User talk:Myth/Archive 1

Myth's Talk-page Archive
This is a sub-page containing resolved or out-of-date questions.

What you did
At the beginning, I was referring to when you were creating the pages in Spectrobes. While it can be expected that every new user won't know our guidelines (which is what the welcome notice is for), it usually is not a good idea to continue editing in a fashion that makes you seem like you haven't read your talk page. Specifically, I was referring to your lack of using the "new guide page" button over the edit box when creating a new guide page, and the fact that you kept trying to space out everything with actual spaces (putting 1+ spaces before the first word in a paragraph puts it into a different font and negates any formatting that you try to add to it). I'm truly sorry that I exploded on you like that, but I didn't think that you were taking the time out to read your talk page and our guidelines--although now I know that you did. As for the categories, see my above message (and feel free to remove any of those messages--it IS your talk page after all). For reference, you need to hit "return" or "enter" twice before it starts a new paragraph, and you can indent paragraphs by putting a colon before the first letter (not by hitting "tab"). Numbered lists are created by starting a new line and putting # before the first letter (bulleted lists with * instead). If you have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page or in the staff lounge. Again, I'm sorry that I blew up like that, and your edits DO help contribute to StrategyWiki. Thank you. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 21:51, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

What you continue to do...
Myth, I highly recommend that you take Ryan's suggestion very seriously. One major rule that you are not adhering to is maintaining NPOV, or a Neutral Point of View. That means refraining from ever using "I" or "me" in the body of your writing. While our guidelines may appear excessive and discouraging to new editors, we enforce these rules for a very good reason. We are extremely serious about the quality of the writing on this site, and we ask for the very best from every single editor who joins our community. You are not being singled out in any way. When a new editor insists on using a different style from the rest of the site, it becomes a waste of time for everyone. It's a waste of time for us because we need to rewrite the sections that you wrote, and it's a waste of time for you because much of what you wrote will only end up being replaced. Please don't take any of this as criticism or rejection, I know how easy that is to do. We welcome anyone and everyone to join the project hosted by this site, but we do ask that everyone conform to a certain range of style that has been thoroughly discussed and agreed upon. Thanks very much for your cooperation. Procyon (Talk) 22:09, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Myth, if it's personal choice, feel free to submit your content to one of us (any "regular" user, you'll find us on most talk pages and the community portal) for review and then we can either post it for you or just send it back. Otherwise, definitely get used to it.  It's not just StrategyWiki, it's all Wiki's.  Plus, when you're reading another guide, you're not even going to know who wrote it so it's completely unnecessary.  If you're feeling singled out, I can gaurentee you I've gotten a lot more crap for just being me than you probably will.  If you like to contribute, I encourage you to do it for yourself rather than for others.  It's fun; don't even let the admins get to you. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 23:43, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

Contributions
Hey, welcome again. Unfortunately, for the moment we have very few people around here. We're working on ways to attract people, as well as trying to maintain the "feel" of the website at the same time (those two don't always go together as I think you saw :P). I would personally disagree with the suggestion above of submitting info for review and then having them post up the info. Just put up the info wherever you think it belongs, with whatever formatting you believe is correct. At least one or two of the sysops will end up looking over your edits within a day or two, and will make changes accordingly (or if it's major, leave a message on your talk page). Just be sure to keep all pages you edit in your watchlist and pay attention to the changes made. If you are unsure about something, ask on any of our talk pages, or the Staff lounge. Happy editing! -- Prod (Talk) 12:06, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I just wanted to back Prod up here on this one. You should never feel afraid to post your own contributions here.  The longer you contribute to SW, the more natural it will become, and pretty soon, you'll be helping the rest of us welcome and correct new users as well.  The only way to get to that level is to practice, so please continue doing what you're doing, but don't be afraid to read the guide, ask questions, or even look at how other guides have already been set up.  That was how I learned best, just by looking at other examples of people's work. Procyon (Talk) 12:30, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

Editing Tips
Hello Myth! I've noticed you've been making a few edits lately and I thought that I'd drop by and give you a few tips. (centered text)
 * Use the "new guide page" preload button whenever making a new guide page to populate it with the proper formatting (like the Header Nav)
 * Check out the wiki markup section of the guide to using StrategyWiki.
 * Don't put spaces before your text that you write, as it treats it as preformatted (where no wiki markup works and the font face changes)
 * Don't repeat a page's name on the page. It is already at the top and does not need to be stated twice
 * If you want to center your text, enclose the text inside of (centered text), it appears like so:
 * Don't center major points, but instead make them headings (enclose them within two equal signs - ==Important Heading== ). That produces a bar like the one above that says "Editing Tips."
 * Read the rest of the guide to using StrategyWiki

