StrategyWiki:Staff lounge

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Welcome to all users! This page is where you can ask StrategyWiki-related questions to the staff and senior community figures, and they will do their best to answer. If you want to raise a topic for discussion (rather than just ask about it), please use the community issues forum instead. New issues are entered here, with the most recent at the bottom of the page. If your question does not pertain to editing StrategyWiki (e.g. asking for hints or game-specific information), please ask on the guide's talk page or on the forums.

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Non-section jumplink skin bug
What the section name says. Using the current skin (Dolphin), a normal section jumplink works properly (click the "First Job" section link from the Maple Story/Warrior/Skills page - the first thing you should see is the words "First Job" on the top-left article page). However, if you click a non-section jumplink like say the "Slash Blast" sprite image link, instead of seeing the accompanied sprite image with the words "Slash Blast", the first thing you will see is the words "Warrior Mastery" with a different image before the skill name. Adding insult into injury, before the words "Warrior Mastery" is a table named "Slash Blast level data" behind the fading part of the UI at the very top. I'm not sure if I mentioned this before when I encountered it some time ago; can someone please fix this? --RAP (talk) 04:21, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yea, it's a really hard bug to fix. Browsers don't seem to like the header at the top and won't properly scroll it slightly higher.  If someone can suggest a proper solution, I'd be glad to implement it. -- Prod (talk) 07:25, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * What makes other skins tick in jumplinking non-section parts of the article? Simply because there's no moving UI when scrolling up and down? What makes non-section jumplinks special from normal section jumplinks? You couldn't just add a custom width pixel size to make sure it is shown properly? It saddens me since the non-section jumplinks I implemented a few articles (with User:PirateIzzy basing this use off from my initial design for several MapleStory skills articles) are rendered useless. Would the soft fallback solution be to make the moving UI at the bottom of the screen in the page? --RAP (talk) 09:47, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree, RAP, this is an issue. Probably the only issue I have left with Dolphin. However, it has nothing to do with linking to an ID on a page. It has to do with the CSS that codes the page links and the stylized fade at the top of the content section (bottom right quadrant) of any page you are viewing. The faded white gradient is just below the links like 'Edit' and 'History', and these buttons are what is covering up the text you linked to. Your browser is going to the correct location, but Dolphin is basically putting an image over the top of what you want to see. I will play around with the code to see if I can come up with a solution. -- 06:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I found a solution. However, I cannot add it yet. This is what we could add code to the shared CSS: However, although it will fix the linked content correctly, it will add a 65px margin of whitespace at the top of every page. Although it doesn't break the skin, it is obviously a waste of whitespace. Prod, it looks like the page dynamically changes when we scroll down. E.g. while looking at the CSS, if I scroll one mouse-wheel down I see the logo disappear, and then one more scroll wheel down I see div#content-nav-container gain the 'fixed' class. Basically what we need is my code to be dynamically added once the readers scroll down to the same point where that fixed class gets added (or, preferably, one scroll further). I am unfamiliar with how this type of behavior is coded. I see some references online to jquery, I'm sure it could be done in Javascript or maybe PHP. I am searching through the publicly viewable code for hints, but haven't found it yet. -- 18:54, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Viruses
My antivirus (Avast) is going insane with the site at the moment. So far it's blocked these for apparently being malware (it doesn't want to give me any more details than that):
 * Every image on the site
 * Main.css (so the skin doesn't show up)

These are *probably* false positives (last I checked CSS files can't be executed without changing them to EXEs or whatever), but I thought it was better to mention them anyway.

