StrategyWiki:Staff lounge

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

Welcome to all users! This page is where people can ask StrategyWiki-related questions to the staff and senior community figures, and they will do their best to answer. If you want to raise a topic for discussion (rather than just ask about it), please use community issues instead. New issues are entered here, with the most recent at the bottom of the page. Please review the Table of Contents to see if your issue has already been raised; also check the archives (to the right) in case it was discussed some time ago.

To facilitate ease of browsing and replying, please:
 * 1) Place your question at the bottom of the list
 * 2) Title the question (by placing the title between equals signs: ==title==)
 * 3) Sign your name and date (by adding two hyphens and four tildes: --~ )

code with spaces
When a link or image name has spaces in it I just noticed that both space and underscore work in the same manner(at least in my browser). I'm confused on if there is a prefered standard.

Also, is it ok to take information from a walkthrough book if the information is a statistic or number that would be the same in every source? For example: The encounter rates of enemies in a specific area or how many HP something has. Zaiqukaj 07:59, 1 October 2007 (CDT)
 * There's no standard for spaces vs. underscores right now. I personally prefer to use spaces because I think it looks cleaner.  As for statistics from games, as long as you do not copy the formatting of a guide, you can use the information.  Everything you take/learn from another guide must be rewritten to avoid copyvio.--
 * It's better to upload images with underscores but it doesn't really matter.-- The preceding signed comment was added by Rocky (talk • contribs). 10:29, 1 October 2007 (CDT)
 * When using the images in a page, try to avoid underscores. They aren't really necessary and it looks cleaner.  The underscores are converted to spaces when you upload the file anywayz. -- Prod (Talk) 11:18, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

infoboxes
With the different categories that infoboxes cover, is there a proper/preferred way to cover remakes or game collections that include the game? There are also some services that allow use of older games. Should the dates a game becomes available on one of those be stated somewhere? Just thought I would ask since Wikipedia threw me off by giving release dates for Midevil on Playstation Network. --Zaiqukaj 06:08, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

I'm confused
Well i started to edit Neo Geo and i added in an infobox via then saved it off so a second later it comes up with the needed syntax. I thougt it be simply like other infoboxes but it ended being jiberish to be .Richardson j 06:14, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Fixed that. You must have used subst: when creating it. It's currently just a stub, so could use some information filled in.  Check System for some documentation of variables. -- Prod (Talk) 09:26, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
 * I added some info to the infobox, but it could still use some information in the body of the page... Oh, and Prod I hope you don't mind, I fixed the link in your response.--
 * Ok thanks Richardson j 18:15, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

For the experts out there.
OK, so Prod and I have been on a tear to reorganize the fighting game move lists and get them transcluded on respective pages. I thought it was a pretty good idea, and it has been working well up until now. If anyone tries to check out Street Fighter Alpha 3, with its 33 transcluded move lists, they're probably not going to succeed. It seems to time out. I've been editing the page to try things out, and the most number of guys that I can get to show up without it bombing out is around 10, and even then it's extremely sloooooooow. I don't know if there's anything that I can do to optimize the individual lists, or anything in general that would help SW build this page in its entirety... I think we may simply have hit upon some kind of limit. Any advice that anyone has on this problem would be greatly appreciated. Chances are I'll just break the list down into smaller sections, as unfortunate as that would be. (Well, it wouldn't be that unfotunate, it would just make SFA3 different from the other lists...) Procyon (Talk) 16:47, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
 * I've always been kind of confused with the move lists project. What exactly is the goal?  Are you trying to put all of the lists on each guide as well as a specific character page for each character with all of their moves from each game?  Also, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea to have a separate page for each character in the guides with strategies vs. other characters (or is this part of the transclusion as well?).  Like I said, I've always been kind of confused about it.  Maybe it would be worth it to create a move lists project page that explains what you are trying to do and has a to do list for those of us who don't really know where to begin.  Kind of like the cleanup project.--
 * The original intention was to have two ways for a player to reference moves from every fighting game: A master list of all the characters from a particular game, and a character list with all of his/her moves from every game. That was the the concept at it's most basic.  Unfortunately, the original plan doesn't lend itself very well to the organization here at SW.  (I mean, it lends itself well, just not very well.)  So Prod convinced me of a few reformatting ideas, and I like them a lot, particularly because rather than having to update to distinct lists in order to keep each page up to date, you only have to update one, and the update occurs everywhere the list is transcluded.  So even if we transclude it three or more times, it's not a problem.  At this very moment, Street Fighter II has pretty much the ideal format for the move lists.  Each game's page contains its master move list, and each of the character pages reference their own moves from each of the games.  (This way you can see how the moves differ from one version to another).  Versus strategy was never in the scope of the Move Lists project itself, per se.  That doesn't mean there's anything stopping anyone from adding a strategy page to any fighting game page they wish.  Along those lines, a combo page might be nice as well, but my personal biggest concern was recording all of the special moves.  So... does that answer all of your Qs Duke?  Cuz I'm really hoping someone can answer mine.  I have a feeling that Template:SFA3 may be part of the problem :( Procyon (Talk) 20:05, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

