User talk:Abacos

Welcome to StrategyWiki!
Hello Abacos! Welcome to StrategyWiki. Thank you for your contributions. If you have any questions, just contact a sysop through their talk page or post on the staff lounge, and they'd be happy to help. If you need help editing, check the StrategyWiki Guide or visit the IRC channel to chat, we're usually around. On the other hand, if you have ideas for StrategyWiki, bring them up on the forums. To keep up-to-date with the goings on of the wiki, consider adding the noticeboard to your watchlist.

Please remember to sign your name when leaving comments on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (    ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to delete this message from your talk page if you like, or keep it for reference. Happy editing! — 19:21, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Pokemon taxonomy
Aha, I got a kick out of your user page. Very cool! -- 20:36, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. For a user whose only constructive edit to the site has been one small grammatical correction, I'm not certain how much we should support multiple and frequent edits to content on a user page which, while creative, provides no benefit to the site or its users, and would be more suited for Google Drive. I would much prefer to see you making more constructive and factual edits to guides that we could use much more help with.  Pro cyon  16:20, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * (lol @ NotMyHandle's response on my talk page.) He is correct, I'm an admin and one of the co-owners of the site, but I don't like to throw my weight around. I was merely expressing my opinion. You're welcome to continue editing your user page, I would just prefer to see some other helpful edits around the site. Goodness knows I make my share of typos and errors (as you have seen), so I know there are plenty to fix. Off the record, I understand and sympathize with your philosophical position, I'm just not sure that you're going to convince Creationists about evolution by using Pokemon as an example of proof...  Pro  cyon  17:02, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I have no intention of booting you off just for working on your user page. I'm just protective of the site from people who use it exclusively for their own personal scratch pad instead of contributing useful edits as well.  Again, I understand your position, and I'm like minded, but arguing the point here is like traveling to Columbia to argue your position on Palestinian-Israeli relations; no in Columbia cares.  I highly doubt that anyone with an opposing position to yours is going to come to this site, see your user page, and be swayed by your arguments.  And from personal experience, the amount of effort you pour into convincing them usually does not produce satisfying results.   Pro  cyon  21:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Paco beat me to it, but yes, everyone is welcome to begin a new guide, no matter how new they are to the site. The admins will help and make sure to include any formatting details you might have missed.  So please feel free, anyone who wants to add an old-school RPG definitely has my blessing (not that they need it, just saying...)   Pro  cyon  14:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Have you looked up what the term is for "evolution" in Pokemon in the original Japanese games? It would be interesting to see what word they use compared to English. -- 16:37, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Japanesu Nihongo
 * NMH's question really interested me, so I did some research. On the Japanese Wikipedia page, they use the term shinka (進化), which is literally translated as evolution.  進 means progress and 化 means the action of becoming.  Very interestingly, the article goes into some of the changes made to the game to make it acceptable in Islamic regions where the term "evolution" was forbidden.  Although this is now a translation from Arabic to Japanese, the Japanese term used to replace 進化 is hentai (変態) which in this context is translated as metamorphosis or transformation, although it also means pervert or weirdo in Japanese, and where the English term for animated pornography originates.  Pro  cyon  16:10, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Mega Man Battle Network/Battle Chips
I moved the explanation to the beginning of the article. There shouldn't be anything afterwards; reference-like notes aren't necessary. A general description of battle chips or a link to a different section would be useful (I'm just brainstorming). My main reason for posting here was to request that you provide an example of how to read the data in the "Program advance" column. Like, "For example, FtrSword's Program's strength is (l3*) 2xHero B, and if you use the chip in n.1 it..." (I have no prior knowledge of this game, nor the mechanics/layout of the menus/equipment allocation process; such an explanation would be very nice at /Getting Started. -- 03:09, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What do the stars mean on the Program Advance page, such as "10x HeroSwrd B*****"? -- 16:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info! So, are the stars actually part of the name in the game? Or do they have a separate "Stars"-like stat? -- 15:56, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Then it looks like the entries in the star columns, such as "07" should just be single digit "7" (no significant digits necessary here). Also, under Suggested Folders there is this sentence which I am confused about,
 * "Some chips are available in one copy only in the video game, therefore it would be necessary to link two GameBoys-Advance and exchange chips to gather more of the same type."
 * Do you mean,
 * "Some chips are available only once in the game. As such, to acquire more of the same unique chip it is necessary to link two Game Boy Advances and transfer a chip acquired in the other game cartridge."
 * -- 17:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, great. Would you mind jotting down these nuances at the start of the page? Thanks. -- 17:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy white magic
Hi Abacos. It's fine if you want to expand the existing spell information on the white magic page, but the page is already big enough and the last thing it needs is another table with redundant information. Having the information sortable really isn't very helpful.  Pro cyon  02:44, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel free to create mock-ups at User:Abacos/Sandbox. The column with the type shouldn't have "a - type" or "c - type" in the cell; just "type". I think the consolidated table was harder to read than the split up tables. -- 15:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Suggestion: remove Sun-Tzu classifications and replace with "Non-combat", "Support", "Debuff", and "Attack". I think those are all straight forward; especially since the target column right next to it clarifies it. -- 17:23, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Frankly, I'm not certain what benefit reducing the eight tables into one giant table will provide. The presentation of the spells according to the eight levels provides a clear enough breakdown of all 32 spell without potentially confusing matters by forcing users to hunt for the spell they are looking for in a huge list. What do you propose a large table will help clarify?  Pro cyon  03:28, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Our standard is sentence case; do not capitalize any words in a title beyond the first that are not pronouns
Thank you. -- 21:36, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * NMH is not talking about game titles, he's talking about walkthrough headers, those things between the equal signs. For example:

This Is Wrong

 * Game titles should always be capitalized, except for the words like "the," "or," "a," "an," "and," or "to" and prepositions of four letters or fewer unless they are the first word in the title. For example:

 Pro cyon  03:06, 16 June 2012 (UTC)


 * "Why making a grammar difference?" I got a kick out of that one. The main thing here, that you haven't realized for the sake of argument, is that we do not identify headers as actual titles, such as with the title of a novel. Maybe you can help change that stance.  The point was to standardize the layout of the site for monitoring purposes.  -- 17:55, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * My "shorter" answer. If it's copied from in-game, match the case.  Otherwise, sentence case. -- Prod (talk) 18:01, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Ability/item classifications
"Peace" doesn't make any sense to me. Support is also peaceful. Healing spells are restorative; better classified as "Restoration" or simply "Support." Non-combat is a widely used term for out of battle skills, such as exit. I suggest that we break down the classifications into more specific ones (e.g. Support into Buff and Healing/Restoration) and use Non-combat for those special skills; it is also a good way to mark support skills that can be used out of battle (so a healing spell could be listed as two types: Restoration as well as Non-combat). -- 18:00, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The five make sense to me. Sorry to be so against "Peace" - it is just ambiguous when used in this context. Times of "peace" may not be peaceful; e.g. if you're walking around in a dungeon with monsters nearby... It's just too odd, whereas non-combat is straightforward. -- 00:02, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Non-combat is more specific than "Miscellaneous spells", which is also what they are. We could make things even MORE complicated and just call them "teleportation" or "telekinetic" spells... Really, these type designations are arbitrary and not really that useful if the individual spell info has these details explained on a per-spell basis. The point is to come up with type designations that are shorthand for certain properties; e.g. "Non-combat" means either "This cannot be used in battle" or "This can be used outside of battle." This is important for healing spells that may be used in combat, but may not be used outside of battle (depending on the game/ability). I was against the type column for these games for this specific reason, since the designations are not specific. -- 16:25, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Travel looks fine. Make sure the type designation applies accurately to all of the spells in a list (each game needs to be reviewed individually for exceptions). Also, please remove the blank rows. They are unnecessary and add junk space when sorting. -- 23:04, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I noticed in DW3 or 4 spells that Antidote was listed as travel. Is it not useable in battle as well? -- 16:28, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It can be used in Battle and outside of it. Paco (talk) 18:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Abacos thinks it can only be used outside of battle... -- 19:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, in DW3 it can be used in Battle and Outside. I'm not sure for DW4 though. Paco (talk) 08:49, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Roger that. @Abacos: I saw your comments on Paco's page. There's no need to duplicate the conversation on multiple pages unless you really want me to comment, like I did so, here. I have both of your talk pages on my watch list so I see the changes that are made. -- 21:44, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Exploration/Combat
Those are not categories, they are use cases. I changed the header of the column from "Type" to "Use". Look, Abacos, I'm speaking strictly for myself here as a guide writer and user of the site, and not as an administrator, but I don't think trying to find a universal (and highly subjective) classification system for spells across RPGs is a productive area for SW guides to explore. If there are in-game classifications like Final Fantasy's Black and White magic, then it belongs in the guide. Otherwise, the amount of confusion and disagreement it lends is greater than the amount of informative help it provides. It would be far more helpful if you help generate content for guides that don't yet exist, than to attempt to apply deeper analysis to existing guides. That kind of contribution, while interesting from a philosophical stand point, is generally outside of the scope of this site, or at best, left to the talk pages of a guide instead of in the guides themselves. Other editors may disagree with me, and that's fine, we run the site democratically, but I am somewhat dismayed by the amount of distraction this discussion has caused. Again, this is simply my personal opinion. Finally, yes, there are Illustrations for DW4 magic, but that was released in 1990, and I'm quite far from there, still stuck in the first quarter of 1988, so it will be a while before I get around to obtaining and scanning the pictures.  Pro cyon  22:52, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You can continue working on anything. The point here is to not create more work than necessary, and to stay objective/confined to the information presented within the game. Original research, to some degree, and "subjective" classifications are unnecessary and could potentially be removed by future editors, since it may be difficult to complete if left unfinished. Also, recreating tables, when the data is already in a readable format, is also unnecessary. If it is objective to the game, however, it will not. Keep it simple! -- 16:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * By all means, please build a guide for Ultima 4. I'm not slated to work on that for a long time, and it's not one of the RPGs that I'm more familiar with so I think that would be great.  In fact, if you wanted to expand the walkthrough for Ultima 3, that would be cool too.  Pro  cyon  22:57, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, we have to start somewhere. The NES version is just as good as any other. As far as http://codex.ultimaaiera.com is concerned, based on their licensing you must adhere to the following:
 * "Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work)."
 * So, in the edit summary, just put the URL of the page(s) you copied from. -- 15:29, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * But Abacos is the actual author, so according to the "copyright" (or copyleft), he's free to take the information and place it wherever he likes. All the attribution would be doing in this case is indicating that he is the original author of the material found on another site, which sort of cancels out the need for attribution.  It's like, "Hey, I'm attributing this work to the original author, which happens to be myself."  So bottom line, I think you're free to bring your specific contributions over without attribution.  However, if you whole sale lift the current text from the codex pages, then you have to attribute since you are not the sole author of that work, and you must also attribute any other contributors.  So, that's where this all stands.   Pro  cyon  02:28, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The original text you wrote is perfectly fine to put here without any additional attribution. If you go back to the version you wrote, you can copy it here.  If you incorporate changes made by anyone else, you have to attribute them.  I'd say it'd just be easiest to copy paste the info and place a link to the source in the edit history, since our licenses are both CC-BY-SA. This way it avoids any ambiguity of sourcing in the future.  -- Prod (talk) 01:41, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

