User talk:Procyon

I welcome any and all feedback here, so please post your thoughts. Thank you.

Older or resolved matter can be found in my User talk archives.

Name
As in the star, the raccoon genus, or the release group? -- Prod 23:51, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
 * lol, the raccoon genus. If I can't use Procyon, I sometimes use Lotor, or Plotor. ^_^  Procyon 07:58, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
 * Hey, can you send me an email, I'd like to discuss something non-SW with you. (You can probably guess what it is from our previous IRC discussion :P) -- Prod (Talk) 12:54, 2 January 2007 (CST)

Cat picture
That is one awesome picture :D -- Prod (Talk) 23:11, 30 January 2007 (CST)
 * I must say it does look a little out of place on the main page. I'm going to revert your change, and try to find a more natural place for Moggy to occupy. :-) --DrBob (Talk) 14:55, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * lmao! Moggy???  Moggy, the StrategyWiki cat.  That works! ^_^ Procyon 15:10, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Moggy it is then! ;p  ech elon  15:13, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * Good choice DrBob, I like Moggy's new home. Procyon 15:16, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * "Moggy" was just off the top of my head. I'm sure a better name -- such as "Paws" (get it?) -- should be used. :-D --DrBob (Talk) 16:30, 2 February 2007 (CST)
 * You know, the man makes a good point, "Paws" is pretty funny. Moggy Paws would be cuteness overkill though. Procyon 19:19, 2 February 2007 (CST)

Route 24-25
Proycon, I thought you might like to see this link here, it might be a good idea to put this in the walkthrough or at least warn people not to battle the trainer. I don't know what you think about this but I thought you might want to know. Rocky   (talk) 12:07, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Gyromite Game Maps
That game brings back lots of great memories. Back in the day the first Nintendo System I got was the Deluxe Set that came with Gyromite and Duck Hunt. I am currently working on making maps for F-Zero on the SNES, however I could take a break on that and do some for Gyromite. That is one of the games I have thought about mapping. I have just not gotten to it yet. Once I get some I will place a link to them on the Gyromite page you are working on. Then you can upload the maps you want from my map site, and place them in the Gyromite page where you would like them to appear. --Snesmaster 16:15, 27 February 2007 (CST)

Standardization Policy
Just asking, here it has controls in bold but for the Sword of Mana article, I've added the buttons, e.g, am I doing it wrong or does the policy need to be updated, also is there a policy on spelling (English/American), I've found this onWikipedia but what is the actual policy--Rocky   ( Talk Contributions ) 15:14, 28 February 2007 (CST)
 * The policy you linked to needs to be updated (as do a lot of our "official" docs :-. As for spelling, it doesn't matter as long as the page is consistent, so if someone starts a page in American, you will unfortunately have to continue in American. (This is like Wikipedia, I believe.) --DrBob (Talk) 15:40, 28 February 2007 (CST)
 * That is wikipedia policy. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 20:51, 28 February 2007 (CST)

Wikipedia Template
I've asked at the Staff Lounge about a Wikipedia userbox template that I've made here. I haven't had any respone for days so I'll do it myself but what should I call it?

P.S The text in your Univesity of Pennsylvania alumnus shows up as orange on FF and black on IE6--Rocky   ( Talk Contributions ) 14:30, 5 March 2007 (CST)

Pokemon Move List
Do you think that we should just link to Bulbapedia here, it would make things a bit easier--Rocky   ( Talk Contributions ) 00:59, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Thanks for reminding me, I was using my game to copy the moves over, does the list count moves "Imported" From FR/LG?

P.S do you know how to add a line in the box for the signature, it's not that important, just asking--Rocky   ( Talk Contributions ) 12:44, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Signature
What I was saying about the signature is that I've found out from Ryan Schmidt that I can use my rock as a link, here it is, half my user page, half my talk

The only problem is that the bar for Raw signatures won't let you press enter and you can't use (br) (triangular brackets, I know) so it comes as one line and won't work. Do you know any other way to miss a line?--Rocky   ( Talk Contributions ) 13:00, 6 March 2007 (CST)
 * I really don't think we should be using image maps in signatures even if it were possible, seems like far too much effort and code just to sign talk messages. We don't want to clutter discussions with all these tags and such. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 13:19, 6 March 2007 (CST)


 * Ok, it was just a suggestion from another user.--Rocky [[Image:Rally-X_Rock.png|25px]]  ( Talk Contributions ) 14:28, 6 March 2007 (CST) (Hopefully my sig's back to normal now).

