User talk:Myth

Welcome to StrategyWiki!
Hello Myth! Welcome to StrategyWiki. Thank you for your contributions. If you have any questions, just contact a sysop through their talk page or post on the staff lounge, and they'd be happy to help. If you need help editing, check the StrategyWiki Guide. If you have a question about the content on this wiki, you can check out our staff lounge page. If you want to ask questions or hang out in IRC, we're usually around. On the other hand, if you have ideas for StrategyWiki, bring them up on the community portal talk page. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (    ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field as this helps to document all of your hard work. Feel free to delete this message from your talk page if you like, or keep it for reference. Happy editing! -- Prod (Talk) 19:26, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

Editing Tips
Hello Myth! I've noticed you've been making a few edits lately and I thought that I'd drop by and give you a few tips. (centered text)
 * Use the "new guide page" preload button whenever making a new guide page to populate it with the proper formatting (like the Header Nav)
 * Check out the wiki markup section of the guide to using StrategyWiki.
 * Don't put spaces before your text that you write, as it treats it as preformatted (where no wiki markup works and the font face changes)
 * Don't repeat a page's name on the page. It is already at the top and does not need to be stated twice
 * If you want to center your text, enclose the text inside of (centered text), it appears like so:
 * Don't center major points, but instead make them headings (enclose them within two equal signs - ==Important Heading== ). That produces a bar like the one above that says "Editing Tips."
 * Read the rest of the guide to using StrategyWiki

Keep these in mind while making future edits, and you'll be doing just fine! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:41, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Also, don't add your signature to non-talk pages. It degrades from our goal to have professional-looking guides, and attribution to your work can always be found on the page's history and in your contributions. If you want to test out how to do something, please use the sandbox instead. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:53, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't create categories unless they are for good reason. Categories are designed to hold pages with similar content for easier navigation between them. Creating vanity categories or categories that don't really contribute that much to StrategyWiki is discouraged against, and such categories will be deleted. Thank you (and please please please please please please please read the StrategyWiki Guide)! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 21:41, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

If someone makes a change, and you'd like to know how it was done, easiest way is to check the history pages and click the "last" links. It shows exactly what changes were made, and how it affected the content. -- Prod (Talk) 16:37, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

What you did
At the beginning, I was referring to when you were creating the pages in Spectrobes. While it can be expected that every new user won't know our guidelines (which is what the welcome notice is for), it usually is not a good idea to continue editing in a fashion that makes you seem like you haven't read your talk page. Specifically, I was referring to your lack of using the "new guide page" button over the edit box when creating a new guide page, and the fact that you kept trying to space out everything with actual spaces (putting 1+ spaces before the first word in a paragraph puts it into a different font and negates any formatting that you try to add to it). I'm truly sorry that I exploded on you like that, but I didn't think that you were taking the time out to read your talk page and our guidelines--although now I know that you did. As for the categories, see my above message (and feel free to remove any of those messages--it IS your talk page after all). For reference, you need to hit "return" or "enter" twice before it starts a new paragraph, and you can indent paragraphs by putting a colon before the first letter (not by hitting "tab"). Numbered lists are created by starting a new line and putting # before the first letter (bulleted lists with * instead). If you have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page or in the staff lounge. Again, I'm sorry that I blew up like that, and your edits DO help contribute to StrategyWiki. Thank you. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 21:51, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

What you continue to do...
Myth, I highly recommend that you take Ryan's suggestion very seriously. One major rule that you are not adhering to is maintaining NPOV, or a Neutral Point of View. That means refraining from ever using "I" or "me" in the body of your writing. While our guidelines may appear excessive and discouraging to new editors, we enforce these rules for a very good reason. We are extremely serious about the quality of the writing on this site, and we ask for the very best from every single editor who joins our community. You are not being singled out in any way. When a new editor insists on using a different style from the rest of the site, it becomes a waste of time for everyone. It's a waste of time for us because we need to rewrite the sections that you wrote, and it's a waste of time for you because much of what you wrote will only end up being replaced. Please don't take any of this as criticism or rejection, I know how easy that is to do. We welcome anyone and everyone to join the project hosted by this site, but we do ask that everyone conform to a certain range of style that has been thoroughly discussed and agreed upon. Thanks very much for your cooperation. Procyon (Talk) 22:09, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Myth, if it's personal choice, feel free to submit your content to one of us (any "regular" user, you'll find us on most talk pages and the community portal) for review and then we can either post it for you or just send it back. Otherwise, definitely get used to it.  It's not just StrategyWiki, it's all Wiki's.  Plus, when you're reading another guide, you're not even going to know who wrote it so it's completely unnecessary.  If you're feeling singled out, I can gaurentee you I've gotten a lot more crap for just being me than you probably will.  If you like to contribute, I encourage you to do it for yourself rather than for others.  It's fun; don't even let the admins get to you. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 23:43, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