DW3 merchant
How is the merchant useful at end game? In your "different approach" party setup you transformed a thief into a merchant at the end... -- 16:54, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Ultimate 4 inverted triangle
The text inside the triangle has "DEX" and "INT" swapped and in the wrong places. -- 16:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Mega Man Zero names
AFAIK, they don't actually number the missions in-game, and doesn't really add anything to the ToC. If you want the walkthrough pages numbered, switch to an ordered list (#) instead of unordered (*). -- Prod (talk) 19:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Adding talk page sections
To add a new section at the end to a talk page, beside the "Edit" button at the top, there's a "+" sign. Clicking that will start a new section for you. -- Prod (talk) 01:18, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Mystic Ark
I have mapped this Game thoroughly with help from someone so you should check it out. Paco (talk) 08:49, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

wip
wip is one of our cleanup/maintenance tags. Wikipedia usually does their tags similarly to our stub with a big banner. Our maintenance tags were designed to be inconspicuous and appear in the sidebar under the toolbox on BlueCloud (our previous primary skin) and Monobook (which I use to edit). These tags do not appear in Dolphin (the new default skin). If you switch to Monobook, you'll notice it in the bottom left of the left hand column; it has text if you put your mouse over it. -- 17:22, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Also note: we rarely use wip because we consider all of the pages to be a work in progress, forever (who knows what re-releases and patches hold for gaming history). We remove wip tags if they have been there for more than a month. Most people who put a wip tag on a page eventually forget about the project and leave the tag by accident. -- 17:28, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, I'm tired of bothering you about semantics. Plus, I get it and I think most people do, too. Try not to create too much additional work for yourself. This project has enough in its scope already. -- 17:32, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Image categorisation
When uploading images, please make sure to categorise them using the correct image categories and the guide-specific category, i.e.  Category:Game Name images. Please see our image policy for more details. Thanks for helping to keep our images neat! — 17:35, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Q64 etymology
Since you've already created a subpage, you might as well keep the details of the names kept listed on that page, rather than in the walkthrough. -- 22:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Use of "video game"
The scope of this wiki only includes video games, so the word video on this wiki can be omitted in every case. -- 16:08, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy Armor tables
What are these sorted by? Not alphabetically, not by absorption... Order of appearance? -- 16:07, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

