2007 (CST)
 * I renamed the Orbis/Ludi to East and West Ossyria (based on the direction the train seems to go). I think you're right about merging Ludi/Omega Sector, since it's already done for the other places.  It might also be useful to add a complete quests list to the main MapleStory/Quests page, similar to the monsters list.  Perhaps a Maple Island list at the beginning, then sections by level, with columns for each continent. -- Prod (Talk) 23:48, 7 March 2007 (CST)
 * In the last global patch, a number of level requirements for quests were changed. In addition, the EXP rewards for a lot of them were also changed (Curse Dolls comes to mind). May need to investigate further in this, as i believe it's occurred in some versions already. IsaacGS 20:29, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

About the "East and West Ossyria" renames by Prod. Now that we have Ossyria maps. This should probably be changed. West Ossyria is not Orbis/El Nath/Aquarium, or East Ossyria is not Ludibrium/Omega Sector. Should we split the Quest up via Regions? Orbis and El Nath quests on "El Nath Mts." quest page. Aquarium quests on "Aqua Road" page, and Ludibrium/Omega Sector/Korean Folk Town quests on "Ludus Lake" page? Or, since Orbis/El Nath/Aquarium quests are already on one page. Just change "West Ossyria" to "El Nath Mts. and Aqua Road"? -- Takiten 21:37, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Let's change it to the new area names. IsaacGS 22:10, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

Towns
The info from the "old page" needs to be merged into the separate towns pages. The header in the toc also needs a major clean up. It might actually be better to merge them into a few island pages, similar to the way the quests are split up, since each page on its own is fairly small. -- Prod (Talk) 23:48, 7 March 2007 (CST)
 * It might be sufficient to create a page for each island that links to the towns on that continent. Maybe even have the towns pop up in the TOC like they do now, but only those on the proper island. what do you think?IsaacGS 20:41, 8 March 2007 (CST)
 * I'm somewhat undecided, since each island has very little information apart from "it has these towns" if all the info goes on the specific towns pages. I was thinking, we leave all the transportation/icons on the main page, with links to Maple Island, Victoria Island, East Ossyria Island, West Ossyria Island and Marriage Towns in the All Game Nav.  Then have all the towns in each Island on their page.  Come to think of it, perhaps we should put the transportation stuff on each world page, and use the icons table as a form of Table of Contents to the other pages (like the Character classes table for the jobs).  I can take care of getting the pages set up, I'll just need help cleanup up the pages after. -- Prod (Talk) 22:37, 8 March 2007 (CST)
 * Sounds good to me. Eventually though we'll have to integrate new towns like the Wuling/hundred grass island and Riprey. Also the original areas, as GMs continually drop hints that a global original area is on the way. IsaacGS 13:55, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * Someone created Coke town, Adventurer Course, and i created an Herb Town page. all the towns now have their own pages, and i watched several videos of them to get a feel for the areas in the write-ups. Most of them are fairly long. Time to clear the main page. Another point: Should we use Wikipedia's Version Content page on here as well? it might help clarify what towns are available or unavailable. IsaacGS 20:00, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I created the Coke town and the Adventurer Course pages. - Wkkim9292 22:17, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I think that we should put the new Versions template on the main Towns page, along with the icons. In fact, i think we should combine the two templates by putting each icon next to the appropriate town in the Versions chart. That gives that page a purpose, and provides the launching point for each of the individual town's pages. Not to mention it'll allow the removal of those "This town is available in *version* only.* from each page. Now that it's on here, I also think it's fit to be expanded. IsaacGS 16:53, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I was thinking the same thing. The only problem is that it has all sorts of other information as well.  Maybe it needs to be split up into multiple templates?  -- Prod (Talk) 17:26, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * yeah. Maybe remove features and just leave the towns and areas. I'm gonna look at it now and see what can be done with it. IsaacGS 19:22, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I did a mock-up of the new tables on my user page. I added a few other areas with incomplete availability as well. Check it out and tell me what you think. IsaacGS 20:02, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Is the Versions Content going to be put on the MapleStory page? - Wkkim9292 23:23, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
 * At some point. We're trying to decide how to do it right now. IsaacGS 13:45, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

I would prefer if we could find a place to keep the whole table together, to show an overall comparison of the versions, perhaps the patches page. I think that we should probably merge the Minigames and Other features templates. The locations stuff from this template should be merged with the location images and info from the /Towns page, and extra boxes added to show that they are in all versions. Also, the tables only need one heading each (I prefer the smaller ones, what do you think?). Finally, what are we going to name them all? Template:MapleStory/Versions/Areas or Template:MapleStory/Version area availability (Accompaniments, Jobs, and Other for the remaining groups). -- Prod (Talk) 17:54, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Check This out:

That's KMS' new town in the April patch. pretty cool. IsaacGS 18:34, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

GM events
Can/should we include these on here? a while back i had the opportunity to do a few different kinds of GM events, have some screenshots to go with it. They're all different, some operate like PQs, and others don't. IsaacGS 22:31, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Do you mean that a page about the GM events should be created? It would be good if something about the GM Event is included. - Wkkim9292 02:44, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, that's what I meant. Something like the Quests page, but geared toward GM events. IsaacGS 14:33, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * How do you think about creating a page MapleStory/Quests/GM Events? - Wkkim9292 15:48, 26 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Sounds good to me, maybe wait for a few more people to weigh in. My pics are of the Ola Ola event and coconut collecting. If anyone else has screens of different events that would help. IsaacGS 17:47, 26 March 2007 (CDT)

Coke Town no longer available in KMS.
I was wondering if we should change the town availability table for Coke Town from "Exclusive" on KMS to something else, since KMS doesn't have it anymore. We could either take Coke town completely off the chart, or put something like "Exclusive (Retired)" or simply just change it to "No"?. Any ideas? -- Takiten 00:17, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
 * I like retired. maybe there should be another section called "Limited Availability" which would have Happyville and coke Town in it? IsaacGS 13:41, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Ludi Maze PQ
I heard this is now in KMS. is that true? or is it coming with the april patch? IsaacGS 20:59, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Did you see this from the old town/areas template at wikipedia? Someone marked it as yes, but it was false, and reverted. -- Takiten 21:59, 3 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, that's where i saw it i believe. Ok. Hopefully i'll be able to get some info on it soon. -- IsaacGS 22:01, 3 April 2007 (CDT)

FAQ section
Man, that thing is a nightmare. I put a warning at the top that it's not a talk page. I tried fixing it, there was SO many spelling errors and a lot of incorrect information. It's in need of a complete rewrite or possible removal. In addition, I was wondering if we should create a "Pets/mounts" page, as there's quite a few of them and in some versions they have innate differences in skills and such. IsaacGS 00:15, 31 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Well thanks for cleaning up the page. Pets/mounts page would be useful considering we're getting those mounts in GMS soon. I guess everyone was too lazy to figure out what to include and exclude. This includes me. GameFreak 03:12, 31 March 2007 (CDT)

EuropeMS patch v0.22. (Big Update)
Anyone hear play EuropeMS? I heard they got a huge 220+ MB patch, and released a whole slew of things, including Adventurer Training Course, possibly Aqua Road, possibly Omega Sector, possibly Perion Excavation Site and Ruins, possibly Henesys Party Quest, possibly Sharenian Guild Quest, and inside the data, they have Leafre and Zipangu (not released yet). Most of these are unconfirmed, so we need someone to actually check this out. The patch notes revealed nothing. They also got placeholders for the World Tour Guide NPCs, and the Maple Home Delivery Trucks, without the NPC. Also Beginner Skills are confirmed, and Sign Posts in the towns. -- Takiten 11:50, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * The adventurer training course is confirmed. Perion Excavation Site is on the Victoria world map, but not released yet. I've seen a screenshot of the Henesys PQ NPC, but people say it says nothing when you click on him/her, so not sure if Henesys PQ is released yet. Since characters where wiped, I guess this is going to take awhile for people to find all the new stuff added in this version. -- Takiten 12:17, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, i was just looking at all this too. Wow, who'd have though when we were kidding that EMS would pass global, it'd end up being true. >_> IsaacGS 13:38, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

Looks like the "Adventure Training Course" name in English is "Mushroom Town Training Camp"... Should we change it? -- Takiten 14:38, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Yes, I think it is good to be changed. - Wkkim9292 21:40, 5 April 2007 (CDT)

In KoreaMS Tespia Patch 1.2.80...
Coke Town is available again. - Wkkim9292 21:55, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * We should probably wait and see if Official KMS gets Coke Town back before changing everything back to the way it was in the article. -- Takiten 23:34, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
 * if it does come back, it's still worth mentioning that it was temporarily removed, as that's never happened before. IsaacGS 01:18, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

The Road Names in KoreaMS Tespia are changed.
For example, Orbis used to be Orbis:Orbis, but now it became Sky Road:Orbis in KoreaMS Tespia. Leafre's Road name is changed too. After the world maps had been added in KoreaMS Tespia Patch 1.2.80, they were changed. And by the way, Ariant is Burning Road:Ariant. - Wkkim9292 22:05, 6 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Wow, you gotta get all that information. We used to keep all the road names in the Icons chart awhile back, maybe with these new road names, we can re-add them. -- Takiten 23:30, 6 April 2007 (CDT)