Keep these in mind while making future edits, and you'll be doing just fine! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:41, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Also, don't add your signature to non-talk pages. It degrades from our goal to have professional-looking guides, and attribution to your work can always be found on the page's history and in your contributions. If you want to test out how to do something, please use the sandbox instead. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:53, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't create categories unless they are for good reason. Categories are designed to hold pages with similar content for easier navigation between them. Creating vanity categories or categories that don't really contribute that much to StrategyWiki is discouraged against, and such categories will be deleted. Thank you (and please please please please please please please read the StrategyWiki Guide)! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 21:41, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

If someone makes a change, and you'd like to know how it was done, easiest way is to check the history pages and click the "last" links. It shows exactly what changes were made, and how it affected the content. -- Prod (Talk) 16:37, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

Spectrobes/Kollin suggestions
Hi Myth. Since you asked for some feedback, here is mine. I don't know anything about the game, so the only thing that I am commenting on is the formatting. Please learn how to make use of headers. See The Tower of Druaga (PCE)/How to play as one of many good examples on how to make use of headers. Boss Battle, for example should be made at least a level 3 (three equal signs) header. Additionally, I know that what I'm about to suggest is difficult for a majority of users to do, but artwork and screenshots goes a long way to improve the look of a page. Even if you can't capture any screen images, if you can find and upload artwork of the boss that you are talking about there, it would help the page a lot. But this is usually not something that the average editor is confident doing, so don't worry about it too much. Procyon (Talk) 14:51, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I think he removed the second note because finding items on the items page is somewhat self explanatory. If you believe it is important, feel free to re-add the link (the standard wiki motto is Be Bold!).  -- Prod (Talk) 20:56, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I added the link back (in a way). -- Prod (Talk) 23:04, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

Spectrobes
Hello, Myth, welcome to Strategy Wiki. I got your message, and to address your suggestion on Nessa, I have beaten the game as well, and am unable to return to the keystone area. Sorry. I love having someone else around to work on Spectrobes. Alot of the games that I own, like and create articles for here on Strategy Wiki lack contributors, so I amalways extatic to have someone else to collaborate on an article with. I would like to work on the Spectrobes article (Psshhhh...I probably will :-D), but I am tied up at the moment working on other articles. Thanks for the suggestion though. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 17:47, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

NDS Buttons
Have a look at Category:Nintendo DS controller buttons. A lot of our buttons were very specially crafted for this site by User:Blendmaster and he always makes sure to include a template to make depositing button images into guides very easy. In the case of the Nintendo DS, that template is Template:Ds. If you check that page out, you will see some examples of how to use it towards the bottom. So if you would like the button to appear, all you need to type into your guide is  and viola. When you want to indicate directions on the D-pad, you need to type it out like so: and replace Up with whatever direction you prefer (capitalized). Let me know if you have any other questions. Procyon (Talk) 17:56, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

Spectrobes/Genshi
Just do it however you want to do it. If somebody doesn't like the way something is formatted or worded, they'll probably just change it (they MIGHT suggest it on the talk page first, but that would be unlikely to happen). Once it is done, I'll probably come by and clean it up a bit, but content-wise, I'm probably the last person you should ask (as I know squat about Spectrobes).

Also, I usually reply to messages left on my talk page locally (as in, I don't keep a one-sided dialog on my talk page and the other side on someone else's talk page), so if you ask me a question, you should probably check recent changes to see if I replied (my summary for replies is almost always "reply"). And finally, when I was referring to content being deleted, I was referring to the entirety of the content that was added, not just a small part of it (which is the difference between "reverted" and "cleanup"). --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 22:07, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

I fixed your request
You actually put your request where the request template was supposed to be. When you want to request something, you copy the contents inside the template and paste it above, filling in the appropriate information. I did it for you on your behalf. But the fact is, few people actually pay attention to that page. The whole point of StrategyWiki is, if you see a game that doesn't have a guide, you start one yourself. If you don't see a guide about, say, Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness, that means no one has come along with an interest in making one. Nothing ends up on StartegyWiki unless someone makes an effort to create it. Since we don't have an official staff, and no one gets paid to write any of the content here, we each just work on what we enjoy. That's why I work on all of the classic games (see my page). Procyon (Talk) 22:59, 19 May 2007 (CDT)
 * What did you alter your signature on the request page for? I fixed it again.  Procyon (Talk) 23:08, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness
Hey, I saw the discussion on the community issues and wanted to let you know, I have a friend who owns the game who I might be able to get interested in Strategy Wiki (I have already recruited one friend, I will not give up on recruiting another!). Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 12:36, 20 May 2007 (CDT)


 * Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness Created. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 12:50, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