Contributions
Hey, welcome again. Unfortunately, for the moment we have very few people around here. We're working on ways to attract people, as well as trying to maintain the "feel" of the website at the same time (those two don't always go together as I think you saw :P). I would personally disagree with the suggestion above of submitting info for review and then having them post up the info. Just put up the info wherever you think it belongs, with whatever formatting you believe is correct. At least one or two of the sysops will end up looking over your edits within a day or two, and will make changes accordingly (or if it's major, leave a message on your talk page). Just be sure to keep all pages you edit in your watchlist and pay attention to the changes made. If you are unsure about something, ask on any of our talk pages, or the Staff lounge. Happy editing! -- Prod (Talk) 12:06, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I just wanted to back Prod up here on this one. You should never feel afraid to post your own contributions here.  The longer you contribute to SW, the more natural it will become, and pretty soon, you'll be helping the rest of us welcome and correct new users as well.  The only way to get to that level is to practice, so please continue doing what you're doing, but don't be afraid to read the guide, ask questions, or even look at how other guides have already been set up.  That was how I learned best, just by looking at other examples of people's work. Procyon (Talk) 12:30, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

Spectrobes/Kollin suggestions
Hi Myth. Since you asked for some feedback, here is mine. I don't know anything about the game, so the only thing that I am commenting on is the formatting. Please learn how to make use of headers. See The Tower of Druaga (PCE)/How to play as one of many good examples on how to make use of headers. Boss Battle, for example should be made at least a level 3 (three equal signs) header. Additionally, I know that what I'm about to suggest is difficult for a majority of users to do, but artwork and screenshots goes a long way to improve the look of a page. Even if you can't capture any screen images, if you can find and upload artwork of the boss that you are talking about there, it would help the page a lot. But this is usually not something that the average editor is confident doing, so don't worry about it too much. Procyon (Talk) 14:51, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I think he removed the second note because finding items on the items page is somewhat self explanatory. If you believe it is important, feel free to re-add the link (the standard wiki motto is Be Bold!).  -- Prod (Talk) 20:56, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I added the link back (in a way). -- Prod (Talk) 23:04, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

Spectrobes
Hello, Myth, welcome to Strategy Wiki. I got your message, and to address your suggestion on Nessa, I have beaten the game as well, and am unable to return to the keystone area. Sorry. I love having someone else around to work on Spectrobes. Alot of the games that I own, like and create articles for here on Strategy Wiki lack contributors, so I amalways extatic to have someone else to collaborate on an article with. I would like to work on the Spectrobes article (Psshhhh...I probably will :-D), but I am tied up at the moment working on other articles. Thanks for the suggestion though. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 17:47, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

NDS Buttons
Have a look at Category:Nintendo DS controller buttons. A lot of our buttons were very specially crafted for this site by User:Blendmaster and he always makes sure to include a template to make depositing button images into guides very easy. In the case of the Nintendo DS, that template is Template:Ds. If you check that page out, you will see some examples of how to use it towards the bottom. So if you would like the button to appear, all you need to type into your guide is  and viola. When you want to indicate directions on the D-pad, you need to type it out like so: and replace Up with whatever direction you prefer (capitalized). Let me know if you have any other questions. Procyon (Talk) 17:56, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

Spectrobes/Genshi
Just do it however you want to do it. If somebody doesn't like the way something is formatted or worded, they'll probably just change it (they MIGHT suggest it on the talk page first, but that would be unlikely to happen). Once it is done, I'll probably come by and clean it up a bit, but content-wise, I'm probably the last person you should ask (as I know squat about Spectrobes).

Also, I usually reply to messages left on my talk page locally (as in, I don't keep a one-sided dialog on my talk page and the other side on someone else's talk page), so if you ask me a question, you should probably check recent changes to see if I replied (my summary for replies is almost always "reply"). And finally, when I was referring to content being deleted, I was referring to the entirety of the content that was added, not just a small part of it (which is the difference between "reverted" and "cleanup"). --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 22:07, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