Update: Well I tried blanking out Template:SFA3 as a test, and the page (slowly) succeeded to load. But that template is extraordinarily useful for that game. So either I need to find a way to trim so fat, or split the list up into two parts. Still curious if anyone has any ideas. Procyon (Talk) 20:46, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

Redirects
How do you do them? I want to make sure "COD4" and "Call of Duty 4" all go to Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. Baejung92 23:23, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Create the page COD4 where the content is " #REDIRECT Call of Duty 4 " without quotes. When redirecting to category pages you MUST place a colon in front of the title of the page you are redirecting to, for example: " Category:RPG ." -- 00:35, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
 * There is also a link in the edittoolbox (just below the edit box) to add a redirect in case you forget. -- Prod (Talk) 09:42, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Prod's talking about this image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Button_redirect.png -- 14:00, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Do you really have to put a colon in front of the link name? I never have and it seems to be working fine...--
 * If you don't, the page gets put in the category Duke... -- 18:00, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
 * You know you've had a long day when you can't even read things correctly... I somehow totally missed the fact that you were talking about category pages.  I think I need some sleep.--
 * Actually, I'm talking about the text boxes below. Under Wiki markup: there's a bunch of useful ones.  Though that one is probably better. -- Prod (Talk) 20:17, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
 * OK Thank yous. Baejung92 19:26, 4 October 2007 (CDT)

Renaming Images
Am I allowed to rename images? If so, how do I do it, and if not, the one needing to be renamed is "Image:COD2 Silo Barn.jpg". It should actually be named "Image:COD2 Silo Post Office.jpg". Baejung92 19:55, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Upload it under the new name, and mark the old one for deletion with delete. Make sure you add a reason why (link to the new image). -- Prod (Talk) 20:16, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
 * He meant "Save it, then re-upload it under the new name..." -- 23:05, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Any user can, or just ask me. To do it, go to the image page, click on the imget to get the fuull version, save it to your PC as the right name, open a new tab or window with the upload screen, select the file, edit the image, copy all the info, go back to the image page, say who originally uploaded it, upload it, change all links to the new image, then add delete to the original imge.-- The preceding signed comment was added by Rocky (talk • contribs). 02:02, 5 October 2007 (CDT)
 * If I uploaded the image and still have it, I can just reupload it under the new name right? Baejung92 17:17, 5 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Just follow Rocky's instructions. If you already have it saved you can skip that step.  -- 18:53, 5 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Yeah, it also helps if you made the image so you can miss out the attribution.-- The preceding signed comment was added by Rocky (talk • contribs). 00:35, 6 October 2007 (CDT)

