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Robot: Archiving 6 threads from StrategyWiki:Staff lounge.
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::::Oh yes definitely agree with that one there, saw it in harvest moon category it is looking good - [[User:RodKimble|RodKimble]] ([[User talk:RodKimble|talk]]) 06:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC) | ::::Oh yes definitely agree with that one there, saw it in harvest moon category it is looking good - [[User:RodKimble|RodKimble]] ([[User talk:RodKimble|talk]]) 06:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
== Action RPG sub-genre == | |||
Hello. I created the '''[[:Category:Action RPG]]''' page, as a sub-category of the [[:Category:RPG]] genre. Can I ask to check if it's worth keeping it and add games in this category, or if it would be better to delete it? --[[User:Abacos|Abacos]] ([[User talk:Abacos|talk]]) 14:46, 26 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
:My view is that the Action RPG category really is just an [[RPG]] game with [[Action]] elements, which is satisfied by keeping it in both [[Action]] and [[RPG]] categories. The only other merged category I can think of is [[Action-adventure]], which is wildly different from what we have as [[Adventure]] games (point-and-click). Maybe we need to start listing definitions of what each of these genres is so that it's clear for everyone. What would we consider the difference between an Action game and an Action-adventure game? -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|talk]]) 15:08, 26 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
Good: writing down definitions to solve conflicts is exactly my philosophy (but I'm afraid it can sometimes be boring to read). I'll write what I consider my understanding of the definitions ''(see also: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Famicom_and_Super_Nintendo_role-playing_games List of SNES RPGs])''. | |||
* I consider a '''Role-Playing (video) Game''' a video game that has the following three characteristics: | |||
*# Interaction with NPCs and online players, and subsequent development of plot; | |||
*# Freedom of exploration, and all dungeons accessed from an overworld (or they are interconnected); | |||
*# Permanent upgrades of the attributes of the playable characters (often depending on Experience points and levels, but not necessarily limited to this). | |||
* I consider an '''Action game''' a game that lacks at least two of the three above. | |||
* I consider '''Tactical games''' as a completely separate genre (i.e. not RPG), since their archetype is chess. | |||
* Some sub-genres of RPGs: | |||
** According to the combat system, I sub-divide RPGs in two large groups: '''Turn-based RPGs''' and '''Action RPGs'''. | |||
** Turn-based RPGs can be further sub-divided in '''Japanese/Consolle style''' (emphasis on #1: plot) and '''American/Computer style''' (emphasis on #2: exploration and #3: "body-building"). | |||
** I consider '''Roguelike RPGs''' those where dungeons are randomly generated (emphasis on #2: exploration), regardless of combat system. | |||
** In some RPGs, #3 applies not to the playable character, but to creatures that follow him (e.g. Pokemon). I minted the name ''"Breeding RPG"'' or ''"Herding RPG"'', but I never wrote it down before. | |||
All this is my personal understanding, and it is susceptible of discussion at leisure. If my understanding of a genre or sub-genre is in conflict with its common definition, I think this could be the time and place to talk about all genre definitions. --[[User:Abacos|Abacos]] ([[User talk:Abacos|talk]]) 16:03, 26 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
::Before expanding further, we typically adhere to Wikipedia definitions, albeit with our preference to list the elements of the game rather than a unified genre name. For example, {{c|Shooter}} vs. {{c|Tactical shooter}}. Wikipedia's action RPG definition is no better than us separating this category into the two elements, action and RPG. Most of the games discussed on the wikipedia page are hack and slash games, which we have a special category for because they are very defined. Games like the seikendensetsu (mana) series and tales series could be put into the unified "Action RPG" combined sub-genre. However, we come to a point where an important question arises: do we want our categories to be broad and inclusive, or exclusive and specific? We have typically kept them in larger, "parent" genres. Also, creating action RPG as a subgenre will create a few hundred edits to go through all of the games that have both action and RPG on their main pages. I don't really use our categories to search for games, so I can't decide what is most effective, or if it matters. The one benefit to sub-genres is that you actually get well-grouped titles so particular tastes in games can more easily be explored. Also, our DPL code inside the {{t|Genre}} template works best with smaller categories so you can compare similar titles' popularity. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 17:48, 26 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::Prod, I believe it is time to reconsider our alternate, minimalistic, element-based categorization style (Action + RPG does not = Action RPG, though note that some games will still be Action + RPG). I think that sub-genres are more effective at helping people find similar games, and more accurate in classifying games. We should start each definitions on the category pages with what Wikipedia has, and then we can deviate to simplify and improve upon them, since we usually just have simple blurbs and a link to the full Wikipedia article. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 18:23, 28 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::Yea, I'm thinking the same thing. The original hope was to have intersections of categories provide the listings, but I'm not that big a fan of installing the Semantic extension. I agree that we should go the route of categories and sub-categories. As for copying Wikipedia, I think we should map out what they have here first, and then discuss what we should do, since I'm not sure how well their top level categories were planned out. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|talk]]) 02:07, 31 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
===Current genre hierarchy=== | |||
* [[:Category:Action]] | |||
** [[:Category:Beat 'em up]] | |||
** [[:Category:Fighting]] | |||
** [[:Category:Platform]] | |||
** [[:Category:Run and gun]] | |||
* [[:Category:Action-adventure]] | |||
** [[:Category:Stealth]] | |||
** [[:Category:Survival horror]] | |||
* [[:Category:Adult]] | |||
* [[:Category:Adventure]] | |||
** [[:Category:Text adventure]] | |||
* [[:Category:Artillery]] | |||
* [[:Category:Board game]] | |||
* [[:Category:Card battling]] | |||
* [[:Category:Card game]] | |||
* [[:Category:Compilation]] | |||
* [[:Category:Education]] | |||
* [[:Category:Expansion pack]] | |||
* [[:Category:Hack and slash]] | |||
* [[:Category:Light gun]] | |||
* [[:Category:Minigame]] | |||
* [[:Category:Music]] | |||
* [[:Category:Party]] | |||
* [[:Category:Pinball]] | |||
* [[:Category:Puzzle]] | |||
* [[:Category:Quiz]] | |||
* [[:Category:Racing]] | |||
* [[:Category:Real-time tactics]] | |||
* [[:Category:RPG]] | |||
* [[:Category:Action RPG]] | |||
** [[:Category:Roguelike]] | |||
* [[:Category:Shooter]] | |||
** [[:Category:First-person shooter]] | |||
*** [[:Category:Tactical shooter]] | |||
** [[:Category:Tactical shooter]] | |||
** [[:Category:Third-person shooter]] | |||
*** [[:Category:Combat flight simulator]] | |||
*** [[:Category:Tactical shooter]] | |||
* [[:Category:Simulation]] | |||
** [[:Category:Dating sim]] | |||
** [[:Category:Flight simulation]] | |||
** [[:Category:Virtual pet]] | |||
* [[:Category:Sports]] | |||
** [[:Category:American football]] | |||
** [[:Category:Baseball]] | |||
** [[:Category:Basketball]] | |||
** [[:Category:Boating]] | |||
** [[:Category:Bowling]] | |||
** [[:Category:Boxing]] | |||
** [[:Category:Cycling]] | |||
** [[:Category:Fishing]] | |||
** [[:Category:Golf]] | |||
** [[:Category:Hockey]] | |||
** [[:Category:Skateboarding]] | |||
** [[:Category:Snowboarding]] | |||
** [[:Category:Soccer]] | |||
** [[:Category:Tennis]] | |||
** [[:Category:Volleyball]] | |||
** [[:Category:Wrestling]] | |||
* [[:Category:Strategy]] | |||
** [[:Category:RTS]] | |||
** [[:Category:Turn-based strategy]] | |||
Here's the current listing of categories that we need to clean up. Currently, they all show up in [[:Category:Genres]] as well as their own parent categories. I've made a few changes to go towards a more hierarchical structure, but I think there's more work to be done. The shooter section looks a bit weird with "Tactical shooter" showing up three times. Run and Gun also shows up twice. Ideally, I think these should only show up within one branch of the categories, in addition to the base Genres category. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|talk]]) 03:56, 15 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Map for an arcade game == | |||
I am planning to make a walkthrough for a platform adventure game. Such actions can't be described verbally ("go there to take the key, then jump all the way up to use it on the door and take the bomb, then go to the enemy on the left and kill it with the bomb...") I plan to use schematics and maps with legends. I have found the game's gamemaps from an abime site, which are extracted from the game files, and could serve as a schematic of eg. where each item can be found, and which route the player must follow. My concern is that these pictures have a "Lemon Amiga" watermark which means that they are not intended to be used anywhere else. What do you say? [[User:Keyan|Keyan]] ([[User talk:Keyan|talk]]) 07:53, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Watermarked images are not permitted. Removing the watermark without the author's consent is also not acceptable (on copyrighted material this action voids fair use). You will need to get permission to modify the image before uploading it here, unfortunately. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 16:37, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
