Editing Talk:Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney

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==Justice For All==
I am now trying to get [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice For All|Justice For All]] promoted. Would someone help with copy edit for me? - [[User:MarioFan1993|MarioFan1993]] 18:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
==Thank You==

Thank you so much for helping [[User:Minx|Minx]] and I getting [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney]] promoted. I am so proud that I am one step closer to my personal goal (to get the entire series promoted). I think I'll try to revamp the other three games soon.[[User:MarioFan1993|MarioFan1993]] 00:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:Well the nomination went very smoothly, so I would suggest adapting the styles from this guide to the other ones, to start with. Good luck! - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 04:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

==New guide cleanup==
Here is the latest, and hopefully final cleanup discussion. I have one page left to add images to, then I will be nominating the guide.

===Current style===
*Capitalized: items from the Court Record, Court Record, location names
*Bolded: talk options, camera movements, object rotations
*Bulleted: talk options, camera movements, object rotations, additional testimony sentences
*Indented: additional testimony sentences
*Quoted exactly from game: testimonies, testimony names, talk options, location names, item names
*Pictures: people and places on their own page, items throughout the walkthrough when added to Court Record
*Headings: All <nowiki>==level two==</nowiki>
*Page names: Day <''day number''> - <''mode''> (i.e. Day 1 - Trial)

===Remaining issues===
#Should item images be shown when updated as well as when they're first received? In the whole guide there are three items that got new images when they were updated, because the actual image had changed.
#Now that all the headings are at level two, bolding may not make the page look so cluttered, although there is still plenty of bolding in the Investigation pages where you talk to people. Should anything get bolded again? Some options:
#*Items
#*Actions
#*Choices
#*None, or some mix of the above
#The actual, in-game location names are really long. Should they be cut shorter? (i.e. Police Department Underground Parking Lot → Underground Parking Lot → Parking Lot) How strictly should we adhere to the in-game names?

===Comments===
*As always, add your comments here if you want to have a say in how the guide is shaping up. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T<</span>]]</sup> 21:40, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
**Added the images for the last page for ya 8D. - [[User:MarioFan1993]]<sup>[[User talk:MarioFan1993]]>T</sup> 10:14AM, 25 April 2009 (CDT)
**Thanks! I hope you don't mind me uploading the versions I've been using for the Court Record, so the borders all match. Also, [[:Image:PWAA scibook.png|this image]] isn't ever in the Court Record, so I took it off the last page. If we added all the pictures you see like that throughout the game, we'd have to add probably a hundred more! :P - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 04:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
*hello, najzere? I know that the rules say that bolds are talk options, and other stuff, but <OBJECTION!> below that it says that the following should be bolded:
**'''Items'''
**'''Actions'''
**'''Choices'''
**'''None, or a mix of the above'''
<TAKE THAT!>--[[Special:Contributions/24.139.6.214|24.139.6.214]] 18:51, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
:That's the list of possible bolding we were considering six months ago. We decided on "none", as no one wanted to add any bolding. Since that decision was made, the guide was thoroughly scrutinized by community members and subsequently promoted to [[StrategyWiki:Featured guides|featured status]]. This is a good indication that the guide already has a good style, so you'll have to provide some fairly compelling reasons why it should be changed now. — [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 19:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
::W-well, in Turnabout Big Top in Justice For All, Day 2-Investigation, Items, Actions, and Choices are bolded. <TAKE THAT!>--[[Special:Contributions/24.139.6.214|24.139.6.214]] 19:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
:::As I said [[#Thank You|above]], those guides should adapt this one's styles, as this is the one that has been through a peer review process. In any event, each guide is a separate entity with its own issues. If the editors of the other guides are okay with more bolding, then you'll have no problem over there. A lot of time and effort was spent in getting this guide up to the level of polish it now has, so once again I'd have to ask for some sort of ''reason'' why excessive bolding will help this guide. — [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 19:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
==Guide cleanup (old) 2==
I haven't been getting any static about the changes so far, so I'll continue to be bold with my cleanup. Here is the current situation regarding styles and such used in the guide, as well as what I'm planning. Post some comments if you don't want to see these changes, or you have something else to offer.

===Current styles===
*Capitalized: items in the Court Record, Court Record, mode names, location names
*Bolded: talk options, camera movements, object rotations
*Bulleted: talk options, camera movements, object rotations, additional testimony sentences
*Indented: additional testimony sentences
*Quoted exactly from game: testimonies, testimony names, talk options, location names, item names
*Pictures: people and places on their own page, items throughout the walkthrough when added to Court Record
*Level three headings: cross-examinations, locations under Investigation mode

