User talk:Najzere/Talk page archive 201–300

Etymology of an arbitrary name
I've been opposed to this statement, although it doesn't really matter. You may or may not have paid attention its content, but what do you think? -- 07:03, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what the poster is talking about, so I can't comment on whether it's legit or not. If "Boylover" is notable for having invented a move, then I guess it's all right, although even if it is, it seems unnecessary. It seems like mentioning Billy Mitchell in a King Kong article or something. I figured since you've been reverting it you may know something about the game. — najzere T 07:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: Reflex.
Well I've setup this game for the Wii but I still couldn't figure out a solution, because of the name change, the content is almost the same with Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare with minor changes to it. I've already mentioned the titles, with or without semicolons and I doubt it would work the same if you move or merge it which I will think over. If you have a solution, give it a try and see if it works. Johnnyauau2000 09:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I transcluded the Table of Contents for now, but I'm pretty sure we can get rid of the Reflex page and just note that as the name that's used on the Wii version on the Modern Warfare page. — najzere T 09:41, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I would get a boxart image but that would be watermarked. Instead I'll clear the way for the Wii controls to be integrated into the pages already made by editors before I came along. Johnnyauau2000 09:54, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Main page story sections
Since when has the story section been deprecated? I don't remember the discussion. -- 08:25, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think there was a discussion. It's one of those creeping changes that insinuates itself throughout the wiki over time. The front page section headings are mainly found on the older guides and I don't think even Procyon uses them much anymore, although his main pages don't seem to follow any set pattern. — najzere T 16:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Just because Procyon fails to follow a standard doesn't mean we should follow him. This isn't something that just goes away; we debated upon the main page layout for like two months. It's important that we remain the same way. The only person that I've seen remove the story sections is you, Naj. -- 19:05, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't saying we should follow any one specific person (although Procyon probably creates 85% of the main pages around here), but rather update the guide to reflect the newest standards in use throughout the wiki. Of course I'm the only one that removes them – I'm the only one doing a lot of cleanup tasks. I'm not the only one that doesn't use them when creating a main page however, which is the point. Just like tons of other things I've had to update in the guide, story headings seem to be a legacy from several years ago. — najzere T 19:20, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that things have changed (e.g. gameplay information is sometimes included below the continue nav), but the fact is, if a story section is on the main page, then a header is required for organization's sake. Just like a block of text in a walkthrough, the main page is laid out to be clearly separated. -- 19:51, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It's certainly not a fact that headings are required for organization's sake, since plenty of guides are doing quite well without the headings. Using them is simply for standardization's sake, and that's respectable enough, except that the standards have changed. In the past when new guidelines have evolved, we've updated the guide to reflect that, and I don't see why this one should be any different. — najzere T 20:01, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think this change occurred because of our awareness of the negative effect of white space. -- 20:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, think of how much whitespace we'll be getting rid of if we can get Prod to let us have the collapsible infobox fields! — najzere T 20:56, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I think it's important for some games. The issue with the headers is that it they don't always line up efficiently with the infobox. I think we should have a more formal voting process for small issues like these that don't require bureaucrat privileges to put in place. Procyon suggested VfD. -- 21:30, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

From what I remember, there was never a discussion about whether or not a heading was required. However, Story sections are allowed on the main page, as long as they don't go into too much detail and become spoilers. They can also be on the walkthrough page as an introduction to the guide. -- Prod (Talk) 01:11, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

GTA: San Andreas
Hello there, just thought I'd pop in and say thanks for the copyediting of my inclusions. I'm not a native English speaker and sometimes in a hurry; reading it all on a tiny netbook doesn't help my case either ;) Cheers, Scoo 21:07, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, thank you – you're doing the hard work of writing guide content. Keep up the good work! :) — najzere T 01:03, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Template:~t
Thoughts? Also, I think Template:Assassin's Creed/vic‎ should be moved to Template:Assassin's Creed/Vic‎ since that's generally the format we follow for subpages. -- Prod (Talk) 21:47, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh, I don't think anyone will really use it that much. It's more natural to make a template at Template:Ac vic.It's also less than ideal to have to put in "2=name=Bob" for named parameters. This would be good if we tried to enforce a guide-specific template standardization where all templates had to be subpaged off the game's name, though. — najzere T 22:28, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Meeting topics
I remember you had a few topics you wanted to discuss at the end of the previous meeting. Please start forum threads on them, and reply to the meeting thread with a link to that topic. -- Prod (Talk) 20:02, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this required to bring up a topic at the meeting? — najzere T 20:21, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It would greatly help (aka yes). -- 21:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

