StrategyWiki talk:Community Portal/2007/June: Difference between revisions

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:* Can you elaborate on what you think needs to be changed? -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|Talk]]) 10:04, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
:* Can you elaborate on what you think needs to be changed? -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|Talk]]) 10:04, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
:* Specifically, it was what I was talking about earlier.  What if the link that I want to go to isn't ''in'' the CN?  Which is why we started discussing if the TOC should be linked to the CN in the first place.  This conversation is what's known as an overweight balancing act.  If a problem has too much weight on one side and not enough on the other, people tend to gravitate to the solution where you add more weight to the other side to balance the problem out (which usually makes things more complex), instead of removing the original weight and redesigning the solution (which usually makes things more simple).  If you're going to go through the trouble of linking the TOC from the CN, why not just replace the CN with the TOC to begin with, and go with the Footer Nav that I proposed above.<br><br>I just want to make it clear that I'm not adamant about any of this, nor do I wish to force my views about this on to anyone.  I hope that I'm not giving anyone the impression that I'm pounding my fist on the table as I write this.  I'm just using this opportunity to give my honest opinion about the problem.  I will truly be happy with whatever the consensus is. ^_^ [[User:Procyon|Procyon]] ([[User talk:Procyon|Talk]]) 10:51, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
:* Specifically, it was what I was talking about earlier.  What if the link that I want to go to isn't ''in'' the CN?  Which is why we started discussing if the TOC should be linked to the CN in the first place.  This conversation is what's known as an overweight balancing act.  If a problem has too much weight on one side and not enough on the other, people tend to gravitate to the solution where you add more weight to the other side to balance the problem out (which usually makes things more complex), instead of removing the original weight and redesigning the solution (which usually makes things more simple).  If you're going to go through the trouble of linking the TOC from the CN, why not just replace the CN with the TOC to begin with, and go with the Footer Nav that I proposed above.<br><br>I just want to make it clear that I'm not adamant about any of this, nor do I wish to force my views about this on to anyone.  I hope that I'm not giving anyone the impression that I'm pounding my fist on the table as I write this.  I'm just using this opportunity to give my honest opinion about the problem.  I will truly be happy with whatever the consensus is. ^_^ [[User:Procyon|Procyon]] ([[User talk:Procyon|Talk]]) 10:51, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
::*The problem is, some games have fairly formidable ToCs (e.g. [[Gothic/Table of Contents|this]] or even [[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas/Table of Contents|this]]). While the latter could be compacted using divs the vast scope of the game means it's going to take up most or all of the average screen resolution no matter what. When presented with a ToC this large many people might not go below it to the story and whatever other sections got shoved down there. Additionally, many guides don't have a long enough intro to extend beyond the infobox, meaning the ToC has to either float messily around it or else be forced below it with {{tl|-}}, which results in a big gap of whitespace. And not every game has a deep enough story or enough gameplay tips to split these lower sections onto separate pages. For games with as few pages as [[Pac-Man]] I can see it being higher up, but for the more complex ones it might just be in the way there. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]]<sup>[[User talk:Garrett|Talk]]</sup> 17:08, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
::*The problem is, some games have fairly formidable ToCs (e.g. [[Gothic/Table of Contents|this]] or even [[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas/Table of Contents|this]]). While the latter could be compacted using divs the vast scope of the game means it's going to take up most or all of the average screen resolution no matter what. When presented with a ToC this large many people might not go below it to the story and whatever other sections got shoved down there. Additionally, many guides don't have a long enough intro to extend beyond the infobox, meaning the ToC has to either float messily around it or else be forced below it with {{t|-}}, which results in a big gap of whitespace. And not every game has a deep enough story or enough gameplay tips to split these lower sections onto separate pages. For games with as few pages as [[Pac-Man]] I can see it being higher up, but for the more complex ones it might just be in the way there. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]]<sup>[[User talk:Garrett|Talk]]</sup> 17:08, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
:::*Ironically, Prod and I were discussing that very same thing today, and we started to wonder if it might not be a bad idea to have two different rules for small TOCs and large TOCs.  Might be worth looking into.  For the record I considered having TOCs with 1 or 2 columns remain high, and TOCs with 3 or 4 columns put lower down.  Just thought it was interesting that we all had a similar thought.  [[User:Procyon|Procyon]] ([[User talk:Procyon|Talk]]) 17:25, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
:::*Ironically, Prod and I were discussing that very same thing today, and we started to wonder if it might not be a bad idea to have two different rules for small TOCs and large TOCs.  Might be worth looking into.  For the record I considered having TOCs with 1 or 2 columns remain high, and TOCs with 3 or 4 columns put lower down.  Just thought it was interesting that we all had a similar thought.  [[User:Procyon|Procyon]] ([[User talk:Procyon|Talk]]) 17:25, 25 May 2007 (CDT)
