Editing Talk:Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney

{{todo|game}}
==New guide cleanup==
Here is the latest, and hopefully final cleanup discussion. I have one page left to add images to, then I will be nominating the guide.

===Current style===
*Capitalized: items from the Court Record, Court Record, location names
*Bolded: talk options, camera movements, object rotations
*Bulleted: talk options, camera movements, object rotations, additional testimony sentences
*Indented: additional testimony sentences
*Quoted exactly from game: testimonies, testimony names, talk options, location names, item names
*Pictures: people and places on their own page, items throughout the walkthrough when added to Court Record
*Headings: All <nowiki>==level two==</nowiki>
*Page names: Day <''day number''> - <''mode''> (i.e. Day 1 - Trial)

===Remaining issues===
#Should item images be shown when updated as well as when they're first received? So far there are two items that got images when they were updated, because the actual image had changed.
#Now that all the headings are at level two, bolding may not make the page look so cluttered, although there is still plenty of bolding in the Investigation pages where you talk to people. Should anything get bolded again? Some options:
#*Items
#*Actions
#*Choices
#*None, or some mix of the above
#The actual, in-game location names are really long. Should they be cut shorter? (i.e. Police Department Underground Parking Lot → Underground Parking Lot → Parking Lot) How strictly should we adhere to the in-game names?
#The cross-examination pictures don't really look good anywhere. Currently they have been incorporated into the cross-examination headings on [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney/Episode 1: The First Turnabout/Day 1 - Trial|this page]], but I'm leaning towards just getting rid of them, unless someone likes that style or has a better idea.

===Comments===
*As always, add your comments here if you want to have a say in how the guide is shaping up. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 21:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

==Guide cleanup (old) 2==
I haven't been getting any static about the changes so far, so I'll continue to be bold with my cleanup. Here is the current situation regarding styles and such used in the guide, as well as what I'm planning. Post some comments if you don't want to see these changes, or you have something else to offer.

===Current styles===
*Capitalized: items in the Court Record, Court Record, mode names, location names
*Bolded: talk options, camera movements, object rotations
*Bulleted: talk options, camera movements, object rotations, additional testimony sentences
*Indented: additional testimony sentences
*Quoted exactly from game: testimonies, testimony names, talk options, location names, item names
*Pictures: people and places on their own page, items throughout the walkthrough when added to Court Record
*Level three headings: cross-examinations, locations under Investigation mode

===Upcoming / needing discussion===
#Heading levels: As of now only cross-examinations and locations under the '''<nowiki>==level two==</nowiki>''' heading are getting '''<nowiki>===level three===</nowiki>''' headings. It looks especially awkward for the locations in the toc. I'd like to see everything get the same level two heading. This shouldn't be a problem for the cross-examinations, since they are in the form of "''Name of testimony:'' Cross-examination" so they will have unique names in the toc.
#Subpaging: The pages are extremely long in instances where both Courtroom mode and Investigation mode are used. I'd like to split the pages up between the two. This should also take care of the heading level issue for locations under Investigation mode, as they will all be top level headings since the page name will be Investigation. Proposed names are '''Day 1 Trial''' and '''Day 1 Investigation'''.
#Page name changes: You don't actually see a reference to which day of the turnabout it is unless you're loading a saved game, but even then an actual number is used rather than a spelled out word (i.e. Day 1 not Day one). So I'd like to change to this format to keep with the in-game name. This should be decided before the page splits so we don't do more than one page move.
#Should the pictures of the items on the walkthrough also include when they get updated in the Court Record? Right now they're only added when they first get received, except in one case where the item picture changed when it was updated. The pictures were put throughout the walkthrough instead of on their own page, for two reasons:
##There wouldn't be much context for them on a page before knowing what happens in the trial, and they may be a spoiler.
##It adds something to break up the text on the walkthrough pages.
#Lastly, there are the cross-examination pictures. I realize now that they're not of Phoenix and the person on the stand, which would have made sense being on each cross-examination section. It's actually Phoenix and the prosecution attorney, so the picture would be the same throughout the entire trial. So something needs to be done with them if we still want to use them.

===Comments===
*Made this new section to get some ideas about upcoming changes I'm planning and to get feedback on what I've done so far. Add some comments if you're interested. I think I'll be ready to nominate the guide sometime this week, if no big arguments come up. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 17:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

==Guide cleanup (old) 1==
Here are the major issues I've come across while going over the guide:
===Capitalization===
The capitalization style now goes off how it is represented in the game.

The following words have received capitalization:
*Court Record
*Investigation and Courtroom (but not mode)
*Items from the Court Record if explicitly named (i.e. Cindy's Autopsy Report, but not the autopsy report)

The following are words that I've uncapitalized:
*cross-examine, cross-examination
*court, courtroom
*judge
*actions (such as press and talk)
*really (from the "What REALLY happened" headings)

===Bolding===
I think the heavy use of bolding made the pages look messy, and also interfered with easily identifying level three and four headings, which are slightly enlarged bold text and bold text respectively. I unbolded all actions and items from the Court Record. I left bolded the choices from talking to people.

