User talk:Procyon

I welcome any and all feedback here, so please post your thoughts. Thank you.

Archived discussions:
 * 2006
 * 2007
 * 2008
 * 2009
 * 2010
 * 2011
 * 2012
 * 2013

Two new featured guides
Hi Proc, can you take a look at http://strategywiki.org/wiki/StrategyWiki:Featured_guides/Current_requests and see if they can be upgraded now? I think they are both worthy. Thanks! -- 20:55, 7 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I know this is silly, but since I haven't done it before, I can do it? I am unsure of whether or not we need more support before making them featured. -- 18:55, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hey NMH, two things. First and foremost, I have absolute trust in you, so if you want to do it, I fully support you.  Second, I apologize for not responding sooner, this has been a crazy week.  However, I will have some free time over the weekend, when I can scrutinize the guides.  I doubt that I will find anything that would prevent me from supporting the nominations, but if you don't mind waiting, I can take a look and officially add my support, then you can go ahead an promote the guides once I add my sig.  Does that sound good to you?   Pro  cyon  00:15, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Zelda: A Link to the Past
On Zelda: A Link to the Past I can't get past dark world level 5 because the block that I push off can't be pushed over the tile with the button for some reason. Level 5 in Dark World is the lake and ice level. I can only push the block once, but in order to move it over the tile with the button I need to push it three times. What is going on? Qewr4231 (talk) 08:33, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

simcity societies scenarios walkthroughs
hi procyon, well i started to do some work in the SCSD guides as it isn't a very popular game and the section is REALLY very abandoned, personally, your deletion request really freaked me out, I already read your warnings and recommendations so the article should be clean now, if there is something still lacking, please help fixing it as i am not a native speaker and the wild typo can suddenly appear sometimes, that's all by now i'll go back to expanding the walkthroughs.ErnstCornell (talk) 23:43, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Bionic Commando (NES) nominated for featured guide
Please add your support/comments to Featured guides/Current requests. Thank you. --
 * Yeah, no problem. I know how busy we all are, so if I don't see a response for a couple of days I figure I might as well go ahead with "being bold" as we say here. I haven't messed with featured guides in a long time so I was at first hesitant, which is why I asked you to do it at first. Just let me know if you notice any big changes that should be discussed. -- 21:59, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Mega Man
The issue is that it's a four boss run, without any healing. Ice Man is the most powerful of the Robot Masters in terms of attack power, and is deadly on his own. The player will have already fought Bomb Man and Fire Man, and will likely be injured, and they need to have enough health to survive Guts Man afterwards. It doesn't make any sense to suggest a skill-based strategy in that circumstance, since failing to dodge leads to taking a lot of damage. The thing about the Robot Masters' stages is that you don't need to have mastered the strategy for beating them in order to defeat them, you just need to win once to clear their stage. In my case, I took a break from the game for a week or two after beating the Robot Masters since Yellow Devil was a major pain, and then came back and finished it off, so fighting Ice Man was hardly fresh (I was playing on the 3DS, which allows me to suspend play). I get that if you put a lot of time into building the skills to fight Ice Man, you're going to feel that you should use them, but there isn't any reason whatsoever to do that the second time round, since once you've killed him you can flee the scene. --Poppy Appletree (talk) 04:28, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Data loss
Well, looks like I'll have to save everything I do in a text document in case this happens again. I'll just look up a video of the quests to re-do them. And if I can think of anything, I'll let you guys know. --PirateIzzy (talk) 04:32, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Alright, I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Text documents work pretty good for me too though. --PirateIzzy (talk) 02:57, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Pokemon red world map
Excuse me, can I please ask why the complete world map of pokemon red was removed? I thought it would be a great inclusion since players could use it to follow the walkthrough better.


 * Because it was redundant to the content already available on the site. Maps for all locations are available on the pages which reference them.  Why would we ask users to visit a different site and switch back and forth between windows and tabs when all of the information is cleanly presented on one page?  We're not a showcase for other site's features, no matter how cool they may be.  Off-site linking should only occur if the content is out of scope for the site.   Pro  cyon  00:26, 6 March 2014 (UTC)


 * ah, okay. That makes sense. Well cheers, and thanks for the great job on the walkthrough.