"New Guide Page" preload
Hey Myth, glad to see you've discovered the preload templates! However, there are a few things you need to know about them (especially the "new guide page" one, as it will be used a LOT). It seems that you've taken out the comments (the words enclosed in the that don't show up on the article itself, only in the edit box), which is good, but there are a few other things that you've missed. First of all, fill in prevpage= and nextpage= in the Footer Nav to correspond with the previous page and the next page, or remove it entirely. Also, the content of the page should go between the Header Nav and Footer Nav (like so, using the Guide as the example guide): Header Nav Content goes here, between the two navs Footer Nav

Just keep that in mind (and use the "show preview" button to see what the page looks like before you save), and you'll be on your way to giving other users advice on how to edit! --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:00, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * After you read the previous comment, go ahead and remove the example with the navs (as the Header Nav automatically categorises everything either under Category:Games or Category:Sub-pages)

Two things:

 * 1) I undid your revision to the Action Genre in the Game categories page.  The games listed on that page are meant to be definitive examples of the genre they are listed under and should, for the time being, remain unchanged.  Only add a game under a genre on the game categories page if it is a clear example of a game that should be there (for example, if for some reason Tetris was missing from the Puzzle genre or Street Fighter II was missing from the Fighting genre, then you'd want to add them.)  Your game will end up in the Action genre category by virtue of the Action category label that is added to the front page of the guide.
 * 2) With regards to your comments about Pokémon Mysterious Dungeon, there is never such a thing as "too much" information.  Information can be poorly written, and can be too wordy, but if that guide contains a floor by floor breakdown, then it is far more complete than if it had a general descriptions for only certain floors.  Never assume that you know what a reader would like to see, or that they will only be interested in the information that you are interested in.  Make it your goal to describe every conceivable piece of information about the games that you write about.  A guide can be considered complete with considerably less, but in reality, for our guides to be truly complete, the programmers who made the game should be able to completely reprogram the game in it's entirety based off of what we have in our guides.  That doesn't mean that you have to knock yourself out and try to do that.  The only reason I say that is to emphasize: There's no such thing as too much information.  Procyon (Talk) 21:11, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Please note, Procyon, that I answered your second question on your talk page, but I have decided to answer all questions here from now on, to avoid confusion. Thank you.

Now, I would like to inform you that I put Spectrobes in the section of Action/Adventure because it didn't even exist on the category page. I put it there because it needed to be categorized and I figured that was the best place to put it. So can you please undo your revision?? Sincerely, Myth 22:56, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * The game is classified under Category:Action and Category:RPG. Also, the main benefit of answering on the other person's talk page is the nice yellow banner it gives the person to notify them of the change, especially if they don't patrol Recent Changes, or have your page on their watch list. -- Prod (Talk) 23:01, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * lol, fortunately, I am that crazy that I patrol Recent Changes on a daily basis, so I would have seen your response here, but Prod is right, it is a general courtesy to respond on someone elses user page unless you know they are likely to check back here (like if you were having an ongoing discussion or something...) but anyway... I hope you understood Prod's response, a link to the Spectrobes guide does in fact exist in the Action and RPG Categories, and the games listed on the Game categories page are intended as obvious examples in case someone out there actually had no idea what was meant by an Action game (not that you'd expect too many people to fall under that category, but you never know.) Anyway, I think as you spend more time here, you'll realize that all the little details that you think might be missing are in fact there, they just might not be as obvious as they could be.  And if you have any ideas on how to make things more obvious, always feel free to voice your opinion on the Community Issues page.  Take care.  Procyon (Talk) 23:40, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I just wanted to drop one more note here, because I read your response on the Staff Lounge page, and I wasn't quite sure if you understood what Prod was trying to tell you. You are pretty much the primary contributor to Spectrobes, and as such, you are in the best position to determine the completeness of the guide.  Whenever you feel that the guide has graduated to a new level of completeness, you are welcome to change that number at any time.  Someone may disagree with you and change it back or something, but you can hash that out if and when that ever occurs (which is rare.) Procyon (Talk) 16:22, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

I took care of the table in Spectrobes for you. You know Myth... you could have learned how to fix the table on your own, if you would take our advice and read the writing guide... ⌐_⌐; Rocky started out a lot like you, and now he's a Sysop and one of the leading contributors to the site. But he only became that way when he started to make an effort to learn things and figure things out on his own. I'm sure you can become just as accomplished as Rocky, but you have to put your mind to it. Good luck! Procyon (Talk) 21:51, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