 * Currently, there are very few informations in KoreaMS websites. It has been only 1 or 2 days since the the street names were changed. I will get all of these informations when the official KoreaMS changes the street names in this month's patch. - Wkkim9292 00:17, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It's really hard to get info from Tespia... We may have to wait until it comes out officially to get all the names. IsaacGS 13:41, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

I got a friend (you know who you are) to extract every single road and map name from KMST. I sorted through it and sent all the road names to Wkkim9292's email to be translated. From what I've translated on my own:


 * Omega Sector and Korean Folk Town have the same road names = "Ludus Lake"
 * Mu Lung and Herb Town have the same road names = "Mureung Garden". Might be changed to Mu Lung Garden in English, who knows.
 * Each of the towers have their own road names. Orbis Tower, Eos Tower, Helios Tower, ect.
 * Orbis is now Sky Road, as already mentioned.
 * El Nath's new road is "El Nath Mountain" or something like that now.
 * El Nath Dungeon is a road name now from the first level 50+ map onward.
 * Ludibrium and Upper Clock Tower has a new road name. Might be "Ludibrium Castle"?
 * Deep Clock Tower has a new road name.
 * Leafre has at least 2-3 different road names now. I think the main road is "Minar Forest".
 * Aqua Dungeon didn't get a new road name, just keeps "Aqua Road", along with the rest of Aqua Road. But I noticed the main town isn't Aquarium : Aquarium anymore, it's Aqua Road : Aquarium.
 * The main towns in all of Ossyria have the new road name, but all the subtown maps like houses, market areas, village portions of town, ect, keep the old road names. Like Burning Road : Ariant = Main town. Ariant : Ariant Village = One of the subtown maps. All the orbis shop maps, houses, station maps, ect keep the old "Orbis" road name. All the houses and subtown areas in Ludibrium have a "Ludibrium Village" road name, the shops keep "Ludibrium".
 * All the hunting grounds for every ossyria town have the new road names.
 * Maple Island and Victoria Island didn't have any road name changes. Still says "Dungeon" for the Sleepywood and Ant Tunnel.
 * Coke Town didn't get a new road name. Just keeps "Hidden Street".
 * All the world tour maps keep their old road names: Japan, China, Taiwan, Thailand.
 * Basically, there are tons and tons of road names now lol. -- Takiten 17:01, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I don't think we should change it all to "Aquarium". Aqua Road is Aqua Road, that's what everyone has always called it. Aquarium is merely a tiny portion, while Aqua Road includes everything underwater, up to B2 of Orbis Tower. I think it even refers to the area on the map as Aqua Road... IsaacGS 17:23, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * But, every other town's hunting ground area as a whole is called by the main town name. I think we should put the Road names in all the town specific pages. Now that I have all the translations. Now we can say "You can find Lucidas at the very end of Sky Road" rather than "At the end of Orbis's hunting grounds". But I guess changing it now might confuse people, since only KMST has the new road names. If we call all the towns by what they are called on the world map, then we'd have to change Korean Folk Town and Omega Sector to "Ludus Lake"... I guess there are just some things that can't change. -- Takiten 19:02, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

I updated the Aquarium Page. I think that might work. -- Takiten 19:28, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
 * That's good, it starts to transition to the new names. I think one reason other areas may be referred to by their town's name as opposed to the road's name is because towns like Orbis and El Nath and Ludi are enormous, and Aquarium is almost more like a restock spot along the way, like the 24 hour store. IsaacGS 19:53, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Minigames
Should we make a minigames section? Now that MSEA has Fishing we can get some real information on it. Gachapon, Match Cards, Omok, Rock/Paper/Scissors, Fishing system and then Fishing king, PVP, plus Pachinko in JMS, so there's rather a lot of them. Could be more on the way, too. IsaacGS 13:40, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Sounds good to me. -- Prod (Talk) 19:43, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