===Style===
Styles I've changed are:
*Using bulleted lists for the talk choices.
*Removing the mode heading (Investigation or Courtroom) if the whole page is in that mode.
*Avoiding duplicating the page name in the headings.
*Putting explicit choices in quotes (i.e. ''choose "Choice,"'' but not ''then Phoenix will ask about "Choice"'')
*Writing the "What really happened" section in past tense.
*Indenting and bulleting changes in witness testimony

Existing styles:
*Putting modes in level two headings if more than one are used on a page.
*Using the ''Person's Name: Name of Testimony'' for testimony headings and testimony templates.
*Using ''Name of Testimony: Cross-examination'' as a subheading under the testimony heading.
*Using times in the format of ''1:00 PM''.

===Pictures===
The amount of pictures is good, but they're all on the case information page. The guide needs some images on the other pages, especially in the Investigation mode parts. Hopefully there is a way to get some images of the items from the Court Record, which would really spruce the guide up.
:'''Update''': I've added pictures to [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney/Episode 1: The First Turnabout/Day one|the first episode page]]. What I did was to add images of the items from the Court Record floated right at the top of the section where they are first used. In addition, I also put a cross-examination graphic at the top of all the cross-examination sections, but this may be overkill.

===Comments===
That's where I'm at now, so please add an opinion on any of the above or anything new. We can of course change anything back the way it was if it's decided that way was better, and I'm willing to work to implement any new suggestions as well. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 16:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
*You think one of us should add an Evidence/Profile List page? I probably should have stated this a long time ago, but I think if we can be SURE this could get a featured nomination, maybe we add pics of evidence and use them for the page. - [[User:MarioFan1993]]</sup> 4:55pm PT, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
**Yeah, I absolutely think we need pics of the items in the Court Record (is that the evidence list?). The only problem with putting them on their own page is all the text, especially during Investigation mode, where there are no pictures. So we could either put them on their own page '''and''' on the walkthrough pages, or just on the walkthrough pages. Also, I was thinking we could do the same thing with the location pics; either take them off the case info page and put them into the walkthrough pages, or put them in both places. Do you have a way to get more pictures? - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 00:42, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
**I've updated the list above and have used [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney/Episode 1: The First Turnabout/Day one|this page]] to test out all the new styles. Take a look and let me know what you think. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 06:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

*It's looking really good. The images really help and the new formatting is really good. I should have some time this weekend to work through some pages. I think the cross-examination images are a bit unnecessary. It looks a little repetitive and in later (longer) cases it'll look excessive. Can we find a way around this, because I like the image and think it's a good addition. --[[User:Minx|Minx]] 11:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
**Glad to have your help on this! I totally agree that the cross-examination pic is way repetitive. Two ideas I have are to shrink it down and put it off to the side somewhere, like the lock image in the Psyche-lock template in later games, or to maybe just use it in the first cross examination. Regarding the unused dog image, since the walkthrough has you choose a different option, should it be omitted, put in the characters list or maybe put in the section with the other two images? - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 11:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
==GBA vs DS==
This is essentially just a GBA remake with one added case. AFAIK, there is no English option for the GBA version, but for sake of completeness, would/wouldn't you add the GBA note to the intro? --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 14:48, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:What's the name of the original? -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] 14:52, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Gyukaten Saiban. It's Japan only, but the first four cases on the DS port are taken right out of the GBA cart and localized. Same with GS2,3 (Phoenix Wright: Justice for All *2*, 3 hasn't been announced to be brought over stateside). 4 is the new one that is DS only. --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 17:12, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:::The front page of this guide states very clearly that this is a remake of Gyakuten Saiban which was not released outside Japan. I'm not sure exactly what you are asking for? Could you please clarify for me?--[[User:Minx|Minx]] 04:27, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
:::: Wasn't there before. --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 10:09, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::If you care to check the history of the page you will see that this info was added on Oct 16, the day the page was created. Thank you --[[User:Minx|Minx]] 04:59, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::So I noticed before your comment. Browser glitch, I guess. --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 16:31, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
:If the events, plot, story, etc (except for the last case) are the exact same, it would be best to somehow figure out how to share the guides.  I'll try to set something up. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] 10:04, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::I created a [[Gyakuten Saiban]] page that links to the guides from this game.  I don't know enough about these games to write up a proper summary. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] 10:11, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::: Eh, a redirect would work just as fine. Given that the DS version only has one case outside of the GBA version (and that's case 5) a small note about case 5 being DS exclusive would work. --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 10:09, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Well, as it's a different game, it gets its own page.  Right now it's sharing a Table of Contents and Walkthrough page with this guide. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|Talk]]) 10:19, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

== Unused images ==
Could somebody in the know please use these images, or mark them for deletion? --[[User:DrBob|DrBob]] ([[User_talk:DrBob|Talk]]) 04:56, 29 October 2006 (CST)

:: They will be used. I've still got 2 cases to write for the game and these characters are involved in those cases. All these images will be used. --[[User:Minx|Minx]] 05:55, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:::Is this the dog from the list of stuff Gumshoe gives you [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney/Episode 4: Turnabout Goodbyes/Day two#Criminal Affairs Department|to help you find Gourdy]] in Episode 4? - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 00:42, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
:::: Yeah, he is one of the options. Awesome work on this BTW :) --[[User:Minx|Minx]] 11:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Finally used that last image, now I believe all images are in use. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 17:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)