RoboDestroyer
Just FYI, I was trying to show him how to upload images and whatnot via IRC. Thanks for deleting them though, but I think you might have made him feel a little bad with your messages on his talk page. XP --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 23:59, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * OH NOES someone got their feelings hurt on the internet! — najzere T 00:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Image move
Hi, would you be able to move File:Modern-Warfare-2-Multiplayer-Map-Favela.jpg to File:CoD MW2 Map Favela.jpg (or something similar)? Will help to keep things organised. Thanks JordanH 21:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. — najzere T 22:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I noticed that we won't be able to use that map for copyright reasons - but I've found some of the overhead maps used in-game which people extracted from the PC version. They aren't that big, most are just 512x512, but would we be able to use them without legal issues? I guess it wouldn't be hard to annotate the maps with some of the detail from the strategy guide. JordanH 23:03, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, anything you can find from in-game screens is fine, and we're not too particular about only using small resolutions either. The only thing we should be careful about, is if the images have already been marked up at all. If the images you're talking about already have locations tagged on them by someone, for instance, then our fair use wouldn't apply. The screengrab itself can be used under fair use, but any work someone's done on top of it can't. Hope that helps! — najzere T 23:14, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * One thing I'm not sure about, if I take an in-game image under fair use and make annotations to that image myself, would the modified image still be able to be licenced under fair use? JordanH 23:35, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Basically we're talking about two separate licenses. The source image is copyrighted to the developers/publishers of the game and can only be used with permission or under fair use. Your contributions on top of it are licensed under whatever you release it as. If you upload it here, you're agreeing to release it under our CC-BY-SA license (like everything else on the wiki). As far as anyone else is concerned, if they want to use your image after you've uploaded here, they would need to claim fair use for the underlying image, and comply with our CC-BY-SA license for the added portion. — najzere T 23:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Deus Ex
If tidying wiki was a martial art - you'd be a dangerous man! - (Trevman 21:10, 30 November 2009 (UTC))
 * Heh, thanks! Actually I'm glad to see you're working on Deus Ex, as it's my favorite game. :) I'm a big fan of Hitman: Blood Money too, and there's so much to do for both guides. I don't know if you're into speedruns at all, but the Deus Ex one is awesome and Blood Money is pretty good too. Cheers, — najzere T 21:19, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Vendetta/Walkthrough
When tagging posts as potential copyright violations, it's traditional to inform the user about the content being located on the other site. This allows the contributor to more quickly suggest checking the first letter of each paragraph on the GameFAQs version (starting at the Docklands) or to provide an image showing that the user authored the content on the other site. --Sigma 7 19:03, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
 * So are you waiting for me to remove the tag since you didn't when you edited the page? o_O — najzere T 19:24, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Orion 1
I am annoyed that I was blocked for 2 hours, especially after you didn't bother to e-mail me or probably even read it when I e-mailed you. It would have been easier and more effective to just e-mail your concerns and have a discussion about it.
 * Sorry, I rarely check my email (maybe once or twice a week), so I wouldn't expect any quick responses from me there. The preferred method of communication here is through talk pages however. The messages were being left on your talk page while you were editing, which produces a big orange box informing you of this at the top of the page, so I was hoping you would take a look at them (assuming you weren't just ignoring the messages). Anyway, as I indicated on your talk page, it was more to get your attention than anything else, so in the future you might want to just pop in check your messages real quick when you're alerted that you have new ones. Thanks for putting in the navigation templates in your latest pages, it's a big help for us. Sorry for the inconvenience! — najzere T 00:27, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the trouble.
I see how much I'm adding recently. It's probably just a quirk of mine that unless there's an image in a guide, the text doesn't do much. I used to try and add images to Wikipedia, and they'd crack down on them within moments, so this is just a desperate attempt at finishing the guide without going through that same fiasco. I went out of control when I saw the excessive lack of images a while back. A lot of my images I've added for looks so the gameplay doesn't feel broken or staggered. Well, that's my fault, indeed. If you had a way of notifying me which ones are decent in terms of uploading and the best of my current ones, I'll weed out the rest. As for now, I'll stop uploading with the exception of key gameplay moments that define what needs to be done (true to Strategy Wiki). Sorry to be pestering you with a redundant mistake (and wordy messages). --|Superpowered  Mario  20:24, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It sounds like you've got a good idea of which images are necessary and which aren't already. If you go through and take out the ones that are just for looks then put the delete template on them, an administrator can delete them for you. Thanks for your speedy reply in the matter. I'll be sure to take off the guide-wide cleanup tags when the number of images has been reduced. Thanks for your help! — najzere T 23:12, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Overlord
Why was the Overlord page deleted? - Trevman 18:41, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The page at Overlord belongs to the original game. The guide you're working on was moved to Overlord (2007). — najzere T 18:43, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't aware there was other Overlord games, but you are right - apparently there's 2 other games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlord. As theres 3 games with the same number, would it be worth creating a disambiguation page at "overlord" linking to "overlord (2007)" and the other 2 games?, or as there is only 1 guide at the minute setting up a redirect page? - Trevman 19:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The disambiguation happens at the guide level with the game disambig template. You can see the links created to the other two games at the top of the main game page. We can't put a redirect at Overlord, because it should be a red link so people know it needs to be created. I'll create the original game main page later today so at least something is there. Hope that answers your question! Thanks for working on another guide, you're like a super-editor! :) — najzere T 19:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, having a page there would stop people (like me) getting lost and confused haha. I seem to prefer putting up alot of information, rather than tidying and doing little edits to make things as they should (I feel more productive that way) - Trevman 19:16, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Bomberman Max images
Hey Naj. I was thinking about the Bomberman Max images. The whole thing with those two games is that they function similarly to Pokemon R/B/Y, or S/G/C, etc., so shouldn't they get one image category? Just my $0.02.  Pro cyon  16:58, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure if they share a namespace. Should they be moved to Bomberman Max: Blue Champion and Red Challenger? — najzere T 17:00, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's a good point. S7 didn't set them up in the same name space, he derived two separate front pages for each one.  I think that you're right, they should be merged, with each individual title redirecting to the merged title.  If that's not a site policy for "multiple edition" games, it probably should be.   Pro  cyon  17:02, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Well it's how all the shared Pokémon games are set up, so there's a precedent. I've also been thinking recently about how Smuggler's Run 2: Hostile Territory and Smuggler's Run: Warzones should be set up (and other games of this nature). The first is a PS2 game and the second came out a year later for GameCube with a couple extra maps and different vehicle specs. Although I'm using the subtoc, one's not an expansion of the other so I don't know if that's valid. I'm not even sure that Warzones should get its own main guide page. Besides working out stuff like this, which isn't documented in the user guide, we also have a major problem with categorized redirects which aren't seen, versus the automatic (mis)categorization on the visible page. Just some other issues surrounding non-standard game releases that could use looking into. For the Bomberman Max pages, if no one objects then I'd defer to your knowledge if you say they're similar enough to merge. — najzere T 17:18, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I would need a bit more information to determine if the games should be separate or merged. MobyGames implies that the level sets may also different, and not knowing degree of changes in Red Challenger change makes things unclear.  In either case, it's still one game for the price of two. --Sigma 7 17:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, there's no rush I don't think. Whatever you guys come up with, we'll just try and remember to make sure all the categories and whatnot flow logically from the ultimate decision. — najzere T 18:03, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Categorizing ports and different versions
I'm not personally familiar enough with Smuggler's Run to make a call on that, but it almost sounds like they might benefit from a shared TOC, like the way that Doki Doki Panic and Super Mario Bros. 2 do. Again, I really don't know for sure, but in that case, both games got front pages, but one deferred to the other for the remainder of the guide, and they shared a common TOC. Now by categorized redirects, I assume you mean redirects for games that were released in one region with one name, and in another region with a different name (e.g. Green Beret and Rush'n Attack pointing to the same guide, where Rush'n Attacks gets full categories) what is your primary concern?  Pro cyon  18:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Green Beret/Rush'n Attack don't have a problem as they share dates and developers/publishers. To use a recent example, Overlord was released as "Overlord: Raising Hell" on the PS3, but is also the name of the game's expansion pack. Right now there is one "Overlord" page for the game and "Overlord: Raising Hell" will be used as the expansion pack page. However, "Overlord" is categorized with all the PS3 information, as that is where rds and sys templates for the PS3 reside. Even if we also put categories manually on the Raising Hell guide, then two Overlord games show up in the categories. Even for games with a simple categorized redirect, if you want to put any release information on the page that's being redirected to, that page gets erroneously categorized with the redirected game's categories. I suggested on the staff lounge that there be a way to opt out of having rd and sys put a category in, but nothing came of it. As it is, we lump displaying information about a game and getting the game's name into the categories together, but at times it makes sense to keep them separate. How to do so is the problem. — najzere T 19:26, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you on this one Naj, I've known about this issue for a while. We could add a "suppress categorization" flag on to the end of those templates... not sure how efficient that would be.  But I agree, this is a problem.   Pro  cyon  20:05, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I was thinking, but Prod or someone else may have a more elegant solution. Maybe I'll open a topic on the staff lounge and people can throw in their ideas. — najzere T 20:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Dungeon Fighter Online
Thanks for the custom link and I apologize for any errors im making in structure. I'm still getting used to how the formatting on here works. I have lots of info for the guide but I don't want it to just be blocks of info which isn't too appealing so if you could do or tell me anything that could be done to make it look better it would be greatly appriciated.