I'll run a full virus scan on my computer anyway, in case there's something on my end, and report back if anything does show up. -- 09:40, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * All the images and skin related css is hosted from the wikimg domain, so it might be having an issue with that server. Maybe it doesn't like the fact that the IP address behind it changed? -- Prod (talk) 21:28, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * This is happening to me as well, so it's probably a server-side problem. Or maybe it's just Avast overreacting? T.testLP(talk) 10:00, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Still happening. Full scan found nothing. Trying to go directly to wikimg.net just results in the connection being blocked, so there's something about that server it doesn't like (not sure what though). -- 13:39, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Avast must have blacklisted them for some reason. Try opening a thread on their forum. They appreciate reports like these. -- 06:47, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, it was a false positive. Went to their support forums; they've unblocked it, and all is well again. -- 20:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for following up on this and getting it cleared up! -- Prod (talk) 05:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Partnerships with other Wikis - how to go about?
I think it would be beneficial to have a partnership with Wookieepedia, even though they are on Wikia. I was looking at this diff and thinking about how many Star Wars games there are, with so much minor lore. Should I say hi to an administrator and see if this is something they would like to do? And if so, what would we ask of them in return? Maybe it's fine to link to them without a partnership? I know we want to exclude external links as much as possible, but on the other hand I know we don't want this much data, like our setup with Bulbapedia. Maybe just set up a template for them without them linking back to us? Does Bulbapedia ever link to us? -- 00:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * With BP, each pokemon has a fair bit of detail and is fairly important to the game. I'm not sure how true that is for every character in the Star Wars universe.  I don't think it's that beneficial to have that kind of extensive linking within a page (irrespective of partnership).
 * I do think that a partnership with them may be good, possibly better than the one with Bulbapedia. There's a whole universe of Star Wars, completely outside the gaming world, which will never be within our scope.  Although they're wikia, they're still probably the best resource for this info.
 * I'd say go ahead and ask them if they'd be interested. Most of our partnerships involve the other site linking to our game pages from their pages about the game.  We can link back to them in a similar way, or perhaps with an "external links" section at the bottom of certain pages (for example a page about the various planets).  All depends on what would be most useful for the reader.
 * -- Prod (talk) 06:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

File uploads are disabled?
I've used Special:Upload in the past to upload screenshots, and I would like to add some more. But now there is a message "File uploads are disabled." The last successful upload I can find is dated Jan 7 2015. Are there plans to get this feature back up and running? A more detailed message on the uploads page would be helpful.
 * We had a harddrive failure recently, so before re-enabling uploads, We have to validate the files against our backups to make sure nothing got corrupted. We'll have them enabled again in the next few days. Sorry about the inconvenience. -- Prod (talk) 06:02, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Beyond my knowledge
I was working on this page:

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Warcraft_III:_Reign_of_Chaos/Night_Elf_strategies

and I noticed that there were a bunch of claims that are factually incorrect. For example, Archer + Hippogryph -> Hippogryph Rider is irreversible, Priests are a powerful defensive unit in any situation, Wardens do not exist until the expansion. However, I don't know enough about the game to evaluate the overall strategies and am unable to say whether they still work, or don't work at all. I made some notes for now, but am unable to proceed. Suggestions?VictorInThePacific (talk) 05:50, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * This is the nature of working on collaborative projects like a wiki. You have to make a decision on what you think is the best way to approach the problem.  Some things I do in this situation are:


 * 1) Play the game and try the suggestion to determine how factual it is and either ammend, remove, or improve upon it based on my findings,
 * 2) Contact the original author who wrote the strategy in the first place to get clarification.  Of course that's only useful if the author is still active and responding to comments,
 * 3) Conduct online research through Google or other video game information sites to see if you can find anything to backup or support the claims made on the page.
 * 4) Go to a forum that contains other experts on a game, reference the page in question, and ask them for their thoughts on the content.
 * As the current primary author of the guide, you are the resident WC3 expert, unless there are any other expert players on the site that we're not aware of. When you're uncertain whether to remove or update content on a page, the best fall-back plan is to raise the topic for discussion on the talk page, and simply wait to see if anyone responds.  The chances that they will are somewhat low, but it never hurts to try. Ultimately, if you are not knowledgeable on a subject, it is best to leave the content alone.   Pro  cyon  15:23, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Tally-ho!VictorInThePacific (talk) 03:25, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Can I get some help uploading images, please? I have tried to follow the instructions, and I have to say that the existing instructions are written for experts, but not for beginners. Anyway, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the instructions, and when I finally thought I had figured them out and attempted to upload an image, I got the following error message: Error creating thumbnail: Invalid thumbnail parameters Now, I am not sure whether the image did get uploaded or not. It really isn't clear, and the uploading instructions don't mention thumbnails. Also, how can I see whether my image got uploaded without scrolling through hundreds of pages and thousands of files? The image is a drawing I made (War3RoC Sylvanas-base.png). ThanksVictorInThePacific (talk) 04:15, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems you did it right, but the server is having some trouble with it. I'll have to look into it. It could be because the image is too large, so would it be possible to upload a smaller size (this one is 4000x4000)? -- Prod (talk) 04:42, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Please scale screenshots to something like ~1280x1024 - that is a typical War3 resolution and will be nice on the server. I recommend PNG files, and then upload them to tinypng.com, then re-download them and their file size will be smaller. And for the record I am a long-time Blizzard player (from the old SNES games, Warcraft 1-3 + TFT, WoW, Stacraft 1 & 2 + expansions, Diablo 1-3 + expansions). I've beaten the War3 campaign fully once, and I was working on the first part of the human campaign's guide here last time I picked it up. My favorite thing on war3 was the custom games, so I'm not pro at versus, but I understand the strategies enough to help you. -- 00:55, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's what I do.:

-- 00:55, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) First, I save the screenshot as a PNG. If it is too big, use a program like GIMP or Picassa to resize it.
 * 2) Upload it to tinypng to optimize it/lower the file size. Download the new file (if necessary, change the new file name to something like oldFileName_small.png)
 * 3) Go to http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Special:Upload
 * 4) Select Source: filename (the first circle button, it may already be selected).
 * 5) Click 'Choose File', in the pop-up find your file, then click Open. The upload page will now show the path/filename and maybe a thumbnail on the right.
 * 6) The destination filename should be something clear like 'War3RoC LevelName Map.png' (the name 'War3RoC Sylvanas-base.png' was fine, good job).
 * 7) In the summary, just put a link to the game, like Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, and say it is a screenshot, then put the two necessary categories: and  . If it is a map, it is probably not a screenshot and viceaversa (unless it is a screenshot of an in-game map). Like-wise, the diagrams and maps categories are supposed to be exclusive from one another, but it's no big deal - pick the one you like.
 * 8) Click "Ignore any warnings" checkbox.
 * 9) Click "Upload file"
 * 10) If you lose track of your edits, please review your list of contributions, here (you can find the link to your contributions at the top right of StrategyWiki, on any page, if you are logged in): http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/VictorInThePacific

Again, thanks for the information, although it will take me some time to process it. I will be continuing this discussion, but for now, just 2 points: VictorInThePacific (talk) 04:13, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I know nothing at all about pvp play beyond what I have read, and I will never have any personal experience at that. Accordingly, you probably know a lot more than me about it, so would you mind having a look at the pvp strategy sections. For one thing, it seems to me that all of them are based on things that did not exist before TFT, and so would be more appropriate to be placed there. Or not, because most W3 players today probably use the expansion. I expect that this is probably a low priority.
 * I feel that there would be some value in having beginner's instructions for images. What do you think?

Worked like a charm. Thanks again. Now, how do you you feel about modifying the image upload instructions to include a section that would allow a trained monkey such as myself to do it right the first time? I would be prepared to work on that. Also, would it be possible to change the process to tell the monkey after the attempted upload either or something like that? :) VictorInThePacific (talk) 04:04, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Amazing! You actually did it right. Beginner's luck!, or
 * Epic Fail! Can't you do anything right?
 * I'm not particularly in favor of altering the image upload text extensively at this time, as it seems to suffice for most people, and it's really just a question of doing it often enough until you become comfortable with the process. Expanding the text won't necessarily make uploading images easier, and could potentially confuse matters further.  The process itself is not overly complicated, we just have a lot of guidelines because we're a rather image-heavy wiki and we do our best to impose order on an otherwise chaotic issue.   Pro  cyon  02:33, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I am about to make extensive additions to this page: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Warcraft_III:_Reign_of_Chaos/Dissension However, even in its present form, I don't think it should be a stub. I think it needs an administrator to change that?VictorInThePacific (talk) 04:21, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If you feel it doesn't need the stub tag anymore, feel free to remove it. -- Prod (talk) 05:09, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting that you (plural) modify the instructions. Rather, I was thinking that I would do most of the work. I do feel that the instructions can be made a lot clearer for rank beginners. Of course, someone who has uploaded images a couple of times will not have any difficulty, but people who aren't familiar with the process might either do it wrong, which means you have to clean up after them, or they will just give up, in which case you would never know.

I claim that I can write something that you will think is better than the current version. This is one of my fields of expertise. I wouldn't make any changes to the website, but send you a pdf for consideration. If I did this, would you at least look at it, or would you reject it out of hand? VictorInThePacific (talk) 07:13, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * If the changes aren't too major, go ahead and update the page directly, no need to pdf anything. If you think there's a lot of changes needed, maybe make a page in your userspace and draft the new content.  You can then link people to the page for review. -- Prod (talk) 00:16, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with Prod. You can set up what you'd like to propose on a page like User:VictorInThePacific/Proposal, and let us know when you've finalized the design.   Pro  cyon  01:08, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * We have room for extensive instructions here: Guide/Images. I think it would be fine if we just put a small sentence saying, 'Need help uploading? Read here.' with a link. -- 22:03, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Help! I uploaded 9 images today, but I made a bunch of syntax errors. The files did get uploaded. I omitted the  codes for some of them, and I may or may not have fixed that. I seem to have omitted the War3RoC before each of the filenames. How do I fix that? Thanks. Sorry.VictorInThePacific (talk) 04:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * They were also miscategorized, which is now fixed. -- Prod (talk) 05:08, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