Support
Thanks so much for supporting me on Super Mario Bros. 2 and finishing up Super Mario Advance that helped out a lot :) - RodKimble (talk) 20:20, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Donkey Kong walkthrough adjustments
Talk:Donkey Kong/Walkthrough. A new user brought up some issues. Appears to be version differences related. Please respond, thanks. -- 17:10, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Pokemon crystal
What did you mean by this diff? Crystal shares the same ToC as Gold and Silver... -- 05:20, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey, I know they do, I was just trying to exclude the use of the undefined for only Crystal-exclusive information, much like how you're highlighting the instances of Super Mario Advance information. In that particular edit, the sidebox a) wasn't about information exclusive to Crystal and b) wasn't about anything that wasn't mentioned elsewhere (in the items section) and that the player couldn't figure out on their own anyhow.  So I just chopped that one instead of trying to find a new home for the info.   Pro  cyon  23:39, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The only thing useful from it was "You can pick up Paralyze Heal on the right side of the first floor.", which wasn't mentioned in the items section. Added. Thanks. -- 02:06, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Picross e series naming conventions
Hi Proc, I need some help. Jupiter corporation lists their games on their site with the following typeset format: PICROSS e#. Standard naming conventions for titles would display it as Picross E#. However, I started a naming trend here like so: Picross e#, which follows sentence case. Which one should we go with? -- 17:04, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * , and I have always both felt that the best policy was to match whatever was on the title screen and/or box artwork as closely as possible.  So if they user a lowercase e, I believe we should as well.  A redirect with a capital E is always welcome, but if the official name incorporates a lowercase e, than the official guide name should as well.  As for the capitalization of "Picross" that one is a little tougher.  It feels stupid to follow one convention (using the lowercase e) but not another (putting Picross in all caps).  That one is a little bit more of a judgement call.  I guess the two choices are between Picross e and PICROSS e, and personally, I would go with the first, just to make it easier for people, and redirect the second.   Pro  cyon  23:47, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing. Boy are our standards weird. Sentence case + typesetting/signature formatting. Thanks for the thoughts. -- 00:29, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Accept homebrew/hacked/ripoff/clone image files as part of the original specific-game image category?
Hi Procyon! During my works on swapping GIFs for PNGs for the wiki (and compressing to the max), I came across these two pages: Donkey Kong/Versions and Pac-Man/Versions. What they have in common is that they feature homebrews, hacks, ripoffs, and clones of the original game. In addition to uploading the PNG files, I was adding the appropriate specific-guide name categories into their pages that weren't implemented until around 2008; adding on images that were uploaded in around 2006. I came across one of those particular images and it stopped my tracks.

These images are uploaded and added to the page as part of the game page as a showcase of influences that the game has made through the actions of homebrews, hacks, ripoffs, and clones being created; but do not have a game-specific image category entry (with the exception of homebrew images of Pac-Man for the Atari 2600, but curiously not for the Atari 7800). Therefore, it would be appropriate that they have their own game-specific image category and their own game guide page. However, it doesn't seem that they would have their own game guide pages at this time to this setup of displaying the content info. So logically, if an image is uploaded to that specific game in that page, it must have the game-specific category under the same name (File:DKing_TRS80_Stage1.png for Donkey Kong and Category:Donkey Kong images, not Donkey K i ng and Category:Donkey K i ng images) due to the category description's phrasing "Images pertaining to ."; unless it must be referred to the game itself, and related connections (like perhaps remakes), and not the game guide page in the wiki.