Implemented into the {{t|Continue Nav}}.  Comments on format? -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|Talk]]) 19:43, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
Implemented into the {{t|Continue Nav}}.  Comments on format? -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|Talk]]) 19:43, 7 June 2007 (CDT)
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Check out [[Final Fantasy Chronicles]].  Note how for a compilation when you use the AGN it adds a category at the bottom called [[:Category:Guides at completion stage]] without a number.  Also note that because it is a compilation page, there will never be a walkthrough or ToC, so we'll have permanent red link.  Can we create a function in the nav that when switched on it labels the page as [[:Category:Compilations]], drops the guides at completion stage, and gets rid of the ToC/Walkthrough links (it'll also need to get rid of the show/hide feature or maybe place the games in the compilation as links after that jump)?  Or am I making this too difficult (I'm sure there's an easy solution somewhere).--'''[[User:Dukeruckley|<font color="blue">Duke</font>]][[User_talk:Dukeruckley|<font color="red">Ruckley</font>]]''' 14:56, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
Check out [[Final Fantasy Chronicles]].  Note how for a compilation when you use the AGN it adds a category at the bottom called [[:Category:Guides at completion stage]] without a number.  Also note that because it is a compilation page, there will never be a walkthrough or ToC, so we'll have permanent red link.  Can we create a function in the nav that when switched on it labels the page as [[:Category:Compilations]], drops the guides at completion stage, and gets rid of the ToC/Walkthrough links (it'll also need to get rid of the show/hide feature or maybe place the games in the compilation as links after that jump)?  Or am I making this too difficult (I'm sure there's an easy solution somewhere).--'''[[User:Dukeruckley|<font color="blue">Duke</font>]][[User_talk:Dukeruckley|<font color="red">Ruckley</font>]]''' 14:56, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
:''Edit'':  Actually, it happens any time the onepage is switched on.--'''[[User:Dukeruckley|<font color="blue">Duke</font>]][[User_talk:Dukeruckley|<font color="red">Ruckley</font>]]''' 14:59, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
:''Edit'':  Actually, it happens any time the onepage is switched on.--'''[[User:Dukeruckley|<font color="blue">Duke</font>]][[User_talk:Dukeruckley|<font color="red">Ruckley</font>]]''' 14:59, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
:This only affects {{tl|All Game Nav}}, {{tl|Header Nav}} doesn't have this problem. I'm not sure what it is (perhaps AGN is using old/broken ParserFunctions?) but since we're moving to the new one it shouldn't be around for much longer. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]]<sup>[[User talk:Garrett|Talk]]</sup> 00:48, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
:This only affects {{t|All Game Nav}}, {{t|Header Nav}} doesn't have this problem. I'm not sure what it is (perhaps AGN is using old/broken ParserFunctions?) but since we're moving to the new one it shouldn't be around for much longer. [[User:Garrett|Garrett]]<sup>[[User talk:Garrett|Talk]]</sup> 00:48, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
Sorry about that.  I had set up AGN as a virtual "redirect" (move AGN to HN, then had AGN pass on the parameters).  I had missed passing on the parent and onepage parameters. It's fixed now. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|Talk]]) 09:28, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
Sorry about that.  I had set up AGN as a virtual "redirect" (move AGN to HN, then had AGN pass on the parameters).  I had missed passing on the parent and onepage parameters. It's fixed now. -- [[User:Prod|Prod]] ([[User talk:Prod|Talk]]) 09:28, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
::That would explain why I never noticed it before now...  Thanks guys.--'''[[User:Dukeruckley|<font color="blue">Duke</font>]][[User_talk:Dukeruckley|<font color="red">Ruckley</font>]]''' 12:58, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
::That would explain why I never noticed it before now...  Thanks guys.--'''[[User:Dukeruckley|<font color="blue">Duke</font>]][[User_talk:Dukeruckley|<font color="red">Ruckley</font>]]''' 12:58, 4 June 2007 (CDT)
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Should the star be intrinsically linked with stage 5 status, and always be displayed on guides at stage 5, or should it only be displayed on the guide most-recently promoted to stage 5? I'm going with the former, because the latter doesn't really make sense IMHO; the star is there to promote that the guide is of exceptional quality, and this should always be happening for all stage 5 guides. --[[User:DrBob|DrBob]] ([[User_talk:DrBob|Talk]]) 12:16, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
Should the star be intrinsically linked with stage 5 status, and always be displayed on guides at stage 5, or should it only be displayed on the guide most-recently promoted to stage 5? I'm going with the former, because the latter doesn't really make sense IMHO; the star is there to promote that the guide is of exceptional quality, and this should always be happening for all stage 5 guides. --[[User:DrBob|DrBob]] ([[User_talk:DrBob|Talk]]) 12:16, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
:Yeah that second idea is just strange.  Make them all have a star. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 14:23, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
:Yeah that second idea is just strange.  Make them all have a star. --{{User:Notmyhandle/Sig}} 14:23, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
::I say no because the {{tl|Header Nav}} is already confusing and long enough as-is. Since we're not going to make a featured guide every day, it isn't that difficult to just manually add in the template. Also, you should be adding the featured template not to the game's main page (which is what would happen if it was tied into the HN with num=5), but to the table of contents so that it gets transcluded in every page on the guide. As for how long we keep the star there, I've changed my mind because the star looks really cool, so we'll keep it up there forever. --{{User:Ryan Schmidt/sig}} 11:34, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