More mistakes when uploading images. I uploaded 12 images today. I made a typo in the main category. Instead of Warcraft, I used WarCraft. I repeated that 8x until I caught the error. How do I fix that? I also made a typo in the filename for File:War3RoC NE2map-a.png. It should be File:War3RoC NE2-map-a.png or File:War3RoC NE2-map-a2.png. This is a replacement for the old file, which contains a content error. I tried "moving" the file to the correct name, but was not permitted to do so. I also tried "uploading a new version", but was not permitted to do so. Incidentally, the "upload multiple files" page (http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard) is not working. Sorry for the trouble.--VictorInThePacific (talk) 04:02, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Go back to each image, click edit at the top to edit the description/categories. Fix the typo. -- 16:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Template Editing Help
I was thinking of converting some of the other Pokémon guide pages over to use Pokemon trainer, but that template does not support any games other than Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, FireRed, and LeafGreen. I tried to go and edit it, but the wikitext seems very complex and I don’t want to mess anything up. Does anyone have any ideas on how to accomplish this? Thanks! Wjk (talk) 21:06, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * State formally what you propose to change and we'll add it to the template. Which games would you like to add?  Don't say "all of them."  Specify which series you want to work on, and we'll add parameters for them one at a time.   Pro  cyon  02:33, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Wjk, the best thing to do is use Pokemon trainer as a base for a new template. You are welcome to do sand box testing in your personal space until you come up with a good name for the new template. E.g. you can copy the template code to User:Wjk/Pokemon template and mess with it there. You can try and think of your template as a base for other pokemon games, too. For example, I can help you make a generic template that acts as the base for the others. What you need to supply are the variables between games, or gens. This allows us to customize each template (the ones to be used on the pages) to work for the specific cases of each game group/gen. Trying to make one template for all Pokemon games sounds absurd. We have enough trouble (as in, it takes a lot of time and effort) trying to make templates fit all versions of the same game. -- 01:00, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Console categories - should they have Header Navs?
Ok, so this donned on me when I was looking at Category:Wii and Wii/Wii Channels. Yes, the second page is a sub-page of the category's redirect, so that in itself is an oddity. However, this is a scope related issue: -- 00:55, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) First, the oddity: should we move Wii/Wii Channels to :Category:Wii/Wii Channels so it is an actual sub-page?
 * 2) Should we add Header Nav, in some form, to consoles so that consoles can have their own table of contents to include sub-pages and offer additional 'guides' for the console?
 * 3) If we have 'guide' content for consoles, should we explicitly exclude information about hacks and mods? I am a fan of hacks and mods, although I have never done them myself. I have played on a modified console before, and am hoping to try out Project M's mod of Smash Bros. Brawl some day (albeit that type of info could be included in a page for Project M or as a sub-page for Brawl). This brings up a general question - if we include GameShark codes and the like, memory leaks, etc. how is this any different? I don't think it is. Organizing it is another issue.
 * It _should_ be on the main Wii page, but that would get ridiculously long. It's not a category, so putting it in the category namespace wouldn't make sense.  I think that's kinda the discussion we had when this page was originally made.  However, some of our series pages have subpages, so maybe we should revisit the concept
 * Consoles don't really need guides. The Header Nav should only be on Games, so I feel it should be even removed from the GUIDE.
 * I'd rather we get rid of all non-official content, including hacks, mods, GameShark codes, etc.
 * -- Prod (talk) 05:04, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Codes on-par with Gameshark are actually acceptable, per Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., with the statement that using them amounts to just skipping pages in a book or fast forwarding - and no different than entering a cheat code on a more modern game. Also, some manufacturer's embraced some of them (e.g. Sega, who requested that it shouldn't work with games with a save feature.) Hacks and mods for modern consoles are different, usually intended to disrupt a multiplayer game rather than actually helping you progress through the story. Of course, it's impossible to avoid all non-official content.  For example, Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth becomes unplayable at one point without a third-party patch, and the developers aren't around to fix that game breaking bug.  --Sigma 7 (talk) 04:06, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * For the codes, it's not about legality, but about usefulness/completeness. Most of those devices provide all the codes you need, so listing it here is pointless.  And once you learn how they work, there's essentially an unlimited number of codes possible. But perhaps this should be a thread on its own. -- Prod (talk) 05:29, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Character bar is missing from the edit screen
I'm using Whale, and I can't find the extra characters, like the arrows and degree symbol. Were they intentionally removed? Flufftailer (talk) 19:50, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, when we updated to MediaWiki 1.24, it seems that something broke with our CharInsert gadget. I've tried to get it working again, but it may be broken until we update to 1.25 (which is a few months away). You have to enable it from the gadgets section of your preferences. All the relevant scripts should be visible to anyone (Special:Gadgets links to the relevant scripts) if someone has an idea why it isn't working. -- Prod (talk) 00:27, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Malicious advert on site
For the past week or so, the site has been completely disabling my browser (and operating system, which forces me to turn my computer off and back on again); at first I had no idea why it was doing this, but when I saw "Waiting for cm.g.doubleclick.net ..." in the status bar when the system locked yesterday, I realized that one of its advert hosts must have become compromised around last week. As with the case of "vip_117[1].swf" a few months ago (but the Norton Antivirus protected me from that), I do not know what the advert in question is for as the system always locks before it actually loads - but it has become seriously annoying, especially when about to save a page (as I cannot always back up what I write in Notepad)! If anyone else has been suffering this problem, it is not the site itself that is compromised; it is the advert provider " cm.g.doubleclick.net ". Namcorules (talk) 17:00, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Changing File Name
Quick question, how does one change a file name / request a file name get changed? I saw it at some point if you try to upload a similar image, but I can't find it and I don't think trying to upload the same image again to find the link is the best idea. It's incredibly minor, but if there's a way to fix it, I'd like to. Thanks! Shadow0144 (talk) 14:11, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * When you view the page for an image, there is a "Move" button at the top of the page. You should have permission to click it, and rename the image by moving it to the name that you would like it to have.  If there is a checkbox about leaving a redirect behind, please uncheck it, as we don't redirect image names.   Pro  cyon  14:26, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I'm not seeing a Move button anywhere.