Also The information that was under Walkthrough I put so thats its also when you click on Dungeons. The information in the walkthrough had mostly to deal with Dungeons and ow they are played so I fugred it best go under that as well. I didn;t want to take it compltely off walkthrough bcause i didn't know what eles you could put there. Anyway didnt know if it was alright or not so i'm asking. Thanks. --VampDrago13 07:20, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, you're doing a great job on the guide. :) As far as structure goes, we do have some formatting guidelines you can read about in our user guide, but for the most part editors get to choose how they want to present their information. It's kind of hard to suggest any layout tips to make it look better when I don't know what you'll be adding, but as you go we can see if tables or templates can help spruce it up.


 * I believe the dungeon page you made was moved to the walkthrough page, as every guide is required to have a walkthrough page. The "Dungeon" links on the Table of Contents and the Custom Nav point to the walkthrough page, so hopefully that satisfies both the functional and stylistic needs of the guide. Thanks for working on the guide, and let me know if you need anything! — najzere T 16:31, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I am finished getting the info for the skill statistics of mages and I tried to find a way to show it wihtout making a giant page but the skills have a lot of levels and effects. So i surfed around and found that the maplestory guide has a template that the chart can be shown or hidden. ([] I want to use it the same way as it conserves space on the page. Though I wasn't sure how to make a version for DFO. I also don't have pictures for the skills yet but still want the chart to show up without them. Also do I need the creator of the templetes permission to morph it into a version for DFO? Sorry for the question bombardment. --VampDrago13 08:24, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No you don't need anyone's permission, just note which template it's modeled after in an edit summary so the original contributor list is accessible. Personally I'd try to make a table from the data first if the skills are related to each other, as it can be sorted for easy comparison. The info in MapleStory/Skill desc templates isn't very useful as it just shows a progression, whereas a table displaying the relative costs and benefits of different skills can help players make skill decisions. It's up to you and it depends on the data as well. Good luck and let me know if you need any help! — najzere T 10:16, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