FF7 weapon "values"
Is "Value" a property assigned/labeled in game? Why not use "Price" and replace the 99999's with n/a? -- 16:23, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * They are not synonymous. "Value" is arbitrary and can be used out of the context of shopping (e.g. attack value), whereas price is what the vendor sells it for. You could specify "Gold value", but the found items have a value of zero. Since they don't have any price at all, their prices are not applicable to the table. If the column were price, the cell contents could alternately be "Free" or "Found". But really, if you're sorting by price, you're looking at which items to buy when, and how much you'll have to save up. The only information people want to know about the found items is how to get them. I see you made the change, cool. One other thing - why create an arbitrary designation for the "value"? n/a is accurate to its price, and doesn't construe the table's sorting ability. Even though they may be "zero" in terms of coming before the lowest value, the n/a cells are visually distinct and can be ignored by readers. -- 17:08, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * We tend to prefer a separate column for the sell value; it can be displayed as a pseudo column, with an explanation of the column above table, like so: "12/6", or we could take the brains out of it and just make the second column. We can do a col-span, but that will break the sorting ability of the table, which is nice, so I'd rather do "Price" and "Sell value". Give me a moment while I touch your sandbox. -- 17:22, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah that's fine. It saves more space that way. -- 17:36, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Why not use 0 instead of 2, and add another note? Listing it as "2" is false, since they don't have a price. -- 21:43, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha, sorry for any trouble I've caused. I like figuring out the best course of action. -- 23:10, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Mega Man Zero 2/Forms
Why not combine both listings into one table? -- 15:09, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

7th Saga Monster images
Can you send me all images? I will make it transparent, croping and finally throwing in PNGGauntlet and reupload it all. Paco (talk) 16:59, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * But not all pics are uploaded yet and i don't want to download each images as that take time, so its easier to just pack it all in a zipfile and upload it on mediafire or so and give me the downloadurl over "E-mail this User" or here whatever you like it better. If you like the color, then you can set it in the Table cell with Background color. Paco (talk) 18:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's probably easier to use an online host, like http://www.filefactory.com/ -- 19:10, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * mediafire was just a example, there are plenty other hosting site. Thanks for the hint with saving the page with the images on HDD (didn't thought of it o_0). If you want the exact color from the Background, then it's #505050. just neeeded to load one pic in Paint and choose the color and then check the RGB number and convert it to Hexadecimal number. Paco (talk) 20:37, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * reuploaded it all. What do you think? Oh also please don't upload pics in big case like XXX.PNG but in small case like xxx.png. Thanks. Paco (talk) 10:22, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

FFIII jobs
What do the trailing hyphens mean, here? -- 22:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I overlooked the comma. I've never seen a trailing hyphen used in this context. Usually it occurs when alphabetizing lists that include titles that start with "The". -- 16:20, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy IV/Call Magic
What does "Dropped by enemies" imply? Do enemies use that ability? Is it an item that can be acquired? -- 20:18, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to get the Items from those Monster by the same Name to summon it. To get the Bomb Summon, you need to fight Bombs until they drop a "Bomb Item" which let you learn Bomb Summon. Paco (talk) 21:13, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, I will add that item info, since it was missing. -- 16:10, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I did it already, as soon as you two wrote me here :-) --Abacos (talk) 16:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha, I didn't see your edit. Oh well, my additions aren't excessive. -- 16:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Final Fantasy/Armor
On Final Fantasy/Armor, the use of the NES name is confusing and ambiguous without an explanation. Is the NES version the only one that uses an alternate name to the titles you added for "Body armor", etc.? -- 19:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)