::What I thought. However I guess it will be acceptable to use these rips as guides to make my own sketchy maps and upload them here. [[User:Keyan|Keyan]] ([[User talk:Keyan|talk]]) 17:23, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::The gray area is to do some sort of trace over the map to get the general layout duplicated. Note that if elements of the map are simply screenshots or sprites, you can take them out of it for your own use, since those are not owned by the compiler of the map, but the owner of the game who is obligated to let us use them for non-commercial free use (though we would comply with take-down requests). Can you link to the source images as an example? --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 17:35, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::Yeah, I'd also like to know which game we're talking about. It's often possible to find alternate sources of maps without watermarks. It's just a question of knowing what to search for. '''[[User:Procyon|<span style="color:red">Pro</span>]][[User talk:Procyon|<span style="color:grey">cyon</span>]]''' 23:40, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::[[User:Procyon|Procyon]]: based on Keyan's recent edits, I think Keyan is referring to [[Simon the Sorcerer]], [[Colonel's Bequest]], or [[The Journeyman Project: Pegasus Prime]] (or others in the series). --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 05:00, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::::Haha, nope, as I said in my first post, I was referring to arcade games. For example look at the [http://hol.abime.net/2322/gamemap gamemaps of the game Ork]. If one could mark it with items, hotspots, and draw a route to follow, it would make an ideal walkthrough. However there is the watermark. [[User:Keyan|Keyan]] ([[User talk:Keyan|talk]]) 07:46, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::Umm, that's not an arcade game, that's an Amiga (and Atari ST) game... Did I miss something? o_O; Anyway, that's awful, I hate when sites do that just to piss all over the image. There are definitely ways to get around this. I don't want to make a habit of this, but I will help you with this one. Give me some time. '''[[User:Procyon|<span style="color:red">Pro</span>]][[User talk:Procyon|<span style="color:grey">cyon</span>]]''' 13:36, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::::I created [[Ork]] to get you started. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 17:30, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
::::::@Procyon: Sorry, sometimes I say "arcade" to refer to the genre, interchangeably with "platformer". Of course, the game did not originate in the Arcades. I'll be looking forward for your help. Notify me in my talk page when you are ready. [[User:Keyan|Keyan]] ([[User talk:Keyan|talk]]) 06:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Re: arcade: got it, I understand now. I already did post on your talk page. Did you not receive the notification? The first three maps are done, still need to find time to finish the last two, possibly tomorrow night. '''[[User:Procyon|<span style="color:red">Pro</span>]][[User talk:Procyon|<span style="color:grey">cyon</span>]]''' 21:54, 14 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Cross-Origin Resource Sharing == | |||
'''NOTE:''' This is a question regarding SW server operation, not about any particular game. | |||
Recently, my browser has stopped showing SW in the fonts you normally specify. An inspection of the Web Console reveals that the resources are being rejected by the browser because they are ''cross-origin''. Because of the security issue, it will only allow the resource if they come from the same domain or if the resource is allowed under '''Cross-Origin Resource Sharing (CORS)''', which is a ''server-side'' implementation. | |||
Has something happened recently at SW to start tripping these errors and is anything needed to correct this?—[[User:WhosAsking|WhosAsking]] ([[User talk:WhosAsking|talk]]) 17:45, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Are you seeing the same thing as [http://strategywiki.org/wiki/StrategyWiki:Staff_lounge/2014/March#Android_browser_oddity this bug previously discussed]? By "my browser" what browser/version are you talking about? It is likely a server side issue if you are seeing a cross-origin warning, which is interestingly more technically specific than any hints we have uncovered so far. That may prompt [[User:Prod|Prod]] to look into it further. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 18:08, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