===Upcoming / needing discussion===
#Heading levels: As of now only cross-examinations and locations under the '''<nowiki>==level two==</nowiki>''' heading are getting '''<nowiki>===level three===</nowiki>''' headings. It looks especially awkward for the locations in the toc. I'd like to see everything get the same level two heading. This shouldn't be a problem for the cross-examinations, since they are in the form of "''Name of testimony:'' Cross-examination" so they will have unique names in the toc.
#Subpaging: The pages are extremely long in instances where both Courtroom mode and Investigation mode are used. I'd like to split the pages up between the two. This should also take care of the heading level issue for locations under Investigation mode, as they will all be top level headings since the page name will be Investigation. Proposed names are '''Day 1 Trial''' and '''Day 1 Investigation'''.
#Page name changes: You don't actually see a reference to which day of the turnabout it is unless you're loading a saved game, but even then an actual number is used rather than a spelled out word (i.e. Day 1 not Day one). So I'd like to change to this format to keep with the in-game name. This should be decided before the page splits so we don't do more than one page move.
#Should the pictures of the items on the walkthrough also include when they get updated in the Court Record? Right now they're only added when they first get received, except in one case where the item picture changed when it was updated. The pictures were put throughout the walkthrough instead of on their own page, for two reasons:
##There wouldn't be much context for them on a page before knowing what happens in the trial, and they may be a spoiler.
##It adds something to break up the text on the walkthrough pages.
#Lastly, there are the cross-examination pictures. I realize now that they're not of Phoenix and the person on the stand, which would have made sense being on each cross-examination section. It's actually Phoenix and the prosecution attorney, so the picture would be the same throughout the entire trial. So something needs to be done with them if we still want to use them.

===Comments===
*Made this new section to get some ideas about upcoming changes I'm planning and to get feedback on what I've done so far. Add some comments if you're interested. I think I'll be ready to nominate the guide sometime this week, if no big arguments come up. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 17:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

==Guide cleanup (old) 1==
Here are the major issues I've come across while going over the guide:
===Capitalization===
The capitalization style now goes off how it is represented in the game.

The following words have received capitalization:
*Court Record
*Investigation and Courtroom (but not mode)
*Items from the Court Record if explicitly named (i.e. Cindy's Autopsy Report, but not the autopsy report)

The following are words that I've uncapitalized:
*cross-examine, cross-examination
*court, courtroom
*judge
*actions (such as press and talk)
*really (from the "What REALLY happened" headings)

===Bolding===
I think the heavy use of bolding made the pages look messy, and also interfered with easily identifying level three and four headings, which are slightly enlarged bold text and bold text respectively. I unbolded all actions and items from the Court Record. I left bolded the choices from talking to people.

===Style===
Styles I've changed are:
*Using bulleted lists for the talk choices.
*Removing the mode heading (Investigation or Courtroom) if the whole page is in that mode.
*Avoiding duplicating the page name in the headings.
*Putting explicit choices in quotes (i.e. ''choose "Choice,"'' but not ''then Phoenix will ask about "Choice"'')
*Writing the "What really happened" section in past tense.
*Indenting and bulleting changes in witness testimony

Existing styles:
*Putting modes in level two headings if more than one are used on a page.
*Using the ''Person's Name: Name of Testimony'' for testimony headings and testimony templates.
*Using ''Name of Testimony: Cross-examination'' as a subheading under the testimony heading.
*Using times in the format of ''1:00 PM''.

===Pictures===
The amount of pictures is good, but they're all on the case information page. The guide needs some images on the other pages, especially in the Investigation mode parts. Hopefully there is a way to get some images of the items from the Court Record, which would really spruce the guide up.
:'''Update''': I've added pictures to [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney/Episode 1: The First Turnabout/Day one|the first episode page]]. What I did was to add images of the items from the Court Record floated right at the top of the section where they are first used. In addition, I also put a cross-examination graphic at the top of all the cross-examination sections, but this may be overkill.

===Comments===
That's where I'm at now, so please add an opinion on any of the above or anything new. We can of course change anything back the way it was if it's decided that way was better, and I'm willing to work to implement any new suggestions as well. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 16:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
*You think one of us should add an Evidence/Profile List page? I probably should have stated this a long time ago, but I think if we can be SURE this could get a featured nomination, maybe we add pics of evidence and use them for the page. - [[User:MarioFan1993]]</sup> 4:55pm PT, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
**Yeah, I absolutely think we need pics of the items in the Court Record (is that the evidence list?). The only problem with putting them on their own page is all the text, especially during Investigation mode, where there are no pictures. So we could either put them on their own page '''and''' on the walkthrough pages, or just on the walkthrough pages. Also, I was thinking we could do the same thing with the location pics; either take them off the case info page and put them into the walkthrough pages, or put them in both places. Do you have a way to get more pictures? - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 00:42, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
**I've updated the list above and have used [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney/Episode 1: The First Turnabout/Day one|this page]] to test out all the new styles. Take a look and let me know what you think. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 06:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

*It's looking really good. The images really help and the new formatting is really good. I should have some time this weekend to work through some pages. I think the cross-examination images are a bit unnecessary. It looks a little repetitive and in later (longer) cases it'll look excessive. Can we find a way around this, because I like the image and think it's a good addition. --[[User:Minx|Minx]] 11:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