 * My apologies. I had assumed you had organized the page. I am referring to the difference between the item's name, and the "NES" name, even though the first version was the NES's, wasn't it? Getting the naming differences down is important to having a multi-console integrated guide. In regards to the party ratings, I believe they should be scrapped. All of the existing ratings were created by Koweja, with no apparent system. If you want to redo them with objective facts you can try, but I think it's too difficult and much too time consuming to test each party configuration for specifics like the relationship bewtween average damage per turn and average party level. -- 20:38, 3 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. I know naming differences is a big task, so if you could add a note at the top of the page regarding version differences, that would help clear up the ambiguity of the information, to a degree. -- 15:38, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Ultima 5
It will be easier to keep the discussion on this talk page rather than going back and forth between yours and mine. First of all, should the NES version have its own guide page? E.g. Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny (NES)? If the NES version requires its own walkthrough, due to significant differences, then it should be separate. Otherwise, the pages should be integrated into the existing walkthrough. To get it to stage three, all you have to do is finish the walkthrough in text form. Also, you should probably add keys/legends to a corner of each map unless all of the symbols are sprites from the game. Even so, it can be helpful. -- 15:34, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback. (1) Ok, I'll integrate the NES walkthrough in the main one, possibly just adding a "NES differences" section in the various pages. (2) All the maps I put in are made exclusively of screenshots, except for the red lines (sometimes yellow or green) that connect the stepladders. (3) I'll proceed to describe in text form how to navigate the dungeons. --Abacos (talk) 15:51, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Simple enough. If you're only playing the NES version, you could finish the walkthrough pages you were working on and continue with that trend, then go back and see if integration is possible. It is easier to move the pages to the (NES) guide than to integrate/chop up the content. I'm just worried that with all of the different ports we could end up with tons of little version-specific notes. -- 16:08, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

I checked, but the NES walkthrough, that is complete, is definitely different from the DOS one. As fas as I know, the NES version is the only one that is significantly different from the others, but it is known to be probably the worse port of any video game in the Ultima series. If a page by itself is made, I wonder how many people would visit it. Still, it would be easier and faster to make a separate guide, and I would have done two guides instead of one ;-) --Abacos (talk) 18:23, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright, let's separate them then. -- 22:50, 11 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I've been thinking about this, particularly because of Double Dragon, and I'm definitely in favor of separating the two. It can be hard to distinguish between ports that are relatively close to the original, but contain a few changes or additions (e.g. Dragon Warrior III and it's upgrades) vs. game that are so significantly different that they merit their own walkthrough (e.g. Salamander and Life Force).  In general, I would trust the author as an authority on the matter, and in this case, it seems fitting.  Out of curiosity, Abacos, do Ultima III and IV warrant the same treatment?  Pro  cyon  23:13, 11 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Done. Also, Abacos, we will want to incorporate a "version differences" section somewhere. [This page http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/NES-Port_of_Ultima_V] has a good (maybe comprehensive) view. The games that are the easiest to split have significantly different graphics. -- 23:19, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Notmyhandle, thanks for the splitting, I was planning to do it in the weekend (if my girlfriend would have given me time).

Procyon, I only played the NES versions of Ultima 3 and 4. From the existing walkthrough of Ultima 3 I can see that the dungeons (the most important part of a written walkthrough, I think) are identical in DOS and NES, only the names are different; therefore, one guide will do. I'm planning to play sooner or later the Sega MS port of Ultima 4, as it is known to be a faithful port of the DOS one, with just improved graphics and sound; I'll let you know. --Abacos (talk) 06:11, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Striking a balance
Hi Abacos. I moved your DW3 class triangle back down to the bottom of the page, but I wanted to explain why. It would be difficult for a new-comer to DW3 to understand your triangle before he or she is even introduced to the classes at all. A lot (most really) of your information is best suited for RPG experts, but you also have to consider that beginners need a good introduction to the material as well. That's why I was upset with your edits to Final Fantasy/Parties. You need to understand that a good guide writer caters to both the novice as well as the expert players. In fact, the novice players should be your first concern since they're the ones that need the help. Experts are just looking for "food for thought" as they say. Please keep this in mind as you continue to edit guides.

On the subject of editing, I notice that you make a lot of edits to armor and weapon pages. While I can definitely understand and sympathize with wanting to improve upon, or clarify, data presentation in tables, after a while you kind of have to go with one format and stick with it. Please do your best to settle upon one approach that you like best, apply it to a page, and then let it go for a while. Come back to it only if you learn something crucial through work that you do on other guides. Thanks.  Pro cyon  10:37, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

DW3 "bonus dungeon"
The new page is Dragon Warrior III/Sky World. Please migrate your changes there and mark the old page for deletion. Sorry for the edit conflict. -- 16:53, 14 September 2012 (UTC)