So maybe if besides just showing a table with the skill progression above it I could write some pros and cons of the skill.--VampDrago13 07:57, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Pokemon PAge Creator
I answered your post on my talk. Drew R. Smith 23:43, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Templates
Answered on my talk. Drew R. Smith 21:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Upload template
I appreciate your work on revising this template, but the message should start with a neutral or positive statement before telling people to change how they add images. This is needed to make the template less aggressive. Please ensure that the template uses an indirect approach to communicate its message. --Tathar (talk | contribs) 01:31, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Category talk:Message templates is where the templates' wordings are being worked out if you'd like to give it a go. upload images starts with a neutral sentence, so maybe you can edit the talk page to show me what you mean. Cheers, — najzere T 11:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Again
I appreciate your welcome and help :). One question, are you the maker of the Red Alert 3 Wiki Guide?--Harrisontran 00:42, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No, that guide has had a few different editors over the last year or so, although I tried implementing a cohesive style for walkthrough pages last December. If you're interested in working on the guide, I think the biggest thing it needs at this point is someone with the know-how to consolidate all the different walkthrough strategies, or at least find some way to organize the page content a little better. If you have RA3-specific things you want to bring up, you can try starting a topic on whichever page you're working on or the game's main talk page, and another editor might be able to chime in or provide some help. Good luck! — najzere T 01:51, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Edit count
Is there a page which will display your edits and categorize them? or an external site such as http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/count_edits (as that one does not seem to work : - Trevman 17:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * For a simple edit count you can look in your preferences. The only edit counter I've ever known to work for us was wannabe kate, but it's no longer being maintained by Interiot. Prod has written his own tool for breaking down StrategyWiki user edits by category, so you could ask him to run it for you when he gets a chance. Hope that helps. :) — najzere T 18:45, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

The edit counter you've made is awesome!!!! The fact I can count the edits and display them on my page in one click without having to actually edit and update the main page is also excellent! GOOD WORK!! - Trevman 17:17, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind words! :D You're not the first person to be interested in a breakdown of their edits (and likely not the last), so hopefully others will appreciate the tool as well. Cheers, — najzere T 17:36, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Screen capture
Do you know if there is any free software that will capture in-game images? - Trevman 09:10, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's hard to find a free one, and I don't know any off the top of my head. Most of the ones I know about are for recording movies from games, but they're all able to take screenshots as well. I use Fraps myself, and if you just want screen grabs, the trial version might be enough for you. I think it limits you to 30 second movies, but it will probably still take screenshots. Other than that, I know of CamStudio, which is open source, but I've never tried it. It's apparently trying to compete with Camtasia Studio. For something else, you'll probably have to do some searching around. Good luck! — najzere T 17:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

CamStudio is good - it doesn't do screenshots, but you can record your game and then play it back and take screenshots of the video ;) - Trevman 16:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Cool, glad to hear it. :) — najzere T 16:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Multiple edit warnings
Alright, thanks for the heads up. And no, I never really did get the ad thing sorted out. I guess I'll just suck it up. @_@ --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 18:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Gracias
Many thanks for that torrent of achievement image uploads; it's much appreciated! :D  — TheTwantalk 00:02, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem! Let me know if I can help with anything else. ME2 looks like it's going to be awesome. :) — najzere T 00:05, 3 January 2010 (UTC)


 * While I can't think of anything specific, if you wanna throw something in, be my guest. I'll take all the help I can get. ;D  — TheTwantalk 00:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Template:Sys
The new version looks a bit complicated. What does it do? -- Prod (Talk) 01:52, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Pretty much the same thing as the old one, except you can suppress the automatic categorization by system and fit more systems into a single heading instead of stacking multiple templates up in the infobox. The real complexity of the template is from dealing with more than two systems and lining up the icons two to a row. It would have been easier to just put category suppression functionality into the old template, but I thought I'd make it more robust while I was in there. To see it action, see Paperboy for 2+ systems to a heading, and Ninja Gaiden II for suppressing categories (the 360 name for the game no longer shows up in the PlayStation 3 category). — najzere T 06:34, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Fight Night Round 4 achievements
The achievements and trophies for the game use different images and the Xbox 360 version has more achievements – wouldn't it be easier for a PlayStation 3 user to see his trophies in a separate table instead of mixed in with 360 ones and the wrong images on some of the PS3 ones? Also, the PS3 version images are now orphaned. — najzere T 23:39, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You are quite right. I have now put the 360-only achievements in their own section as I did for the PC with Dragon Age: Origins/Achievements and trophies (this way the shared ones don't have to be listed more than once) as well as including the image differences (as you did for Battlefield: Bad Company/Achievements and trophies). Anyway, see what you think. :) GarrettTalk 01:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks great! Things get complicated when they're not the same for both systems, huh? Do think we should ever use the control selector on these pages? Maybe just to switch out images or achievement names if there's just a couple different ones? A page like The King of Fighters XII/Achievements and trophies might be a little cleaner with it. Just a thought. :D — najzere T 16:14, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Update: I tested it out the control selector on Star Wars: The Force Unleashed/Achievements and trophies, which has a number of different images depending on the system. Let me know what you think. Thanks, — najzere T 21:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. The problem with that solution is that it makes editing more complex and we don't know what percentage of visitors actually notice the control selector (especially on pages like this that don't have actual controls involved). For that particular example the visual differences are so minor that it probably isn't worth showing both (GTA4 is a similar case--the PS3 trophies use a transparent background but are otherwise identical to the 360 achievements). Major differences (as with Ninja Gaiden II) may eventually become more common, at which point an achievement switch would make sense, but at the moment games only have one or two image differences if any. GarrettTalk 02:36, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, good point, it does make it more complex and who knows if a reader would know what the selector's all about. From what I've seen, pretty much every site has achievements with that gray background... I guess that's how they're displayed wherever they're originally ripped from. I have to think that as time goes on we'll actually see less differences between achievements/trophies, because it's easier for the developers to make a single image. A lot of the differences we're seeing now may be due to retroactively adding trophies, since they weren't mandatory for PS3 games until 2009. I guess we'll have to wait and see. — najzere T 16:02, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Diablo questions
I moved the discussion to Talk: Diablo II, and added another question there. Unsure how to proceed. Jdorje 19:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Achievement tables
I've been including a nowrap parameter in the table cell with the platinum trophy to prevent link breaks within the column, but the same issue is present with the gamerscore column as well. I think it would be a good idea to set the width on the gamerscore and trophy columns in the Achievements Header template to accommodate a three digit gamerscore and a platinum trophy, respectively. What do you think? — najzere T
 * Heh, I have been planning on looking into that very issue. :) The highest achievement value seems to be a achievement(!) in 2006 FIFA World Cup so I guess the column needs to accommodate that at the very least. I'll look into that now. To the sandbox! GarrettTalk 22:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks and good luck! From my initial tests, 40px for gamerscore and 75px for trophies seemed to be sufficient. Cheers, — najzere T 22:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, those dimensions seem about right. Anyway, check out the before and after: User:Garrett/Sandbox. GarrettTalk 00:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks great! — najzere T 00:15, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