Introduction heading
With longer pages (and longer intro paragraphs), when the ToC shows up, it looks a bit better. I find it somewhat odd that the "Walkthrough" pages are so short. Is this their final length, or do you expect them to grow? -- Prod (Talk) 11:41, 24 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I redid Spectrobes/Kollin a bit. With a longer intro paragraph I think it looks OK without the header.  What do you think? --
 * Perhaps add a section on shops? Actually, check out Pokémon Red and Blue/Viridian City for one thing you can do to show what is sold in each shop.  One major reason I removed the header is also because the name is already at the top of the page, so repeating it again is a bit redundant. -- Prod (Talk) 13:43, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Page conformity
Hi Myth. I understand some of the frustration you are having regarding the layout of certain pages, the placement of introductions, and the use of headers. There is one reason, and one reason only, why Prod is assisting you with these corrections, and why we try to stress them as much as we do. We would like the visitors to StrategyWiki to have a consistent experience from one guide to the next. The more similar each guide is, the easier it is for visitors to become accustomed to the site and navigate to the section they are interested in. This does not mean that you have no say in how your information should be arranged or laid out, because the guidelines have a lot of flexibility when it comes to content. And you are also encouraged to voice your disagreement with certain layout guidelines if you feel strongly about them. However, the guidelines, as they stand today, are the result of a lot of people (with just as strong feelings as you) coming together, making compromises, and ultimately deciding upon what works best for the site. Until you have been here for some time, I encourage to live with some of Prod's modification and see if they grow on you. I also encourage you to explore other completed guides to see what other people have done. Who knows, you might even gain some inspiration from them. Take care. Procyon (Talk) 13:28, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Completeness
I've noticed that you've said on Prod's talk page that Spectrobes/Kollin is a complete walkthrough of the planet, and frankly, that scares me. First of all, nothing is ever "complete" as it can always be improved upon. Secondly, you don't have any images whatsoever on the page (not counting controller buttons, since they don't count). Also, a map always does wonders. Plus, if there are any extras that could be had or sidequests to do, they should be mentioned. If you need some more to write about, how about a detailed walkthrough of how to get to the boss? That should add a paragraph or five content-wise. Finally, I believe I've previously pointed you here, but I'll point you there again, as it includes pretty much everything a finished page should have in it (finished, not "complete", there always something to improve). --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 16:27, 24 May 2007 (CDT)
 * I think that Myth, as a Wikipedian transplant, may not be as familiar with our notion of complete, but it is also not entirely on Myth's shoulders to flesh all of the walkthrough out. Myth, if your contributions are complete, that's entirely OK.  You've done a good job setting up a framework that can (and should) be fleshed out by others that come behind you, but you should feel free to contribute whatever level of effort you are so inclined.  However, please understand that Ryan's point is well taken; nothing can every truly be complete, and there's always corrections and additions that will take place on the walkthrough for quite some time.  I just don't want to scare you away from the level of quality that we tend to expect from editors around here (and you've received more than you share of brow beating since you've been here.) Procyon (Talk) 16:39, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Twilight Princess contributor
Myth, you do realize that you can see everyone who has ever edited a page by looking at the history, right? There's rarely ever one author on any given guide, it's normally a collaboration on many people's part. Although in the case of Twilight Princess, Ryan was the major contributor, followed by Prod and a few others. Procyon (Talk) 00:28, 26 May 2007 (CDT)

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess/Enemy List
I've noticed that you've added a strategy to beating Diababa to the Enemy List, and it looks good! Please note, however, that this strategy also exists on the Forest Temple page. Therefore, any improvements you make to one should ideally be made to the other one. Also, check out the enemy list's talk page and voice your opinion about that if you so wish. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 14:00, 27 May 2007 (CDT)

Pokémon/Pokédex
IS Grass/Poison by the way (Follow the link if you don't believe me). The type of the pokémon is determined by the newest game (in this case Diamond/Pearl). While it may not be Grass/Poison in RBY or GSC, it is in DP, so that's what it is. Whenever you aren't sure, just follow the link in the dex to get to Bulbapedia, which has up-to-date info on the pokémon. --Ryan SchmidtTalk - Contribs 20:22, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
 * It's Grass/Poison in my blue, silver and ruby, it was a shock to me too :P--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 03:00, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

