Talk:Gauntlet (NES)/World 1

Hi, I just added a map for Room 01. I have maps for up to Room 30 done. Let me know if I should add them all, and also how to center the map on the screen instead of having it all the way to the Right. Thanks, Snesmaster 19:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

File:GauntletRoom001Map.png

Gauntlet- Room 01

It's best to use a thumbnail, like this: [[Image:GauntletRoom001Map.png|thumg|right|Gauntlet- Room 01]], which produces the image on the right. These maps in question will take up a lot of vertical space if left at full size, and using thumbnails allows faster loading of the page and easier browsing through the text. It's also recommended to put the image tag near the top of the section.

If you want an example to model after, take a look at Alfred Chicken/Walkthrough. The maps are off to the side, and can be expanded or viewed as necessary. --Sigma 7 20:06, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I put it in a 300px high scrolling map, to see how everyone feels about that. On my resolution there's no horizontal scrollbar, so I just scroll up and down a bit to see the full image. - najzere^T 20:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright info

I know this has been brought up before, but are the links and copyright information on the images themselves entirely necessary? The images are already attributed to you in the edit history when you upload them, and you can put all the links and explanation you need in there. Another consideration is that with any information in image format, it becomes very difficult for users to make any changes that become may necessary. To be honest, I'd rather not have the image at all than see copyright information on it. It's a striking difference from all the other images on the site which don't contain signatures, copyright info, watermarks, etc. - najzere^T 20:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

It took several months to make all the maps I made for Gauntlet. So I don't want to give up the copyright and have someone be able to take the images and post them elsewhere claiming them as their own creations. I would be willing to reduce the information on the map, so it just says "Copyright 2008 nesmaps.com" and remove all the other information I have on them. Will that work? Snesmaster 22:01, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

This whole site is geared towards an open source environment, and it really sounds like it doesn't quite fit with the type of contributions you'd like to make. Procyon has uploaded about a third of the images on this site, many of which are not simple screenshots, but have been enhanced either graphically or with information, much like your images. However, he hasn't put a single copyright on any of them. I don't bring this up to say what he's doing is better than what you're doing, but to highlight the different perspectives on licensing you two have. For the contributors on any wiki, the attribution in the edit history must be enough for them for the whole concept to work. Your license isn't worse than ours, it just doesn't quite fit is all. I know it's hard to relinquish the rights to something you work hard on, as I've had to do that myself. But that's just the way wikis and GFDL licenses work.

About your specific question, it seems we don't have a stated policy (that I can find) on keeping copyrights on the image face, but I did find a couple places that can give you an idea of our guidelines. In the introduction on the images page in the Guide, it states:

"Do not, under any circumstances, use images with watermarks on them. Additionally, images copyrighted by others should not be used here. All images must be original or licensed under the GFDL 1.2 to avoid conflicts of intellectual property."

And on the usage policy page it says:

"Once you have made a contribution, you have given up your claim to copyright such data. Under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL), anyone is allowed to edit the information so long as any remaining works created by you are cited as such."

The issue basically comes down to control. You will always have credit for your work - the edit history ensures that - but how much control of your contributions are you comfortable giving away? You just need to decide whether having links to your site on the image info page and in the edit histories is enough for you. If it's not, then no big deal, we just don't have compatible licenses. You're always free to contribute whatever you're okay with, such as images that didn't take you so long or that aren't as marketable. - najzere^T 22:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Snesmaster, the maps you made for Gyromite didn't contain any copyright info, other than the information that you left in the image descriptions, which are still present, and always should be. The bottom line is, if I can find maps of equal, or even lesser quality than yours, that do not contain copyright bylines, then I will replace your maps with the "inferior" ones simply because it's unfair that you should get such "in your face" credit for a contribution, when other users do not, nor do they ask for it. I have to agree with Najzere on this one, as I have felt the way he does for a considerable amount of time. What you are asking for is far greater than what most users insist upon. For many, the history is all the credit required, and we're asking the same of you that we ask all the other users. You can't be given preferential treatment. Procyon 22:46, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