Should those distinctive images be categorized with their own image category? I am saying this because their only category they have is Category:Screenshots, as they don't have a distinctive category for themselves right now. --RAP (talk) 10:11, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * If the image is exclusively used on a guide, then it is obviously categorized for that game. E.g. File:DK 2600 Stage2.png should have Category:Donkey Kong images on it (it didn't; I added it). If a version has an exclusive guide here, then its image can be categorized with that (e.g. Category:Rayman: Raving Rabbids (Wii) images). If the image pertains to two guides, then you could put one or both, whatever makes sense. If two or more guides have been combined, we are not going to separate them and thus they do not need their own main page, nor their own image category. Note that an image can be used from a different game, on any guide page, as an example of something, and not require a game-specific category. That category is for the game it came from. E.g. you could compare title screens for similarities or something, but you wouldn't put the same game-specific category on both, that would be illogical. -- 23:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your input, I appreciate more clarity for me to understand better; however, Procyon already answered this back in my talk page some time ago before you responded.


 * On the sentence about an image that has more than two categories: this means that File:PM_Blinky.png, which has three game-specific categories (that were added over the years since it's existance from the history): Category:Ms. Pac-Man images, Category:Jr. Pac-Man images, and Category:Super Pac-Man images; should only have Category:Pac-Man images instead of having all four categories altogether (which curiously isn't categorized under as the originator that was followed by the sequels)?


 * Does this mean that this image arbitrarily doesn't belong to any other game despite reappearing in the same form, and only categorized by it's originating game? If I visit Category:Ms. Pac-Man images with this in effect, with only one guide-specific category (which would be Category:Pac-Man images), and File:PM_Blinky.png is nowhere to be found; it implies that Blinky doesn't exist in Ms. Pac Man. The same thing will happen if the image doesn't have a game-specific category. --RAP (talk) 23:55, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * , it is not the policy to update the categories of every image whenever they are re-used in a different guide. That being said, it's also not forbidden.  An image must have the category of the first game guide it appeared in.  An image may have any additional guide categories if it's being reused.  Whether you take the time and effort to do that is optional, and it will be appreciated, but it is not required.   Pro  cyon  00:13, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Create Category:Cropped screenshots? and confusion between Category:Icons & Category:Sprites
Hi again Procyon! On my continuing adventures of GIF to PNG converting and image categorization. I came across Miracle Warriors, which you created. What I noticed is that some of the images like overworld locations, NPC interactions, and an image of confronting the final boss; while they have Category:Miracle Warriors images, they don't have a general image category (like Category:Screenshots, Category:Sprites, or Category:Icons). Would this permit a new category like "Category:Cropped screenshots"? It might sound silly, but the word "screenshot" implies that it is an image that is screencaptured without any visual modifications (like cropping, adding markers, or highlighting areas); skimming Category:Screenshots's gallery, most of the images are categorized correctly under there that follows that I said.

On a related note: In Miracle Warriors/Items, after collecting all GIF files to convert, the same situation arises: no general image category. The first thought was to categorize it under Category:Sprites because they are 2D (usually pixelated) image art assets that came directly ripped from the game; then I found out that Category:Icons exist. Seeing both of them, and skimming down a load of gallery images, I got utterly confused on which category to use. While Category:Sprites is more consistent, Category:Icons is a mess. Originating from MarioWiki, a category for icons do not exist, so they get slotted under the sprites category. I'm not entirely sure what to do...it doesn't help that achievement-related images are mixed into the mess. This is a situation that even Candy Crush Saga has a sprite sheet of the candies in original humongous size; does shrinking them down (if we make a guide for the game) mean we have to create Category:Cropped sprites?