::No. I'm using the latest Firefox on Windows 7. I see text just fine. However, most of the text is not in the font you designate. This is particularly the case for the symbols you use, which appear to rely on a custom font. Since it is not being loaded, I'm seeing Unicode placeholder characters (hollow box with numbers like F002, F067, F068, etc.) in place of a magnifying glass and your bullet points.—[[User:WhosAsking|WhosAsking]] ([[User talk:WhosAsking|talk]]) 18:50, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::This is strictly an issue with Firefox that we've already identified. Firefox has tighter security when it comes to this matter than, say, Chrome. As of the time I am writing this, I notice that the problem has been resolved in my Firefox browser. Please let us know if it continues to be a problem in yours. Thanks. '''[[User:Procyon|<span style="color:red">Pro</span>]][[User talk:Procyon|<span style="color:grey">cyon</span>]]''' 23:40, 12 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:You're exactly right, it was a CORS config change that was missed. We had to change the paths where the skins are stored due to a new way of mediawiki loading skins. We missed updating the CORS headers for the new path and only fixed it afterwards. The issue should be resolved now, it's just very hard to clear Firefox's cache for this issue. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|talk]]) 04:30, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Puzzle guide section (Tetris Attack) == | |||
Alright, so I'm going to at least work on the puzzle mode of [[Tetris Attack]], as it very likely would be the most frequently searched for part of the game. Info so you don't need to play it - basically you're given a set of blocks and a certain number of moves to get rid of all of them. There are 120 of these in the game, with 60 initial puzzles and 60 unlocked with a code given once you've solved the original 60. | |||
Now, potentially what I would do is show a screenshot of the puzzle, give a hint (possibly hidden), and give the solution under a hide tag. Personally if solving the puzzles, I would love to be able to see simply hints to just help me arrive at the solution myself, rather than just being given the solution. Is this okay, or are we simply interested in giving the solution? (I haven't been able to find other similar examples that I am familiar with that are on this site in a significant way) Also, am I allowed to give screenshots for all 120 puzzles? I was reading the copyright guide page about how guides aren't substitutes for games, but in this case, the unsolved screenshot is technically all you need to have and solve the puzzle (although there are some timing things that would be tough to remember and catch onto without the game). It's obviously more entertaining and easier to visualize when things actually happen when you make a move, and there is much more to the game than the puzzle mode, but I thought I'd double check. | |||
If you want, I can post some puzzles/hints/solutions in the guide so you have a better idea if my explaining doesn't work. -- [[User:Ceegers|Ceegers]] ([[User talk:Ceegers|talk]]) 02:57, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:Short answer: There's nothing that you're suggesting that wouldn't be welcome here, so go for it. | |||
:Long answer: There's an old saying that I've always been fond of: Fish for a man, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime. I've always tried to construct my guides around that principal. I'd rather teach the reader how the game works, then flat out tell them what to do, even though it's hard to avoid sometimes. I believe most readers want to understand how a game works rather than be told what buttons to press and when. And there's no limit to how many screenshots you can upload. As long as they're useful and help you illustrate the problem, load 'em up. Let us know if there's anything we can do to help. '''[[User:Procyon|<span style="color:red">Pro</span>]][[User talk:Procyon|<span style="color:grey">cyon</span>]]''' 03:48, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
::You can probably use {{t|Spoiler}} to hide the solution unless the user wants to see it. By having the solution to the level, you do take away from the game a bit. But, that's true of any solution, in text, video, or screenshot. You should be fine to go ahead with it, we'll just have to take it down if anyone complains. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|talk]]) 04:34, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
:::[[User:Ceegers|Ceegers]]: start the section with the guide, then put a sub-header for the "quick solution" or something similar. Using {{t|spoiler}}, then, is not necessary. So, you have some choices and it will come down to your preference. Do your best! --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 05:03, 13 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
== MobileFrontend == | |||
When MobileFrontend was [[StrategyWiki:Staff lounge/2014/March#MobileFrontend|initially enabled]], there were a number of issues that we were working through. The latest version has now been deployed, so please test it out again and let me know if you notice any issues. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|talk]]) 03:25, 15 June 2014 (UTC) | |||
== Customized sidebar == | |||
I don't remember who had asked about this before, so hopefully they see it here. The contents of the sidebar for pages without an autotoc can be customized through [[MediaWiki:Autotoc-default]]. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|talk]]) 03:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC) | |||