Move List
What is the long way to make a bulbapedia link (the template puts Pokemon after each name) :( --Rocky   ( Talk Contributions ) 14:51, 6 March 2007 (CST)

P.S What should we do about absorb, the page has already been created here and I feel bad marking it as delete because it is has taked 9 out of the user's 17 edits.
 * Sorry to intrude, Proc. To do a Bulbapedia link, just do BP:Insert Page Name to have a pretty link with the bulb linking to say, the Main Page (You have to declare the alt text though). --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 15:09, 6 March 2007 (CST)


 * Err, I didn't do the links, I had an edit conflict with someone, now i'm in a mess, I've put my extras as a hidden comment but I don't want to delete the links, is there any way to merge the two, my extra's and the original links

The Tower of Druaga sprites
I've lower-cased the "sprites" in the category name. ;-) --DrBob (Talk) 16:16, 8 March 2007 (CST)
 * I didn't see anything using it, so I assumed you were subst'ing it. It seems a bit unnecessary, since it's just shortening out 5 words and some punctuation.  Though, that gives me the idea that perhaps we can create a template for images in general.  Something like [[Image:_.|]] .  That way if someone wants to add an image, they would do something like  .  Of course, resizing, frame/thumb, and all those other fun things would get annoying to support, and may negate the benefit. -- Prod (Talk) 22:07, 8 March 2007 (CST)
 * I really don't think it'd be useful for something like that, the Image tag is pretty straightforward, and you aren't even eliminating characters by using a template, but you're creating another file. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 09:58, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * Wait... I thought that templates were applied, on the fly, at the time of the page request. And that theoretically, what I'm saving to the database is a condensed version of what I want displayed, because I'm getting a character savings by using the template instead of spelling it out.  If I were to use subst, then yes, I would agree it would be a complete waste.  But leaving it as a template, I decrease the amount of data needed to store the text of the guide.  Am I completely off base about that? Procyon 10:02, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * Well if the file is named monster.png, your template would save (30 char) into the file of the page to be parsed by the server when it is accessed, without the template it would be [[Image:monster.png|blahblah]] .  (30 char).  I assume that the image tag would be faster then the template tag, as the template would simple be a file access which would then create the image tag.  Two steps would always take longer then just one.  Although this would seem that all templates are worthless, as they are more steps, but since we save human time in updating and placing them normally, they are advantageous, but your template wouldn't really save human time.  In fact, the brackets of templates take longer to type then then braces of interwiki-links and tags (as mediawiki developers probably realized, since interwiki links are used more).  Although we still use your concept, such as with cade, but that's mostly for ease of use as it doesn't require as many characters and doesn't require knowledge of filenames (sometimes), this wouldn't have either of those benefits. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 10:31, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * OK, well, I have no problem switching it. But before I do, understand how frequently I'm using it on The Tower of Druaga/Floor 1-10.  I'm nearing 100 uses.  And technically speaking, I believe the server is supposed to cache the template upon the first time it is requested, so it shouldn't be hitting the server for each and every usage, just the first.  I could be wrong about that though.  What it means, is the CPU does the brunt of the work, not the drive-IO.  And text splicing for a CPU is virtually free when compared to drive-IO speeds. Procyon 10:40, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * (edit conflict) Yeah, I'm sure that's fine, it's very much like the move lists. Good point with the caching though.  is 27 char, and [[Image:Tower_of_Druaga_.png|]] is 46, so with 100+ uses and cached templates, I see the benefit.  You may want to lock it though when you're done, possibly. 100+ uses of some text is an awesome vandalism opportunity, and it isn't going to change. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 11:06, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * To clarify what I was suggesting, if the file is named MapleStory_File_1.png, you would use which would convert to [[Image:MapleStory_File_1.png]] .  If you use your template in a page, it saves the text as is (so approx 20 chars * 100 = 2k), though the page is rendered and cached until it's changed, and probably comes out the same either way for viewers.  To be honest, I don't think this guide will be edited much after you finish with it, so other people won't really need to learn the syntax.  I'm somewhat ambivalent about it's usage now, it saves a bit of typing, shortens the text, but makes it slightly more complicated for editors, and adds a small step to a one time parse.  I think you're breaking even :P. -- Prod (Talk) 11:20, 9 March 2007 (CST)
 * Good point also. -- Mason11987 (Talk - Contributions) 11:06, 9 March 2007 (CST)