hello.
--Playstation3owner 23:20, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi! — najzere T 23:25, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for redirecting, Sim City 2000. --Playstation3owner 23:32, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
Responded to your message at User talk:141.158.176.130. 141.158.176.130 01:18, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Achievement solutions discussion
Your achievement solutions have got me thinking about an official standard layout for such content. I have started a discussion on the subject over on the achievements project talk page. --Garrett (talk) 09:01, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up! — najzere T 16:44, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Tower of Doom
Hey, thanks for your help in getting the Tower of Doom article looking more polished. I had added the "(Intellivision)" qualifier because there's also an arcade game called Tower of Doom, but since its full name is "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Tower of Doom" I think we're OK.

One note: I appreciate your dividing the six level maps into separate pages, but it should be noted that it's not a walkthrough for the whole game (as it now appears), but only for the Novice adventure, which is one of 14 selectable adventures that a player can choose, each with their own maps. I think the subpages should thus follow the format Tower of Doom/Novice/Level 1, or Tower of Doom/Novice (Level 1). Would you mind moving the pages, or (if it's within my power) pointing me to instructions on how to do so? Never mind, I've figured it out (and feel a bit foolish since the link is rather obvious), though I'm not 100% sure how best to deal with the footers.

FYI, I'm in the process of researching this game (see here for a manual), and there are three more adventures to potentially be added: The Tower (8 Levels), The Tower (12 Levels), and The Tower (20 Levels). I don't know yet whether the first two are subsets of the third; if not, we'll definitely need to keep the (N Levels) qualifier for those adventures. The other ten adventures are randomly generated in whole or part, so maps are out, but there may be some consistency in item placement per level, etc. that would justify a walkthrough. Silverspell 18:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for working on the guide some more! In general we try not to make sub-sub-pages, so moving the Novice pages to "Novice level 1" or "Level 1 – Novice" or something like that would be preferred. On the ToC, nothing needs to be changed, as different adventures can have their own headings just as you've already done. Is that an agreeable solution? For the footer navs, you'd have to make use of the prevname and nextname parameters to show different link text (another reason why we try not to sub-sub-page). For example:
 *  
 * As you can see, it's a little cumbersome. By the way, do the levels have names in the game? It would be nice to use those if they do. Let me know what you want to do and I'll try to help out with the cleanup as much as I can! :) — najzere T 19:48, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your quick reply! I've used the format "Novice - Level 1" which seems optimal to me;  hopefully that's OK.  This also simplifies the footer problems I was having, which were I think a direct consequence of the sub-sub-page issue.  Unfortunately the individual tower levels don't have names, or at least none are mentioned in-game or in the manual.  I'm also hoping to find out if there are any "official" names for the monsters and magic items (other than their general class);  again, there are none in the manual, but there may be internal company docs, recollections from the programmers, or some prior strategy guide to use as a naming template (though I've never seen one for this game). Silverspell 20:40, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making those changes. Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you with this guide! Good luck and let me know if you need help with anything. :) — najzere T 20:42, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Achievement tables (again)
Maybe it's just me, but do you think the tables would look better with both gamerscore and trophy columns the same width? — najzere T 23:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea, but it looks a bit awkward. :( The problem is that the trophy names are significantly wider than even the highest achievement value. An alternate possibility would be to make the images a bit bigger and abandon the text altogether; the PS3 itself does it this way as do all trophy sites, and those specifically looking for trophies will probably know how the categories work anyway. --Garrett (talk) 00:22, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it looks good with both columns the same width regardless of what you want to do with the trophies. I'd be fine with dropping the text that goes along with it though. It can always be added by hand if you ever wanted it for something else. — najzere T 00:26, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Template:~
If the ToC is ever used in a expansion pack it will completely mess up all the links. I also disagree with it only being useful on ToC pages. When I was working on the Ratchet & Clank 3 guide, I found that I knew the name of the page I wanted, but didn't want to break from working on the guide to find the page, copy the whole title (or type it out) and link it. It was far easier to just use the template. The ToCs are just tons of copy pasting of names/links and usually you can spend another minute or two writing in the full names (or pasting) since that will usually be done separate from writing the actual guide. -- Prod (Talk) 07:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You know wiki markup comes with a shortcut, right? ( ../ Pagename) I made a note about it on the template's talk page. Although it's still useful on the majority of ToCs, you never know when a subtoc might be added, so I don't really see any use for it. The whole template seems like a silly waste, since it just reproduces normal wiki markup in an unintuitive way. — najzere T 07:48, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed that it's starting to seem almost useless. The only benefit is that it's a "cleaner" view in the code.  However, I would say it's slightly more intuitive than using the ../ notation, which is only obvious to dos and *nix users, though neither would be easily found by the average user.  -- Prod (Talk) 08:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Since everyone learns how to make a link before using a template, I have to disagree that substituting .. in place of the base page name is less intuitive than using a separate template. Anyway, I'm surprised you'd be in favor of anything that replaces normal markup, as that's been your argument for deleting other templates in the past. — najzere T 08:25, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm actually ambivalent at this point. I'll have to revisit this in a few days after it's had some time to sink in.  However, for now I still am going to remove it from all ToC pages. -- Prod (Talk) 08:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