Staff Lounge comments
Myth, please do not take what I'm about to say the wrong way. The Staff Lounge was not the appropriate place to put your comments. The Community Issues page might have been a better location, but I moved your Pokemon request to the Diamond and Pearl talk page where I felt it belonged, and where I would have left similar comments. Furthermore, the "great" copy/paste tip was thoughtful on your part, but in all sincerity, it is by far one of the most well known editing tools around. Ryan even suggested that, failing the Alt+130 trick, that you simply copy and paste the text wherever you need it. I removed it from the staff lounge page so that it wouldn't make your appear too "noobish." As for why you can't make Alt+130 to work, I haven't the vaguest idea why you can't do it. It works universally on every PC. Just to make sure you understand how it works again, you press and hold down the Alt key. Then, using only the numbers on the numpad on the right side of your keyboard (not the numbers above the letters) you type 1, 3, and 0. Then when you release the Alt key, é should appear. You have to keep Alt held down the entire time, and you must use the numpad numbers. It should work every time. Procyon (Talk) 11:56, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * One more thing, it's sort of considered "rude" to request that others do work that you would like to see done when you can just as easily do it yourself. If you feel that the Pokédex is incomplete, then by all means, help to complete it.  If the missing images are a problem, someone will come along and help you with them.  Procyon (Talk) 11:59, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * There's no need to apologize, and no one expects you to know everything. We all learn new stuff as we go along.   I'm learning new things all the time here.  I'm not judging you in any way, I'm just trying to be as helpful as I can be.  The staff lounge is primarily to discuss site concerns, or for questions that arise when things don't work they way they were expected to (for example, if a table wasn't displaying properly and you couldn't figure out why.)  I'm glad that the copy/paste method works well for you.  I wish I could figure out why Alt+130 doesn't work for you.  Don't forget that é is also down below in the insert box.  Procyon (Talk) 12:08, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * The hardest part about uploading files is finding the right image in the first place. I believe that we have been "borrowing" the images from Bulbapedia.  Once you find the image you want, you would ideally save it to your hard drive first.  Then you would return to SW, and click "Upload file" on the left, and browse to the location of your hard drive where you saved the image.  Once you've found it, you make sure that it has the correct file name (that's extremely important, especially around here), and you give it a decription and a category (in the case of the Pokémon images, it's , and then click Upload File, and viola, your image is uploaded.  Ordinarily I'd say go for it, but since Rocky is already taking the initiative to upload them, I'd hold back and see how far he gets before he takes a break. Procyon (Talk) 12:14, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Just a warning that borrowing the images is going to be hard, many need converting to .png and they all need translating. I usually do them in chunks so wait a bit before starting.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:28, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * The Gimp is a great tool for editing images, it can add transparency to them and convert them to .png (both of which are a requirement for Pokémon artwork). Also, the reason why your Alt+130 may not be working is because you don't have Num Lock on. Num Lock has to be on in order for the alt shortcuts to work. --SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 15:21, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

Diamond and Pearl
Do you own Diamond or Pearl? Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 18:45, 1 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Well, I ask because you state on your user page that you are working on the guide for it. I could really use the help. Do you have an FC? If you do, do you mind swapping FCs? Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 15:27, 2 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Friend Code. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 11:53, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * A friend code is for use on Wi-Fi. You swap friend codes with people and then you can log onto Wi-Fi and play with them. In DP, you can find your friend code on your Pal Pad (If you have been on Wi-Fi already, you need to log onto Wi-Fi at least once to obtain your FC). If you don't yet have the Pal Pad, head down to the lower level of any Pokecenter and speak to the receptionist on the far right. Do you have any other Wi-Fi compatible games? (Might as well ask while on the subject) Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 20:26, 3 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Dive Balls do indeed make an appearance in Diamond and Pearl. You can get them for doing something in Solaceon Town and you can transfer them over from Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald. Lunar Knight (Talk to me + Contribs) 21:45, 4 June 2007 (CDT)


 * Hi, thanks, BTW from what I've heard you can only get dive balls from R/S/E.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 02:31, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I wouldn't know, I haven't even got the game :P--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 12:55, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Route 225
I noticed in the Footer Nav, you've put this between "Fight Area" and "Survival Area." However, the table of contents has lots of routes between these two. Since I don't have the game, I can't help with placement, but the way it is presented in the ToC is the way that the footer navs should link in the walkthrough. --SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 19:58, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I've left a follow up on his talk page. -- Prod (Talk) 20:36, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
 * As did I. Look, Myth, it's impossible to write the perfect guide.  Very few adventure games are linear.  So you do the best that you can, and introduce an area when you think a reader is going to encounter it.  If the reader happens to do things in a different from what you wrote, that's fine.  Just go with your gut instinct and put the route in the order that really makes the most sense to you.  And if it's impossible to decide, then seriously, put it anywhere, it really doesn't matter.  All that matters is that the reader can find it and learn what she or he needs to know about it when they get there.  No one is going to expect you to find an absolutely logical place for every aspect of the game.  Sometimes it simply isn't possible.  But stressing out about it and making it other people's top concern isn't going to help either.  So put it where you think it should go, and if someone strongly disagrees with you (which I doubt they'll do), they'll move the page, that's all.  That's the beauty of wiki.  Good luck.  I'm sure you'll make the best decision. Procyon (Talk) 12:16, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