Spoiler problem
In The Tower of Druaga in IE6 the spoiler section is revealed for about 15 seconds then hides, is there any way to make the lag shorter because I saw the code.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:49, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually, I think there is a way to fix that, but it comes with a down side. Right now the AGN uses the method I am referring to.  It will first show only the header, and then when the user clicks the show button, the content appears.  The problem comes if the user doesn't have JavaScript.  For the AGN, without JS, only the header will show and they will have to click on the ToC link to see the rest of the pages.  With the spoiler tag, there is almost no way to see the inner content without looking at the code (a bad thing).  -- Prod (Talk) 15:03, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

Re: Compilations in home version comparisons
Hi Garrett. Feel free to completely ignore this, but I was generally under the practice of leaving compilation titles out of the home version comparisons pages. I don't have a particular reason, I just figured it would cut down on the clutter, and the compilation versions strive to be as close to the arcade version that the guide is representing as possible. Like I said, feel free to ignore this, it's just as suggestion. Nice job with the Gauntlet Noteworthies though, that's cool. Might wanna mention Dark Chambers for the Atari 800. (It also had a very inferior Atari 2600 version.)
 * Yeah, that makes sense. With other pages I covered them anyway since some actually have their own bugs or inaccuracies, but I really don't know anything about flaws in these particular compilations. As for Dark Chambers the way I understand it it's an updated version of Dandy Dungeon, so it's mentioned along with that. Thanks for your help. :) GarrettTalk 21:46, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Renaming pictures
Why exactly do my pictures need to be renamed? From what you say, it seems that they are not descriptive enough. I think they are descriptive. What other games have a "Dragon Roost Island"? Is there some image policy I haven't read because at Wikipedia I never got trouble with my image names. You'd think that at a niche wiki like this one, the image names would need to be less descriptive than at a wiki about everything. MD80 13:39, 23 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Thank you for explaining to me. What I meant by "niche website" (no connotation attatched!) was that it was only a wiki about games and strategy guides. I think you might have thought I meant a site just for Zelda? Thanks again. MD80 14:09, 23 March 2007 (CDT)


 * Sorry for the mixup. It is a little confusing. Just like to say that I didn't know about that policy, and it's not that I was being lazy and didn't feel like putting the name, I just wasn't aware I needed to. MD80 14:56, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Pokemon blue and red in IE
Sorry, can you please help me with Celadon city and Saffron, I've resized the Saffron city pic to make it work but I'm not sure about how to do Celadon because the pic would be too small (I think).--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 17:18, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Award
Well, I suppose it was because it was the page I was looking at at the time. I changed the wording and link to cover the entire walkthrough. Good job! Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 16:42, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Comm Issues Revert
Why'd you revert your additions? You have good ideas. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:27, 8 April 2007 (CDT)

Tower of Druaga PCE translation
Good translation, but you missed at least one little thing--at the "Press Run" screen, try tapping Up six times, Left four times, and then Right three times before the "In another time" screen pops up. A secret message will appear. I don't know exactly what it says, but it's a joke in reference to the fact that using the same code in the Famicom version of the game allows you to go to "Another Druaga," a more difficult tower that forces you to do different things to make the chests appear and get through the final levels. The message is basically saying that the game is unable to let you play "Another Druaga" because it doesn't exist in the PCE version. (That's because the "Pro Game" mode is essentially the same idea.) --Pluvius 18:09, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Pokémon G/S/C
Bulldoze...From Scratch, AARGHH!:) Thanks for the offer and I accept it, you might also want to ask Halosonic about this as he's a contributor as well, I'd rather you worked from the information we gathered rather than start again totally because that would be a total waste of mine and your time (IMO) but I'm happy for you to try and improve it!I'll try and improve it before you come so you don't have that much work to do. BTW thanks for the congrats.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:26, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Actually thinking about it, do you have plans on how to remake the Pokémon table, that will be a really big pain because of Day/Night/Morning and G/S/C, what are your thoughts on this.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:32, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Basicly, I'm happy for you to improve the guide as long as you base it on what we've done, I think that this will be different to the other two guides because a lot of info has been clooected already. You don't have to do the table now but I'm worried about how we'll fit in the cycles and the games in one table.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:46, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 * It looks good, but what happens when Hoppip is only in Crystal--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 17:00, 12 April 2007 (CDT)

