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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current staff lounge page.

February 2010 | March 2010 | April 2010

Digital distributors

There is some discrepancy on guide pages about where digital distribution services go in the infobox. I'm of the opinion that the systems field is for the hardware on which you play the game, while the service where you download the game should go in the distributor field. For games that are not available through retail channels, I likewise don't understand why the actual system would be excluded entirely from the infobox. For instance, a game which is available for download on Xbox Live Arcade or PlayStation Network still requires the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 to play the game. From a category standpoint, I'd expect to find all games I can play on my system in my system's category, regardless of how I obtain them.

The way we sometimes treat the online service as entirely separate from its console also affects achievement/trophy categories. We currently have separate categories for PS3 vs. PSN trophies, for instance. The trophies, whether you got them from a game on PSN or not, are shown on the console and on the PSN profile, with no distinction between them (Sony treats all trophies the same). I'm not sure if Xbox 360 is the same. Anyway, for achievements/trophies I can see how someone might want to see just games they can get off PSN/XBLA, but I don't know if it makes sense to have them missing from the PS3/360 categories. Anyway, here are my proposals:

  1. Put digital distribution services (Steam, D2D, GameTap, all the console ones) in the distributor field and put the actual system in the systems field.
  2. Categorize the page by both the distributor and the system.
  3. Combine XBLA/PSN achievement/trophy categories into one, or at least categorize the XBLA/PSN categories with the system category as well.

najzereT 00:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

I am reviving this previously archived topic because it is something that needs to be addressed. Originally we only had Steam to worry about but digital distribution has since grown to be a major feature of all platforms. What you propose is a very logical approach to this issue. I would like to see some further input on this issue. --Garrett (talk) 08:09, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
It should also be noted that it's not reliable to think of PSN - PS3 as equivalent, or even XBLA - 360. Especially with the new PSPGo hardware, the number of PSN games for the PSP is very high. Live also encompasses the Games for Windows - Live initiative and Live Anywhere/Zune Social. Of course, I would like to be able to exclude games from showing up when I'm looking for PS3 or PSP games if they are only available via digital distribution, but that's a matter of preference and is probably limited by the capabilities of the search on the site. --~Vizeroth · (c)~-- 21:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I agree with point 1 and 2 raised by najzere, but will abstain from 3 since I do not have enough experience with it to form an educated opinion. --Skizzerz 22:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

From User talk:Najzere#Steam

I don't know about d2d, but with Steam, it becomes a part of the OS that is required for the app to run, effectively making it the "system". Especially if it isn't available standalone. Is Steam available on Mac, or other systems? -- Prod (Talk) 01:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Good question, I've never used it and don't own a Mac. If you need Steam components to play the game, then it sounds more like Adobe Flash or Web browser that we put in the systems field. Garrett probably knows more about it, but he didn't go into any detail on the SL topic. For redundancy's sake, so we don't have Steam in both distributor or system field, I think its role as a distributor is more important. Looking at the infobox, I would see Windows and Steam in the systems field as either/or, whereas Steam as the distributor and Windows as the system makes more sense to me. The same goes for Flash and Browser though too, so maybe we need to think about putting these sort of programs in the media or requirements fields. — najzereT 01:56, 23 February 2010 (UTC)"
I don't know of any games that NEED steam installed and based on that I think it should stay in the "Distributor(s)" section, but if it ever is needed for a game then I agree with Najzere that it should be put into the "System requirements" section, for the same reason CPU is in there, if you don't have it you can't run it. - Trevman 16:43, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
It's needed for some versions of Half-Life (pre-Steam versions run without it), some versions of Psychonauts (Steam version will report "Failed to find Steam"), while other games are happy to run even if Steam isn't running. Of some games that require Steam, you can use the "End Process" on steam.exe without crashing those games. Even if steam is required for those games, listing it is almost the same as listing SafeDisc, SecuROM, Starforce or other copy-protection systems used on the Windows platform. Steam also only exists on Windows, unlike Flash which attempts to be cross-platform. --Sigma 7 20:48, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
That's exactly why I asked :). Steam as a distributor sounds like a good idea to me. What about D2D? My assumption is that it would fall under the same categorization. -- Prod (Talk) 20:52, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Steam, Direct2Drive and the rest are identical as far as we're concerned. --Garrett (talk) 01:35, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Since everyone seems to be in favour of najzere's proposal I will work on implementing this in the near future (probably this coming week). If anyone has any clarifications or exclusions to this distributor handling, now would be the time to mention them. --Garrett (talk) 01:22, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

This should be brought up in the next community meeting as this is such a major change. -- Prod (Talk) 02:54, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
Ah, yeah, that makes sense. --Garrett (talk) 00:22, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorting titles starting with ALLCAPS

I just added a DEFAULTSORT to SEGA AGES 2500 Vol. 29: Monster World Complete Collection of the mixed-case "Sega Ages" etc., so that rather than appearing at the top of the letter S it would appear next to Sega Classics Collection in Category:PlayStation_2 for example. What about other games that start with ALLCAPS like NBA, SNK, SSX, FIFA - to me it looks odd that they appear alphabetically in categories earlier than they should. Before I go adding DEFAULTSORTs like Nba, Snk, Ssx, Fifa, what do others think? --Pelago 22:40, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Sure, that's what default sorting is for. :) It would be nice if we could change how categories naturally sort to ignore case though. — najzereT 18:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
That would be even better, if possible. --Pelago 22:24, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Meeting

The meeting is starting now. Please join the Chat. -- Prod (Talk) 18:01, 27 March 2010 (UTC)