Correcting new authors
Hi Myth. I noticed the comments that you left for Sekoku, and while your heart was in the right place, you were a bit harsh. Next time, I would recommend that you simply correct the mistakes that you find, hope that the author sees them and understand why you did what you did, and save leaving them a comment if the offense continues. And if you do feel the need to leave a comment, try to be a bit more understanding and tone back your frustration. Or, if you really feel that a strong word is necessary, please contact one of the sysops and request that we do it for you. Thanks very much. Procyon (Talk) 23:02, 9 June 2007 (CDT)
 * An alternative would be to title a section "Editing Tips" or something comparable and write a few tips in the form of a bulleted list. Generally start out with a positive/welcoming sentence, then a few minor things that are nice to know but that they are not necessarily doing wrong, then what they are doing (make it nonchalant, not accusing), then a link to the Guide and the Staff lounge. After the list, a sentence or two saying that their work is valued, yada yada yada, and your sig. If your points are covered in Editing tips, try subst-ing that in (you can also look at it to see how tips might be worded). See here for an example. --SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 10:58, 10 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Myth, I hate to keep doing this, but I have to warn you again, for your own good. This is concerning the note you posted concerning external links on the site.  You are not a sysop on this site, I know that you know this.  You should only concern yourself with the content that you contribute to this site and nothing else.  Not policing, not correcting, not pointing out other people's mistakes.  I realize that you are enthusiastic, but when you do this, you look very unprofessional, and unfortunately somewhat immature.  The reason that I know you don't realize the extent of your mistake is because Echelon is the owner of this site.  The last person you should be correcting, or telling what to do, is Echelon.  So please Myth, stick to the matters the concern you, and leave the governing of the site to those who are responsible for it.  Thank you.  Procyon (Talk) 20:59, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Sorry Procyon, but I have to contradict you in this case. @ Myth, Echelon is a ninja, and must not be messed with, though if he does make a mistake you are certain of, try the "email this user" button.  As long as you don't open any windows, he won't uppercut you (he has Real Ultimate Power).  Apart from that, we do value all constructive suggestions, including policy and I encourage you to put forth any ideas or suggestions you may have.  We all have the best interests for the StrategyWiki community at heart, so we welcome your input.  Happy editing! :) -- Prod (Talk) 21:21, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Just to argue semantics, suggesting and submitting ideas is entirely different than correcting and policing. I would never suggest to you, Myth, that you stop submitting ideas on how to make the site better.  I just don't see much value in "tattling" on people, especially when you aren't aware of who they are.  All that aside, Prod's points are very well taken.  Procyon (Talk) 21:53, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * As an overarching comment, there's a User contributions link in the toolbox whenever you visit someones page. I've essentially seen every change made (well, excluding the people who I haven't seen any errors from in a very long time) and whenever he isn't busy writing a guide, I'm sure Procyon check a bunch as well.  Because of this, we tend to know how long certain users have been around for and what kind of styles they write with (ie. who's edits to wince at before checking the diff :P).  Checking someones edit history will let you do this for a specific user.  On the note of policing, be bold, but be extra careful :P
 * On the more specific note of websites, we want to bring good editors to edit the site and keep bad people away. We essentially stay out of peoples user pages (unless it's illegal, or something major).  It lets people show who they are, and help promote the community.  Hopefully we will have forums linked to our SW accounts, but for the moment, this is the only form of expression. -- Prod (Talk) 22:17, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It's "impolite" to go edit someone else's userpage. They are used to tell other people about yourself.  Some people list all their games (on a subpage, same with User:0-172).  Others just tell a bit about themselves (User:Yahweh divine).  Major = anything that would appear negatively on our community as a whole.  Anything illegal is obviously not allowed.  Flaming, threats, blatant advertisement etc. is also fairly major.  It's really up to your judgment.  As for what is or isn't policy, we are still "relatively" new, so very little is "cast in stone".  We've got a lot of it stored in the Guide, but a lot of that is copied over from the standard mediawiki documentation and lots of the policy hasn't been really discussed (consider the fact that we just did a major rename of our most used template on the site).  If you see something that should be changed about policy, suggest it, but be sure to back it up with some good reasoning.  Well, I'm off to bed now.  If you have any more questions/comments leave me a message and I'll get back to you around the same time tomorrow.  -- Prod (Talk) 22:45, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * heh, I give up Myth. I'm trying to help you out, but I'm not entirely sure what your agenda is.  No one is really sure how you ever came to the conclusion that it was "against the rules" to put a link to personal website on your user page.  And I know you didn't know who Echelon was, that's why I made it a point to tell you.  But you obviously feel that you either don't need or want my help, so I'll leave it up to you.  I'll just finish by saying that some of your comments have the tendency to rub people the wrong way.  You're a valuable contributor to this site, I just don't understand why you take it upon yourself to take on matters that don't entirely concern you.  Anyway, if there's anything you need to know directly from me, feel free to ask.  Otherwise, I'll stay out of your business.  Procyon (Talk) 23:20, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Ahaha this whole thing reminds me of all the misinterprentations you guys have had with me as well. Myth, you're comment on Sekoku's page was well within bounds of control. Myth, if you haven't learned yet, try to put everything into a positive light or you risk misinterpretation and others disowning you for it.  This will all roll over soon and Myth will be one of our favorite users =)  (Lol, just noticed how I keep saying Myth, Myth, MYTH!;  That's what I get for never revising.  Dang, just noticed that Sekoku really is a new user and that this is way too many mistakes for one post.)  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:20, 12 June 2007 (CDT)