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/File:#file, right? Shadow0144 (talk) 14:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It's at the top of the page, alongside "edit", "history", "watch", and such. -- 14:59, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't believe I have the required permission because the only buttons I see are File, Discussion,  View, Edit, History, and Unwatch. Shadow0144 (talk) 15:39, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, it seems you need to be autoconfirmed to be able to move pages. That happens automatically when you've made enough edits, and been a member for long enough (I think it's a week). -- 15:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see. I'll just wait for it to pop up then. It's a very minor thing anyway. Thanks! Shadow0144 (talk) 15:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Wii U\3DS\Wii virtual console and Nintendo eshop question
I have a quick question on Wii U\3DS\Wii virtual console games, they are playable on Wii U\3DS\Wii. I just think this is more organized and during a Nintendo Direct Nintendo even stated that original games will be playable on the Wii\3DS\Wii U console's no virtual console has been realased. And shouldn't Nintendo eShop be used on the newer games etc Hyrule Warriors \Mario Kart 8 and Wii U\3DS Virtual Console be used on virtual titles Etc Ice Climbers\Super Mario Bros.. This seems a lot more organized than before all these edits. I just wanted to see if I'm the only one or not that thinks before I start fixing Wii U\3DS games. -- RodKimble (talk) 17:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * There isn't a catch-all here, and you have to be specific. Are you talking about distributors, release dates, or systems here (since we are referring to the infobox).
 * Distributors: all Wii games (Wii Ware and Wii VC) are purchased through the Wii Shop Channel. There is no other name for the distribution service so I chose that top-level, umbrella term. For the Nintendo DS and Wii U, all of their digital downloads come from the Nintendo eShop, so we list that.
 * Release dates: release dates are straight forward: was it a virtual console game (if so, put Wii U VC), or an actual release (digital or physical, then put Wii U)?
 * Systems: also straight forward. The system should match the release date system. If the game was released on virtual console, the system should also list the virtual console. This avoids having to categorize the page under the actual system's category. We want this so that the virtual console category and the physical category have two separate lists of games. -- 18:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The only improvement I can think of right now is to maybe make a category for Wii Shop Channel games, since we consider it a distributor. In case anyone is wondering why 'Wii Shop Channel' for the name, that is the actual name of the software/app you click on in the Wii to get to the shop where you buy/download games. These games have several categories; the big ones are Virtual Console (for retro games), and WiiWare (specifically made for the Wii). We can't use the Wii category, nor the Wii Virtual Console category because their scopes are different than this distributor. We could call it something odd like 'Nintendo's Wii distribution service' but I would like to stick with something official, and 'Wii Shop Channel' is unique. -- 18:21, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Note that Wikipedia doesn't have a perfect system yet, either. They have wp:Category:Virtual Console games and wp:Category:Virtual Console games for Wii U, but no Wii-specific category or 3DS-specific category like we have. So I think we are doing better than them so far. -- 18:29, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Issue: I see some problems with Category:PlayStation Network. It's assumed that all four consoles (PS3, PS4, PSP, and Vita) can play any game listed in the PlayStation Network category, but we may want a distributor category for each console. E.g. Category:PlayStation Network (PS3) (this naming scheme may not be want we want, but the example should be clear). The reason this is an issue: each console may at some point stop being supported. The list of available games, then, may be different. We will have to wait until someone finds an example where a game is not supported on all four. -- 18:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Wow, thought flood NMH. I'm not sure how to handle the distribution aspect, it's clearly a confusing topic, and I don't think it's particularly useful to our readers.  Presumably more players are inspecting a page for a game they already own, and thus are not concerned with how to find it.  I'm less concerned about people using our site as a database for distribution channels.  But as far as categorization is concerned, this is a very straightforward technical distinction: Virtual Console games should be categorized under a system's Virtual Console category, not under the parent system category.  This is an important distinction because Virtual Console games are emulated on a system, and not programmed for that system.  These games were not rewritten from the ground up to take advantage of the system's specs and abilities.  There is no Wii or Wii U version of, say, Kid Icarus.  There is a Virtual Console entity emulating the NES version that you can play on the Wii or Wii U.  Therefore, it is not a Wii or Wii U title.  I'm not sure how to make it any clearer.   Pro  cyon  19:55, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's another way to think about it. If something is in the  category, then why does it need to be in the  category?  It's redundant.  There's absolutely no need for a game to be in both categories.  Anyone can observe that a title in the Wii U VC category is available for play on the Wii U without the need for that same title to appear in the Wii U category.  What's the point of listing it twice and confusing the issue?  Pro  cyon  20:53, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The Wii Virtual console is perfect nothing wrong with that one. I'm going to look into the 3DS/Wii U a little more but if you look at the Ice Climbers NES console version compared to the Wii/3DS/Wii U Console's the play exactly the same have the same story line except the controls. Its not very confusing if you list them on both categories and talk about there re-realase on that console. Look at Donkey Kong Country 1-3 about SNES and GBA versions there there both on there and GBA didn't have a virtual console.