I really tend to overthink at these kinds of things when they are in question, because I want to continue doing the work with the amount of clarification I should receive; detail and design-oriented at times, making sure something has a reason. --RAP (talk) 04:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Category:Icons are for icons. If you are unsure, then it doesn't matter, just pick the one you prefer. Sprite makes more sense for items that appear as collectible power-ups. Whereas icon is better for representations shown only in menus. I usually categorize character portraits as Category:Artwork. "Cropped screenshots" is the same thing as Screenshots to us. So no new category. We do not differentiate modified and unmodified screenshots. -- 23:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Create more game specific images by content type subcategories?
Hi Proycon, when I joined the wiki long ago, I found out that: I find it interesting that it hasn't been enforced in full force by seeing the very small amount of category links. Does this only apply with a ton of images under a specific content type? My apologies if it overwhelms you, would it be more preferable to move some of the discussions to Staff lounge?--RAP (talk) 08:29, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Category:Sprites contains subcategories like Category:Castlevania II: Simon's Quest item images {2008 April},
 * Category:Maps's Category:Final Fantasy III maps {2006 July},
 * Category:Screenshots's Category:Castlevania II: Simon's Quest area images {2008 March} (which is supposed to be under Category:Maps);
 * And even Category:SNK vs. Capcom: Card Fighters Clash images, a game-specific guide category, has Category:SNK vs. Capcom: Card Fighters Clash character card images {2010 April}!
 * OK, this was quite a lot to deal with, I'm just going to tackle it all here. @, you are overthinking this to some extent.  Here's the deal (and we may need to have a bigger discussion about this in the Staff Lounge, or the guide may need to be updated.)   may be able to help me with some of the history on the site, but the whole image categorization issue is a bit of a quagmire for the community.  When the site started, we used those generalized catagories; sprites, artwork, icons, etc.  Some people used them exclusively, some people didn't use them at all, and some people used specialized categories like the Castlevania II categories.
 * After a while, the whole thing became a mess, and people didn't agree on what was a sprite vs. an icon, and what was a screenshot vs. a map, etc. At some point (although I can't precisely remember when), the community decided that it would be far more beneficial for the organization of the images if they were organized by game title first, and then if applicable, a secondary category like screenshot.  In fact, the whole sprite category fell out of favor entirely, although efforts to wipe it out have obviously been unsuccessful.  The problem is, 10 or 20 years down the road (if the site still exists hopefully), if you visit Category:Screenshots, you're going to be presented with a list of over 100,000+ screenshots that you can only navigate in alphabetical order, 500 at a time at best.  This is completely impractical.  On the other hand, each guide will only have a fraction of that many images (of any category), so it's much easier to navigate through a guide's image category (assuming you can find it, but any image in a guide should help you find that guide's image category.)
 * Therefore, categorizing each image by its intended guide is presumably far more useful for users to search for similar and related images than the secondary umbrella categories which are ballooning beyond practical navigation. So with respect to your question, should you be applying those secondary categories?  To me personally, it's less important, and somewhat arbitrary which ones you use (e.g. icon vs sprite).  Does that mean you shouldn't apply them if you want to?  No, by all means, please apply them if you'd like to.  But that's why you may find a couple of images, for example from me, with a primary guide image category, but no second category when what I've uploaded doesn't cleanly fall into a label like screenshot or artwork.  Even if I chose one, I'm basically just tossing the image into a ridiculously oversized bin where it's going to drown in a sea of similarly categorized images.  In other words, as long as the game guide image category is there, how much use does the secondary category have?  It doesn't hurt to have it, but it doesn't help tremendously either.  But this entire response should really be regarded as just my $0.02.  Like I said, it may be necessary to raise a larger discussion in the Staff Lounge.  The only thing I would caution against: don't let getting hung up on policy prevent you from being otherwise productive around the site.   Pro  cyon  00:02, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

I was attacked
Hi Procyon. My user page was vandalized by an anonymous. It's quite disturbing. Was I the only target or is it more widespread? I'm telling you because you are an administrator. --Abacos (talk) 14:54, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I remembered the recent changes page. I could see that attacks are going on. If the vandal targeted me, it was probably just by chance, or just because I've been active in the last few hours. --Abacos (talk) 15:01, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Given the randomized text and that it foings around on random pages, it's a (broken) spambot that somehow thinks those pages can be used to advertise. It gets worse on less patrolled wikis. --Sigma 7 (talk) 18:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, I was wondering about the reason behind vandalizing the website in this way. Thanks for the explanation. --Abacos (talk) 19:07, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Mario Bros. 2
What is Mario Bros. 2? It is in the Mario series template. A stub would be handy for now. -- 21:47, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah, I saw that and forgot all about it. Thanks for reminding me.  I don't know what the original author's intent behind "Mario Bros. 2" was, since as far as I know, no such game exists.  There is a Japanese FDS title known as "Kaette Kita Mario Bros," which was released for the Europe NES on a cart called "Return of Mario Bros." but all it is, is a more faithful adaptation of the arcade version than the original Mario Bros. release.  Perhaps that's what they meant, but in any event, it should be folded into the main Mario Bros. article, so I'm pretty sure "Mario Bros. 2" can be removed.  Pro  cyon  23:35, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * @, I think I solved the mystery of "Mario Bros. 2". I think it refers to this game.  But it's completely unofficial, and does not belong in the template.  Still, it's pretty cool that someone ported a Game & Watch game that early on.   Pro  cyon  13:57, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you. I created the Mario Bros. II page and removed it from the template. Wikipedia has a series of unofficial Mario games. Maybe we should, too? -- 17:02, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

