Talk:Fuuun Shourin Ken

Title Kanji transliteration breakdown/analysis

To remain objective on the naming here, it is best to examine all of the parts of this title. 風雲少林拳 was named with Japanese Kanji, since it was released in Japan. Since it is a multi-kanji word (jukugo), we use an on'yomi reading where available. The easiest reason why is that if read with kun'yomi, the transliteration of this string of characters would end in kobushi, not ken (the whole thing would be different, but that is a simple comparison), and kun'yomi readings are primarily used for Japanese created kanji.

Here are the characters translated into their respective on'yomi readings (hiragana), and then the English transliteration from the hiragana:

• 風: ふう or ふ: fuu or fu (both are correct)
• 雲: うん: un
• 少: しょう: shou
• 林: りん (both the Goon and Kan'on readings are the same): rin
• 拳: けん or げん: ken or gen (both are correct)

So the base transliteration is: fuu/fu un shou rin ken/gen

Technically, each of these characters could be separated into independent meanings like above, but we know that combinations of these characters form new words.

Meanings:

• 風雲: as far as I can tell from translation services, means elements, situation, circumstances, position, condition, or state of affairs (raw translation is something like "wind moving clouds"; weather - note the lightning bolts on the cover art)
• 少林: means Shaolin.
• 拳: means fist. Combined with Shaolin, 少林拳 means literally Shaolin fist. It roughly translates to Shaolin Boxing, or more accurately as Shaolin Kung-fu, however the literal translation of Shaolin fist makes sense in English, too, so leaving it that way is just fine. Kung-fu refers to Chinese martial arts, and Shaolin is Chinese, so it makes sense that the meaning is referring to Kung-fu. However, it does not say kung-fu. It would mention gongfu or wushu if that were the case. Even though "少林拳" makes sense together, English grammar-wise it is equal to putting a space: 少林 拳. In Chinese and Japanese they do not use spaces.

I think the best translation then is to separate it into three words like anonymous suggested: Fuun Shourin Ken (Circumstances of Shaolin Fist; perhaps "Origin of Shaolin Fist" would make more sense, as I think it is referring to a point in time near the beginning, indicated by the temples in the background and the traditional garb on the cover art and in gameplay). I prefer the three mora Fuun over the four mora Fuuun simply because they are the same word, but shortened. The extra mora is unnecessary and three "u"s next to each other is difficult to read. Fuun may also be the Goon reading, which would be the first way it was spelled. Without speaking to someone on the development team, there is no way to tell what is correct.

Now, since Fuun Shourin Ken is the correct transliterated English title, we can say that before anonymous, the title was incorrectly "Fuuun Shourinken". However, I am going to make the title Fuun Shourin Ken instead of Fuuun Shaolin Ken for one big reason: StrategyWiki does not use half-translated names like Fuun Shaolin Ken, or more accurately Fuun Shaolin Fist, unless the official title has both English and non-English characters. We do, however, translate names like Luigi since their English names are marketed and well known. Neither of these cases apply in this case. Redirects for all of these incorrect, or correct (Fuuun), variants, will be created.

Note: if future data reveals that Fuuun is the Goon reading, there is no need to switch, as Fuun will still be valid as a (most likely) Kan-on reading.

--Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:43, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Note, the above analysis is disbarred by the presence of the furigana on the cover art above the title, which shows "ふううん しょうりん けん" or Fuuun Shourin Ken. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:56, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

wow, this is REALLY detailed, thank you. yes, i think i was wrong in my little damnation of 'shourin' here... mostly because of things like 'fengshui' to 'fuusui', cough cough chaos seed etc. i guess all we can really do is use japanese pronunciation for a japanese work unless something else is actually specified, like with shaolin's road.

...i will never ever ever accept ふ for 風 and i hope to god i never encounter it... so far, i haven't. 'fuuun' is no harder to read than 'fuun' to begin with; you still have to teach people how to do both, and it's likely that their first instinct for either is to take the english word 'fun' and draw out its u sound. eugh.

i feel that the translation is unnecessary... what does it really have to do with the title, how does it really help the lede, why does anyone need to know what the title may mean? i think it would be best to have either an small etymology section or put a note about it. i also feel that the hiragana is unnecessary unless you can get some kind of furigana support going. this is very likely a strategy wiki standards thing... where would i go to discuss this stuff? 75.177.117.137 03:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

oh... 'shaolin' is no translation, but simply a reading of 少林 just like 'shourin'. forget what supposed 'english speakers' do, because 1. "shaolin" is simply a term made common because it's used as a name/title and 2. no speaker of any language really has the right to make up and force standards for another language, especially not one who otherwise knows nothing about that other language (read: everyone who perpetuated the term 'shaolin').

aside from this, i targeted 'shaolin' because i've noticed that it's common to, when using roman characters to write out a kanji phrase, and when that kanji is meant to be hanzi (that is, when it's a term with strong chinese ties like 少林 here), the established hanzi romanization is used. see also: 'mahjong'. 75.177.117.137 03:45, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Alright, I'm putting an end to this now. First of all, register an account already, it's a PITA talking to an anonymous IP address. Second of all, StrategyWiki is not a consortium to discuss the pitfalls of Japanese-to-English translations and common misinterpretations. There are only two things that matter here: the most accurate name by which people can find information about a game, and more importantly: information about the game. You are way more concerned about stuff like transliterating Shaolin and Mahjong than the scope of this site and I don't want it creating more headaches for the admins. The entire nihongo template isn't a StrategyWiki thing, it's a Wikipedia thing. They set the convention, we follow it. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Wikipedia. So please, if you have anything constructive to add to this page concerning actual game play, by all means contribute. If not, leave the stupid translation stuff alone. Procyon 04:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

1) We are not consistent here. We have arbitrary rules that break standards.

2) The Japanese forms presented here are for Japanese enthusiasts, not English speakers. We do not care what the lay person pronounces romaji as.

3) We omit italics on names of texts for the most part. The exception is references to books, since we cannot interwiki link them here (we can link them to Wikipedia pages, if they are notable, which we should do instead of italicizing). There isn't much reasoning. Mostly to differentiate ourselves from Wikipedia. This is what we have been doing since we started. It reduces the amount of work you need to do; number of characters on a given page. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 05:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)