Slash buttons
First, thanks a lot for the NeoGeo buttons! Now, about the Slash buttons, the problem is that, just like the other games have an Any Punch and Any Kick  entry, Samurai Shodown and Last Blade use Any Slash entries, so for these I would have to write "Any slash button" or something like that... So I think it would be better to have those Slash buttons.TheOverlord 12:42, 26 April 2007 (CDT)
 * Great work with the slash button!! Gonna finish these move lists as soon as I can! :) TheOverlord 12:56, 27 April 2007 (CDT)

FC Twin
Sorry, but short on time atm, but perhaps putting it in the SNES/NES category (and them in it's category) might be the only use. I only converted it to a cat since it is technically a system and didn't want to break with standards. It shouldn't matter if we use the cat or not anywayz. -- Prod (Talk) 17:51, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

Pokemon R/B/Y
Thanx for the invite, and ill do my best. however, dont expect very swift responses until june; my final exams start real soon, so ill be studying. but afterards, ill be more than happy to help. Halosonic 10:59, 7 May 2007 (CDT)

Re: Using the Japanese tag in infobox?
Hi Garrett. I just noticed the change you made to the Game Category involving Japanese characters. Can you think of anyway that we could incorporate the Japanese tag in the infobox? I can't at the moment, short of creating a page with the Japanese name that redirects to the original page, and for that kind of effort, it's not worth it. I was just wondering if you could think of something smarter. Procyon (Talk) 19:43, 14 May 2007 (CDT)
 * One method would be to add categories along the lines of . Check out the sandbox. While this does sort pages according to the Japanese name the link is still displayed in English. Short of some fancy extension, the only way to have the names display correctly is with redirects. I really don't know how useful this current trick will be. GarrettTalk 19:55, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the tip
Thank you for telling me about the NPOV (neutral point-of-view). I am new to Strategy Wiki and I am still learning about the writing style. So thank you for the tip, it will help me for later projects. Sincerely, Myth 22:30, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

DS buttons
One question; how do you put in DS button pictures? You put them in, but I'm not sure how I can. Thank You,Myth 17:14, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

Image tips
Thanks for the tips and the example, I'm not actually using paint so scaling and the like aren't a problem, I actually uploaded those as placeholders but I'll see what I can do. Anyway I'm just getting to grips with the program (I just found out how to draw circles today :P) so I'll improve the images now.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:28, 19 May 2007 (CDT)


 * I'm having a bit of trouble scaling [[Image:Rocky_Test.png|25px|this image]], for me it look awful scaled, is it the same for the GIMP?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 10:46, 19 May 2007 (CDT)


 * My Program is almost as good, I uploaded my version on top of yours, [[Image:Rocky_Test_Scaled.png]]--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 14:46, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

I've had a go at increasing the indentation, what do you think?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 15:11, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

N64 Buttons
Hey Procyon! I'd do this myself, but I'm not that good with GIMP yet. Could you make images for the rest of the buttons for N64 (missing ones can be found at N64) (L and R should probably be 72x24, but I don't know how they scale). Thanks! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 15:38, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Oh, and Dpad-Neutral could stand to be a bit more head-on looking. Thanks again! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 15:39, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I've got all of the buttons now, but the Z button's Z could use a bit more indentation. Unfortunately, I suck at layering with Gimp, so can you do it? (I found the "Z" to be completely visible at around 400% zoom, or at least visible enough to work with). If you could take care of it (and/or tell me how to do it), that would be amazing (I found the image here in case this one is unworkable, but you'll have to rotate it upright). Thank you. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 15:54, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

Re: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
You told me that there is no such thing as too much information, and I completely agree. What I do not think is correct is the floor descriptions, and here's why: Each time you enter the dungeon, the floors are randomly generated, meaning it would be impossible to write what each floor contains. You could write what to generally expect (enemy-wise, etc.), but you could not give an accurate floor description for each floor. It would not be possible. If you have the game, you'd know what I mean. Sincerely, Myth 22:48, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Answering on your page
After reading Prod's comment, I actually will answer all questions on the respective talk pages. Thanks again. Myth 23:05, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Frontpage Changes
Can you link the discussion topic? I've always seen the best layouts to be Intro, Continue Nav, Story, Table of Contents, Additional Items, References, External Links. Also, having the story and other section as a tier 3 header placed them under table of contents, even though they aren't a part of the table of contents. And there's no reason to keep them as 3's since headers are supposed to denote the heirarchy of sections, not be asthetically pleasing... This stuff is so debatable, really needs to be part of Guide/Organization or be in a policy to dismiss all arguments. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:58, 23 May 2007 (CDT)
 * If you don't want to change things, you don't have to. But once a policy is made, then of course there would be changes made to every page.  Anyways, I remember seeing that thread, but after re-reading it, it still doesn't get much accomplished other than allowing descriptors next to TOC links.  We still don't have a uniform front page layout order.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:12, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