While attribution information can and should be placed on image description pages, nothing of the sort should be visible on the image itself. Because they are derivative works your copyright over the maps is extremely limited, extending "only to the material contributed ... as distinguished from the preexisting material"[1]; additionally, by contributing to StrategyWiki you implicitly license your creations under the terms of the GFDL, which means the copyright is no longer solely yours. For reference, see Gyromite; you have added your maps to this guide, but attribution info is solely found on the image description pages where it belongs; that is how all maps should be presented on this site. While I can certainly understand the time you took to do these and other maps, StrategyWiki does not give contributors credit in a manner that is immediately visible to readers. Garrett^Talk 22:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

My main concern is someone else taking the maps I created and place on this site and having the freedom to take them and use them other places without giving credit or even worse, using them to make money. I'm sorry I'm not willing to give up those rights for most of the maps I have created. So this brings us back to the question. Should I just have a link for people who want to view the maps, and if so where is the best place to place that link. Thank you all for your input, I'm sorry I'm not able to give up the rights for most of my work. I have no problem sharing it, I just don't want anyone to be able to claim it as there own work and use it elsewhere. Snesmaster 00:33, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

One thing I thought of as well, is just doing a map of the level in the starting state with no labels. Those are very quick and easy for me to make (In fact I could get them all done and uploaded today for all 100 levels) and I would not mind posting those up with no copyright info on the graphic. Let me know if you think that kind of map would be useful for this site. Snesmaster 13:52, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I just uploaded the maps for the first two rooms and placed them on the page. I think the thumbnail view looks better then the scrolling view. Plus the thumbnail shows an overview of the level that the user can see all at once, then they can click if they need more details. Let me know if I should upload the rest of the levels and place them using this format. Snesmaster 14:28, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I think they good like that, even without being marked up. That's how the majority of the screenshots we use are presented. Also, thumbnailing is probably the most popular way to display them in guides. How you have it now is pretty much our standard layout. One question though: are the images cut off on the right-hand side, or is that the edge of the level? There are walls on the other three sides, so I was just wondering. Thanks for finding a happy medium to continue being a valued contributor! :) - najzere^T 15:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

The wall is not cut off technically. The game designers saved on space by having the wall loop from the Left side. The the wall in the Right side is the wall on the Left side. When playing the game it scrolls just enough so you can see the wall from the Left on the Right. However if someone wants to past the wall from the Left and add it to the Right I would not object, however I don't think it is necessary since it adds nothing to the layout of the level. I will go ahead and add all the levels to this page. Should I leave that note about people adding content, or should I remove that? Snesmaster 16:49, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what note you're talking about. By the way, when uploading the next 70 pics (yay!) can you put the guide-specific category on them as well as the maps category? It'll save us some time. Example diff. Thanks! - najzere^T 17:10, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I will go ahead and add that category to all the future Gauntlet images I upload. The note says, "This section is a stub. Help us expand it, and you get a cookie." Should that be left there or should I delete those once I add the maps? Snesmaster 18:37, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Those don't have anything to do with images, they're just there to denote that the section isn't adequately explained. If there is no explanatory text in the section, you're safe leaving it as is. Since you've no doubt played the game, just use your best judgement on the sections that already contain some information. - najzere^T 18:46, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I haven't read through this whole section, but I think the image guidelines page needs work, as well as the way the copyright information is displayed. In short, everything we have is used under Fair Use, unless otherwise specified with {{GFDL}}. The no-watermarks rule is so that people don't start putting up pictures from other people's sites. I'll post again once I've caught up with everything. -- Prod (Talk) 00:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Duplicate Images?

Some of the levels have duplicate images even though they are different levels. Some of the treasure rooms as well as Level 69 being the same as 95. I was keeping multiple images encase someone wanted to add information in for level 69 that may be different then 95? Is that a bad idea? Should I just use the image from level from 69 and say it is a level 95 image in the caption? Snesmaster 19:42, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Any information someone wants to add in should be in the accompanying text, not in the image, so it's safe to use the same one for both. I didn't realize you were aware that they were the same; I thought you were just going through the levels and uploading them. Since it seems you do know, this can save you some time in the future! Great work on getting these images up so quickly, the guide's going to look great if someone ever writes it. :P - najzere^T 19:46, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

lol, I will get it eventually if someone doesn't complete it first, since I'm working on nearly every game in chronological order... Procyon 23:23, 23 April 2009 (UTC)