Pokemon R/S/E
How do I re-challenge gym leaders in R/S/E, I've almost got a gold trainer card in the game (1 Battle tower win was all I needed :Anyway, how did you get 2 Rayquazas, they're pretty easy to catch (I got 1 with a Pokéball) but can u get 2 in 1 game?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 16:03, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * How long (hour wise) does it usually take for them to re-open? I've been playing for almost 200 hours and it hasn't happened yet. (It would be fun to absolutely kill a few of them again, I can 1HKO every Pokémon in the RSE League, and even lv100 Battle Tower is somewhat easy for me). --SkizzerzTalk - Contribs 16:28, 11 June 2007 (CDT)
 * My trick is to go in and out of the place for any other trainer, Skizzers, have you got 50 wins in the battle tower yet? If so, what happens with the gold trainer card and the girl in Sootopolis?--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 01:37, 12 June 2007 (CDT)

Shortcut
If you want to quickly jump to the Sandbox from wherever you are, just type "SW:SAND" into the search box (without the quotes), and click "Go" or press "Enter/Return." SAND is a shortcut redirect to the sandbox. Try it out! (Other Shortcuts can be found here ). -- 15:04, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

Edit counter
here -- 17:47, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Pokémon Diamond and Pearl sparse????
Why is Pokémon Diamond and Pearl considered sparse? It's got a ton of information! I don't know how to do it, but could someone move it to at least the Maturing section? Thanks. Myth 20:24, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Done, and you can move a guide throughout the completion stages by changing the num parameter on the Header Nav. For example, when it is time to move DP up to stage 3, just edit the main page (Pokémon Diamond and Pearl) and change the num=2 to num=3. -- 20:39, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Seriously, this kind of nonsense is embarrassing to you, and embarrassing to the site. I don't know how old you are in real life, but I really hope that you plan on maturing at some point in the near future because, really, I think you'd be insulted if I tried to guess your age.  Procyon (Talk) 22:16, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Spel Chek™
Despite the somewhat humorous heading, the following is a serious suggestion (well, serious in the non-joking sense, not serious as in you should seriously follow it, it's completely up to you). My suggestion is that you get Firefox 2.0 (here). The browser comes with a built in spell checker, so you'll never misspell a word again (well, you CAN, it'll just underline it with a dotted red line). Just a suggestion :P (and if you're wondering where this completely random comment came from, you mentioned on your post to Zaiqukaj's talk page that you didn't know how to spell "etiquette" (you got it right, by the way), so I thought I'd drop by and tell you about the wonders of Spel Chek™!) -- 12:45, 23 June 2007 (CDT) PS-it is not really called Spel Chek™, I just like using that phrase ;-)
 * To answer your questions:
 * It is "free" in both the fact that it is open-source and that it costs squat to download it, use it, update it, add stuff onto it, create your own addons to it, reprogram it...
 * What security stuff are you referring to? It should work with them (its only a web browser), but you might have to configure your firewall to allow it access to the internet (duh). Check out the site from the link above to find other stuff out about it (namely the release notes, features, and privacy policy, as well as the EULA if you're interested in that sort of stuff).
 * 12:59, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Don't forget to add on addons, loads of them are great, adblock is meant to be excellent, the site looks a lot better, PNG's work properly and you've got tabs (Sooooo useful). Sadly my PC's giving me a bit of trouble with FF at the moment. Trust me, when you switch you will never want to go back. It's also a lot safer.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:03, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Myth, It's   Free!!   , so are all the official add-ons (All the ones I had anyway :, you do not need to pay anything.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:12, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I didn't mean to come across like that, sorry. Darned interweb.--Rocky http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/7/78/Rally-X_Rock.png/25px-Rally-X_Rock.png (Talk - Contributions) 13:21, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Uh Myth... if you looked at the first link I provided, you'd see the download button has "Free" right on it. Plus, you might want to check your talk page history so you can see my reply to the DP sparse issue (I'm not retyping it). I fixed it and told you how to for later on. -- 13:26, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Your behavior
Honestly Myth, if what I said rattled you, then it had the intended effect. I was very careful not to use any inappropriate language when I left you that note. Out of every contributor to this site, you are the only one who consistently behaves in a childish manner. By that I mean, over-reacting to small issues that occur, making your problems other people's problems, and generally initiating threads or responding to them in a less than sensitive or tactful manner. It has nothing to do with how knowledgeable you are with the site, or how you write your guides. Your guide contributions, in fact, are the only thing that I honestly feel I can compliment you on. But your attitude and expressed maturity leaves a lot to be desired. This is purely my opinion, and in no way a reflection of the site's feelings as a whole. Sufficed to say, I have spoken with a few other members who agree. But you asked what I meant, so I felt obliged to tell you. Procyon (Talk) 13:30, 23 June 2007 (CDT)