Singapore release date
Do we have any templates for a Singapore release date? Wikipedia's abbreviation for it is sg and I could not find it in the little listing in our Release date templates. Messing with templates is still a foreign idea for me so a little help or advice would be appreciated. --Zaiqukaj 03:43, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
 * We don't currently, but I'll create one. In future, just use the template as you would normally (even though it doesn't exist), and just point me to the page using it, and I'll create the template. :-) Oh, and could you not add wikipedia to articles unless the Wikipedia article is particularly useful? Thanks. -- 09:15, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Sure thing and thanks for the help. I'm starting to get a good understanding of how things work here. Almost all of the mario party pages don't have any content beyond the infobox. The wikipedia pages all had pretty detailed descriptions of the features and links to other related sites. It should prove to at least be a bit more helpful than a stub to someone who needs help/info on the game. I admit the wikipedia link would be only repetative data after the pages are filled past being stubs. Thanks for letting me know when to add that tag, they will be taken out when the pages have something helpful on them. --Zaiqukaj 03:10, 14 October 2007 (CDT)

Missing Section in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
I've just noticed something weird. There isn't any section that tells about Gerudo Valley, Gerudo's Training Fortress, Desert Collossus, or the Haunted Wasteland before the Spirit Temple in the guide to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I just wanted to let everyone know that the section about the journey to the Spirit Temple is missing. It is a major gap of information, and is neccesarry to complete the guide. I will try my best to fill it in, but some help would be appreciated. -- '''|Superpowered  Mario ''' (Talk|contribs)
 * Huh, weird... I didn't notice that either. I could help later on, but I need to get that far on my emulation copy first so I can take screenshots (and that far on my N64 one so I can play for the strategy -- I just cannot play them for reasons other than screenies on the computer, the key layout just doesn't suit me as well as the actual controller). -- 15:25, 23 October 2007 (CDT)

People's Tactics Guide
en.wikibooks is hosting a guide for People's Tactics, that has recently been nominated for deletion. I know there is a little bit of a backlog for books to be imported to strategywiki from wikibooks, but since this one is on the chopping block, maybe it could be fast-tracked? The guide is HERE. Apparently, this online guide is the only existing documentation for the game, and if it gets deleted at wikibooks, it will disappear forever. I don't think there is any particular hurry, if the import can't be done immediately. Thanks! --Whiteknight 20:01, 24 October 2007 (CDT)
 * I have transwikid it over, but it needs major cleanup/revision to fit with our standards. -- 20:32, 24 October 2007 (CDT)
 * It also needs to be voted on before it can stay; considering it doesn't meet our requirements for fitting in with Scope. I for one say it should stay: the game is freeware (i.e. not advertiseable), the guide looks like its one of a kind, and it's already at a level 2 or 3 stage by the looks of it.  -- 20:43, 24 October 2007 (CDT)
 * Notmyhandle, the guide was already listed on the Wikibooks Import List (check through the history since I removed it and put in in the completed page), which is why I imported it over without asking for input (it wouldn't be listed there if it didn't deserve to come in). Plus, this guide is the only one of its kind out there, so it really can't be deleted anyway. -- 10:15, 25 October 2007 (CDT)
 * None of those reasons are really compelling to me. However, from the screenshots the game looks well made and complete so I think it suits our notability standards (unlike certain games).  And the guide is already made, and relatively small, so no worries about wasting our collective time for a minor game. -- Prod (Talk) 11:23, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

Godfather game - film reel location at Barzini compound
Hello,

I am currently looking for the film reel that is supposedly located on the Barzini Compound. I have looked all over for it (outside) and cannot seem to find it anywhere. I tried looking based on your guide but could not find it. I’m playing the Don’s Edition on the PS3. Could someone please give me specific instructions on where exactly it is located? Thanks for any and all help!

Sincerely,

Jeffrey M. Kellen


 * Hey Jeff, it looks like most or all of the guide was integrated from another wiki, however Garrett might know something (you can try asking him on his talk page). If you find out where the reel is, please fill in the missing information! -- 14:01, 30 October 2007 (CDT)
 * This guide was originally written for an Xbox 360 wiki and so it doesn't necessarily cover the other versions. It's quite possible that they moved the secrets for the PS3 and Wii versions since they have different names and all that. If the secrets have all been moved (rather than just a few) I guess we'll have to add separate reel pages for each version... GarrettTalk 15:14, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