English Names for Xi Men Ding and Korean Folk Town
I have extracted MapleSEA Map.wz and found Taiwan maps related files. One of them were called Seo Moon Jeong. In KoreaMS, Xi Men Ding is called Seo Moon Jeong(서문정) as well. In MapHelper.img, it has Korean Folk Town's map icon and it is called Folkvillage. Should the names of these maps get changed? - Wkkim9292 18:09, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
 * If you look in the string.wz, you can see all the road and map names for everything currently in the data. Korean Folk Town main town map, street and map name is "Korean Folk Town". There are no Taiwan related street/map names in the string.wz. So I think we should just keep Xi Men Ding the way it is until we get the english street/map name. Folkvilliage.png is just the icon's name. Like Mushroom Shrine's icon is "jipangu.png" and Showa Town's icon is "shouwa.png". Lith Harbor's icon is "Rith.png". A lot of the icon filenames are weird/misspelled/untranslated. -- Takiten 18:12, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

I found in the MapleSEA data, a few possible map names for Xi Men Ding called "Back Ally of Taipei" and "Taipei Route". Compared it with JMS's data, and found "西門町裏道2" "西門路". They are not actual maps, but the first one does say "West Gate Town Side Street 2" in English, which could translate to "Back Ally of Taipei" by Nexon's terms. I'm thinking this will be the official English name of Xi Men Ding. "Taipei". I also made this suggestion a few months ago on wikipedia discussion. But we can always wait till we get the map names from one of the english versions is added to the street/map portion of the data. But this looks promising that Xi Men Ding will be named Taipei. Taipei is the capital of Taiwan in the real world. Night Market is also listed in there, but we already have that name down. -- Takiten 22:20, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

New monster on Tespia KMS 1.2.82
I have no idea what its name is I can't read korean but here a picture and its korean name its a reaper or something I also add the new pet in the pet page "Sonokong"

- 리치 Lv.?? Click Here

DarkNShadow 20:32, 18 April 2007 (CDT)


 * It is not a pet and it is a new monster. 리치 translates to Leech and it is absolutely not a pet. - Wkkim9292 21:26, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

I was wondering about this. Finally found it. It's a Lich, it appears on Zombie maps. Still don't know what level it is though, but presumably close to 57 like Zombie. IsaacGS 23:09, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I think you misunderstand him he say he also added a new pet to the pet page call "Sonokong." ★ ~MΛRXΘΓ~ ★  =]  Want to?|undefined/Wi-Fi Gaming|undefined 23:21, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * That was added as well. There's also a new level 200 mount, anyone got a pic of that (not that pixelized one on the KMS site). IsaacGS 23:42, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
 * A picture of it? The level 200 Characters in KoreaMS Tespia are created yesterday and they are the characters which are created by the administrators. Its picture can't be seen unless the administrators take the picture of it and upload it to MapleStory website. - Wkkim9292 00:29, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm not really talking about the NPCs. I meant that level 200 Dragon can be ridden so... Must be a separate image. IsaacGS 13:16, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

TaiwanMS .50
Does anyone know the contents of this patch? the only thing i can find evidence of is the fishing system. There's got to be more than that, after all this is Taiwan we're talking about, they caught up to JMS in like 8 months. IsaacGS 17:01, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Didn't TaiwanMS get the fishing system awhile back? It's been marked as "Yes" since v0.46. -- Takiten 17:56, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * That's what i thought too, but the 4/25 link takes me to the fishing lagoon. They've got some new cash items featured there from KMST. That's all I can see though. TaiwanMS, as far as i Know, has never gotten a patch without at least some content. IsaacGS 20:52, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Would 4th Job Advancement be added on that patch? Because KoreaMS, JapanMS got it after getting Floating Market and ChinaMS is going to have 4th job for next patch and got Floating Market for last patch. - Wkkim9292 21:52, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I would think there would be some kind of picture evidence of 4th jobs being released though. It's possible it could be a run of the mill "no new content" patch. But there was a specific page on their website that showed them releasing Henesys PQ and the Fishing System back for v0.46. -- Takiten 22:23, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Well, because it's a stupid annoying flash thing, i can't translate it... I really wish we had some players of CMS/TMS on here helping. IsaacGS 22:40, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
 * I agree with you IsaacGS. I have been trying to find CMS/TMS users in Sleepywood and sent messages but they said they don't play CMS/TMS and they play GlobalMS. It is hard to find CMS/TMS players. - Wkkim9292 02:47, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

JapanMS has alpha/beta server?
I am just wondering but I saw these pictures post be someone in a forums do you guy think this monsters would turn out to be true just asking.

Click Here1 Click Here2 Click Here3

★ ~MΛRXΘΓ~ ★ =]  Want to?|undefined/Wi-Fi Gaming|undefined 03:12, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Where'd you get those? It looks very good, and the cakes/candles are real, but I KNOW that if something like that existed we'd have to have heard about it by now. if that's the case, they Must be fake. IsaacGS 03:51, 22 April 2007 (CDT)