User talk:Ganj

Welcome to StrategyWiki!

Hello Ganj! Welcome to StrategyWiki. Thank you for your contributions. If you have any questions, just contact a sysop through their talk page or post on the staff lounge, and they'd be happy to help. If you need help editing, check the StrategyWiki Guide. If you have a question about the content on this wiki, you can check out our staff lounge page. If you want to ask questions or hang out in IRC, we're usually around. On the other hand, if you have ideas for StrategyWiki, bring them up on the forums. Please remember to sign your name on, and only on, talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field as this helps to document all of your hard work. Feel free to delete this message from your talk page if you like, or keep it for reference. Happy editing! -- Procyon (Talk) 12:18, 14 June 2008 (CDT)

No need to apologize

Thanks for registering an account. And there's no need to apologize. I totally get the decision to use stars, I've seen the Japanese command.dat, and it's great for fighting game experts. The thing is that we want the guides to be accessible to players of all skills, and (EX) is more understandable than a star to people who, say, haven't played SF3 before. Also, we want to keep the look and feel of the move lists fairly consistent. That being said, if you have a suggestion for a better way to represent certain concepts, by all means, please let us know. The best place to do this is probably StrategyWiki talk:Move lists project. Take care. Procyon (Talk) 12:18, 14 June 2008 (CDT)

SF4 Portraits

Ganj, the reason it doesn't matter what name you put in the portraits is because they don't exist yet. I need to find similar artwork to the ones I used earlier and upload portraits for them. Procyon (Talk) 22:08, 15 June 2008 (CDT)

Prototype tables

Hi Ganj. Those tables look very impressive. It would be helpful if we worked them into the existing templates so that they could be used across every fighting game. Granted, it will take quite a bit of work to transform every existing fighter on StrategyWiki. Would you be willing to assist with that? Procyon (Talk) 21:41, 23 June 2008 (CDT)

Sorry, more thoughts... We tend to stick to the wikitable style, so if you add class="prettytable" to your tables, that will change the style for you. Also, what about Command Attacks? Procyon (Talk) 21:45, 23 June 2008 (CDT)

I am really blown away by the effort that you put into this. I prided myself when I took the command lists from a text format to the humble table format that we use today, but this takes it to a whole new level that I never envisioned. I see most of what you did working out very well if we create one special move template, with a level parameter, 1 through 6 (e.g. 1 for throws, 2 for command attacks, etc.) Granted, not every game will need all six levels, but none should need any more (I hope!) The biggest problem I see with converting the existing tables is that I created an unfortunate situation by separating inputs into motion and button, whereas your table uses just one input field (which, admittedly, is better. I was trying to line the + up in every table, but it doesn't really gain that much. Some of the changes can be "botted." Anyway, I don't want to overwhelm you with details. Thank you for your efforts. The best place to see what is affected by this is Capcom/Move_lists and SNK_Playmore/Move_lists. Procyon (Talk) 09:24, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

I know that I probably jumped the gun as you may still be in the process of tweaking, but that's OK cuz the templates should be just as easy to tweak, so I went ahead and set up some new templates, namely: Template:Command Header, Template:Command List, and Template:Command Footer, and I was able to transform

Street Fighter II/Ryu

into

through

{{Command Header|SF2|Ryu}}
{{Command List|level=3|name=Hadouken|japanese=波動拳|input={{cade|Qcf}}{{plus}}{{cade|Punch}}|note=Wave Motion Fist aaaa \*...*\ ssss}}
{{Command List|level=3|name=Shoryuken|japanese=昇龍拳|input={{cade|Dp}}{{plus}}{{cade|Punch}}|note=Rising Dragon Punch}}
{{Command List|level=3|name=Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku|japanese=龍卷旋風腳|input={{cade|Qcb}}{{plus}}{{cade|Kick}}|note=Hurricane Kick}}
{{Command Footer}}

I have to admit that it's a big improvement, even though it doesn't take advantage of the different color levels. I also really appreciate how the color levels you choose mirror the colors that we use for the various strength punches and kicks. The only obvious problem that I see is that Ryu's portrait eats into the first set of notes (in Firefox at least, I know it looks different in IE) so I'll have to rethink that. Anyway, I'd love to get your thoughts on this and see what you think. Thanks! Procyon (Talk) 13:00, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

Wow, this code you've developed really simplifies things. Admittedly, I haven't finished with the full project but this...THIS is pree-ty cool. I can actually see how things are taking shape. But I'll let you know/see how things are coming along. Ganj 16:22, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

Awesome, I'm glad you like it. I really appreciate the new ideas that you're injecting into this project. I started a new thread over at StrategyWiki talk:Move lists project, so feel free to check it out and continue this conversation over there (if you like.) Thanks! Procyon (Talk) 16:57, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

Thoughts and ideas

Awesome additions to the table. Two notions come to mind:

1. The Marks addition is great, and we can probably make it an optional column, since earlier games like SF2, SFA, and SFA2 won't need it (but as you've already demonstrated, SFA3 does). Since you added it, would it make sense to you to indicate EX moves through that column? Or do you still prefer the star notation? Since we are redesigning this from the ground up somewhat, we can decide on a convention and stick with it. The other games that I see it affecting are SF3 and Capcom Fighting Evolution, but no others (that I'm aware of. Actually, I suppose Darkstalkers too technically, but that has the whole ES/GC/EG thing going on...)
2. Do you see any utility in my creating an "Optional" template that could wrap optional motions (like holding left or right when throwing) inside parentheses? That way could go from:

<big>(</big>{{cade|Left}} <big>/</big> {{cade|Right}} {{plus}}<big>)</big> {{cade|LPunch}} {{plus}} {{cade|LKick}}

to

{{optional|{{cade|Left}} <big>/</big> {{cade|Right}} {{plus}}}} {{cade|LPunch}} {{plus}} {{cade|LKick}}

It won't save you much typing, but it will be much clearer to other editors and we can make sure all optional motions are notated identically throughout the site. Procyon (Talk) 18:04, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

I like the stars, but (like you said once before) we need to make sure everyone can distinguish what's what. But either way is no problem with me. So having that distinction is important. And "Yes", special parentheses would be VERY appreciated. Ganj 18:27, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

OK,I added in the concept of the Marks column, and it's completely optional. You set it by assigning a parameter in the Command Header, namely "marks", and you just set it equal to anything (like 1). Then you fill in the column of a row by doing a "mark=EX" or something. The nice thing is that I made the use of the mark parameter optional in the Command List template so that if a row has no marks, you don't have to set any (of course the column will still be there it will just be blank.) So now, if you want, we have the ability to do:

Marks	Move Name	Commands	Notes
EX	Hadoken 波動拳	+	EX version knocks down.
EX	Shoryuken 昇龍拳	+
EX	Tatsumaki Senpukyaku 龍卷旋風腳	+	EX version hits crouching opponents.

And finally, I made Template:Optional for you. So you can just use the bottom code I typed above will do: ( / +) + . Unfortunately, I had to modify {{plus}} to get it to work inside the template, but it works. Procyon (Talk) 21:12, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

P.S. Don't go overboard on the rewrites, Prod says he thinks the templates need to be renamed, so stick to developing changes into the prototype for now. Procyon (Talk) 21:58, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

Okay and okay. I'll keep that in mind. Ganj 23:02, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

After seeing this, I understand why you'd rather use a blue star. Personally, I think it's cool, and if the lists were only meant for experts, I'd stick with it. My only concern is whether it's intuitive enough for every user to figure out. But hey, it's cool that we got the input glyphs so close to what Capcom still uses to this day, huh?  :) Procyon (Talk) 23:14, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

So as you can see, DrBob went ahead and added the "prettytable" class to the Command List templates. How do you feel about it? It's sort of an unwritten rule that we always use this type of table throughout the site, so if you feel strongly about not using it, we'll have to bring it up on the forums, but I'm willing to back you up. I hope that Prod can address the name of the template quickly so that we can begin officially applying it to the pages. Procyon (Talk) 22:33, 25 June 2008 (CDT)C

I've been testing it out a bit. It works fine, but the only thing I want to address is the "centering". Though the data is centered in the middle of the column, it's not centered of the the row. Not a big issue but...meh, that can be ironed out in the future. Other than that, I have nothing else to add so far. I mean I'll continue developing new versions but so far everything seems complete. I'm glad this worked out the way it has. Thanx 4 including me. (^_^) Ganj 22:42, 25 June 2008 (CDT)

Hi Ganj. I'm a minor mugen fan. Is there really such a SFV project? Or is what you're building on your user page more like a wish-list for an ultimate Ryu? Procyon (Talk) 23:23, 26 June 2008 (CDT)

Don't worry. (^_^) I'm just tinkering around. It's still the "Command Table" project. I'm just seeing how its flows with a made-up title...You know, try and see it through the eyes of a newcomer. Ganj 23:33, 26 June 2008 (CDT)

Green light

Hi Ganj. We have the green light to use the new command list templates. If any problems with those names are discovered, they can be changed, and fixed throughout the site with a bot. So feel free to replace all of the current SF4 move lists with the new command list templates! Procyon (Talk) 20:57, 4 July 2008 (CDT)

w00t!! (^o^) Ganj 07:23, 5 July 2008 (CDT)

What does the |level parameter mean? -- Prod (Talk) 10:42, 5 July 2008 (CDT)

That's the system, right? You guys changed things?. Let me check the project page...
Okay. The "|level" perimeters are shown above. They denote the type of move the character uses.

• Level 1 = "Grapples"
• Level 2 = "Command Regulars"
• Level 3 = "Special Moves"
• Level 4 = "Specialty"
• Level 5 = "Super Moves"
• Level 6 = "Ultra Moves"

The number used will determine the type/level of the moves when you construct the tables. Ganj 10:59, 5 July 2008 (CDT)

I'd suggest changing it from an arbitrary number to |move=grapple so that it's more descriptive of what it represents. -- Prod (Talk) 13:26, 5 July 2008 (CDT)

The only problem with that suggestion is that not every game will use each level for the same purpose. For example, while almost every game is going to use Level 3 for special moves, Level 4 might be used for Alpha Combos in SFA, or the Dark Force move in Vampire Savior, etc. I just assumed that we would include a key table at the top of each moves page to designate each color so that it was clear. Perhaps we should move this discussion to StrategyWiki talk:Move lists project

Official Capcom command lists

Check this out. Procyon (Talk) 13:22, 11 July 2008 (CDT)

Ohhh, SWEET!! TIME TO GET CRACKIN'! (B>) Ganj 16:13, 11 July 2008 (CDT)

You know...I originally thought about making the command tables like that. Ganj 16:17, 11 July 2008 (CDT)