Steel Gunner and Steel Gunner 2
Even though I have only started guides for these games today, I have been experiencing serious problems with them in MAME - I cannot get the crosshairs to move at all! Can somebody please tell me how I can? The crosshairs on the other lightgun games I have, such as Golly! Ghost! and Gun Bullet work fine, but the ones on both Steel Gunner games just stay in the centre of the screen. I will be most grateful to whoever tells me how I can get them to move, and if he ever needs help on a guide for a game by Namco, I'd be more than happy to give it to him. --Namcorules 10:31, 6 November 2007 (CST)
 * You need to calibrate the light gun (the more accurately you calibrate it the better the emulated light gun will respond). You don't need to bother configuring the second player's light gun unless you are actually going to be using it. After the initial calibration MAME will remember the setting. GarrettTalk 15:47, 6 November 2007 (CST)

guide neutrality
I was working on de-driveling some guides and some confusion on neutrality came up. Do things like "this aspect of the game is fun" and "this spell has a cool/stupid animation" belong in the guides? I can understand keeping it if it's an actual description but seeing vague short quips like this seem more like opinions that reflect a specific author than facts or descriptions. --Zaiqukaj 05:32, 11 November 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, they're counted as drivel and should be removed as much as possible. Keep up the good work! :-D --DrBob (talk) 06:29, 11 November 2007 (CST)
 * Yeah, definately remove that drivel-ish stuff, but IMO guides really shouldn't be entirely neutral. In order to keep the reader engaged and playing the game, they should be exciting and have flair that makes them want more, instead of some boring encyclopedic article that bores you to tears. Of course, in that regard, the un-neutrality of the guide should be promoting the game, not demoting it ;) -- 20:18, 11 November 2007 (CST)

Mega Man/Megaman Name error
Hello Staff,

In trying to create a new page for the megaman series games, i misspelt the title of my page as 'Megaman Battle Network' instead of 'Mega Man Battle Network'. Considering that i cant change the name of the title, is it possible that one of you could do it for me? thanks in advance.Halosonic 15:23, 11 November 2007 (CST)
 * Done. You might want to consider using the "Main game page" pre-load template in future when creating new guides. --DrBob (talk) 15:28, 11 November 2007 (CST)

Question on templates
Hello Staff, i was wondering if it were possible for average users to create templates, or can this only occur for admins? thanks in Advance. Halosonic 17:54, 12 November 2007 (CST)
 * Yes, anyone can create a template. Just create a page in the Template namespace (aka create a page starting with Template:, no spaces between the colon and template name). Then, just call it elsewhere with -- 18:35, 12 November 2007 (CST)
 * I presume you plan to make a template for use in one guide; if so, please make sure to put it in the Category:Guide-specific templates category, and make sure that its title includes the initials of the game. --DrBob (talk) 00:44, 13 November 2007 (CST)
 * Ryan has been covering this topic 1 on 1, if anyone else is interested please check out both his and Halosonic's talk pages. -- 01:54, 13 November 2007 (CST)

Let the completed guides rise again!!!
Pop open the champagne bottles folks, we finally did it. All of the guide completion categories that were added to redirect pages have finally been removed. We are finally above 250 complete guides for the first time in a long time. Let's celebrate ^_^ Procyon (Talk) 19:48, 15 November 2007 (CST)
 * YAY ^_^ -- 21:05, 15 November 2007 (CST)
 * Wooooooooooooot Baejung92 23:03, 15 November 2007 (CST)
 * /train now we just need to get more! -- 01:15, 16 November 2007 (CST)

Lets aim for 300 completed by end of 2008, men! Halosonic 18:22, 21 November 2007 (CST)

Posting guides onto gamefaqs
(After the speed issues are sorted.) In order to try and promote this site, has anyone considered the idea of producing plain text versions of some of the guides here and posting them onto gamefaqs? The guide could have some blurb at the top explaining and linking to strategywiki. You never know - some people might see the guides there, want to improve them or want to read more, and so come to this site. There could be an official strategywiki username on gamefaqs to do the posting, so that they all come under the same 'author'. Pelago 17:01, 20 November 2007 (CST)