I fixed your request
You actually put your request where the request template was supposed to be. When you want to request something, you copy the contents inside the template and paste it above, filling in the appropriate information. I did it for you on your behalf. But the fact is, few people actually pay attention to that page. The whole point of StrategyWiki is, if you see a game that doesn't have a guide, you start one yourself. If you don't see a guide about, say, Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness, that means no one has come along with an interest in making one. Nothing ends up on StartegyWiki unless someone makes an effort to create it. Since we don't have an official staff, and no one gets paid to write any of the content here, we each just work on what we enjoy. That's why I work on all of the classic games (see my page). Procyon (Talk) 22:59, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * What did you alter your signature on the request page for? I fixed it again.  Procyon (Talk) 23:08, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness
Hey, I saw the discussion on the community issues and wanted to let you know, I have a friend who owns the game who I might be able to get interested in Strategy Wiki (I have already recruited one friend, I will not give up on recruiting another!). Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 12:36, 20 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness Created. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 12:50, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

"New Guide Page" preload
Hey Myth, glad to see you've discovered the preload templates! However, there are a few things you need to know about them (especially the "new guide page" one, as it will be used a LOT). It seems that you've taken out the comments (the words enclosed in the that don't show up on the article itself, only in the edit box), which is good, but there are a few other things that you've missed. First of all, fill in prevpage= and nextpage= in the Footer Nav to correspond with the previous page and the next page, or remove it entirely. Also, the content of the page should go between the Header Nav and Footer Nav (like so, using the Guide as the example guide):

Content goes here, between the two navs

Just keep that in mind (and use the "show preview" button to see what the page looks like before you save), and you'll be on your way to giving other users advice on how to edit! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:00, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * After you read the previous comment, go ahead and remove the example with the navs (as the Header Nav automatically categorises everything either under Category:Games or Category:Sub-pages)

Two things:

 * 1) I undid your revision to the Action Genre in the Game categories page.  The games listed on that page are meant to be definitive examples of the genre they are listed under and should, for the time being, remain unchanged.  Only add a game under a genre on the game categories page if it is a clear example of a game that should be there (for example, if for some reason Tetris was missing from the Puzzle genre or Street Fighter II was missing from the Fighting genre, then you'd want to add them.)  Your game will end up in the Action genre category by virtue of the Action category label that is added to the front page of the guide.
 * 2) With regards to your comments about Pokémon Mysterious Dungeon, there is never such a thing as "too much" information.  Information can be poorly written, and can be too wordy, but if that guide contains a floor by floor breakdown, then it is far more complete than if it had a general descriptions for only certain floors.  Never assume that you know what a reader would like to see, or that they will only be interested in the information that you are interested in.  Make it your goal to describe every conceivable piece of information about the games that you write about.  A guide can be considered complete with considerably less, but in reality, for our guides to be truly complete, the programmers who made the game should be able to completely reprogram the game in it's entirety based off of what we have in our guides.  That doesn't mean that you have to knock yourself out and try to do that.  The only reason I say that is to emphasize: There's no such thing as too much information.  Procyon (Talk) 21:11, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Please note, Procyon, that I answered your second question on your talk page, but I have decided to answer all questions here from now on, to avoid confusion. Thank you.

Now, I would like to inform you that I put Spectrobes in the section of Action/Adventure because it didn't even exist on the category page. I put it there because it needed to be categorized and I figured that was the best place to put it. So can you please undo your revision?? Sincerely, Myth 22:56, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The game is classified under Category:Action and Category:RPG. Also, the main benefit of answering on the other person's talk page is the nice yellow banner it gives the person to notify them of the change, especially if they don't patrol Recent Changes, or have your page on their watch list. -- Prod (Talk) 23:01, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * lol, fortunately, I am that crazy that I patrol Recent Changes on a daily basis, so I would have seen your response here, but Prod is right, it is a general courtesy to respond on someone elses user page unless you know they are likely to check back here (like if you were having an ongoing discussion or something...) but anyway... I hope you understood Prod's response, a link to the Spectrobes guide does in fact exist in the Action and RPG Categories, and the games listed on the Game categories page are intended as obvious examples in case someone out there actually had no idea what was meant by an Action game (not that you'd expect too many people to fall under that category, but you never know.) Anyway, I think as you spend more time here, you'll realize that all the little details that you think might be missing are in fact there, they just might not be as obvious as they could be.  And if you have any ideas on how to make things more obvious, always feel free to voice your opinion on the Community Issues page.  Take care.  Procyon (Talk) 23:40, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I just wanted to drop one more note here, because I read your response on the Staff Lounge page, and I wasn't quite sure if you understood what Prod was trying to tell you. You are pretty much the primary contributor to Spectrobes, and as such, you are in the best position to determine the completeness of the guide.  Whenever you feel that the guide has graduated to a new level of completeness, you are welcome to change that number at any time.  Someone may disagree with you and change it back or something, but you can hash that out if and when that ever occurs (which is rare.) Procyon (Talk) 16:22, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