 * The case of DKC (and similar re-releases like the Super Mario Advance series) is different, as the games were remade from the ground up for the GBA; in the case of Virtual Console games such as Ice Climber, they play and look the same because they're simply ROMs of the original games, bundled in a self-contained emulator. There are no changes to the original games, except a rare few instances of bug fixes. That's the difference that we're trying to explain to you. I agree with Procyon that including both categories would be redundant. -- 22:02, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * From what Rod is saying it sounds like ("the play exactly the same... except the controls") he is trying to categorize the game based on what controllers it is played with. 3DS virtual console games can only be played with the 3DS controller so no brainer there. The Wii and Wii U have different controllers, but to us, it's all played on the same system. Rod, if there is a specific peripheral controller that you think is worthy of its own category, like Category:NES Zapper, then please let us know and we can think about making a new category for game that use that peripheral equipment. -- 23:34, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm going to try to expand on the technical differences on RK's page. I think policy wise, the admins agree.   Pro  cyon  23:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah I'm with you - separate categories for non-redundant lists (which makes the categories usable as game lists, particularly for Guide completion). -- 01:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

What's the policy for games like Kirby's Adventure? It was released on virtual console and as part of Kirby's Dream Collection: Special Edition. In the second case it (or some of its compatriots) had extra content added, so it does not appear to be emulated. Should this type of game get categorized under Wii VC and Wii? Or should it let the Compilation take care of that category? -Flufftailer (talk) 13:48, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The compilation should always be a separate release and take care of its own categories. -- Prod (talk) 17:33, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying if everyone on this staff lounge is willing to let Procyon ban me from this website it's not looking good for everyone on here as a staff on this wiki and a bunch of NES and SNES have a Game Boy Advance on them as well like Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, Ice Climber, Breath of Fire II and Super Mario Bros. so what are we going to do about this big change that's happening. -- RodKimble (talk) 17:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