 * Absolutely not. The idea is to attract readers away from GF, not give them another good reason to go there.  Besides, a guide on SW is alive and constantly updated.  I know I wouldn't want to be responsible for merging and submitting updates to GF, and I can't imagine anyone would want to be either.  There are far better avenues of promotion than GF, we simply need man power and dedicated time to achieve them.
 * I also disagree, although I do have a good name there (hint: It's my MapleStory IGN) in case we do figure out a good method of getting them to come here. -- 17:20, 20 November 2007 (CST)


 * But since our stuff is GFDL, can't someone else make a compilation and then throw contributor names on it and be good to go? -- 03:55, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * Yes they could. But would doing so actually attract new editors? If we put the best of our stuff on GameFAQs that might well help them more than us as that's yet another game people can find help on there instead of elsewhere. GarrettTalk 04:15, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * The problem with the user "StrategyWiki" and using our content is that GameFAQs editors/admin or whatever may be inclined to deny us acceptance based on oversaturation of guides already existing on the site as well as being a potential "advertisement" - however it's completely legitimate so if they were to do that it would be BS. -- 16:54, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * It might help us get recognition due to the high level of traffic they get. However, it might be fun to just send them a guide purely to enjoy the ethical/business dilemma they will be put in :D.  However, we'd have to have a guide with good content, that they don't have much for, that can survive without images, which isn't exactly easy for us. -- Prod (Talk) 17:17, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * I think I have a plan: how about writing up just a bare-ish guide (aka not in-depth) of a game that we have at cs4 and that gamefaqs doesn't have much on. Then, we mention in the top and bottom that the full version is here at strategywiki. Also, as I've said earlier, I have a perfect account name there for this ;) -- 18:16, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * Gentlemen, while I certainly won't (or can't) stop any of you from pursuing this, I see absolutely no value in any of this. For one thing, as I mentioned above, the concept behind SW is that every guide is "alive" and theoretically under constant revision.  We also represent the death of plain text.  I don't understand how you intend to advertise both of these features by contributing a static text-only file to our perceived competition.  In order for it to be worthwhile, it would need to become one of their most sought-after FAQs, and I don't think the average FAQ reader even gives the preamble or posttext very much consideration at all.  As I said above, there are many better forms of promotion, and the plan here is like Burger King giving McDonalds a burger to try and sell in Burger King wrapping.  The wrapping ends up in the trash.  Procyon (Talk) 19:28, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * +1 --DrBob (talk) 00:29, 22 November 2007 (CST)
 * This is absolutely the worst idea. Many have said it before: we are trying to bring people away from GameFaqs. The way I see it, you can't promote the San Francisco Chronicle in the New York Times--it isn't going to work. Nothing will change. I'd rather we got our own search ranking higher than we helped GameFaqs. -- towers  http://media.strategywiki.org/images/a/a8/Towers_trex.gif 22:05, 21 November 2007 (CST)

Staff lounge and Community issues
Is there a good distinction between this page and StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal? In other words, why are there two pages? Should they be merged into one? Pelago 17:06, 20 November 2007 (CST)


 * Community Issues are open forums for people to post ideas about how guides should be arranged, or how certain developments on the site take place. Staff lounge serves two general purposes; first as a central location for new users to ask experienced users for technical help with guide development, and second as a place for the staff to communicate with one another about trivial issues that don't need to be brought up in CI.  Procyon (Talk) 17:16, 20 November 2007 (CST)