I took care of the table in Spectrobes for you. You know Myth... you could have learned how to fix the table on your own, if you would take our advice and read the writing guide... ⌐_⌐; Rocky started out a lot like you, and now he's a Sysop and one of the leading contributors to the site. But he only became that way when he started to make an effort to learn things and figure things out on his own. I'm sure you can become just as accomplished as Rocky, but you have to put your mind to it. Good luck! Procyon (Talk) 21:51, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

Introduction heading
With longer pages (and longer intro paragraphs), when the ToC shows up, it looks a bit better. I find it somewhat odd that the "Walkthrough" pages are so short. Is this their final length, or do you expect them to grow? -- Prod (Talk) 11:41, 24 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I redid Spectrobes/Kollin a bit. With a longer intro paragraph I think it looks OK without the header.  What do you think? --
 * Perhaps add a section on shops? Actually, check out Pokémon Red and Blue/Viridian City for one thing you can do to show what is sold in each shop.  One major reason I removed the header is also because the name is already at the top of the page, so repeating it again is a bit redundant. -- Prod (Talk) 13:43, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Page conformity
Hi Myth. I understand some of the frustration you are having regarding the layout of certain pages, the placement of introductions, and the use of headers. There is one reason, and one reason only, why Prod is assisting you with these corrections, and why we try to stress them as much as we do. We would like the visitors to StrategyWiki to have a consistent experience from one guide to the next. The more similar each guide is, the easier it is for visitors to become accustomed to the site and navigate to the section they are interested in. This does not mean that you have no say in how your information should be arranged or laid out, because the guidelines have a lot of flexibility when it comes to content. And you are also encouraged to voice your disagreement with certain layout guidelines if you feel strongly about them. However, the guidelines, as they stand today, are the result of a lot of people (with just as strong feelings as you) coming together, making compromises, and ultimately deciding upon what works best for the site. Until you have been here for some time, I encourage to live with some of Prod's modification and see if they grow on you. I also encourage you to explore other completed guides to see what other people have done. Who knows, you might even gain some inspiration from them. Take care. Procyon (Talk) 13:28, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Completeness
I've noticed that you've said on Prod's talk page that Spectrobes/Kollin is a complete walkthrough of the planet, and frankly, that scares me. First of all, nothing is ever "complete" as it can always be improved upon. Secondly, you don't have any images whatsoever on the page (not counting controller buttons, since they don't count). Also, a map always does wonders. Plus, if there are any extras that could be had or sidequests to do, they should be mentioned. If you need some more to write about, how about a detailed walkthrough of how to get to the boss? That should add a paragraph or five content-wise. Finally, I believe I've previously pointed you here, but I'll point you there again, as it includes pretty much everything a finished page should have in it (finished, not "complete", there always something to improve). --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 16:27, 24 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I think that Myth, as a Wikipedian transplant, may not be as familiar with our notion of complete, but it is also not entirely on Myth's shoulders to flesh all of the walkthrough out. Myth, if your contributions are complete, that's entirely OK.  You've done a good job setting up a framework that can (and should) be fleshed out by others that come behind you, but you should feel free to contribute whatever level of effort you are so inclined.  However, please understand that Ryan's point is well taken; nothing can every truly be complete, and there's always corrections and additions that will take place on the walkthrough for quite some time.  I just don't want to scare you away from the level of quality that we tend to expect from editors around here (and you've received more than you share of brow beating since you've been here.) Procyon (Talk) 16:39, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Screenshots
There are a few reliable ways to get screenshots from a game: Then, after you've found the screenshot(s) that you like, and have them saved, click on the "Upload file" link at the side of the page (or click here), browse to the file that you want to upload, modify the name as per image naming conventions (pretty much just name it Spectrobes_[pick something].[ext]). Then, add a suitable description and a few categories to the image (at least one is required), and click "upload." My recommendation is that you try to get the image to be a .png with transparency if at all possible, if not, try .jpg or .gif (NEVER do .bmp--they don't work!). If you have any questions about that, feel free to ask me or ask at the staff lounge. Oh yeah, after you upload the image, add it to a page with (obviously, with [pick something] and [ext] replaced with other text). Cheers! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 19:34, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Take a picture of the TV - I really don't recommend this way as it might leave wierd lines across the screen (can't remember what they're called), but it gets the job done to a point where it is recognizable (if your TV has a "still screen" option, that's even better, as those lines are less apparent).
 * If you somehow manage to find an emulation of the game (highly unlikely, but one might exist), you can just take normal screenshots via the "print screen" or comparable button on your keyboard. Again, I don't know of that many DS emulations out there right now, and even if I did, I couldn't tell you or link you to them for legal reasons (but I don't).
 * Do an image search on Google or Yahoo or some other search engine to see what screens you can find. You may also want to do a normal search and include the word "screenshot," as a lot of screens don't actually appear on the image search.
 * Find the screenshot in some kind of gaming magazine and scan it into your computer.
 * Take a look here for a link to a nintendo DS emulator and the discussion about emulators on our site.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 05:03, 26 May 2007 (CDT)