SVG
I've forgotten what was broken (or thought we had it fixed). Do you have an example? -- Prod (Talk) 21:01, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Flag of South Africa.svg was the first place I noticed it. Now that File:Drift City Team Roo Logo.svg has been reuploaded though, I'm not sure if it's just the image info page that doesn't preview it, or if only SVGs that were uploaded prior to it breaking are okay. I haven't noticed any problems with existing SVGs (e.g. all the country flags), but I'm not sure if I tried seeing the Flag of Africa on a guide page before I deleted it. When I asked about it, DrBob said SVGs were broken, so I didn't investigate too hard. — najzere T 21:21, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Update: Naw, the Flag of South Africa displays as a link to the image page when you try to use it. — najzere T 21:29, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed the second image. The first is being a bit more stubborn. It appears to just be a problem with more complex images. -- Prod (Talk) 21:59, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah okay. I tried replacing it with the exact one from Commons, but it still has issues. — najzere T 22:03, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Apparently rsvg can't handle clipping. I've modified the file and now it appears to render properly. -- Prod (Talk) 22:56, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Huh, interesting. The clip-path defined a 45×30 area, which is what was displaying on the image page. I wonder if they disable clip-paths on Commons and Wikipedia. EDIT: Sounds like this issue. Maybe a new version of RSVG would help. — najzere T 23:11, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It says confirmed on 2.16.1, which is the version we're currently running, so I'm not sure if it means confirmed working or not working. It appears that the latest is 2.26.0 so I'll ask if we can have it updated. -- Prod (Talk) 02:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: BS Zelda: Kodai no Sekiban/Printable version deletion
Hi, I've marked BS Zelda: Kodai no Sekiban/Printable version for deletion and see you are the main contributor. Is this page necessary for any reason, or is it a holdover from Wikibooks or an earlier era of StrategyWiki? Just wanted to give you a heads up. Thanks, — najzere T 18:58, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, it's a long story. The bottom line is that it isn't necessary. When and if printing becomes a truly desirable feature it would be much better to install the collection extension which offers output to PDF and even the option of ordering a printed book. --Garrett (talk) 19:39, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

House of the Dead Overkill and The Conduit
After looking at what you did with Scarface: The World is Yours in which you manage to turn an IGN guide page into a Strategy Wiki game guide. My mind pounded for a long time and I thought that it should also work for these guides I'm planning to do. Anyway, I'm wondering if you can download the two and send it to me. I have not since ever signed in to IGN and I'm already signed to Gamespot. My email address is johnnyauau2000@yahoo.com.au and it should be a bit of a long name. If it works, it should give me more confidence about doing guides but as usual I couldn't do it without a place where you get the ideas from. Take your time and even if you can't help me, you can direct me to places where I haven't looked at before. Johnnyauau2000 11:27, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * To be very clear, the source for Scarface: The World Is Yours has specific wording in it, allowing anyone to use it:

"If you wish to use this guide in whatever capacity then feel free to use it, a little credit would be nice."