External content questions
Long ago, I asked some of the questions to when I gathered up a boat load of links for the wiki (and still do), but couldn't answer them due to lack of knowledge, so now I'm going to ask the person who runs the website, you Procyon. I'm asking you such questions because after reading most of the Guide pages, I felt that there were certain angles that weren't tackled, or not clarified in detail: Such answers of clarifications are greatly appreciated for the continuation of contributions of the wiki right now, and in the future; thus it is so that there is no misunderstanding of what external content is allowed or not allowed to be used as the wiki continues to exist. --RAP (talk) 07:35, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
 * If say a website that is dedicated to hosting walkthroughs/cheats/tips went defunct, taken offline, or got rid all of their content to start anew, would their own produced guides be usable? What about user-submitted guides? Such of the website's content cannot be found normally in any way unless it is archived like Archive.org. If a website doesn't want to be archived in the first place, they would've used robots.txt to block their web crawler, or ask the archiving website a request to exclude the website from being archived.
 * Would this apply the same with userpages like Geocities (think game shrines back then!) or anything similar?
 * As someone who watches Let's Play videos (and sometimes multiplayer videos), is it viable to use the content and convert it into writing form? The difference is that one has to interpret how the player in the video goes through the game, which is slower than importing written content and wikify it. While they are made as entertainment for the viewer, they indirectly give info on how the player goes through the game since the player's actions are the property of their videos, not the game company that made the game. An example is YouTube user Northenlion on playing Binding of Issac, which I'm on Episode 10; he has made over 600 episodes consisting of videos clocking 30-50 minutes each since September 2011. Interestingly, I found out that the wiki has embbed videos (without ads, and with ads) back to it's source, as Guide/External_links has informed me.
 * Is the use of the content factored whether or not they make money off creating videos through ads?
 * Would the same be applied in a walkthrough-intended direction?
 * Speaking of Archive.org, because the website is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, would the archived content (not the webpages, but individual files) be usable? I find it fascinating that the website has an archive most of the G4TV videos (web-only content, and the shows themselves) after they have announced they have shut down, with the staff laid off (even though the website G4TV.com is still there, pending it's disappearance in the future). I'm not sure if they had content takedowns because I don't check the individual files section very much (and just focused on browsing archived webpages), but I'm sure they have to do so due to being prominent in the internet. They don't make money off hosting the content due to relying on donations to keep them stable.
 * @, I'll do my best to respond to each of these, but let me know if I overlook anything.
 * Concerning offline walkthroughs/cheats/tips; Cheats do not need to be credited. Tips usually do not unless they are substantial (more than a sentence or two).  Walkthroughs are another matter.  If a walkthrough has a submitted author credit, we are obligated to make a "good faith" effort to get in touch with the author and ask for permission before we thrust someone's work into the public domain.  If you attempt to make contact and receive no reply, then it depends.  If it appears that the author of the walkthrough and the author of the website are the same, the content can be brought to this site, with proper attribution to the original source of the walkthrough.  On the other hand, if the walkthrough is contributed to the site by another user, you may only reproduce the content with that author's permission.  (Circumstances may be different if it can be determined that the author is deceased.)  And yes, all of the above applies to offline sites like GeoCities.  As long as we can show that an effort has been made to contact an author, we are ok.  Of course, if we don't hear from a user and use their content, and then subsequently reply indicating that they do not give us permission, we have to comply with the request, which can make things messy if new content has been applied on top of the old.
 * Converting video content to written walkthrough content is completely permissible, as you are generating new intellectual content. It would be nice if the source video was mentioned in the edit summary, but it's entirely not required.  The argument here is that there's little to distinguish someone else's video play through of a game, with your own personal experience with the game, since two different people playing through the same game are entirely likely to have similar play experiences from one another.  You could watch the video and learn from it, then play through the game yourself repeating the actions you saw, and then go on to describe those actions on this site.  Alternatively, you could skip the middle step of playing the game for yourself, and go straight from watching to describing.  Including the middle step will enrich the quality of what you write, but you still have the right to describe what you saw in someone else's video, as that is your own work.  The advertisement vs. non-advertisement argument is irrelevant in this case.
 * Content from archive.org falls under the exact same rules and stipulations as my response to the first question. Archive.org's state as a non-profit does not change our responsibility to at least attempt to reach out to the original content authors and attempt to gain permission for the rights to reproduce the content, expressly because we are not classified as a non-profit.  The only case where we are not required to seek authorization is when the content is already made available through a compatible license (CC-BY-SA 3.0), in which case it is assumed that the permission has already been sought and obtained, and we are merely obligated to maintain the attribution to the original author of the content.
 * That should just about cover every question you asked, but let me know if I missed anything, or if you still have further questions.  Pro cyon  13:57, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Procyon, here are another round of questions (actually it's just 1 question with 2 sub-questions) worth tackling further: This is pretty much it for a while, until other things hidden from my eyes suddenly pops up of course. --RAP (talk) 06:23, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding walkthrough-like content in the form of text or writing, would the same be applied under a user comment or post from a forum or blog? It may sound like I'm stretching and dispersing what is something that can be copyrighted, and something that can just be a thought voiced using a social platform, but this is more crystal clear clarification I need to know before I will add more content to the wiki in the future.
 * Is just creating a comment, opinion or thought copyrighted by the user?
 * If someone in a game topic / blog post puts out specific details of the person's thoughts on the game they are playing at the moment, or gives advice to a struggling player; are they indirectly producing their own walkthrough guide?