 * I thought perhaps I should be more specific. The comment you left on Community Issues regarding the categorization of the Diamond and Pearl guide was, in my opinion, completely inappropriate.  If you disagreed with the rating, all you had to do was ask how to change it.  Instead, you threw the equivalent of a tantrum, insisting that you disagreed with the rating and everything short of demanding that it be changed.  There was no need to react to the rating in that manner, and it could have been handle much more politely simply by asking how to change the number.  In fact, you didn't even express a desire to learn how, you simply wanted someone to do it because you seemed insulted by the rating.  That is a specific example of what I'm talking about.  I don't always make the best decisions, and I make mistakes all the time.  But one thing I always try to do is be sensitive and thankful towards the people I'm requesting help from.  When I see someone else fail to do that, it irritates me tremendously.  Procyon (Talk) 13:37, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Just to note almost everything on this site can be changed by anyone (content wise...you can't touch the skins or protected pages). If you are unsure how to do something, ask on the Staff lounge and someone would be glad to help.  Community issues is to discuss sitewide changes (ie. layout and policy).  Your contributions to the site have been great so far and I'm glad you have joined us.  -- Prod (Talk) 13:42, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Myth, if you haven't identified the problem yet, it's just that you need to watch how you type. Like, anger and outbursts will get you nowhere but Proc and others' bad sides.  Anyways, just realize that we try to be very objective and "peaceful" here =)  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 14:45, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * I think I've told you this before, but you're not the first. I've gone through a lot of the same criticism.  --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 16:37, 23 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Okay, seriously, this is getting a little silly. All I said was that Pokemon Diamond and Pearl should be moved out of the Sparse category and moved to Maturing or higher. Then I got criticized for it. And it should have stopped there. Could we please get off the subject? It got moved, I was criticized, okay, I'll live with it, and it's all OK. it seems like more than a few of us are getting edgy, so let's get off the topic and cool off a little bit. There, that was a mature and sensible statement. Myth 16:47, 23 June 2007 (CDT) (BTW, I still don't see why putting 1 exclamation point after a sentence is considered a tantrum...)

Myth, you will continue to see things the way that you do, regardless of what I or anyone else has to say to you, that much is clear. Trying to illustrate a problem to you is a waste of time (like your insistence that perhaps Firefox isn't free despite everyone telling you that it is). I am not out to get you. What I am for is the success of this site. You do bring out the worst in me, and that is an issue for myself to deal with. Procyon (Talk) 17:19, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Need a place to ask questions?
Go ahead and bug me all you want. The best place however is the IRC channel. Come visit sometime. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:26, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * It can be accessed from http://irc.abxy.org, just use the command /j #StrategyWiki to join the SW specific channel. -- Prod (Talk) 12:01, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Or if you have an installed client you'd prefer to use, the info for the server is simply irc.abxy.org on port 6667. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 13:15, 24 June 2007 (CDT)

Firefox Addons
Look here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/ --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:02, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

pseudo ToC pages
Please try to avoid making "pretend" ToC pages like Pokémon Mystery Dungeon/Cheat Codes, Pokémon Mystery Dungeon/Appendices, and Pokémon Mystery Dungeon/Getting Started. If the page isn't going to have useful content, there's no point linking it. I'm marking them for deletion, but if you come up with some valuable content for them, do replace them. -- Prod (Talk) 20:02, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * If you see them again, leave me a message. If they are legitimate, I'll explain why, otherwise we can clean em up.  Also, you need to be an admin to "delete" a page (not just blanking which is different).  -- Prod (Talk) 22:53, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
 * Can you link to the specific Spectrobes page? Also, whenever the #StrategyWiki channel is empty, the channel is "deleted".  If you join the channel it should be created with the original topic.  I used to be on all the time (whenever I was awake) but now I have a job so no IRC access :(.  Someone usually joins now and then, just wait around and someone will "eventually" come and help you (eventually may be a few hours though). -- Prod (Talk) 14:00, 26 June 2007 (CDT)