StrategyGenre
While viewing Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising, I saw that the infobox says the genre is Strategy (turn-based). I then realized that there is a Category:Strategy and also Category:Turn-based strategy. What is the distinction? Maybe we can get rid of the strategy category, and just be left with Category:RTS and Category:Turn-based strategy. New User 18:42, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * The Strategy category has games like Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, which, to my knowledge, has nothing to do with either real-time or turn-based strategy, along with actual RTSes like Rise of Nations. So I'm guessing this is probably a category for games under the very general definition of "strategy". Also, overcategorization maybe? Baejung92 21:39, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * Let's break it down then. We all know what RTS is (StarCraft, etc.) and what TBS is (board game like action, Risk anyone?), but for general "strategy games" we need to reclassify.  Pheonix Wright, what sort of game is that?  Puzzle (Mystery/Deduction?)?  -- 22:55, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * Phoenix Wright is an adventure game. -- Prod (Talk) 22:59, 21 November 2007 (CST)
 * I have never played, nor seen, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, but from a gameplay description I just read it sounds like an Adventure game. I looked over the games in the Strategy category, and the games in the Turn-based strategy category, and some of these games I am familiar with.  Games like the Civilization series (here listed under Turn-based strategy) I have always called strategy games.  Games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Disgaea: Hour of Darkness, I have often heard referred to as tactics games, or turn-based tactics, or tactics RPG or something similar.  I have also heard them called strategy games, or turn-based strategy games.  As Notmyhandle says, I don't think there is any problem defining RTS.  My proposal is that all strategy games that are not RTS (and that are therefore turn-based), including the tactics RPG type, should be placed into the Category:Turn-based strategy. New User 23:10, 21 November 2007 (CST)


 * Why not separate them completely? Check out Tactical role-playing game, Turn-based tactics, and Real-time tactics. -- 23:54, 21 November 2007 (CST)

A friend of mine has Phoenix Wright, and from what I've seen it definitely doesn't belong in any type of strategy categories. Also, what Notmyhandle suggested above sounds good to me. Although tactical RPGs are turn-based, it's not the same kind of strategy as RTS or TBS to start with. Baejung92 13:35, 22 November 2007 (CST)
 * It seems to me that adding three more categories (or two if we get rid of Category:Strategy) would just make things more complicated, but I don't have very much experience with wiki editing. After looking at the wikipedia articles referenced by Notmyhandle, I see that some wikipedia editor(s) categorized Tactical role-playing game as a subgenre of turn-based tactics.  Also, even though I see a slight difference from RTS and the real-time tactics genre described on wikipedia (I have never played any of the example games), the only difference appears to be that the real-time tactics genre doesn't include resource collection.  That is such a small difference that I would still consider those to be RTS games, but since I haven't played any I guess I can't justly make an opinion there.  So, as long as I am not the only one that thinks to current strategy categories aren't the most efficient way to arrange things, how about we get rid of the Category:Strategy, and be left with Category:RTS, Category:Turn-based strategy (for games like the Civilization series and Master of Orion), and then form Category:Turn-based tactics (for games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Disgaea: Hour of Darkness), and we can form Category:Real-time tactics if necessary for games like Midieval: Total War. This will should make a total of four categories, where there now exists three. New User 13:52, 23 November 2007 (CST)

position on talk page archiving
Just wondering what the accepted length to archive at is for personal talk pages. Clearly I am nowhere near that, but I'm curious. -- towers  http://media.strategywiki.org/images/a/a8/Towers_trex.gif 03:02, 27 November 2007 (CST)
 * It's by user discretion, once you feel your page is annoyingly long, then archive it if you want. See User talk:DrBob for an annoyingly long talk page.  I usually archive if the topics have also been dead for a long time and no longer need to be present.  -- 04:56, 27 November 2007 (CST)
 * Thanks for reminding me; talk page archived. --DrBob (talk) 11:13, 27 November 2007 (CST)
 * Cool, thanks. That's sort of what I thought. -- towers  http://media.strategywiki.org/images/a/a8/Towers_trex.gif 12:50, 27 November 2007 (CST)

Hyphens
How do you make them with wikimarkup? I've been using two dashes put together until now, but I'd like to know if there's a way to make a proper hyphen. Baejung92 20:01, 12 December 2007 (CST)
 * If you scroll down to under the copyright warning, you'll find a box with a lot of symbols in it. If you click on one of those symbols, it inserts it into the edit box. The hyphen is near the top. -- 20:05, 12 December 2007 (CST)
 * Ah I see it. — — — Thanks! Baejung92 00:01, 13 December 2007 (CST)
 * Actually, they're dashes. :-P The one you've been using previously (the one on your keyboard) is a hyphen. --DrBob (talk) 00:41, 13 December 2007 (CST)