 * The rule of thumb is that all written content will have to be re-written to avoid plagiarism. All submissions by people (even anonymous) are copyrighted by the website it is located at. That means that some blogs may take ownership. Sites like Facebook claim ownership of all content. Guide sites take credit for all submissions, though some allow users to self-credit and license their content out however they like. This website takes ownership of your submissions, but it is licensed under CC-BY-SA. -- 16:08, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * @, pretty much hit the nail on the head.  It's not so much about whether a post on a blog or facebook is copyrighted or not.  Chances are, even if they were, you could sneak the content on here, and no one would even notice what you did.  The point is that it's just bad policy to reproduce anyone's work without seeking permission first.  Presumably, if the post is small enough, it shouldn't take much effort to re-word the post, however slightly, and make it your own work.  That happens all the time.  And if it's generic enough (e.g. "The coin is in the third block.") so that anyone could have constructed the same sentence, then there isn't even any need to rewrite it.  But always air on the safe side; When in doubt, get permission or rewrite it.  Obviously, if the licensing is present and compatible, there's no doubt, just grab it and cite the source.   Pro  cyon  19:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Items Table
One thing i noticed is how some pages have fancy Item Table (like Pokémon_Gold_and_Silver/Mt._Mortar) while other only have a simple List (like this one in Pokémon_Gold_and_Silver/Whirl_Islands). Can you standardized all pages with the fancy table? Paco (talk) 08:39, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
 * @, yeah, I know, I'm just trying to lay all of the content down first, and then I was going to go back and try to standardize all of the formatting, which is a little easier to do, but a little more brain-dead as well. When I get all the way through laying in the content, I plan to go back through the guide and standardize all of the formatting.   Pro  cyon  13:57, 8 April 2014 (UTC)