What's with Procyon saying he's going to banned me from this website I wasn't 100% sure about the change what should and shouldn't be on the Wii U Category, I'm still going to put virtual console games on the Wii U/3DS/Wii categories we need a vote on this if that's the case but I think virtual console games should go under the Wii U/3DS/Wii Categories. -- RodKimble (talk) 21:14, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Games should be categorized under the most specific applicable category. If it's running on the virtual console on the Wii U, it should be in the Wii U Virtual Console category only. It's a subcategory of Wii U anyway, so people can find the games.  -- Prod (talk) 21:41, 12 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Than It's also running on the Wii U console as well how else are the controls difference on the Wii U compared to the original console and my family is agreeing with me they should be on the Wii U category as well as the Wii U VC category. -- RodKimble (talk) 01:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * RK, I've tried numerous times to explain the difference to you between a native game for a system and emulated games. It appears as though no matter how many attempts I make, you fail to understand the admittedly subtle differences between them.  When it comes to video games and the distinctions between them, I trust the staff of this site.  They do understand the differences as I have outlined them to you, and they agree that it is sufficient to put Virtual Console games in the Virtual Console categories and nothing else.  I don't know how else to explain it to you, perhaps someone else can do a better job helping you understand, but I've tried every way I can think of.  Perhaps you can have a member of your family read the explanation that I provided on your talk page, and they can help you understand?   Pro  cyon  02:02, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Why can't it be like Donkey Kong Country 1-3 they've been rereleased on the Wii/3DS and Wii U console's that would make more sense. -- RodKimble (talk) 04:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I've noticed a bunch of games from the NES and SNES have also and Game Boy Advance like Donkey Kong Country, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Breath of Fire II, Kid Icarus, Ice Climber, The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario World, Super Mario Bros., Zelda II: The Adventure of Link and Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy Kong's Quest. Looks like we have to get rid of the Game Boy Advance off of those pages as well so why can't some virtual console games be on two pages again like the NES, SNES and Game Boy Advance
 * All of those games are correctly categorized for the Game Boy Advance. All of the DKC games are categorized correctly as well.  Please do not change them.  Pro  cyon  13:42, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't check all of them, but DKC, Link to the Past, and BoF 3 were all SNES games that had a new release created for GBA, it wasn't emulated at all. There was a cartridge with updated code created specially for the GBA so that it played natively.  This is different from the VC stuff, since they just all run on a software emulator within the Wii U. In other words, they're properly categorized. -- Prod (talk) 14:50, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying if everyone on this staff lounge is willing to let Procyon ban me from this website it's not looking good for everyone on here as a staff on this wiki and a bunch of NES and SNES have a Game Boy Advance on them as well like Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, Ice Climber, Breath of Fire II and Super Mario Bros. so what are we going to do about this big change that's happening. -- RodKimble (talk) 17:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The categories on all of those games are correct. Please do not change them.  This matter has taken up enough of everyone's time.  I'm sorry if you don't like it, but our position is not going to change.  Find something else to work on.   Pro  cyon  18:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Well everyone should change there mind because if there's two games on the same categories like you said it's confusing about two of the same games on two categories they should be on one and if I get banned for putting Wii U VC titles on the Wii U Category than its going to look bad for a member like you Procyon and if you do ban me I'm going to try and try until this website is shut down if that's how your going to act. -- RodKimble (talk) 18:21, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't take threats lightly. Cool off and come back tomorrow. -- Prod (talk) 19:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to let NotMyHandle so you don't get in trouble I talked to the creater of this website and he told me to put whatever I wanted belongs on the Wii U/3DS/Wii categories and he wants Super Mario Bros. 2 a featured article since someone took it off the list. -- RodKimble (talk) 19:35, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Haven't contributed in years - I forget how
Hello all,

I was wanting to start writing the walkthrough for World in Conflict. It appears there is no Walkthrough page set up yet.

Can someone help get it going? Once I see the code for the first few Chapters, hopefully I can become a bit more independent again.

Here is a basic outline that I hope to fill in for the first three chapters, with subheadings underneath.

Also, it appears I need to insert "hard returns." Can someone tell me how to do that real quick?

Thanks in advance,

Mission 1: Invasion!

Rescue the Infantry Secure the Supply Depot Recon the Route to the Kingdome Clear the Route to the Kingdome Clear the LZ at the Kingdome Set up a Perimeter at the Kingdome Evacuate Remaining Guardsmen Clear the Underpass

Mission 2: Reunion

Dig in at the Freeway Entrance Rescue the Civilian Evacuees Save the Levinson Family Hold the Bridgehead Defend the Southeast Bridgehead Evacuate the Hospital Assist Bannon and Charlie Company

Mission 3: Battle for Pine Valley

Secure the Gas Station/Eliminate the Soviet Sniper Clear the Way into Pine Valley/Clear the Strongholds ASAP Secure the TV Station/Eliminate the Soviet Forward Observer Defend the Supermarket/Help Captain Bannon With Repairs Retake the Southeastern Approach Hold the Southeastern Approach/Destroy the Enemy Mortars Defend the Town Square/Aid the Artillery Break the Soviet Offensive


