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The archived version is on Archive 1 and Archive 2. --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 04:42, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back[edit]

It's been a while, nice to see you around again :) -- Prod (talk) 04:59, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh wow, long time no edit! I hope you have time to pull off another featured guide this year. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 20:34, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I run into that issue, too. I play a lot of flash games, so I don't work on those, and a lot of times I have a game that I play and don't want to worry about spending time on writing about it, because I want to get through it first! I recommend playing some old classics if you haven't in a while. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 20:51, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Once again, very happy to see you back here :) Procyon 04:46, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

So much for the last guide[edit]

Got stuck and could never finish it. Fortunately I have another game in my sights now; hoping to outdo one fan wiki and one official wikia. --Arrow Windwhistler (talk) 04:02, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Template issue[edit]

Sorry I wasn't available when you wanted to do this. First of all, you probably don't want to use a template for such a complex table. I assume each class has their own Categories, Certificate names, and other values. A template is only effective if most of these are the same. For example, medics have Medical Applicator exclusively, and Heavy Assault has Munitions Pouch. Since they don't both have them, you'd have to come up with a way to exclude them (you could make exclusive parameters where you have like class=medic and everything specific to the medic appears). The point is, there are only like 8 tables that need to be made and they're all on the same page, so it would be easier to just fill one out, and copy it to the others and modify. If you need help setting up the Medic table, to get one started, let me know. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 19:24, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I forgot to say the most important part, which you pointed to in your response. I find that starting with just a table and expanding it to the other areas will help you identify whether or not a template would work. For example, after you copy a table, how much does it have to be modified? Do rows need to be added? Do rows need to be split? The hardest part with a template is filling in all of these little nuances with parameters and switches. Like I said, if you're only using this about 8 times, and it's all on the same page, it definitely makes more sense to copy/paste. A lot of the names in the second row are the same (but a few differ which throws a curveball in template creation), the first column and row titles are the same, so that will be helpful, but the rest seems entirely class specific (all of the values on the right side). You'd have to have like 6 parameters for each row. Like, 20-50 parameters for one small template (that's nuts!). --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 04:11, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Why'd you remove the link? The certifications table is what I've been referring to. I think it is just too complex and huge to jump into. More simplistic templates can of course be created and utilized easily. However, I also forgot that you can create your own way to display the data, instead of copying that site's layout. What I mean is, if you take them all apart, what do they have in common? You can make a separate table of the "common certs" (easily made into a template) and then exclusive certs for each class (probably not template-able). --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 04:27, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
One way to differentiate common versus exclusive in a combined table is to shade the background of, say, the common cells. Light blue works well. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 04:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Let's clarify. I think you are thinking I was suggesting one giant table for ALL classes. I'm suggesting that we keep class-specific tables, like you built for infiltrator, but color some of the areas if they are common. We can always do that after the data is all filled in. I know trying to figure out a template can make filling in the data less tedious, but in this case I think the tables are too complex.
Also, to simplify the tables, don't make separate rows in the levels section just for a description. Just use <br /> and you can keep it in the same box as the image and level number. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 05:10, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Yeah I think it looks fine. The number/value may look better with the cert symbol to the right of it. Is the cert image representative of a currency? Like money or XP? I am unfamiliar with how this system works. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 06:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by that. It looks like you resolved width problems, if there were any. I made the currency images smaller to match the font size. I removed the line breaks between the currency images and the values, so that their format is like "$100". I changed the Default lines to something that makes more sense, and added a 0 credit value, since $Default doesn't make sense, but $0 does. Feel free to put the word default back in if it appears in game. Also, the blue coloring needs to be explained at the top somewhere in a key/legend, before it is used. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 17:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Mmk. I'll let you continue to experiment with layouts and such. Also, use File instead of Image. In the long run it can save a few hundred characters per page, especially with all of those little icons. I can do a quick regex to replace them at some point if I notice you haven't. If you use Google Chrome, I recommend installing the "Search and Replace" extension. It's handy. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 17:41, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Collapsible bars[edit]

You can use this code, extracted from the template:

<div class="NavFrame" style="margin-left:33px;margin-bottom:5px;text-align:left;padding:0">
<div class="NavHead" style="background-color:#D0D0F1">Title</div>
<div class="NavContent" style="display: none">
Content goes here.
</div></div>