- Jallen9000


 * It's very important to understand that we cannot take whatever we want from other guides. There must be explicit wording in the document saying you can use it or you must get written permission from the author. That being said, I don't see any compatibly licensed guides for the games you want, so there's nothing to "download", sorry. If you ever find a guide that you want to import to StrategyWiki, please tell me about it before you do so, so I can check it out. After the Age of Empires II import, you really can't afford to make another mistake concerning copyright infringement, so I'll verify anything you want to bring in beforehand. Sorry I couldn't be of greater assistance, but check back on any other games you're working on and maybe we can find something out there you can use. Good luck! — najzere T 16:53, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok. Sorry about that. I didn't want to touch your nerve like that. I'll avoid plagarism from now on. Anyway, I better let you continue on your work. Johnnyauau2000 00:07, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Giving credit to the source
Hello Najzere, I'm currently working on the Gothic 2 Pages and want to give credit to my source. I didn't find any exact order where I could put this information down. Thanks for your help, have a nice day. -- Khobar 08:43, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Anytime you want to give credit, you can put it in the edit summary where it will persist in the page's history. Just so you know, you don't need to credit references (but you're certainly welcome to), just sources where you copy/pasted and you have permission to use the work. Hope that helps, and thanks for working on the guide! — najzere T 09:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: HerbLocationsVV3.png copyright problem
Hi, the image you've uploaded (Image:HerbLocationsVV3.png) is not a free image. The underlying image is fine to use under fair use, but we can make no such claim to the diagramming on top. If you could find the screenshot they used in the game, it wouldn't be too hard to reproduce what they've done (or make it look better), and then it would be your own work. The other option is to ask virtualvillagers3.net for permission to use the image and publish it under our CC-BY-SA license. Let me know if you're going to contact the copyright holder and I'll refrain from deleting the image until you've gotten a response. If you have the screenshot, I'd also be happy to help put the information back on with a graphics program. Thanks for understanding! — najzere T 18:13, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi there Najzere, I will take a printscreen of the game and make a better one. Sorry if it took me a long time to reply. Have a nice day DJ K-Jtan 19:06, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, thanks for helping to resolve this issue! — najzere T 20:19, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Category suppression templates
 I like the idea, but I'd suggest putting them at sys/nocat instead (and the same for the others), since they're just "special" cases of the main template. It also avoids increasing the amount of transclusion of these high-use templates. -- Prod (Talk) 20:49, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, sounds good. — najzere T 20:52, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * We could go with rd/nocat and do what you had before, first parameter of the relevant country. We could also reuse the current country specific templates, by adding a fourth |nocat (or numbered) parameter, which is hardcoded into rd/nocat and passed through to release date, though this will require modifications to all the current rd-style templates.  Alternatively, we could create one for each country rd, but that also causes problems for maintenance. -- Prod (Talk) 21:57, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the easiest thing to do is just use one template for all of them. rd/nocat is probably the best, as it's the generic instance. The thing I liked about using one template for sys, co and rds, is it kept the syntax consistent over all cases. Now the rd one has the extra parameter, so it feels kind of awkward. Is multiple transclusions a big deal considering few guides will need to use the uncategorized versions? — najzere T 22:03, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * In a way, rd always had that extra parameter, it was just implied (we dropped the 'rd'). For me, I prefer to keep the templates separate, rather than getting them too closely linked.  The template code is also easier to read that way. -- Prod (Talk) 22:36, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You know, I can hardly ever understand your reasoning these days. You're like a different Prod from last year before your long break. But whatever. — najzere T 22:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been distracted far too much by work, and with DrBob on an extended break as well, I've got noone left to argue with. (note that this is a veiled attempt to get you on either gtalk or msn ;)). -- Prod (Talk) 00:25, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been distracted far too much by work, and with DrBob on an extended break as well, I've got noone left to argue with. (note that this is a veiled attempt to get you on either gtalk or msn ;)). -- Prod (Talk) 00:25, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Image uploads
Yeah, sorry about that. =] It's remembered for next time. --E-123Wario54 22:40, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