Twilight Princess contributor
Myth, you do realize that you can see everyone who has ever edited a page by looking at the history, right? There's rarely ever one author on any given guide, it's normally a collaboration on many people's part. Although in the case of Twilight Princess, Ryan was the major contributor, followed by Prod and a few others. Procyon (Talk) 00:28, 26 May 2007 (CDT)

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess/Enemy List
I've noticed that you've added a strategy to beating Diababa to the Enemy List, and it looks good! Please note, however, that this strategy also exists on the Forest Temple page. Therefore, any improvements you make to one should ideally be made to the other one. Also, check out the enemy list's talk page and voice your opinion about that if you so wish. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 14:00, 27 May 2007 (CDT)

Pokémon/Pokédex
IS Grass/Poison by the way (Follow the link if you don't believe me). The type of the pokémon is determined by the newest game (in this case Diamond/Pearl). While it may not be Grass/Poison in RBY or GSC, it is in DP, so that's what it is. Whenever you aren't sure, just follow the link in the dex to get to Bulbapedia, which has up-to-date info on the pokémon. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:22, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It's Grass/Poison in my blue, silver and ruby, it was a shock to me too :P--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 03:00, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

Staff Lounge comments
Myth, please do not take what I'm about to say the wrong way. The Staff Lounge was not the appropriate place to put your comments. The Community Issues page might have been a better location, but I moved your Pokemon request to the Diamond and Pearl talk page where I felt it belonged, and where I would have left similar comments. Furthermore, the "great" copy/paste tip was thoughtful on your part, but in all sincerity, it is by far one of the most well known editing tools around. Ryan even suggested that, failing the Alt+130 trick, that you simply copy and paste the text wherever you need it. I removed it from the staff lounge page so that it wouldn't make your appear too "noobish." As for why you can't make Alt+130 to work, I haven't the vaguest idea why you can't do it. It works universally on every PC. Just to make sure you understand how it works again, you press and hold down the Alt key. Then, using only the numbers on the numpad on the right side of your keyboard (not the numbers above the letters) you type 1, 3, and 0. Then when you release the Alt key, é should appear. You have to keep Alt held down the entire time, and you must use the numpad numbers. It should work every time. Procyon (Talk) 11:56, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * One more thing, it's sort of considered "rude" to request that others do work that you would like to see done when you can just as easily do it yourself. If you feel that the Pokédex is incomplete, then by all means, help to complete it.  If the missing images are a problem, someone will come along and help you with them.  Procyon (Talk) 11:59, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * There's no need to apologize, and no one expects you to know everything. We all learn new stuff as we go along.   I'm learning new things all the time here.  I'm not judging you in any way, I'm just trying to be as helpful as I can be.  The staff lounge is primarily to discuss site concerns, or for questions that arise when things don't work they way they were expected to (for example, if a table wasn't displaying properly and you couldn't figure out why.)  I'm glad that the copy/paste method works well for you.  I wish I could figure out why Alt+130 doesn't work for you.  Don't forget that é is also down below in the insert box.  Procyon (Talk) 12:08, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * The hardest part about uploading files is finding the right image in the first place. I believe that we have been "borrowing" the images from Bulbapedia.  Once you find the image you want, you would ideally save it to your hard drive first.  Then you would return to SW, and click "Upload file" on the left, and browse to the location of your hard drive where you saved the image.  Once you've found it, you make sure that it has the correct file name (that's extremely important, especially around here), and you give it a decription and a category (in the case of the Pokémon images, it's , and then click Upload File, and viola, your image is uploaded.  Ordinarily I'd say go for it, but since Rocky is already taking the initiative to upload them, I'd hold back and see how far he gets before he takes a break. Procyon (Talk) 12:14, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Just a warning that borrowing the images is going to be hard, many need converting to .png and they all need translating. I usually do them in chunks so wait a bit before starting.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:28, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * The Gimp is a great tool for editing images, it can add transparency to them and convert them to .png (both of which are a requirement for Pokémon artwork). Also, the reason why your Alt+130 may not be working is because you don't have Num Lock on. Num Lock has to be on in order for the alt shortcuts to work. --SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 15:21, 1 June 2007 (CDT)