How to play
Two things, actually. One, would it be better if the P in play was capitalised? It seems to fit better with our heading rules in the ToC (that is-if we use "how to play"). Secondly, check out the sandbox. The bottom two are for the "how to play" default test. Let me know what you think (I'm waiting for a decision to be reached about the front page layout before I change the real CN, however, and the Footer Nav-styled one will have to be a separate template). --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 15:25, 29 May 2007 (CDT)

Thanks
I see... We are all kids in the beginning, and the first step in growing are to read the help... I guess I wanted to add some achievements too fast. Thanks anyway, if I ever learn how to reply to you ;) Foppe 12:47, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

I Don't know everything...
I guess I was kind of dumb about that. But I tried it five times: I held down the Alt key, then hit the numbers 1,3, and 0 on the numeric key pad, and nothing happened. As for the Alt+0489, it took me to some random Legend of Zelda page I had looked at about an hour ago. So my cut and paste thing works best. Also, I didn't realize the Copy/Paste trick had been metioned (again, kind of dumb on my part), and I posted my commment on the staff lounge page because I thought it would be most helpful there. Sorry again. Myth 12:01, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I guess I can't do anything right today. As for the Pokédex comment, I really don't know how to copy pictures like that. If someone could tell me, that would be great, and I would be more than willing to do it myself. Sorry again, Myth 12:05, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the note
Thanks for the encouragement. And I know é is in the insert box, but when you have to type it a lot it's a pain to have to go down, click on it, go back up, type in a few words, and do it again. Thanks again, though. Myth 12:13, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the suggestion
Thanks for the suggestion, Procyon. (*deep breath*) that puts a load of my chest. I'll just stick it where it was then, as it seems the best place to put it to me. And I doubt anyone will have a problem. Thanks again for the encouragement. Myth 14:07, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

Crystal
That's easy, I'm matching the Yellow policy (finally....). -- Prod (Talk) 20:10, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

Re: correcting new authors
You're right, Procyon. I was too harsh on him. I wasn't trying to be, but I was just frustrated. Not that that excuses my comments. I also didn't know he was new (which is why I was harsher on him). I'll go apologize on his talk page. But I do believe that I should leave him a message so he knows what he's doing wrong. Thanks for the comment, though. Myth 00:26, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Battle City
Whoa, that layout you did is cool ^_^. I don't think the stage headings are necessary though (35 headings seems a bit much). -- Prod (Talk) 10:46, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

Re: Correcting Echelon
Okay, several things: Myth 22:04, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * 1) I had no clue that Echelon was the owner of this site
 * 2) I was not trying to "tattle" on Echelon
 * 3) I was submitting my honest oppinion for the good of Strategy Wiki and was simply stating the rules of the site that were not being followed
 * 4) I really don't see what being the owner of the site has to do with breaking your own rules. If anything, it would be worse to post somehting on your own site that contradicts your own rules.
 * 5) I don't see how submitting my honest oppinion about the rules of the site being followed and such is "immature" or "Unprofessional"
 * 6) If I'm not a sysop, then why were you acting like I should know this stuff?


 * One more thing. I mentioned this on the Community Issues page for two reasons:


 * 1) I felt it was a community issue
 * 2) I was told in the past to tell someone else about something before I went and corrected them. That's exactly what I did and I got nailed for doing so... Myth 22:18, 11 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I think you took my comments the wrong way, Procyon. I didn't want you to leave me alone or anything like that. I just honestly thought that I was being helpful. And as far as editting a talk page, I never said I was going to do anything like that. The whole point of this was a question regarding the link to a website on a talk page. And as far as where I got the idea that it was against the rules to link a site to your talk page, it might be for Wikipedia... Anyways, sorry if I sounded rude or confusing to you. Obviously it is fine to link a site to your talk page as long as it isn't major (and I guess if you're the owner it's fine). So thank you for the help and sorry again. I really don't know where this long thing got started in the first place. Myth 00:08, 12 June 2007 (CDT)