Talk:Super Mario Bros. 2/Characters

Subjectiveness of Princess' jump rating
I know that RAP based the ratings off of what Super Mario Advance provides for each character on the select screen, but I disagree with the jump rating for the Princess. She cannot jump as high as Luigi, but her ability to float in mid-air and travel far longer distances makes her jump substantially more useful than Mario's. While I would argue that most stats provided in-game are usually canonical, I'm not convinced that in this case it's a good gauge to go by.  Pro cyon  03:56, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Another problem with this rating system; everyone is rated from 2 to 5, making all of the ratings superfluous by 1. That was just Nintendo basically saying, "none of the characters can be the worst at anything."  Pro cyon  04:07, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey, I just follow what the game says. Perhaps it's a Mario Kart: Double Dash!! situation where the stats don't tell the 'exact' stats and had to create a rating system that is readable to those non-technical. I have a feeling that the Jump rating just applies to the max jump height and max jump height while running, and special attributes like Luigi's fluttering jump; and Princess Peach's hovering jump do not take account of the rating system. You know, I think the one way to resolve this is to deconstruct the abilities of the characters into something that is readable instead of relying on the Rating system, seeing how the characters move, I would like to see what is 1) Stop length while walking, 2) Stop length while running, 3) Max jump when not moving, 4) Max jump when moving/running, 5) Their hitboxes on being harmed by an enemy or grabbing an item/object, and 6) The amount of time/frames on grabbing an item from the ground. --RAP (talk) 04:32, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok, so here's what I've got. The Super Mario All-Stars instruction booklet discusses (in words) the characters' jumping power, running speed, and heavy-item-pick-up speed. The Nintendo Player's Guide, in describing the characters, gives them all a rating from 1 to 4 in categories of speed, jump, and power (and the numbers don't really agree with everything else). I think perhaps what we should do is entirely scrap the star/number system, and simply compare/contrast the characters' abilities. - I think the All-Stars instruction booklet does a good job at being objective about it, as it doesn't try to put a rating on Princess' overall jumping ability. Also, "power" is ambiguous, "speed" is misleading, and "jump" obviously lacks details on luigi and princess. If that sounds good, I will type up something. -- Ceegers (talk) 08:26, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Technical details, small, minute but important details that the average player will not be aware; like Toad stopping his movement almost instantly when he stops running or walking! Like this:

I made this out of the blue for fun, but it would surely be something that is measured and recorded. --RAP (talk) 09:50, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Unless you're incredibly skilled at parsing assembly code, the chances that even half of that table could be filled out accurately are extremely remote. On top of which, I imagine that the average reader might find that chart overwhelming due to the sheer amount of information being presented to them at once.  I'm not saying it's a bad design, I'm just not certain of how constructive it would be to a typical reader.  Therefore the ratio between the effort to the payoff is potentially too high.   Pro  cyon  12:35, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree that it is not something worth putting on the page since it requires data dumping. However useful and accurate may be, it is unlikely to ever be finished. Feel free to put it on your user page and work on it there until it is finished, but until then I don't think we should have it. If we do add it to the page it should be in its own section at the bottom, and explained thoroughly.
 * In regards to the general diamond metric we currently use, Proc, I would just put the normal dots in for her jump, then have an extra parameter rating her additional jump bonuses (highest super hop and float = best jumping in the game IMO, but I am sure there are strategies for Luigi, Mario, and Toad, that require their specific jumping height to achieve so again it is highly subjective/arbitrary in its value). A blurb is all that is necessary about Princess' jump to offset that. Maybe add a "(see below for exceptions)" next to her jump rating. -- 01:29, 23 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I changed my mind :P I think this may spur efforts to find the data, which is handy, especially for writing about the various stats we have yet to define. -- 22:53, 28 March 2014 (UTC)


 * NMH, I'm really unsure of this. Even if, perhaps, someone was able to mine the code for those values, they may not even be identical from one version to the next, which would lead to further edit conflicts and/or further complication of that table.  All this page is designed for is to let a player know what each character's strengths and weaknesses are.  At best, that table should be relegated to an appendix for someone who really wants to know those values.  Left there, that table is only going to confuse a majority of the readers (especially considering not one value is even present.)   Pro  cyon  23:44, 28 March 2014 (UTC)


 * What do you guys think of making appendices? We could simplify this page, then stick the chart in the appendix, and probably move the warps and maybe even Yoshi's Challenge to the appendices as well? -- Ceegers (talk) 08:37, 29 March 2014 (UTC)