It's like an arcade-type shooter--short, but addicting. I bought it because there's a "10 for '10" sale at the PlayStation Store. =D Thanks for fixing the categories. --E-123Wario54 22:43, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds cool. No problem about the fixes! — najzere T 22:48, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright. Thanks for all the help. =) --E-123Wario54 00:24, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, keep up the great work! :) — najzere T 00:32, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, keep up the great work! :) — najzere T 00:32, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Noticeboard
 I'd have liked to see things like that go in the forums, but I don't think enough people would notice. It would have to be manually updated to fulfill the stated purpose, but it does sound useful. It could actually go beyond that and just be a place to throw a link if something seems like it might be important to more than just the parties involved. Things like major reorganizations of a large guide, or a new interesting template being created. -- Prod (Talk) 03:18, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it could have more diverse uses. It would have to be manually updated, but only by the person who wants to serve notice. It would be to their benefit if they're trying to raise awareness, and I think it should be mandatory for anyone proposing deletion. Besides the whole idea of going offsite to comment on this one being absurd, the forums also lack the ability to be watchlisted. Then again, the staff lounge is likely on all the admins' watchlists but that certainly doesn't make them any more active. Anyway, are Bulletin board or Noticeboard okay destinations? — najzere T 07:19, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * With the forums, new topics/posts always show up as unread, so anything new would be easy to pick out. Either of those names sound good to me. -- Prod (Talk) 16:25, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not easy to pick out on this site. Why should users have to keep eyes on two separate sites to be current on the one site they edit and care about? That's nice that it's easy to see unread posts on abxy, but I don't give a shit about abxy and I think it's a bad idea to put roadblocks in the way users of this site easily maintaining one repository for all things StrategyWiki. Almost half our namespaces are devoted to discussion, there's really no excuse for not using them. Much larger and more active sites than ours seem to do fine hosting their policy discussions on-wiki. The whole SW-abxy mashup is a transparent attempt to force these two sites together because there is an overlap in staff/ownership between the two. — najzere T 17:00, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikis are for collaborate editing, forums are discussion. There's a place to discuss on wikis, but they are lacking some of the more advanced features.  Apps should be used for what they're made for. -- Prod (Talk) 17:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Not that I even know what you're talking about, as I didn't notice any "advanced features" on the forums, but what more do you need for a discussion than a way to put down your words and perhaps create a link? Formatting text is even easier on the wiki. The issue isn't about apps or any other bullshit smokescreens – it's about making editors jump through hoops to have a voice in what goes on on this wiki. If we ever become a highly trafficked site, the deleterious effect of this unintuitive approach to policy-making will become a lot clearer, as the divide between active users and participation on the forums increases. The sad thing is we will never know the actual extent of the harm, as it's impossible to measure how many people might have added to community discussions were they located at an accessible venue. — najzere T 17:33, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * When we become a highly trafficked site in the future, the two two sites will be much better integrated (more traffic, more money, more development). If wikis were good for discussions, we could have non-guide-creation related discussions here. Forums are much better organized (hierarchical structure), it's easier to track peoples posts (see all their posts from one page instead of visiting each one by one), etc.  -- Prod (Talk) 19:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * LOL. If it was a good idea to have discussions on an external site there would be no impetus for them to be "better integrated". I know you largely ignore them, but we have non-guide-creation discussions all the time on the staff lounge, so wtf are you talking about? Lastly, how would looking at the entirety of someone's posts help discussion? (This can be achieved through Special:Contributions, as I'm sure you're aware.) Surely you don't need to look at a person's post history to see whether they have a valid point in a given discussion. On a side note about how we'll have more development with more traffic and money, we could have plenty of development if the bureaucrats of this wiki were more involved. Unless you're saying you need to be paid for your services or our pagerank doesn't merit your time, I don't see how this will be improved with higher pageviews and revenue. You either want to work on the wiki or you don't. — najzere T 19:27, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * But there is reason for better integration, and it's not only about discussions about the wiki, but creating a broader community. I have an extremely busy job, I can't keep track of everything, however much I try, a question between my livelihood and hobby, you can guess which wins.  However, I'd prefer we kept the discussion about the site, rather than about me. Staff lounge is for people to get help on how to do stuff on the wiki.  The forums are for larger discussions, not helping newbies.  Even if a discussion fizzles, the info is kept together, rather than having to be linked from each successive discussion like the control table discussion.  "How do I do this" questions are usually sent to the forums or irc.  I don't need to point out the differences between: abxy posts and Special:Contributions/Prod, I find the former more useful and intuitive.  Bureaucrats aren't developers and most don't have access to the code that runs sw and abxy.  Our developers are paid, and I'm hoping to bring that into the wiki sometime as well, but it's a much more complicated task. -- Prod (Talk) 20:12, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

┌───────────────────────┘

First of all, if a decision on a discussion was ever reached, it could be added to the appropriate guideline or policy page, so further discussions wouldn't be needed. Consensus is impossible to reach when bureaucrats don't bother to opine in policy discussions. The fact that policy-related discussions even occur on the staff lounge and not the forums (by others than just myself!), is valid evidence that going offsite isn't a good way to proceed. I understand that SW is a hobby for everyone and no one gets paid (except for developers, I guess), which only means that when you can no longer contribute the time to meet the minimum obligations of the post you took on, you should relinquish the bit and pass the torch. I'm pretty sure you all (bureaucrats) can find the time to make a comment in a discussion, since you're more than happy to respond when the topic interests you. To me that's the least you can do while you sit there saying you're a bureaucrat interested in guiding the growth and direction of the wiki. Let me know if you want specific examples for anything (e.g. which topics bureaucrats like to respond to, which topics quietly died with zero input, etc.). — najzere T 20:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I must admit I'm not actually sure what the point of this discussion is (though I'm sure you've figured out I do love to discuss/argue about stuff)... I definitely like the noticeboard since it'll help me keep appraised of new things that are happening (which is why I added the date, that would be my preferred method of sorting). -- Prod (Talk) 20:56, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The point of the noticeboard is to hit your watchlist, at which point you look at it to see what was added and if you care, follow up on it. I don't see why the date is important (how does this help notify you?). I had in mind for the page to simply be a tool to get on watchlists, and adding a line to the table serves that purpose as well as adding a link to a section, so whatever. It just makes it harder for me to easily find what I want by jumping to the appropriate section through the toc. It seems like you may want to use it as a place for finding items that need administrator attention, but that wasn't the purpose I had in mind (you can go to the appropriate categories if you want to process these things). As for the point of the sidetracked discussion above, it was to air my grievances with the current system of inertia. I'm happy to continue ranting as long as you care to discuss it. — najzere T 21:18, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Watchlist only shows the latest change. I don't usually get to visit every day, and having the dates shows which have appeared since the last time.  It also shows how long a discussion has been going so the ones which are lagging can be prioritized. -- Prod (Talk) 21:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You can set your watchlist to expand for all changes instead of most recent in your preferences. Lagging items should be dealt with in their respective categories. The problem I see with expanding the scope of the page, is it starts to encroach on other processes already in place, such as cleanup categories, the staff lounge, and (dare I say it!) the forums. The changes you've made don't preclude people using the page how I originally envisioned it, so it's no big deal. Let's just keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn't turn into something it's not. — najzere T 21:42, 27 January 2010 (UTC)