==GBA vs DS==
This is essentially just a GBA remake with one added case. AFAIK, there is no English option for the GBA version, but for sake of completeness, would/wouldn't you add the GBA note to the intro? --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 14:48, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:What's the name of the original? -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] 14:52, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Gyukaten Saiban. It's Japan only, but the first four cases on the DS port are taken right out of the GBA cart and localized. Same with GS2,3 (Phoenix Wright: Justice for All *2*, 3 hasn't been announced to be brought over stateside). 4 is the new one that is DS only. --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 17:12, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:::The front page of this guide states very clearly that this is a remake of Gyakuten Saiban which was not released outside Japan. I'm not sure exactly what you are asking for? Could you please clarify for me?--[[User:Minx|Minx]] 04:27, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
:::: Wasn't there before. --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 10:09, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::If you care to check the history of the page you will see that this info was added on Oct 16, the day the page was created. Thank you --[[User:Minx|Minx]] 04:59, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::So I noticed before your comment. Browser glitch, I guess. --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 16:31, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
:If the events, plot, story, etc (except for the last case) are the exact same, it would be best to somehow figure out how to share the guides.  I'll try to set something up. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] 10:04, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::I created a [[Gyakuten Saiban]] page that links to the guides from this game.  I don't know enough about these games to write up a proper summary. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] 10:11, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::: Eh, a redirect would work just as fine. Given that the DS version only has one case outside of the GBA version (and that's case 5) a small note about case 5 being DS exclusive would work. --[[User:Sekoku|Sekoku]] 10:09, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Well, as it's a different game, it gets its own page.  Right now it's sharing a Table of Contents and Walkthrough page with this guide. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|Talk]]) 10:19, 21 October 2006 (CDT)

== Unused images ==
Could somebody in the know please use these images, or mark them for deletion? --[[User:DrBob|DrBob]] ([[User_talk:DrBob|Talk]]) 04:56, 29 October 2006 (CST)

:: They will be used. I've still got 2 cases to write for the game and these characters are involved in those cases. All these images will be used. --[[User:Minx|Minx]] 05:55, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:::Is this the dog from the list of stuff Gumshoe gives you [[Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney/Episode 4: Turnabout Goodbyes/Day two#Criminal Affairs Department|to help you find Gourdy]] in Episode 4? - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 00:42, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
:::: Yeah, he is one of the options. Awesome work on this BTW :) --[[User:Minx|Minx]] 11:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Finally used that last image, now I believe all images are in use. - [[User:Najzere|<span style="color:#909090">najzere</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Najzere|<span style="color:#993300">T</span>]]</sup> 17:39, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

== Naming of Day 4 pages in Walkthrough, Case 5 ==
I noticed it went "Trial Former, Trial Latter, Trial Latter 2".  I think it would be better as "Trial Former, Trial Medial, Trial Latter".  Just a little suggestion. [[Special:Contributions/99.195.197.191|99.195.197.191]] 21:01, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

:I am not familiar with the game, but if you could provide an explanation of the separation between former, latter, and latter 2, it would help me to support the renaming. For example, if the game fades to black and it indicates a change of time, or an event, or if it actually labels it as "Trial Medial" or "Part 2", then it would make sense. As far as I can tell, our walkthrough is splitting up day 4 so that we don't have one giant page - is that correct. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 19:21, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

::Each day in the game is split into parts. The last day of case 5 has three parts and they have "Trial Former", "Trial Latter", "Trial Latter 2" in their names respectively.
::By the way, does this wiki prefer the actual names of game parts for page naming purposes, or does it not matter much? [[Special:Contributions/123.20.57.76|123.20.57.76]] 00:29, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

:::It is always best to use the actual names given in the game, as it makes it easier for readers that need help in a specific section search for what they want. Keep the name if that is the one used in-game, since players can just check their current chapter name and proceed to the page with the same name. [[User:T.testLP|T.testLP]]([[User talk:T.testLP|talk]]) 08:36, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

::::According to [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jcRbhywPYk this YouTube video], it is "Trial Latter 2" in game, so we will stick with that. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 18:42, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

== Getting Started pages ==

I have an idea: Since the Getting Started pages for each Ace Attorney main game are basically the same, it's redundant to rewrite what was already there, reword a bit and then add info about new features to make the pages different. Why don't we delete them and use the Getting Started page of this game for all of them, then put the info about new features for each game in their own "New features" pages?

Please note that I'm talking about the main series games, not the Investigation series. [[Special:Contributions/123.20.86.202|123.20.86.202]] 02:15, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

:It is much easier to just copy the layout from one to the next rather than use a shared table of contents. I don't know this series well, but most games have HUD differences, menu differences, and other nuances that Getting Started should cover. It would make for a long and convoluted page to have every game's content on one page. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 17:44, 9 January 2014 (UTC)