 * A quick glance - you probably want to use headers, which allows identifying which part of the page or objective you're looking at. It's done by using the  == Header ==  markup.  For things like hard returns, it's usually better to split paragraphs instead by having a blank line between them.  StrategyWiki-specific help can be found on Guide, and the wikimarkup is basically the same as Wikipedia. --Sigma 7 (talk) 02:36, 5 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Good to see you back, Karl. I'm sorry we had a conflict of interest in the past. I am glad to see you wanting to add more here now. Please sign your edits on talk pages by putting in four tildes like: ~ (when you save the page, it will be converted into your name and a timestamp, like at the end of this message after the two dashes by my name). -- 16:42, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Wii download games on Wii U
I noticed among some recent edits games like Punch-Out!! (Wii), which are Wii games re-released for download on Wii U, but they're identical to the originals with the exception of being able to be controlled by the Gamepad. Currently we have these categorised as Wii and Wii U games, which would seem to go against what we do with Virtual Console games (these aren't labelled as VC games, but otherwise it's the same idea). Should we put these in another category ("Wii download version (Wii U)" seems to be the official title, as an example), or keep them in Wii U? -- 00:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It's an unfortunate situation, and I don't know that I have the absolute right solution to this. Prod had a similar question as you.  My thinking was, first and foremost, like you pointed out, these are not VC games.  Secondly, the Wii U is hardware backward compatible with the Wii.  With those two thoughts in mind, if a game such as Wii Punch-Out!! is being offered for download on the Wii U through the Nintendo e-shop, then maybe they should be labelled as Wii U also since you can only play those games which are downloaded in that manner through the Wii U.  It's a flimsy argument though.  The problem is that there is no parallel category to the Wii U VC for those titles, and it seems silly to make another category like the one you suggested... then we're really splitting hairs.  You can start to make arguments like about about the Sega Genesis games offered through Steam... it gets messy quickly.  Categorizing only those downloadable Wii games as Wii U titles seemed to be a compromise, but I don't love it.  What does everyone else think?   Pro  cyon  01:57, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Can regular Wii disks be played through the Wii U? If so there's no distinction required.  Being available for download is just a distribution channel, not a system it runs on, so it doesn't need the Wii U categorization. -- Prod (talk) 01:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I thought the same thing. Wii disks are playable on Wii U so as long as that's understood, there's no need to label Wii games as Wii U as well. Still, if something is released as a downloadable title, maybe it'd be good to be specific and label it as an eShop title, with the release date given for its re-release. Ramza66 (talk) 01:17, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm good with making the policy that downloadable Wii games do not get the Wii U category. However, given the history of the site over the past week or so, it's clear that this distinction may... confuse some people.  Hopefully they will be in the minority.   Pro  cyon  01:55, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I just was writing about this on my talk page to Procyon. I now think that we should put them all in the same console category. It boils down to this: why can't Punch-Out!! (Wii) be in both the Wii category and the Wii U category? It can be played on both consoles legitimately. Isn't that is what the console category is for (games that are played on that console)? Here's the one thing I agree with: if the game has a (e.g. Wii) disc that is backwards compatible (e.g. with Wii U), then we do not categorize in Wii U. But if the game can be purchased/downloaded to the other console (e.g. Wii U) through a legitimate (e.g. Nintendo eShop) distribution channel, then that game is now part of that newer console, too. It's the same way MS-DOS games get ported to Steam and Origin, but then we add the Windows category because the game only runs on Windows using a particular distribution service.


 * The complexity of this issue has been because we are arguing over how to categorize based on the release media - e.g. printed format in a traditional DVD box versus digital download versus digital download w/ a marketing label on it (e.g. virtual console versus 3D Classics versus wiiware, etc.). I do not mind having sub-categories for these lists of grouped/marketed games. But now I do not think that they should have system categories. E.g. Wii Virtual Console and Wii U Virtual Console are great lists of games, but are they really _systems_? Does it matter that it is an emulator or sub-process of a console's operating system? I don't think so. It's not novel. Console hacking has proven that. It's not separate from the hardware, which is what we group systems by. -- 23:14, 22 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: here is a use case for us all: TwinBee has re-releases on Wii VC, Wii U VC, 3D Classics (downloaded to 3DS via Nintendo eShop but no considered a 3DS VC game), and XBLA. In addition, it has TWO Wii U VC releases - you can download the NES version or the MSX version on the Wii U via eShop. I found a way to put console names as sub-headers under sys. Check it out. -- 00:30, 23 April 2015 (UTC)