::I say no because the {{t|Header Nav}} is already confusing and long enough as-is. Since we're not going to make a featured guide every day, it isn't that difficult to just manually add in the template. Also, you should be adding the featured template not to the game's main page (which is what would happen if it was tied into the HN with num=5), but to the table of contents so that it gets transcluded in every page on the guide. As for how long we keep the star there, I've changed my mind because the star looks really cool, so we'll keep it up there forever. --{{User:Ryan Schmidt/sig}} 11:34, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
:::The simplest idea would be to just change the num parameter to five (which would display a star in place of the usual box) ''AND'' to add the featured template...--'''[[User:Dukeruckley|<font color="blue">Duke</font>]][[User_talk:Dukeruckley|<font color="red">Ruckley</font>]]''' 12:50, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
:::The simplest idea would be to just change the num parameter to five (which would display a star in place of the usual box) ''AND'' to add the featured template...--'''[[User:Dukeruckley|<font color="blue">Duke</font>]][[User_talk:Dukeruckley|<font color="red">Ruckley</font>]]''' 12:50, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
::::Which is what I just suggested, except that {{tl|featured}} be added to the Table of Contents instead of the Main Page so that EVERY page in the guide has the star in the upper-right corner. --{{User:Ryan Schmidt/sig}} 13:23, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
::::Which is what I just suggested, except that {{t|featured}} be added to the Table of Contents instead of the Main Page so that EVERY page in the guide has the star in the upper-right corner. --{{User:Ryan Schmidt/sig}} 13:23, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
:::OK. I agree with you now Ryan, due to your suggestion that every page in the guide should display the star, which makes sense. The rest of your comment is complete tripe, though. :-P Saying that a template is "already confusing and long enough" is sort of ignoring the point of using a template; to abstract away confusing code. It's not like people are editing HN every day, so what's the problem with a little more complexity? HN as it stands isn't half as complex as the infobox, and I don't see you complaining about that. ;-) So yes, I'm now for keeping {{t|featured}} unlinked from HN, and putting it in the ToC, but not for the reasons you've specified. :-D --[[User:DrBob|DrBob]] ([[User_talk:DrBob|Talk]]) 14:22, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
:::OK. I agree with you now Ryan, due to your suggestion that every page in the guide should display the star, which makes sense. The rest of your comment is complete tripe, though. :-P Saying that a template is "already confusing and long enough" is sort of ignoring the point of using a template; to abstract away confusing code. It's not like people are editing HN every day, so what's the problem with a little more complexity? HN as it stands isn't half as complex as the infobox, and I don't see you complaining about that. ;-) So yes, I'm now for keeping {{t|featured}} unlinked from HN, and putting it in the ToC, but not for the reasons you've specified. :-D --[[User:DrBob|DrBob]] ([[User_talk:DrBob|Talk]]) 14:22, 13 August 2007 (CDT)
:::: Since the guide's been promoted, I've added {{t|featured}} to the top of the infobox, but it doesn't show up on pages except the main page unless you expand the ToC (due to the ToC section's contents being display:none). I think we can live with that; the only solution otherwise is to use JavaScript to move the star out of the ToC and into the title bar, or to manually put it on each page, neither of which is particularly elegant. --[[User:DrBob|DrBob]] ([[User_talk:DrBob|Talk]]) 05:46, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
:::: Since the guide's been promoted, I've added {{t|featured}} to the top of the infobox, but it doesn't show up on pages except the main page unless you expand the ToC (due to the ToC section's contents being display:none). I think we can live with that; the only solution otherwise is to use JavaScript to move the star out of the ToC and into the title bar, or to manually put it on each page, neither of which is particularly elegant. --[[User:DrBob|DrBob]] ([[User_talk:DrBob|Talk]]) 05:46, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
::::: I've fixed that by adding a simple clause to the {{tl|Header Nav}}. Instead of putting {{tl|featured}} in the ToC, put it in game/Table of Contents/Featured instead, as this will include it on every page in the guide without having to expand the show/hide thingy. --{{User:Ryan Schmidt/sig}} 12:47, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
::::: I've fixed that by adding a simple clause to the {{t|Header Nav}}. Instead of putting {{t|featured}} in the ToC, put it in game/Table of Contents/Featured instead, as this will include it on every page in the guide without having to expand the show/hide thingy. --{{User:Ryan Schmidt/sig}} 12:47, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
:::::: Only now it doesn't show on the front page :/ [[User:Procyon|Procyon]] ([[User talk:Procyon|Talk]]) 12:52, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
:::::: Only now it doesn't show on the front page :/ [[User:Procyon|Procyon]] ([[User talk:Procyon|Talk]]) 12:52, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
::::::: Wait for the [[Special:Statistics|job queue]] to die down, it might not have been changed yet. --{{User:Ryan Schmidt/sig}} 13:02, 15 August 2007 (CDT)
::::::: Wait for the [[Special:Statistics|job queue]] to die down, it might not have been changed yet. --{{User:Ryan Schmidt/sig}} 13:02, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

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