Without looking at the code for each of the classes, the first div encapsulates it all and indents the left side. The NavHead has the colored title bar with the javascript show/drop down button. And the NavContent is the separate div that gets hidden until the show button is pressed. Fill in the Title/Content info as you like. You can put parameters in wherever you want changes to be available when calling the template. --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 21:17, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

(skip to the end of the third paragraph for the real point) Honestly, I hate collapsibles. They are only good on this site for hiding spoilers, hiding ToDo lists, and hiding the Table of Contents on every page. I don't like hiding information that you expect to be on the page. Scrolling down 6 lines to bypass a table is easier than having to move my mouse and click on a button to show what I want. And what if I don't know what I want? The table could entice me to analyze something I didn't expect. The MapleStory layout is meh. I would be happier with fully outlined tables and an easier to use page-based ToC, because that's what we want to see: the content. Not names. There is SO much content in these MMOGs, and they are constantly changing. I don't care what the skill is called, because the image and name may change in a later patch... Ok I don't want to rant about MapleStory layouts anymore.
The point is, rather than trying to reproduce all of the information in a game as if we were a database, just focus on what players need to know. It's okay to have information, and we aren't stopping people from adding/updating content, but focus on what's necessary. Do the pages really need all that info? No. What they need are strategies. As in, what skills should people choose? Why? What is better and what works in particular situations? I know you know that much. And, if you want to do this beautifully, make all of the content easily accessible (scrollable), and align the images with it.
I assume Planet Side 2 is class-centric (or, judging the ToC, it is weapon centric? Probably a combination of the two), like other FPSes and RPGs, like the original. Perhaps subpaging each class to their own page would be more beneficial, to give them the space necessary to expand on strategies? It would also increase the priority of page-based ToC headers, so "Certifications" and "Passive Systems" would look better. I just don't know the game enough. Like I tried to say previously: just get the information down. Don't worry about templates, don't worry about making it look flashy. Get what you need on the page! --Notmyhandle (talk contribs) 06:10, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Template ideas[edit]

Hi Arrow. Yeah, there are a couple of ways to solve the issue you're talking about, although I'm not 100% clear on what you're asking for. I thought I understood, and then you asked a second question which I thought was what you were originally asking, so I'm not sure. Adding it to the AoA Unit template is easy, I just need an example of what it's supposed to look like. As for the inline part, tell me which you prefer? Something like:

  1. {{AoAicon|iconname|quantity}}
  2. {{AoAspecificicon|quantity}}

To explain, in the first one, you are given two fields, one to specify which icon you want, and another to specify the quantity. The template will then inline the icon you specify at 20px and put the quantity next to it. In the second one, it's specific to just one icon, so you can't set it. Other than that, it does the same thing as the first, only for just that one icon. If you wanted to do the same thing with a different icon, you'd need to make another template. The first is preferable for a couple of reasons, but the drawback is, you have to specify "CreditsIcon" every time, which you seemed to indicate you'd like to avoid? Let me know what you think. Also, congratulations on graduating! That's awesome! Procyon 01:23, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

So I like your idea about co-opting them template, but the more general I make it, the more you end up having to type. It's the difference between typing:
  1. {{AoAicon|Credits|10}}
  2. {{resicon|AOA CreditsIcon|10}}
You type less in the first one because I can bake "Credits" into the full filename, but in the second case, you have to spell it out since it needs to be more generic. See what I mean? Any preference? I'm ok making the template game-specific. Procyon 02:11, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
OK, check out {{AoAicon}}. Consider it a starting point that could probably use some expansion. Honestly, it's about as simple as templates get, look at the structure of it and you'll understand how I put it together. Procyon 03:16, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

There's another option as well, which is automatically substituting some suffix with the proper icon, e.g. {{AoAIcon|10c}} for 10 credits, 10e for 10 rare earth, 10p for 10 power, etc. It's easier if all of the suffixes are the same length, but that isn't a hard requirement so if you decide to go that route choose something that makes sense for you (something like "10 credits", "10 rare earth", etc. could also work but requires more typing and at that point you might as well just make it two parameters like {{AoAIcon|10|credits}}). If you want to pursue that route, let me know and I can help you out with it. --Skizzerz 05:47, 20 January 2016 (UTC)